News AMD-powered NUC appears to be in the works — Ryzen AI Max 395+ powered mini-PC spotted

[Admin]

Leaked customs documents show an Asus NUC powered by an AMD Strix Halo chip.

AMD-powered NUC appears to be in the works — Ryzen AI Max 395+ powered mini-PC spotted : Read more

 

[cknobman]

This is what I've been waiting for.
Will be instant buy when it comes out.

 

[decembermouse]

I've also been waiting for this. Want to build my own router and have been looking at passively-cooled mini PCs with two gigabit whether ports, built around the N1XX series, but there aren't many compelling options. This would be a step up. I'll wait for a passive build though.

What would be even better, and I don't think this exists, is a Ryzen AI MAX APU designed for low-power operation. The lowest-power AI APU, the Ryzen AI 5 340, has a 28W TDP. Compared to the N100's 6W TDP, does AMD have a competitor chip that can be used in this space? The days of the C-50 are long gone.

 

[MobileJAD]

I've also been waiting for this. Want to build my own router and have been looking at passively-cooled mini PCs with two gigabit whether ports, built around the N1XX series, but there aren't many compelling options. This would be a step up. I'll wait for a passive build though.

What would be even better, and I don't think this exists, is a Ryzen AI MAX APU designed for low-power operation. The lowest-power AI APU, the Ryzen AI 5 340, has a 28W TDP. Compared to the N100's 6W TDP, does AMD have a competitor chip that can be used in this space? The days of the C-50 are long gone.

Ok I am curious what led you to desire a AMD APU with a NPU to use as a router? These types of CPUs are normally used for multimedia or gaming setups, there is a endless list of lower powered, cheaper and less technologically advanced CPUs, to include the Raspberry Pi or even 32bit processors dating back to the first Intel Pentiums that can be used as routers.
Mind you I am asking because whenever I need a router at home I will build one with whatever spare CPU and motherboard I have that I can trust to leave running 24/7 without worrying about it crashing. I always opt for using a PC as a router because I can customize OS and router settings to whatever I like and I prefer having USB and some form of video out so I can attach a USB keyboard and mouse and a monitor or a TV for direct access to the system itself. Normally people love to remote into routers, but call me crazy, I would rather just use it directly.
I am still curious though, do you want to use a processor that has a NPU included so you can use some sort of software on the router that uses AI features? AI enabled filtering or intrusion detection maybe?

 

[DS426]

...

What would be even better, and I don't think this exists, is a Ryzen AI MAX APU designed for low-power operation. The lowest-power AI APU, the Ryzen AI 5 340, has a 28W TDP. Compared to the N100's 6W TDP, does AMD have a competitor chip that can be used in this space? The days of the C-50 are long gone.

A few of the Ryzen AI 300 series have a cTDP (configurable TDP) as low as 15W, such as the AI 5 340, so that puts them closer to your 6W figure. It's just a matter of who implements that on what.

 

[DS426]

Funny as I recently commented on ASUS not having an AMD-powered "NUC" at a time when Minisforum and others are seeing strong sales success on AMD mini PC's. I applaud the move as a broader hardware ecosystem is needed -- x86 or not.

 

[Pemalite]

I miss the compute stick form factor.
Just plug your computer into a HDMI slot and.... Go.

I just setup my old compute stick with an Atom Z8330, 2GB of Ram as an information panel at the fire station... But would absolutely buy another in a heartbeat if it had more Ram for Win11.

 

[usertests]

This is what I've been waiting for.
Will be instant buy when it comes out.

But at what price? And RAM amount (32/64/128 GB)

I miss the compute stick form factor.
Just plug your computer into a HDMI slot and.... Go.

I just setup my old compute stick with an Atom Z8330, 2GB of Ram as an information panel at the fire station... But would absolutely buy another in a heartbeat if it had more Ram for Win11.

You're not getting a >100W TDP chip in the stick form factor. Bit of a non sequitur here.

There are stick-like devices, usually very chunky but somewhat qualifying, that carry the Intel N100 and a lot more RAM. Such as the MeLE PCG02 Pro. You could probably fit it where it needs to go with an HDMI extender, which may even be included for some of these.

Also consider a small mini PC with VESA mount on the back of a TV if possible.

 

[Quirkz]

This is what I've been waiting for.
Will be instant buy when it comes out.

Did you know there are plenty of manufacturers like beelink, minisforum, etc, already producing great NUC style devices that feature AMD chips? NUC is just a brand name at this point.

