AMD FirePro V8700: High-End Workstation Graphics

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Tindytim

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Can we get some BIOS hacks for the next review of Workstation cards? Since 99% of the cards are just Desktop variants with the drivers being the difference, all that's Needed is a BIOS hack.

I'd love to see how the real thing would stack up next to a card with different BIOS.
 

bvanveelen

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Is that 1% difference in hardware enough to give these big differences? If the firepro drivers could somehow be applied to a HD4870 would it give similar performance?
 

curnel_D

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[citation][nom]Tindytim[/nom]Can we get some BIOS hacks for the next review of Workstation cards? Since 99% of the cards are just Desktop variants with the drivers being the difference, all that's Needed is a BIOS hack.I'd love to see how the real thing would stack up next to a card with different BIOS.[/citation]
Ok, so basically, we'd have to get ahold of a fireGL bios, and hack it into a 3850. If there was an equivilant to a 3870, I'd do it myself.
Who's brave enough? :p
 

Tindytim

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[citation][nom]bvanveelen[/nom]Is that 1% difference in hardware enough to give these big differences? If the firepro drivers could somehow be applied to a HD4870 would it give similar performance?[/citation]
That's what a BIOS hack will do. You change the BIOS of the 4870 card to that of it's workstation equivalent.
 

Antiphonal

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It's funny - my HD4870 is intentionally crippled in applications that I will not use so they can use a 5x price mark up for people who use those applications. /sigh
 

Tindytim

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[citation][nom]curnel_d[/nom]Ok, so basically, we'd have to get ahold of a fireGL bios, and hack it into a 3850. If there was an equivilant to a 3870, I'd do it myself. Who's brave enough?[/citation]
Do a google search. It's been done before. Although I doubt this new card would yield any benefit over a 4870 with a BIOS hack, other than in some overclocking.

I'd be more interested in the Nvidia card because then they at least add a little more VRAM. Hell, I'd love to see a Quadro card, with lots of VRAM, BIOS hacked to a Desktop variant to see how it would do at higher resolutions over the actual desktop variant.
 

Harby

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[citation][nom]Antiphonal[/nom]It's funny - my HD4870 is intentionally crippled in applications that I will not use so they can use a 5x price mark up for people who use those applications. /sigh[/citation]

You're clueless. The price premium is for the drivers themselves, not the hardware. No one crippled your gaming card. But no one optimized its drivers for workstation applications either. And these optimizations are not simple tweaks but massive and careful code to give you massive performance boost under very very specific applications.

You could go as far as saying that you're in essence buying an expensive piece of software as well and not just a graphics card.
 
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You should test the other way around also, how does workstation card perform in games? (Not possible maybe)
 

Harby

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[citation][nom]vixenistheshit[/nom]You should test the other way around also, how does workstation card perform in games? (Not possible maybe)[/citation]

Of course its possible. But at best performance will be equal, I would assume a bit worse, depending on whether FirePro drivers include the specific game optimizations catalayst includes or not.
 

krazyderek

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Drivers and 3yr support aside, I really really really really would have liked to see the top 4870 1gb consumer card thrown in just for a reference point. It would do wonders to help justify the price markup to my boss that signs the purchase order.
 

JPForums

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Wow, I never would've thought that the V7700 would've outperformed the V8700 in any of the benchmarks. I never thought the GPU frequency difference of 25MHz would make up for fact that the V8700 has 2.5x sthe SPUs and ~60% more memory bandwidth than the V7700 (given how similar the architectures are). Can this one be chalked up to less mature drivers or is there some hardware design issue hindering the performance of what seems to be the clearly superior card?

The V8700 doesn't loose to the V7700 all that often, but in some of the cases when it does loose, it also looses to nVidia's counterparts (with the V7700 winning). It would be a much more compelling product (especially at the already good price) if it could beat the V7700 across the board.
 

Tindytim

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[citation][nom]Harby[/nom]Of course its possible. But at best performance will be equal, I would assume a bit worse, depending on whether FirePro drivers include the specific game optimizations catalayst includes or not.[/citation]
Ah, but that's assuming they are the same. Some Nvidia cards have more VRAM than their desktop counterparts. With a BIOS hack, I wouldn't be surprised if they did better than them, especially in those higher res situations.
 

lamorpa

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Maybe, "the pricing on this card makes it a very good deal for the money" could be better phrased as, "the money you pay based on pricing on this card makes the amount you pay a very good deal in terms monetary amount for the money that you pay which is less money than you might expect because it is a good money deal"
 

Pei-chen

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Would the new GTX 285 2GB outperform these cards? 285 2GB is so much more powerful in gaming maybe it can make a difference in rendering.
 

pcfxer

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Aren't the FirePro and GL cards more money than the desktop variants??? Why would you then waste your time with a hack?
 

Tindytim

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[citation][nom]pcfxer[/nom]Aren't the FirePro and GL cards more money than the desktop variants??? Why would you then waste your time with a hack?[/citation]
You got it backwards. You get a cheaper desktop card, BIOS hack is, then use the expensive FirePro drivers.
 

ses27

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If the soldworks benchmark is still openGL then its obsolete
Soldedworks went directX in ver 2009
And there main competition Inventor in 2008
Both stating the fact that openGL cards are too expensive
So TW your soldworks benchmark looks obsolete
 

Harby

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[citation][nom]Pei-chen[/nom]Would the new GTX 285 2GB outperform these cards? 285 2GB is so much more powerful in gaming maybe it can make a difference in rendering.[/citation]

You guys really don't get it. These are not gaming cards. Check the difference between 4870 and 8700. It goes up to 6 times slower in specific applications while they pretty much sport identical hardware.

So no, a 285 would not outperform a 8700 on the applications tested on this review. Once again, major part here is the driver, not the hardware. Stop thinking that workstation applications work like games.
 

Harby

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Also guys don't forget image quality as well. As stated in this article putting performance aside, there was big difference in rendering quality as well.
 

Niva

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[citation][nom]JPForums[/nom]Wow, I never would've thought that the V7700 would've outperformed the V8700 in any of the benchmarks. I never thought the GPU frequency difference of 25MHz would make up for fact that the V8700 has 2.5x sthe SPUs and ~60% more memory bandwidth than the V7700 (given how similar the architectures are). Can this one be chalked up to less mature drivers or is there some hardware design issue hindering the performance of what seems to be the clearly superior card?The V8700 doesn't loose to the V7700 all that often, but in some of the cases when it does loose, it also looses to nVidia's counterparts (with the V7700 winning). It would be a much more compelling product (especially at the already good price) if it could beat the V7700 across the board.[/citation]
This is most likely due to the fact that both of these cards are optimized for openGL and taht the applications being tested don't currently make good use of the extra capabilities of the new card. You have to understand that currently the hardware is VERY far ahead of the software. Also the way the benchmarks were done can be outdated, they even used Maya 6.5 in these benchmarks which is.. what? 5 years old?

Anyways, I really want to thank THG for this review. Please do more of these when you have a chance.
 
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