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[citation][nom]mikenygmail[/nom]Maybe you should try not making baseless assumptions. Nvidia's graphics cards are overpriced and weaker than AMD's at just about every possible price point. The GTX 550 Ti is a failure, and as you pointed out yourself, even this new AMD HTPC offering offers solid competition for the GT430. It was totally ridiculous for tomshardware to post the "Best Graphics Card for the Money" article the day before the AMD 6990 article, (to exclude AMD's new flag ship card) and then even more ridiculous to title the article "AMD Radeon HD 6990 4 GB Review: Antilles Makes (Too Much) Noise." This site obviously favors Nvidia and is paid well to do so, I'm just leveling the playing field a bit.Also, don't use "lol" and limit your "..." usage, it makes you look bad.[/citation]
Ignore the troll people and he'll go away.
Ignore the troll people and he'll go away.
Would this be a good video card for Flight Sim? I don't think it needs 3D performance, probably more 2D. This is for my 11 year old nephew on an E5700 Win7.
dragonsqrrl
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[citation][nom]mikenygmail[/nom]Maybe you should try not making baseless assumptions.[/citation]
You're asking me to stop making "baseless assumptions” when you're the very one who did so in your opening comment? Way to be a hypocrite and a blatant fanboy. You say AMD is destroying "Nvidia in every possible way", and that they'll soon be doing the same to Intel, without any further information to legitimize or backup your claims.
[citation][nom]mikenygmail[/nom]Nvidia's graphics cards are overpriced and weaker than AMD's at just about every possible price point.[/citation]
I'm not sure what you're talking about here, but again it seems like you're the one making the "baseless assumptions" and bustin out the hypocrisy, I think I'm sensing a trend here. The GTX570 is priced appropriately against the HD6970, their MSRP's being $350 and $370 respectively, and for the most part NewEgg pricing seems to reflect this price discrepancy. The absolute lowest price for the GTX570 on NewEgg is $290 with rebate while the HD6970 is $315 with rebate.
The GTX560Ti is priced appropriately against the HD6950 1GB, their MSRP's being $250 and $260 respectively, and again NewEgg pricing seems to reflect this price discrepancy. The absolute lowest price on NewEgg for the GTX560Ti is $205 with rebate while the HD6950 1GB is $215 with rebate. And I don't know if you realized this, but for these two key price points, it's been AMD pricing and adjusting their cards against Nvidia's this generation. This was the case for the GTX570/HD6970, and the GTX560Ti/HD6870/HD6950 1GB.
There is no direct competition for the GTX580, and the GTX590 is priced appropriately against the HD6990, both having a $700 MSRP, with the GTX590 being priced lower on average off Newegg. In fact with the exception of the GTX550Ti, every other competing card from Nvidia has been priced appropriately from launch, but even the GTX550Ti has been readjusted, the average price on NewEgg now sitting around $130, probably were it should've been to start.
[citation][nom]mikenygmail[/nom]and as you pointed out yourself, even this new AMD HTPC offering offers solid competition for the GT430.[/citation]
Okay… yes I did say that. And your point being? If you reread my comment I referred specifically to HTPC performance when I said that. And although I don’t think game performance is very important at this price point, the GT430 still manages to consistently outperform the HD6450 by a pretty wide margin, and as the reviewer states in his conclusion this coupled with their close price proximity makes the HD6450 a difficult option to recommend. I’m really not sure how this helps your argument or hurts mine, so I guess I should just consider this portion of your comment a null filler.
[citation][nom]mikenygmail[/nom]It was totally ridiculous for tomshardware to post the "Best Graphics Card for the Money" article the day before the AMD 6990 article, (to exclude AMD's new flag ship card) and then even more ridiculous to title the article "AMD Radeon HD 6990 4 GB Review: Antilles Makes (Too Much) Noise." This site obviously favors Nvidia and is paid well to do so, I'm just leveling the playing field a bit. [/citation]
So because the conclusions of these reviews don’t fit your ‘agenda’, Tom’s must be biased, illegitimate, and bought out by Nvidia. Your arguments seem to be getting weaker and weaker with each passing sentence my friend. You’d be hard-pressed to even get on the playing field, much less even it out. I don’t know which other tech sites you frequent (Semi Accurate by any chance?), but Tom’s is pretty broadly considered one of the most legitimate sources out there. And like Tom’s, many other reviews came to the conclusion that on average the GTX590 performs on par with the HD6990. For example:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/picture/?src=/images/video/geforce-gtx-590/zfulltable.png
Performance being relatively similar, the deciding factor for Tom’s came down to the design of the stock cooler, which is obviously superior on the GTX590. Other sites didn’t feel this was as important.
