News AMD Casts Shade on its RX 7000-Series Value Proposition

[Admin]

AMD uses a series of charts to illustrate that the Radeon RX 7000-series doesn’t deliver much more performance for the extra cash versus its existing RX 6000-series graphics cards.

AMD Casts Shade on its RX 7000-Series Value Proposition : Read more

 

[TechieTwo]

Why would a company sell less expensive products when they can sell as many top of the line products as they can deliver? Nvidia, Intel, DRAM makers, etc. all do this. Once the demand drops for the top tier products then the lower priced models appear. This is Biz 101.

 

[JarredWaltonGPU]

Once the demand drops...

This is why they make other GPUs besides the fastest possible option. And in fact, there are plenty of indications that demand for $1,000+ cards (especially from AMD) isn't really all that strong. 7900 XT is already below MSRP at Newegg, only the 7900 XTX is out of stock / overpriced. Same applies to Nvidia. RTX 4090 is out of stock / overpriced, likely due to professionals more than gamers, while the 4080 and 4070 Ti are generally available at close to MSRP.

 

[Giroro]

It looks like AMD wants to imply they have a full product stack, but these slides just demonstrate that they are either completely unwilling or unable to finish launching Navi 3.

 

[daworstplaya]

Keep voting with your wallet folks, they'll be forced to drop prices for the overprice mid and upper-mid tier GPUs.

 

[DavidLejdar]

I can't complain about the RX 6700 XT OC I have here, but the listed "average" for 1440p is somewhat misleading for a number of games when not using upscaling and when having graphics at max. I.e. in Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition, with raytracing at high and graphics at max, I get around 50 FPS - which is fine enough to play the game with, which arguably is a top-range example, but hardly anywhere near what the listed "average" would suggest.

Of course, it isn't just AMD who are presenting stuff like that. E.g. for the PS5, one has to go into the fine-print to find out that only a handful of games support native 4K (and then only at 60 FPS, unlike the stated output of up to 120 FPS), while many other games get upscaled from 1080p. And one can of course argue that even upscaled FPS still count as FPS.

But in this particular case, if AMD would not try to sell me (upscaled) 220 FPS in 4K for a 2D chessboard, but would instead show if e.g. RX 7900 XTX (with optimized driver) can run e.g. Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition at max with i.e. 80 FPS in 4K, then that would rather speak to me. Which isn't to say that I would not care about independent reviews anymore. But as far I am concerned, I rather play a graphically nice game at 80 FPS than a graphically somewhat simple game at 220 FPS, where the 4K resolution is additionally a bit of a moot point.

 

[MooseMuffin]

Its a bad marketing slide, but the value getting worse as you move up the lineup has generally been the case right? Decent price/performance in the low/midrange, and then a premium to get the fastest products.

As for them presenting a 2023 lineup that includes all the 6000 series cards still, that's interesting in what it says about their plans for the rest of the 7000 lineup, but also what they expect from nvidia. Seems like they don't expect the price/performance landscape to change soon.

 

[artk2219]

Its a bad marketing slide, but the value getting worse as you move up the lineup has generally been the case right? Decent price/performance in the low/midrange, and then a premium to get the fastest products.

As for them presenting a 2023 lineup that includes all the 6000 series cards still, that's interesting in what it says about their plans for the rest of the 7000 lineup, but also what they expect from nvidia. Seems like they don't expect the price/performance landscape to change soon.

They both have a TON of unsold previous gen stuff, so they're definitely not looking to roll out new hardware if they have stock that would work just fine for now, and they can slow roll setting up a new production line. I can't say its awesome from the consumer side, but from the business side, yeah it makes sense to clear inventory and actually get decent production rates up on the newer replacements. Also, can we really say that the previous gen stuff has all of a sudden become worthless? Its not like an RX 6600 or 6700XT immediately became a bad card when the RX 7000 series was released. Heck if you get down to it an RX 580 8gb is still a better deal than anything else in its $150 bracket, and that cards 7 years old. It out paces the GTX 1050(ti), 1630, 1650, Arc A380, and RX 6400 or 6500XT handily while also having more memory. Polaris was a good move, honestly maybe too good of one. It also shows the stagnation at that sub 200 price point.

