News AMD Fluid Motion Frames 2 lowers latency by 28% — low-latency frame generation comes to RX 6000 and RX 7000 GPUs

[Admin]

AMD has revealed the second iteration of its Fluid Motion Frames frame generation technology, which offers numerous upgrades over AFMF 1.

AMD Fluid Motion Frames 2 lowers latency by 28% — low-latency frame generation comes to RX 6000 and RX 7000 GPUs : Read more

 

[Amdlova]

have tried this tech... but it's super lag 28% of lag still lag!

 

[phxrider]

When is this hitting the production driver?

 

[OneMoreUser]

have tried this tech... but it's super lag 28% of lag still lag!

You can't have frame generation with no lag, just as you can't have normal frames without lag.

By its very nature a generated frame is not directly linked to your input, but more like an estimation of what is to come and this of course means more lag.

 

[OneMoreUser]

When is this hitting the production driver?

Likely in the next release, so could be less than a month.

 

[King_V]

have tried this tech... but it's super lag 28% of lag still lag!

I find it particularly unlikely that a user with a history of just about always looking for an opportunity to say something negative about AMD has already tried the newest version of an AMD technology.

 

[kealii123]

You can't have frame generation with no lag, just as you can't have normal frames without lag.

By its very nature a generated frame is not directly linked to your input, but more like an estimation of what is to come and this of course means more lag.

Yes, but theres lag and then theres lag. On the steamdeck, HFB, turning on current gen AMD frame generation gives it at least 500ms latency. Its unplayable.

 

[husker]

Yes, but theres lag and then theres lag. On the steamdeck, HFB, turning on current gen AMD frame generation gives it at least 500ms latency. Its unplayable.

Just a thought, but perhaps the Steam Deck itself is partly to blame for this. I'm not an expert but imagine the capabilities of the client play some kind of a role.

 

[Amdlova]

I find it particularly unlikely that a user with a history of just about always looking for an opportunity to say something negative about AMD has already tried the newest version of an AMD technology.

Don't worry if you like jet lag, turbo lag or amd lag.
Lag is lag

 

[phxrider]

Yes, but theres lag and then theres lag. On the steamdeck, HFB, turning on current gen AMD frame generation gives it at least 500ms latency. Its unplayable.

I can promise you it's not this way on a 7900xtx, 7900xt or 780M APU GPU. It's quite playable. Keep in mind, AMD says this tech isn't for twitch games.

 

[renz496]

I can promise you it's not this way on a 7900xtx, 7900xt or 780M APU GPU. It's quite playable. Keep in mind, AMD says this tech isn't for twitch games.

And yet it is the genre that want the most frame rate to reduce the latency as much as possible.

 

[TheHerald]

Afmf is horrible.

 

[bill001g]

And yet it is the genre that want the most frame rate to reduce the latency as much as possible.

A lot of this is people imaginations. The theory on more frame rate on shooter games is maybe one of those extra frames contains your opponent. A lot of this is silly since first your monitor has to actually be able to display the extra frames. Then you get into the discussion of what can the human eye really see. Not worth arguing with gamers who think they are superman and have alien eyes that can see more than scientific tests say humans can. Anecdotal post on gamer forums are all that matter.

The latency issue is more related to from time your eye sees the frame..assuming you saw it..and the time it takes for the input from your fingers to register.

With any kind of frame gen the time it takes for the frame to appear is increased, from what I can tell this is also the real frames as well as the generated ones. Generated frames have little value in a shooter game. They can not magically display your opponent and if they were there for one the real frames the fake frame will make it blurry as it averages the other frames.

 

[kealii123]

I can promise you it's not this way on a 7900xtx, 7900xt or 780M APU GPU. It's quite playable. Keep in mind, AMD says this tech isn't for twitch games.

Ya, but modern, dedicated desktop GPUs don't really need this. From what I've seen, both AMD and nvidia frame generation works best when your "natural" frames are already above 60, and at that point lower latency matters more than extra _real_ frames, let alone pseudo frames.

Are you sure about the 780m performing well with this? Do you have real, hands on experience? This fall I'm looking to "upgrade " the steamdeck

 

[phxrider]

Ya, but modern, dedicated desktop GPUs don't really need this. From what I've seen, both AMD and nvidia frame generation works best when your "natural" frames are already above 60, and at that point lower latency matters more than extra _real_ frames, let alone pseudo frames.

Are you sure about the 780m performing well with this? Do you have real, hands on experience? This fall I'm looking to "upgrade " the steamdeck

It depends on system and, I suspect, monitor type and performance. I've used it with varying results. Far Cry 6 runs best with it off and looks "strobey" or "framey" with it on. Starfield likes the in game FSR frame generation on some systems and AFMF on others - my main system with 7800x3d+7900xtx with OLED monitor likes AFMF, my mini PC with Oculink 7900xt and a mini-LED monitor likes FSR3 frame gen. It works great with Helldivers 2 and Cyberpunk. It seems pickier on monitors with really fast response time like OLED.

And yes, I have a mini-PC and a Minisforum tablet with 780m graphics. It can make an unplayable game playable. Obviously, you will have less lag, the higher your native frame rate is.

RSR is another epic feature for low-end graphics like the 780m, using combinations of FSR and RSR, I've been able to get Far Cry 6 to run upscaled playably at 2560x1600 on "high" graphics settings on my V3 with 8840u. I'm saying this is playable, not perfect. There are no tricks (yet) that can make a 780m play like a 7900.