I'm just amazed sometimes at what the legion of AMD fanboys circulating Tom's are able to get away with, despite how often some are thoroughly shutdown. Self-respect and credibility are thrown out the door, and double standard really becomes the key word when attempting to define your arguments. You don't think it's at all ironic that you of all people should be the one throwing around accusations of bias and favoritism? Now with all the arguments I’ve made, I'm certainly not trying to claim that Nvidia is "destroying" AMD. All I'm trying to do is counter your claim that AMD is "destroying" Nvidia, and I think from any level headed perspective it’s pretty obvious that this isn’t the case.
[citation][nom]mikenygmail[/nom]Also, don't use "lol" and limit your "..." usage, it makes you look bad. [/citation]
I apologize, but “lol” just seemed really appropriate when responding to your comment. You seem to spend a lot of time scrutinizing other people’s comments without spending much time considering the logic behind your own, and I don’t think I have to explain how bad you look or the irony behind your last suggestion, anymore then I already have.
You're asking me to stop making "baseless assumptions” when you're the very one who did so in your opening comment? Way to be a hypocrite and a blatant fanboy. You say AMD is destroying "Nvidia in every possible way", and that they'll soon be doing the same to Intel, without any further information to legitimize or backup your claims.
[citation][nom]mikenygmail[/nom]Nvidia's graphics cards are overpriced and weaker than AMD's at just about every possible price point.[/citation]
I'm not sure what you're talking about here, but again it seems like you're the one making the "baseless assumptions" and bustin out the hypocrisy, I think I'm sensing a trend here. The GTX570 is priced appropriately against the HD6970, their MSRP's being $350 and $370 respectively, and for the most part NewEgg pricing seems to reflect this price discrepancy. The absolute lowest price for the GTX570 on NewEgg is $290 with rebate while the HD6970 is $315 with rebate.
The GTX560Ti is priced appropriately against the HD6950 1GB, their MSRP's being $250 and $260 respectively, and again NewEgg pricing seems to reflect this price discrepancy. The absolute lowest price on NewEgg for the GTX560Ti is $205 with rebate while the HD6950 1GB is $215 with rebate. And I don't know if you realized this, but for these two key price points, it's been AMD pricing and adjusting their cards against Nvidia's this generation. This was the case for the GTX570/HD6970, and the GTX560Ti/HD6870/HD6950 1GB.
There is no direct competition for the GTX580, and the GTX590 is priced appropriately against the HD6990, both having a $700 MSRP, with the GTX590 being priced lower on average off Newegg. In fact with the exception of the GTX550Ti, every other competing card from Nvidia has been priced appropriately from launch, but even the GTX550Ti has been readjusted, the average price on NewEgg now sitting around $130, probably were it should've been to start.
[citation][nom]mikenygmail[/nom]and as you pointed out yourself, even this new AMD HTPC offering offers solid competition for the GT430.[/citation]
Okay… yes I did say that. And your point being? If you reread my comment I referred specifically to HTPC performance when I said that. And although I don’t think game performance is very important at this price point, the GT430 still manages to consistently outperform the HD6450 by a pretty wide margin, and as the reviewer states in his conclusion this coupled with their close price proximity makes the HD6450 a difficult option to recommend. I’m really not sure how this helps your argument or hurts mine, so I guess I should just consider this portion of your comment a null filler.
[citation][nom]mikenygmail[/nom]It was totally ridiculous for tomshardware to post the "Best Graphics Card for the Money" article the day before the AMD 6990 article, (to exclude AMD's new flag ship card) and then even more ridiculous to title the article "AMD Radeon HD 6990 4 GB Review: Antilles Makes (Too Much) Noise." This site obviously favors Nvidia and is paid well to do so, I'm just leveling the playing field a bit. [/citation]
So because the conclusions of these reviews don’t fit your ‘agenda’, Tom’s must be biased, illegitimate, and bought out by Nvidia. Your arguments seem to be getting weaker and weaker with each passing sentence my friend. You’d be hard-pressed to even get on the playing field, much less even it out. I don’t know which other tech sites you frequent (Semi Accurate by any chance?), but Tom’s is pretty broadly considered one of the most legitimate sources out there. And like Tom’s, many other reviews came to the conclusion that on average the GTX590 performs on par with the HD6990. For example:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/picture/?src=/images/video/geforce-gtx-590/zfulltable.png
Performance being relatively similar, the deciding factor for Tom’s came down to the design of the stock cooler, which is obviously superior on the GTX590. Other sites didn’t feel this was as important.
I'm just amazed sometimes at what the legion of AMD fanboys circulating Tom's are able to get away with, despite how often some are thoroughly shutdown. Self-respect and credibility are thrown out the door, and double standard really becomes the key word when attempting to define your arguments. You don't think it's at all ironic that you of all people should be the one throwing around accusations of bias and favoritism? Now with all the arguments I’ve made, I'm certainly not trying to claim that Nvidia is "destroying" AMD. All I'm trying to do is counter your claim that AMD is "destroying" Nvidia, and I think from any level headed perspective it’s pretty obvious that this isn’t the case.