 

[Heat_Fan89]

This is why they make other GPUs besides the fastest possible option. And in fact, there are plenty of indications that demand for $1,000+ cards (especially from AMD) isn't really all that strong. 7900 XT is already below MSRP at Newegg, only the 7900 XTX is out of stock / overpriced. Same applies to Nvidia. RTX 4090 is out of stock / overpriced, likely due to professionals more than gamers, while the 4080 and 4070 Ti are generally available at close to MSRP.

You bring up a good point. The same is happening with cars. New cars today are way overpriced and the car dealers are just piling on. Most dealers in my area are adding at minimum $2,500 to the price. I'm in the market for a new car and when I mention the piling on of the dealer add-ons, they say they can't change that. So I leave.

The same is happening in the GPU and PC market. Prices for GPU's are climbing higher with people struggling with inflation and job cuts. This is not a time to do that. I have the money but refuse to pay inflated prices for the 7900 XTX or 4090.

Like I tell the car dealers, i'll wait for prices to come down.

 

[aalkjsdflkj]

I really hope the wait isn't much longer for for the 7800 and below cards. I'm still using my old 1070 on an UWQHD monitor which restricts me to either older games or low settings plus FSR. I planned on buying either a 3070 or 6700 / 6700XT two years ago when prices and availability went nuts. Now at least the 6700-series is available and reasonably priced, but I'd rather not buy a 2-year old card. My guess is that when Starfield comes out I'll finally get whatever I can so I can play it on release.

Please, AMD, give us some idea of when the cards below the 7900-series are coming!

 

[InvalidError]

Why would a company sell less expensive products when they can sell as many top of the line products as they can deliver?

There is a bunch of RX7900XT models available from Newegg at or near MSRP, not exactly a sign of stellar sales. While XTX models are out of stock almost everywhere, we have no idea how many of those have actually shipped. We do know that AMD lost 4% dGPU market share to Intel who is currently a tiny dGPU player. We also know that dGPU sales are at a 20 years low. Seems like whatever 7900XXX AMD is shipping may not amount to much.

 

[Elusive Ruse]

I commend AMD for being honest here, let's be frank, if they had tried to be sly with the charts we'd all be flaming them.

 

[Ar558]

Neither AMD or nVidia seem to have the enthusiasm to create any mainstream products in the key price category of $250-400 for gamers. They are happy to try and flog the high markup enthusiast lines and leave the bulk of the market with older products on older cheaper technologies even if these are overpriced at that. I presume AMD doesn't feel it can actually take this part of the market from nVidia either on technology or volume (they always seem to be out of stock, here in the UK 7000 cards have been scarce even at the Halo tier). We need a real competitor who wants to win gamers over with competitive, competitively priced products but it seems unlikely. Intel should have the resources to do it but from where they are now even if they are fully committed it will likely take 3-5 years.

 

[SyCoREAPER]

I'm not a fanboy (fanboism is stupid)

But I'd be lying if didn't admit that I'm sitting here eating popcorn watching AMD burn. AMD kids were making memes about 4090s catching fire when all it was was user error of not inserting the plug all the way.

Here the 7000-Series has a faulty cooler design and is actually burning up with no recourse other than a recall.

Anyway, I'll enjoy gaming on my Advantage Edition Laptop and 4090 powered Desktop. Playing all the sides with no favorites. No favorites but find it all amusing nevertheless.

 

[InvalidError]

We need a real competitor who wants to win gamers over with competitive, competitively priced products but it seems unlikely. Intel should have the resources to do it but from where they are now even if they are fully committed it will likely take 3-5 years.