I've got one on my desk, in fact.,

 

[KyaraM]

This is what I've been waiting for.
Will be instant buy when it comes out.

Even if it cost 2000+ bucks? Because, let's be honest, this isn't worth 2000 bucks. For 800 to 1000, sure. That's what laptops with a 4060 in it cost, and this is about the same performance, maybe a little less (yes, a mid- to full-powered 4060 mobile can beat a power-starved 4070 mobile, they are that close). Anything more and it's not worth your money, period.

Did you know there are plenty of manufacturers like beelink, minisforum, etc, already producing great NUC style devices that feature AMD chips? NUC is just a brand name at this point.

I've got one on my desk, in fact.,

I got one from Beelink, too, for about 2 years or so now. Nice little machine, and a 5700U is absolutely enough for everyone who doesn't need a dGPU. I use it with my 3D printer to slice models etc, and things I don't want to use my other systems for for whatever reason. It's separated from the rest of the network in case something goes wrong. I was cheap, too, for under $300. Yesterday I have seen they also make mITX boards with mobile chips and a GPU slot nowadays; they usually feature the Ryzen 9 7945HX iirc, and two SSD slots. In the case of Minisforum, even up to PCIE 5x16, which is pretty cool. Minisforum also has a gaming mini with a 6600M in it.

 

[cknobman]

Did you know there are plenty of manufacturers like beelink, minisforum, etc, already producing great NUC style devices that feature AMD chips? NUC is just a brand name at this point.

I've got one on my desk, in fact.,

Yes and I've almost bought one.
But I'm specifically waiting for this Strix Halo with the 40 compute units.
I'm tired of buying graphics cards and Strix Halo will finally push integrated graphics far enough to compete with full tier desktop graphics cards.

 

[decembermouse]

Ok I am curious what led you to desire a AMD APU with a NPU to use as a router? These types of CPUs are normally used for multimedia or gaming setups, there is a endless list of lower powered, cheaper and less technologically advanced CPUs, to include the Raspberry Pi or even 32bit processors dating back to the first Intel Pentiums that can be used as routers.
Mind you I am asking because whenever I need a router at home I will build one with whatever spare CPU and motherboard I have that I can trust to leave running 24/7 without worrying about it crashing. I always opt for using a PC as a router because I can customize OS and router settings to whatever I like and I prefer having USB and some form of video out so I can attach a USB keyboard and mouse and a monitor or a TV for direct access to the system itself. Normally people love to remote into routers, but call me crazy, I would rather just use it directly.
I am still curious though, do you want to use a processor that has a NPU included so you can use some sort of software on the router that uses AI features? AI enabled filtering or intrusion detection maybe?

Yeah, so great question. AI is one of those things that many of us still don't have a great handle on exactly how or when possessing our own dedicated AI chip will benefit us, but I have to figure that with news of impending AI-based internet security threats, a good way to counteract them will as you suggest be by having an AI-based defense solution. At some point pfSense / OPNsense is sure to include options for different options for integrated AI models.

We don't know how long that will take, though, and I do expect to wait a bit. Maybe another generation or half generation, as far as CPUs/APUs are concerned. For the time being I plan to keep an eye on the options, and my hope is that now that AMD appears to be entering the NUC ring with Intel, that we will see some very low-power chips meant to compete with Intel's N1XX / N2XX series, but with an added AI chip. AI will eventually become part of much of what we do, and while I don't think I have a reason to buy a laptop or desktop with an integrated AI chip just yet, I do plan to buy one whenever it makes sense to build a secure router solution around the tech.

But we'll see how AMD scales its chips to compete in the super low-wattage segment. As long as the AI chip itself doesn't require too much power, they should be able to pair it with cut-down Ryzen cores without raising the power envelope too much... and as always, my hope is for passively cooled!

 

[decembermouse]

Did you know there are plenty of manufacturers like beelink, minisforum, etc, already producing great NUC style devices that feature AMD chips? NUC is just a brand name at this point.

I've got one on my desk, in fact.,

Which one are you using and how satisfied are you with it? I also have a Ryzen-based mini PC in this category, albeit with just one Gigabit Ethernet port. I use it for a game server. Ideally for a router I'd like one with two or more Ethernet ports based on an APU with a low enough power draw that it can run fanless.

 

[decembermouse]

A few of the Ryzen AI 300 series have a cTDP (configurable TDP) as low as 15W, such as the AI 5 340, so that puts them closer to your 6W figure. It's just a matter of who implements that on what.