[citation][nom]mikenygmail[/nom]Also, don't use "lol" and limit your "..." usage, it makes you look bad. [/citation]
I apologize, but “lol” just seemed really appropriate when responding to your comment. You seem to spend a lot of time scrutinizing other people’s comments without spending much time considering the logic behind your own, and I don’t think I have to explain how bad you look or the irony behind your last suggestion, anymore then I already have.
dragonsqrrl
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[citation][nom]Bilfred[/nom]+1 dragonsqrrl FTWAnd for the record, I'm an AMD fan. But mikenygmail is making us look bad.[/citation]
There's a definite distinction between being a fan and a fanboy. Everyone has their preferences, fanboy's are just unusually ignorant and flamboyant about them. Trollish inflammatory comments are usually a good way to tell.
There's a definite distinction between being a fan and a fanboy. Everyone has their preferences, fanboy's are just unusually ignorant and flamboyant about them. Trollish inflammatory comments are usually a good way to tell.
Nintendork
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- Dec 22, 2008
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AMD low end Llano (dual core) comes with 160SP / HD6410.
AMD high end Llano (quad core) comes with the 400SP / HD6550.
AMD high end Llano (quad core) comes with the 400SP / HD6550.
Nintendork
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Nintendork
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Enough of this tom:
Put the HD5570 in that chart. Is nvidia bribing you so much to prevent they downfall?
Put the HD5570 in that chart. Is nvidia bribing you so much to prevent they downfall?
mikenygmail
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I'm not an Nvidia or AMD "fan," I just get the best deals available at any given time and I love the competition between these two companies which results in better prices for all of us. I haven't upgraded for a while and in fact all of my current gaming video cards are made by Nvidia, coincidentally. As stated previously, I'm just levelling the playing field. The last AMD gaming card I had was a 9800 pro but I may buy an AMD 6950 2 GB or 6990. If the situation was reversed and the GTX 590 had been bashed and left out of the Graphics Card Hierarchy Chart unjustly, I'd defend Nvidia just as I'm defending AMD.
I accept your apology and sorry, I didn't mean to hurt your feelings dragongsqueel. Rather than engaging in trolling, attempting to get people to finish my sentences or any other mindless exchanges of insults and/or assumptions, I'm just going to say thanks for your posts and have a good day.
Oh, and good job cutting down on the ...'s and lol's, you are making progress!
I accept your apology and sorry, I didn't mean to hurt your feelings dragongsqueel. Rather than engaging in trolling, attempting to get people to finish my sentences or any other mindless exchanges of insults and/or assumptions, I'm just going to say thanks for your posts and have a good day.
Oh, and good job cutting down on the ...'s and lol's, you are making progress!
retirepresident
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- Dec 16, 2009
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I was expecting smaller then TSMC 40nm I'll wait until HD 7000 came out.
HD 5450,going to see four big changes for the 6450:
Better performance due to higher clockspeeds and more functional units
Improved tessellation engine
New display controllers
UVD3
GDDR5
HD 5450,going to see four big changes for the 6450:
Better performance due to higher clockspeeds and more functional units
Improved tessellation engine
New display controllers
UVD3
GDDR5
SteelCity1981
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Well who would really want to play a 3D Blu-Ray movie in a window intead of full screen anyhow lol.
If only these had 128bit memory with GDD5 this thing would be a budget gaming gem!
- Dec 2, 2009
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Ok for an HTPC card there are 2 things missing, benchmarks at 1080 and does this card pass audio over HDMI?
Most of us know there sometimes is a performance hit at 1050 because its not divisibe by 8 so why skip 1080 for those who would actually be using this in their HTPC?
As for audio, I don't like to assume and there isn't an input jack on the reference card; for me audio over HDMI is a must have. A 20' audio wire is out of the question.
Most of us know there sometimes is a performance hit at 1050 because its not divisibe by 8 so why skip 1080 for those who would actually be using this in their HTPC?
As for audio, I don't like to assume and there isn't an input jack on the reference card; for me audio over HDMI is a must have. A 20' audio wire is out of the question.
@ mikenygmail:"I'm not an Nvidia or AMD "fan," I just get the best deals available at any given time and I love the competition between these two companies which results in better prices for all of us"
Mikey, my lad, until this post, you exhibited 100% of the characteristics of the worst AMD fanbois. (same ones apply to the worst nVidia or Intel fanbois, too)
You claimed TH is bribed by nVidia. You claimed AMD is destroying nvidia. etc, etc. You made outrageous accusations, out-and-out untrue claims, and you had the gall to chide dragonsqrrl for using 'lol' and such.