Intel would have been mostly there right now if it aimed somewhere between where the RTX3050 and RX6600 have landed with a DG2-256 die instead of aiming for the RTX3070 and barely hitting the RTX3060 with its DG2-512. Good all-around drivers may still be 1-2 years away but the hardware is mostly here if Intel could be bothered to make a design cost-optimized for the $200-250 mainstream mass-market.

Based on Intel's treasure hunt prizes valuation though, it seemed quite clear that Intel initially wanted to charge $200+ more for its A770 than what it ended up launching at, no interest at all in providing great value per dollar where the market is most desperate for it and have that whole market segment all to itself as there was nothing available new anywhere near $200 that could have competed with a DG2-256 at the time.

 

[Ar558]

Intel would have been mostly there right now if it aimed somewhere between where the RTX3050 and RX6600 have landed with a DG2-256 die instead of aiming for the RTX3070 and barely hitting the RTX3060 with its DG2-512. Good all-around drivers may still be 1-2 years away but the hardware is mostly here if Intel could be bothered to make a design cost-optimized for the $200-250 mainstream mass-market.

Based on Intel's treasure hunt prizes valuation though, it seemed quite clear that Intel initially wanted to charge $200+ more for its A770 than what it ended up launching at, no interest at all in providing great value per dollar where the market is most desperate for it and have that whole market segment all to itself as there was nothing available new anywhere near $200 that could have competed with a DG2-256 at the time.

Kinda feels like AMD, nVidia and Intel are colluding to create an OPEC of GPU's so they can keep the budget barrier to entry at $300+ and the old mainstream equivalent at $500+.

 

[rluker5]

Intel would have been mostly there right now if it aimed somewhere between where the RTX3050 and RX6600 have landed with a DG2-256 die instead of aiming for the RTX3070 and barely hitting the RTX3060 with its DG2-512. Good all-around drivers may still be 1-2 years away but the hardware is mostly here if Intel could be bothered to make a design cost-optimized for the $200-250 mainstream mass-market.

Based on Intel's treasure hunt prizes valuation though, it seemed quite clear that Intel initially wanted to charge $200+ more for its A770 than what it ended up launching at, no interest at all in providing great value per dollar where the market is most desperate for it and have that whole market segment all to itself as there was nothing available new anywhere near $200 that could have competed with a DG2-256 at the time.

The A750 may have been axed by cost savings measures. Intel did lay some people off and some extra products of dubious profitability were likely cut first.

It could be why AMD isn't selling low end or midrange RDNA3. Maybe they need to keep selling the old stuff to keep costs down. Kind of like the rebrandeon years.

 

[hannibal]

Heh!
If Nvidia would make similar table with
4080 vs 3080 it would look exactly as bad

So the prices of all new products are going up, or they drop the specks. New Motorola phones has worse screen than pervious model, but they keep the price same... That is what inflations is. Keep the same price and make worse product or make as good product and increase price... That is how it is going in cell phones at least.
Most likely also in GPU... well in GPU it is actually better. You get same speed or little more at the same price. So it is tiny bit better in here, but only tiny bit.

 

[InvalidError]

So the prices of all new products are going up, or they drop the specks. New Motorola phones has worse screen than pervious model, but they keep the price same... That is what inflations is.

Historically in tech, tech still got cheaper and faster at a rate far outpacing any inflation. Also historically, most people don't bother upgrading their tech unless they are getting meaningfully better performance or features per dollar from their upgrade. If companies offer nothing new for the price, they can expect stagnant or regressing sales. What is happening today? Tech giants are on a firing spree from dwindling sales. They exhausted the market willing to spend on overpriced crap and now companies have to choose between price cuts to stimulate sales or betting on consumers caving in and continue to buy at inflated prices later.

 

[drivinfast247]

I'm not a fanboy (fanboism is stupid)

But I'd be lying if didn't admit that I'm sitting here eating popcorn watching AMD burn. AMD kids were making memes about 4090s catching fire when all it was was user error of not inserting the plug all the way.