Good catch! I visited the spec page for that chip and noticed the 28W TDP, but didn't look for the cTDP. 15W should be feasible to passively cool, with a beefy enough heatsink. I hope we see more cases like this soon. We're at the point now where a good portion of basic consumer computing should be doable using passive cooling, but instead we keep seeing these cheap HSF setups from all manufacturers instead, presumably because validating passively-cooled systems would be a big step and expense for any manufacturer. This becoming the norm can't come soon enough!

ASUS recently unveiled this system, which shows on their global website but doesn't appear to be available in the U.S. (yet?), and I can't find pricing info. At the right price, a box like this would be perfect. Side note: I'd like to see mini PCs adopt USB-C PD as a power source standard.

 

[Quirkz]

Minisforum also has a gaming mini with a 6600M in it.

I was very tempted by that one late last year when they had it one sale In the end I figured I don't need another gaming device, and got the brilliant little 890 pro, and slapped a mountain of RAM in it. IT's an insanely performant little machine, and has Oculink, for if I did want to add a GPU in the future.

 

[Quirkz]

Yes and I've almost bought one.
But I'm specifically waiting for this Strix Halo with the 40 compute units.
I'm tired of buying graphics cards and Strix Halo will finally push integrated graphics far enough to compete with full tier desktop graphics cards.

I'm really interested in seeing legitimate reviews, as the numbers AMD are pushing currently suggest laptop 4070 level performance: which would be insane for an APU, and more than enough for most gaming.

 

[Quirkz]

Yeah, so great question. AI is one of those things that many of us still don't have a great handle on exactly how or when possessing our own dedicated AI chip will benefit us, but I have to figure that with news of impending AI-based internet security threats, a good way to counteract them will as you suggest be by having an AI-based defense solution. At some point pfSense / OPNsense is sure to include options for different options for integrated AI models.

We don't know how long that will take, though, and I do expect to wait a bit. Maybe another generation or half generation, as far as CPUs/APUs are concerned. For the time being I plan to keep an eye on the options, and my hope is that now that AMD appears to be entering the NUC ring with Intel, that we will see some very low-power chips meant to compete with Intel's N1XX / N2XX series, but with an added AI chip. AI will eventually become part of much of what we do, and while I don't think I have a reason to buy a laptop or desktop with an integrated AI chip just yet, I do plan to buy one whenever it makes sense to build a secure router solution around the tech.

But we'll see how AMD scales its chips to compete in the super low-wattage segment. As long as the AI chip itself doesn't require too much power, they should be able to pair it with cut-down Ryzen cores without raising the power envelope too much... and as always, my hope is for passively cooled!

It took a bit of work, but I got the 780 built in GPU running for AI tasks, and it ran surprisingly well, even without the benefit of using the NPU. Already has all the performance most of us need for most AI models, apart from the giant LLMs.

 

[Quirkz]

Which one are you using and how satisfied are you with it? I also have a Ryzen-based mini PC in this category, albeit with just one Gigabit Ethernet port. I use it for a game server. Ideally for a router I'd like one with two or more Ethernet ports based on an APU with a low enough power draw that it can run fanless.

I got the brilliant little minisforum 890 pro, and slapped a mountain of RAM in it. IT's an insanely performant little machine, and has Oculink, for if I did want to add a GPU in the future.

The price I paid was just silly, in a good way. Cheap for something with that much CPU, slots, ports, MB, power supply, cooling, all built in. IT's a great time for NUC style machines.

And yes, I'm very satisfied. Running linux on it. Installed a couple games out of curiousity, and they ran well enough, if you turned down details. I mean, it's basically the same chip as running in the ROG Ally and Legion Go..

It even has 2 ethernet ports, so could be used as a router - though I haven't tried.

It has a built in fan, so isn't fanless, but the fan is very quiet. Though since it's the 8 core CPU, it's not one you'd want to run without a fan.

 

[KyaraM]

I was very tempted by that one late last year when they had it one sale In the end I figured I don't need another gaming device, and got the brilliant little 890 pro, and slapped a mountain of RAM in it. IT's an insanely performant little machine, and has Oculink, for if I did want to add a GPU in the future.

I eyed it, too, but also figured I don't need it (got a desktop with a 4070Ti and a laptop with a 4060 for when I'm not home, that's more than enough gaming power already). The Oculink system also gives you the flexibility of choosing your own GPU, something the mini (and my laptop) doesn't allow. Though there are gaming minis with upgradeable laptop GPUs.

I'm really interested in seeing legitimate reviews, as the numbers AMD are pushing currently suggest laptop 4070 level performance: which would be insane for an APU, and more than enough for most gaming.

