News AMD mobile CPUs power new mini-ITX motherboards — Zen 3 or Zen 4 chip onboard, two M.2 slots, and four 2.5G Ethernet ports

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Changwang offers four different Ryzen 7000 APUs: the Ryzen 9 7940HS, the Ryzen 7 7840HS, the Ryzen 7 7735HS, and the Ryzen 5 7640HS.

These motherboards with integrated Ryzen 7000 APUs might have been pretty killer a few months ago, but just days ago, AMD launched its Ryzen 8000G series APUs for the desktop, which use the same Phoenix chip that the Ryzen 7040HS chips use. Ryzen 8000G chips are a little faster, more customizable, and can be installed and upgraded like regular desktop chips, which are all significant points against Changwang's motherboard.

FWIW, this MoDT 'mobile on desktop' model actually comes with the latest Ryzen 7 8845HS CPU support as well (see the image embedded below).

Even though the specs also list the Ryzen 5 7640HS, the company is planning to drop the idea to include this particular SKU (confirmed this via the AIB board channel forums. Some say there was a typo error in the marketing specs sheet).

But in any case, it would be nice to have the Ryzen 7 8845HS on this board as well, the latest "HAWK POINT" Zen 4 processor. This would add some extra cost to this MoDT board though. But these MoDT boards don't allow any upgradability or any replacement option.

And, similar to the recently released Ryzen 8000G APUs, the CPU's TDP can be unlocked to 65 Watts via the BIOS, from the default 54 Watts (applies to all CPUs on this board).

No AM5 motherboards, however, come with four Ethernet ports, a unique selling point for Changwang's Ryzen 7000 motherboard.

Actually the main selling point of this board isn't for Gaming though, as the company is targeting Home servers, NAS, and network/storage devices. The board also supports two SFF-8643 ports, for additional 8 SATA ports as well (so a total of 9 SATA drives supported by this board).

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This would basically make for the most fully featured low power NAS.

I really liked their last NAS boards, but the SoC wasn't powerful enough so I didn't get one. They've since updated that one to ADL-N which makes it more functional. They did make a clever low footprint NAS case, but it's also 6 drives so I'm curious if theyll adapt it or not.

I have two minipc router boxes built using their boards and they've been pretty good. They have some of the most interesting board designs out there.
 
Erying and their other counterparts in China evidently started making use of stockpiles of chips, that missed the window of top margin opportunity when they were fresh of the presses, or fabs in this case. It made some extra money for expenses already incurred by Intel and AMD and great combinations of price and value appeal to the thrifty customer, too.

And I like that a lot, because for years now, "notebook tech" was quite powerful enough not just for the classical desktop workloads, but also µ-servers, there with the additional benefit of modest power consumption. I don't even mind paying a little extra for a "notebook chip" in a "desktop" Mini-ITX board, if it saves me space, noise and electricity.

And I quite like the fact that e.g. Erying actually offers the full portfolio from Tiger Lake engineering samples to 14th gen, where the main differentiator is just the price.

For far too long AMD was churning out perfectly good mobile chips for this type of board, but nobody would sell them (except as industrial). At the sime time, AMD wasn't doing that great on notebooks, leaving a lot of these mobile chips sit around in warehouses until it because obvious that they wouldn't clear out via laptops.

So I hope this will become a trend, where SoCs from team blue and red will be available in the full performance and generational range, and customers just need to concern themselves with price vs. features/performance, and not have to wonder when or if a combo will be made eventually.

I'd just like variants with ECC and 10Gbase-T, too.
 
FWIW, this MoDT 'mobile on desktop' model actually comes with the latest Ryzen 7 8845HS CPU support as well (see the image embedded below).

Even though the specs also list the Ryzen 5 7640HS, the company is planning to drop the idea to include this particular SKU (confirmed this via the AIB board channel forums. Some say there was a typo error in the marketing specs sheet).

But in any case, it would be nice to have the Ryzen 7 8845HS on this board as well, the latest "HAWK POINT" Zen 4 processor. This would add some extra cost to this MoDT board though. But these MoDT boards don't allow any upgradability or any replacement option.

And, similar to the recently released Ryzen 8000G APUs, the CPU's TDP can be unlocked to 65 Watts via the BIOS, from the default 54 Watts (applies to all CPUs on this board).



Actually the main selling point of this board isn't for Gaming though, as the company is targeting Home servers, NAS, and network/storage devices. The board also supports two SFF-8643 ports, for additional 8 SATA ports as well (so a total of 9 SATA drives supported by this board).

Q8RgBfc.jpeg


WsAnh1x.jpeg
Great. How do we get one? I don't read Chinese.
 