Here the 7000-Series has a faulty cooler design and is actually burning up with no recourse other than a recall.

Anyway, I'll enjoy gaming on my Advantage Edition Laptop and 4090 powered Desktop. Playing all the sides with no favorites. No favorites but find it all amusing nevertheless.

In reality the 4xxx series "problem" is across the entire line and affects all manufacturers. Whereas the amd issue is only a particular line of reference based cards.

 

[KyaraM]

In reality the 4xxx series "problem" is across the entire line and affects all manufacturers. Whereas the amd issue is only a particular line of reference based cards.

It's still mostly a user error that Gamers Nexus found quite hard to reproduce since it is rather specific; not plugging the cable in isn'tenough, it also has to be tilted in a very specific way to burn up, which is why there are so few cases of this (that, as always, scream the loudest). And apparently also the cable itself in some cases, but that isn't made by NVIDIA afaik. I rather blame the manufacturer for a bad product which they don't even want to admit is an actual, widespread issue, than for user error. Btw, if you "4XXX" cards, do you mean all 4000 cards incmuding 4080 and 4070Ti? Because I never heard of that issue with those cards before.

 

[drivinfast247]

It's still mostly a user error that Gamers Nexus found quite hard to reproduce since it is rather specific; not plugging the cable in isn'tenough, it also has to be tilted in a very specific way to burn up, which is why there are so few cases of this (that, as always, scream the loudest). And apparently also the cable itself in some cases, but that isn't made by NVIDIA afaik. I rather blame the manufacturer for a bad product which they don't even want to admit is an actual, widespread issue, than for user error. Btw, if you "4XXX" cards, do you mean all 4000 cards incmuding 4080 and 4070Ti? Because I never heard of that issue with those cards before.

Hence the quotes around "problem".

And regarding the 4xxx series, I would expect all that use the new plug design are susceptible to the problem. It probably not much of an issue though with the lower end cards drawing much less current.

 

[SyCoREAPER]

In reality the 4xxx series "problem" is across the entire line and affects all manufacturers. Whereas the amd issue is only a particular line of reference based cards.

DerBauerEN made a good point. They claim they know exactly which batch when they actually do not. If they did know they could easily have a web tool to enter the SN on their site or push a notification via Adrenaline.

Fact is they don't know and most AMD cards are based on reference so by extension the cooler design is faulty in 3rd party ones. All AMD card designs are provided by AMD.

As you mentioned reference cards, that's all AMD does, they do t have AMD distributed cards like Nvidia does with the founders edition.

Generally OEMs dont do any additional R&D on AMD cards, except some minor cooling enhancements based on the original.

 

[drivinfast247]

DerBauerEN made a good point. They claim they know exactly which batch when they actually do not. If they did know they could easily have a web tool to enter the SN on their site or push a notification via Adrenaline.

Fact is they don't know and most AMD cards are based on reference so by extension the cooler design is faulty in 3rd party ones. All AMD card designs are provided by AMD.

As you mentioned reference cards, that's all AMD does, they do t have AMD distributed cards like Nvidia does with the founders edition.

Generally OEMs dont do any additional R&D on AMD cards, except some minor cooling enhancements based on the original.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say, but the fact is only(some?) cards based on the AMD reference cooler are affected. All other AIBs are fine.

 

[SyCoREAPER]

I'm not sure what you're trying to say, but the fact is only(some?) cards based on the AMD reference cooler are affected. All other AIBs are fine.

To simplify what I meant , the majority of cards are based on the reference design. At least those that we able to obtain one.

Another fun fact is that AMD is already pushing the card to its limits from the drawing board since they so heavily locked out OC. Because this thing should have been a 3 slot card and frankly they were too busy throwing shade.

I hope for consumers sake they get it sorted but the fact that they are lying about it is giving me Samsung Note 7 vibes.

All that aside, I'd really like Intel to take things seriously and disrupt AMD and Nvidia and bring prices back to reality.