A 4070 limited to 60W, which is the important detail here. That card loses about 20 FPS average performance in gaming benchmarks compared to 100W. That's not insignificant. In fact, it's enough performance that the mobile 4060 is suddenly faster, provided it is allowed to run at 90-100W. And only Borderlands, which iirc prefers AMD(?), runs that much better. It will also need a decent amount of RAM to not strangle either CPU or GPU performance, and from what I have seen so it seems RAM will be soldered and not expandable, so you are stuck with what you have and better pray you find an affordable system with 32GB minimum. It's incredible that iGPUs got this far now, but the limitations are there, and the benchmark is kinda disingenuous.

 

[Quirkz]

A 4070 limited to 60W, which is the important detail here. That card loses about 20 FPS average performance in gaming benchmarks compared to 100W. That's not insignificant. In fact, it's enough performance that the mobile 4060 is suddenly faster, provided it is allowed to run at 90-100W. And only Borderlands, which iirc prefers AMD(?), runs that much better. It will also need a decent amount of RAM to not strangle either CPU or GPU performance, and from what I have seen so it seems RAM will be soldered and not expandable, so you are stuck with what you have and better pray you find an affordable system with 32GB minimum. It's incredible that iGPUs got this far now, but the limitations are there, and the benchmark is kinda disingenuous.

Sure.
But the AMD APU was also limited to the same power budget.

And I'm most interested in the performance at these low power budgets.
You're not getting a quiet NUC sized device if you need 100W just for the GPU!

 

[KyaraM]

Sure.
But the AMD APU was also limited to the same power budget.

And I'm most interested in the performance at these low power budgets.
You're not getting a quiet NUC sized device if you need 100W just for the GPU!

Then consider this. I don't know what they did, but those results are utter bulls. I don't own all the games in the list, just FFXIV and BG3. Of those two, only FFXIV is installed on the laptop currently, it only has very limited storage and I unfortunately damaged the screws the SSD is secured with so I can’t expand it... anyways.

I tested FFXIV on the laptop yesterday. It has a 140W 3060, but usually in Final the consumption is closer to 80W. 1080p, like in the "benchmark" AMD put out, everything at max. I assume they were running the actual FFXIV Dawntrail benchmark anyone can download without owning the game. In their test, the 4070 supposedly only had 81 FPS with high settings. I don't know if they mean high preset or maximum, it doesn't matter either way because even a hobbled 4070 should be quite a bit closer to my 111 average FPS, 118 when I overclock the GPU (90W consumption). The difference between a 65W 4070 and a 4060 that can effectively as much as it needs is literally a single FPS, not almost 30%. In fact Jarrod's Tech showed that the 4070 should be essentially the same as that 4060, yet it isn't. There is something off.

It's great you are fine with that performance, but my argument stands that this is not a real comparison, and even that one weird result throws the truth of all these benchmarksinto questionfor me. Plus, 100W are hardly a lot, and a good laptop would have an eco mode with reduced wattage for battery if for whatever weird reason you insist on gaming on battery.

 

[Quirkz]

It's great you are fine with that performance, but my argument stands that this is not a real comparison, and even that one weird result throws the truth of all these benchmarksinto questionfor me. Plus, 100W are hardly a lot, and a good laptop would have an eco mode with reduced wattage for battery if for whatever weird reason you insist on gaming on battery.

Oh, I'm absolutely taking this with a grain of salt until we see real benchmarks from real reviewers, but I'm cautiously optimistic.

What you're missing here with the benchmarks, is that they were very explicit about the device: An Asus flow z13 - A light gaming tablet (which was excellent, I had one a couple years back) limited strongly in TDP by the form factor.

And this unified architecture APU matches a CPU+discrete GPU combo here under those TDP/cooling limited conditions.
ie, small, compact devices like tiny gaming laptops and NUCs.

And that's awesome. The theoretical performance of the 4070 at max TDP is kind of irrelevant. The performance you get under conditions where you use 90 watts just on the GPU is not an interesting comparison., since this is looking at a scenario when GPU+CPU combined is less than that!

So we're looking at possibly similar total device efficiency (CPU+GPU). If that's the same, then the next really important thing is: *price*

The hope is that the APU can deliver that performance and efficiency at a lower price point.
If it can?

This is an absolute winner for compact casual gaming. A device the size of a my NUC, running relatively cool, delivering somewhere high end 4060 performance at a lower TDP? Yes, please!

Especially exciting given the complete disappointment of NVidias 50 series when it comes to performance per watt improvements.