Great. How do we get one? I don't read Chinese.
Most likely aliexpress/taobao/CWWK like the rest of their stuff. Periodically they make their way to Amazon sellers, but it's all the same hardware just a matter of who you want to facilitate it. Two versions of the ADL-N NAS boards launched in Dec and Jan respectively so I'd expect sometime this month or next at the earliest.
 
Great value for a utility box provided they are Intel networking chips. But what CPU cooler can you use? It's non standard height.
I'd disagree on the value of the Intel network chips: in my practical experience since NBase-T was created ten years ago. Aquantia has delivered support for all common or more exotic Linux, Xen, BSD and even Windows variants, at much better value for the full speed range from 0.1/1/2.5/5 and10Gbit.

Intel has a myriad of distinct chipsets and driver families and often won't support all chipsets across all OS families. Their 2.5 Gbit offerings have become quite infamous for all sorts of trouble and offer far too limited speed advantages at the cost of full driver incompatibility over their Gbit offerings.

For the cooler, Erying tends to provide a heat spreader which brings the mobile chip to the height compatible with desktop coolers, albeit with a very bad thermal compound that results in throttling so early on, that it turned out hard to detect (HWinfo couldn't even catch the triggering).

After I replaced that with liquid metal (kept the heat spreader), 95 Watts sustained performance with an i7-12700H was possible with a modest Noctua NH-L9i cooler.

Changwang seems to offer a "Qiaosibo cooler" alternate variant, but won't show specs or a picture.

One can only hope, that they'll adopt an approach similar to Erying so you can choose your own cooling solution.
Asking them might help raise some interest and/or awareness: Chinese vendors can still be as reactive as US vendors were perhaps 40 years ago.

Again, in the case of Erying, the technical support was far better than big brand names are these days, but you better test that with Changwang.

Unfortunately their international web site doesn't seem to carry the product yet.

 
I didn't login to check to see which aliexpress store I purchased from before so I can't speak to whether or not this one is solid (if you've never used aliexpress there tend to be several stores with very similar names). Here's the first listing for one of these boards: https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256806342934461.html

The listing has all of the details, but to address some of what wasn't covered in the article: LGA 1700 cooler compatibility, they're i226-V NICs and it claims to support ECC (it's most likely accurate, but you never know).
 
Given the integrated graphics, it seems ideal to pair it up with a smart raid/storage card, that has built-in bifurcation, esp. if one/both M2 slots are used for storage, and go for a serious home server.

I do wonder if the M2 slots would permit an M2 to 10GbE Ethernet Adapter.
You don't even need to use that NIC, there are M.2 to PCIe x4 cable-mostly adapter.

"mostly" because they typically include a PCB just to fix the M.2 side in place, not because any logic is required or included. In fact they are fully passive and as such agnostic to the PCIe revision you might be using.

If and how reliable they might survive PCIe v5 speeds I'd love to know, as those are reported to overwhelm PCB designers with regards to signal integrity.

The biggest advantage of those cables is that they allow you to re-use a 10Gbase-T PCIe adapter you already own (and might want to reuse elsewhere later). In fact whatever you use with that doesn't even have to be Ethernet...

M.2 really is nothing but PCIe x4 to the mainboard and will happily accomodate everything that works with PCIe as long as you can fit it into your case.

I have a Supermicro Xeon D-1542 board, that came only with Gbit onboard NICs, but a 16x PCIe and one M.2 slot.

I put an Aquantia ACQ 107 into the x16 slot for 10Gbit networking originally and an NMVe drive into the M.2 socket.

But then I wanted more NVMe drives, so I swapped the 10Gbit NIC to use the M.2 slot via the cable adapter and put a "quadfurcation" board into the x16 slot which holds up to 4 M.2 NVMe units.

Space allowing you can combine the two, using a "quadfurcation" board to split into four M.2 sockets which you then populate directly or turn into x4 slots.

Those you can connect to PCIe switch boards that expand PCIe x4 to quad M.2 with two lanes each. Into these you can fit standard M.2 5xSATA adapters using two lanes for 20 SATA SSDs out of a single x16 slot etc. (I've tried each of these individual steps, not all at once).

But you may need to take a closer look at those x16 slots: everything APU based may actually only support 8x lanes electrical even on a 16x slot.

Bifurcation isn't a function of the add-on cards, but of the onboard chipset or SoC and typically needs BIOS support to initialize the root ports accordingly and before booting.
 