This is probably borderline useless for competitive twitch games, but for people like me that don't play PVP twitch games it's great.

 

[kealii123]

It depends on system and, I suspect, monitor type and performance. I've used it with varying results. Far Cry 6 runs best with it off and looks "strobey" or "framey" with it on. Starfield likes the in game FSR frame generation on some systems and AFMF on others - my main system with 7800x3d+7900xtx with OLED monitor likes AFMF, my mini PC with Oculink 7900xt and a mini-LED monitor likes FSR3 frame gen. It works great with Helldivers 2 and Cyberpunk. It seems pickier on monitors with really fast response time like OLED.

And yes, I have a mini-PC and a Minisforum tablet with 780m graphics. It can make an unplayable game playable. Obviously, you will have less lag, the higher your native frame rate is.

RSR is another epic feature for low-end graphics like the 780m, using combinations of FSR and RSR, I've been able to get Far Cry 6 to run upscaled playably at 2560x1600 on "high" graphics settings on my V3 with 8840u. I'm saying this is playable, not perfect. There are no tricks (yet) that can make a 780m play like a 7900.

This is probably borderline useless for competitive twitch games, but for people like me that don't play PVP twitch games it's great.

How do you like that Minisforum v3? I almost bought one, but my 12" tablet is already too big to use as a tablet and its mostly used like a laptop.

 

[OneMoreUser]

And yet it is the genre that want the most frame rate to reduce the latency as much as possible.

Latency is about more than frame rate, as frame generation demonstrates very well.

 

[phxrider]

How do you like that Minisforum v3? I almost bought one, but my 12" tablet is already too big to use as a tablet and its mostly used like a laptop.

Love it. I mostly use it as an ultra light and portable laptop - rarely as a tablet.... But that said, it's nice to be able to do it when I have a use for it.

 

[phxrider]

Just got around to trying the preview driver on the V3 - HUGE difference in lag compared to AFMF1. I tested in Far Cry 6, the difference was enough that I could move FSR quality level up one and still have less lag than before. I play that game with an odd selection of upscaling, 1680x1050 on the "High" graphics preset, with FSR and then let RSR upscale it to the 2560x1600 resolution of the monitor. Previously I had FSR on the "Performance" setting (fastest/lowest quality) with definitely noticeable, but playable lag, now I was able to move it up to the "Balanced" FSR setting and still have less lag than previous. Lag was basically non-existent on "Performance", I decided I preferred the slightly better visual fidelity with some perceptible lag compromise. But we're talking about native framerates from ~35 to the low 50s, so doubling that artificially with only a very slight lag is quite an achievement, IMO.

I suspect this is going to be a real boost for 780M based devices like Asus and Lenovo handhelds and the V3 and multiple other mini-PCs and laptops with Zen 4 APUs. Basically what it accomplishes is to move the playable native frame rate lower than it was with AFMF1 - if AFMF1 needed ~40-45 native FPS to be playable, you would be able to get away with ~30-35 native FPS with AFMF2 with similar lag.

I don't notice a difference with my faster systems with 7900xtx/7900xt GPUs, but those never had any issue with lag, the issue there is exceeding the monitor's refresh rate, resulting in "framier" movement (looking more like frames than smooth movement) than with it off, as Freesync applies V-Sync to keep it within the monitor's max refresh.

 

[phxrider]

A lot of this is people imaginations. The theory on more frame rate on shooter games is maybe one of those extra frames contains your opponent. A lot of this is silly since first your monitor has to actually be able to display the extra frames. Then you get into the discussion of what can the human eye really see. Not worth arguing with gamers who think they are superman and have alien eyes that can see more than scientific tests say humans can. Anecdotal post on gamer forums are all that matter.

The latency issue is more related to from time your eye sees the frame..assuming you saw it..and the time it takes for the input from your fingers to register.

With any kind of frame gen the time it takes for the frame to appear is increased, from what I can tell this is also the real frames as well as the generated ones. Generated frames have little value in a shooter game. They can not magically display your opponent and if they were there for one the real frames the fake frame will make it blurry as it averages the other frames.

Frame insertion tech is IMO more for making unplayable games playable on lower end systems than turning 200 FPS into 400 for competitive shooters. I have done enough testing with it to conclude that it hurts aiming speed due to lag and that outweighs anything positive it does for the framerate for fast shooters. AFMF is great for making the game look better and smoother in PvE games where split-second reaction is not a major issue. IMO it's not beneficial in PvP games where reaction speed is everything.

I prefer large open world games so it's great for me, especially on my V3 tablet that has just enough GPU power to barely run AAA games. I also know people who would find it useless in the games they prefer.

If you're a competitive shooter guy, I'm sorry to say there is no software tech that can get you out of paying for a good CPU and GPU (and a high-refresh monitor to use it) to be competitive.

 

[phxrider]

Found a good use for AFMF 2 on a high-end system. You can crank up VSR or the game's internal rendering ratio (if you can set that) to where you're GPU limited to about 75 FPS, then use AFMF 2 to double it. At 75 native FPS, lag is unnoticeable when frame-doubled. This gives you a sharper, better looking picture without using fake sharpening, and movement is smooth as glass. You can probably go higher if your monitor does, but mine are all 165-180Hz and the goal is not to exceed that, as doing so leads to perception of lag and strobing.

Again, not recommending for competitive PvP shooters where you really don't care about visual fidelity (although I can't sense any lag), but it works great for Starfield / Cyberpunk / Far Cry style games.