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Bifurcation isn't a function of the add-on cards, but of the onboard chipset or SoC and typically needs BIOS support to initialize the root ports accordingly and before booting.
I'm pretty sure there are add-in cards that can do bifurcation, meant for use with motherboards that don't support bifurcation normally (or have more limited bifurcation options). An old one for example was this IO Crest card that had a bridge chip allowing all 4 drives to be seen by the OS even on mobos that don't support bifurcation (but that one is x16, and no idea if it can operate on x8 with reduced speed).

Those were the ones I was thinking of (specifically, the few x8 options available out there), which could in theory help offset the x8 limitation while still allowing 4 or more M2 drives to show up (the few x8 PCIe 4.0 cards that support 4 NVMe).

The theoretical alternative I had in mind is something like a Synology E10M20 x8 card in that can do 10GbE + 2 NVMe, leaving the other NVMe slots free for other adapters like you've mentioned.

In either case, taking your ideas into account, such add-in cards could theoretically offer even more expansion if any of the slots can present other adapters, allowing for multiple SATA SSDs or even some old-school high-capacity HDDs.

Now these specialty boards seem even more tempting to play around with.
 
I'm pretty sure there are add-in cards that can do bifurcation, meant for use with motherboards that don't support bifurcation normally (or have more limited bifurcation options).
Unfortunately PCIe lane bifurcation and PCIe lane switching often get mixed up, even if they are not the same.

It doesn't help, that they can in fact be combined...

Bifurcation is splitting the lanes of a slot into smaller pieces via a 'purely' mechanical or non-logical means (=cheap!). There might be some components, even re-timers, but logically the splitting is manged between upstream switch (normally a root complex on a mainboard) and the individual bifurcated devices. The splitting board itself is transparent in terms of PCIe negotiations and operations.
An old one for example was this IO Crest card that had a bridge chip allowing all 4 drives to be seen by the OS even on mobos that don't support bifurcation (but that one is x16, and no idea if it can operate on x8 with reduced speed).
That card is in fact using a PCIe switch chip, which is the reason it works even when bifurcation isn't available on the mainboard. The mainboard still needs to support PCIe switches..

While bifurcation can only hard partition PCIe lanes, most of the time switches are used to multiplex/switch and over-subscribe PCIe lanes, so you would e.g. use them to put 4 NVMe drives into one 4x slot to increase capacity, but not bandwidth (IOPS could be better though).

They are much more expensive than bifurcation or even additional NVMe drives, so they have been very rare on DIY hardware, because all the distinct vendors were bought up by Marvell/Broadcom and prices went through the roof.

As active components they can also require quite a bit of power all for themselves with fans even for PCIe v3.

At PCIe v4 or v5 these switches become academically much more interesting, but unfotunately also 'unobtainium'.
Those were the ones I was thinking of (specifically, the few x8 options available out there), which could in theory help offset the x8 limitation while still allowing 4 or more M2 drives to show up (the few x8 PCIe 4.0 cards that support 4 NVMe).

The theoretical alternative I had in mind is something like a Synology E10M20 x8 card in that can do 10GbE + 2 NVMe, leaving the other NVMe slots free for other adapters like you've mentioned.

In either case, taking your ideas into account, such add-in cards could theoretically offer even more expansion if any of the slots can present other adapters, allowing for multiple SATA SSDs or even some old-school high-capacity HDDs.

Now these specialty boards seem even more tempting to play around with.
Southbridges have mostly been rather rich multi-protocol switches allowing for a large degree of oversubscription and flexibility. NVMe/PCIe/M.2 has eliminated most of the overhead of protocol conversion (e.g. SATA or USB) but mostly by removing itself and turning to fixed lane allocations: it's "genious" oversell of what's essentially less functionality for more money.

AMD IODs and Intel PCHs are still really powerful switch chips, that one should be able to cascade almost to no limit, but they don't sell separately (and almost never as a separate add-in board) while getting just the PCIe switch part of that from another vendor will cost you an arm and a leg with plenty of compatibility nightmares on top.

IMHO it's a sitation that makes very little technical sense and is purely driven by vendor commercial interests.

Yes, it's tempting to play around with these specialty boards, but only until you look at their prices. Bifurcation hardware can easily cost 1TB of NVMe storage already, anything with a switch is almost cheaper to repurchase as a bigger NVMe drive...
 
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Great. How do we get one? I don't read Chinese.

Hey there, even I can't read Chinese or any other Asian language(have to rely on translation), but like someone mentioned above, mostly likely you can grab these from any official Asian stores like AliExpress, Taobao, and other Chinese retailers, however, not all products might be shipped and imported easily to the US, UK or ROW.

It also depends on the seller sometimes. Some lesser know Chinese brands don't always keep their stock on these stores as well, but rather prefer to sell them through local channels, board forums, and other marketplaces.
 
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