Some of what you were doing was well worthy of a few snide and sardonic rotflols and other acronyms.
Note that I have no dog in this fight. But my opinion, fwiw, is that right now AMD's ahead of nVidia in performance-for-the buck. I don't pay much attention to the low-end stuff, though I read the reviews; I pay more to the top-of-the-line, but my real interest is the one or two tiers just below the flagships. Those are the cards I'm likely to buy. Last time I was buying, I went a bit more toward midlevel with a couple of 5770s--one for me, one for the GF's machine. At this point, I'm looking for a value in the nVidia line, simply because the recreational time I spend on the computer these days involves a program which has issues with the AMD drivers (or hardware, but I think it's drivers). Weren't for that issue, I'd be looking long and hard at the 6950, hoping to unlock it to 6970. As is? I'm waiting--in part 'cause of finances (gf and I just bought a house).
Anyway--PLEASE try to make sense, else we'll all be laughing at, and not with, you.
Mikey, my lad, until this post, you exhibited 100% of the characteristics of the worst AMD fanbois. (same ones apply to the worst nVidia or Intel fanbois, too)
You claimed TH is bribed by nVidia. You claimed AMD is destroying nvidia. etc, etc. You made outrageous accusations, out-and-out untrue claims, and you had the gall to chide dragonsqrrl for using 'lol' and such.
Some of what you were doing was well worthy of a few snide and sardonic rotflols and other acronyms.
Note that I have no dog in this fight. But my opinion, fwiw, is that right now AMD's ahead of nVidia in performance-for-the buck. I don't pay much attention to the low-end stuff, though I read the reviews; I pay more to the top-of-the-line, but my real interest is the one or two tiers just below the flagships. Those are the cards I'm likely to buy. Last time I was buying, I went a bit more toward midlevel with a couple of 5770s--one for me, one for the GF's machine. At this point, I'm looking for a value in the nVidia line, simply because the recreational time I spend on the computer these days involves a program which has issues with the AMD drivers (or hardware, but I think it's drivers). Weren't for that issue, I'd be looking long and hard at the 6950, hoping to unlock it to 6970. As is? I'm waiting--in part 'cause of finances (gf and I just bought a house).
Anyway--PLEASE try to make sense, else we'll all be laughing at, and not with, you.
mikenygmail
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- Aug 29, 2009
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[citation][nom]pixel13[/nom]@ mikenygmail:"I'm not an Nvidia or AMD "fan," I just get the best deals available at any given time and I love the competition between these two companies which results in better prices for all of us"Mikey, my lad, until this post, you exhibited 100% of the characteristics of the worst AMD fanbois. (same ones apply to the worst nVidia or Intel fanbois, too)You claimed TH is bribed by nVidia. You claimed AMD is destroying nvidia. etc, etc. You made outrageous accusations, out-and-out untrue claims, and you had the gall to chide dragonsqrrl for using 'lol' and such.Some of what you were doing was well worthy of a few snide and sardonic rotflols and other acronyms. Note that I have no dog in this fight. But my opinion, fwiw, is that right now AMD's ahead of nVidia in performance-for-the buck. I don't pay much attention to the low-end stuff, though I read the reviews; I pay more to the top-of-the-line, but my real interest is the one or two tiers just below the flagships. Those are the cards I'm likely to buy. Last time I was buying, I went a bit more toward midlevel with a couple of 5770s--one for me, one for the GF's machine. At this point, I'm looking for a value in the nVidia line, simply because the recreational time I spend on the computer these days involves a program which has issues with the AMD drivers (or hardware, but I think it's drivers). Weren't for that issue, I'd be looking long and hard at the 6950, hoping to unlock it to 6970. As is? I'm waiting--in part 'cause of finances (gf and I just bought a house).Anyway--PLEASE try to make mincemeat out of me, else we'll all be laughing at, and not with, me.[/citation]
Ok pixie boy, we'll all, along with everyone else in the world, try not to laugh too hard at you. Thank you for the sincere and well-deserved compliment about my sense of humor, it is appreciated.
Consider crossfiring those 5770's and get your "GF" a.k.a. "Big Bubba" a 4650 or something. (Only joking lil guy, you take care of your lil self)
Ok pixie boy, we'll all, along with everyone else in the world, try not to laugh too hard at you. Thank you for the sincere and well-deserved compliment about my sense of humor, it is appreciated.
Consider crossfiring those 5770's and get your "GF" a.k.a. "Big Bubba" a 4650 or something. (Only joking lil guy, you take care of your lil self)
[citation][nom]mikenygmail[/nom]I'm not an Nvidia or AMD "fan"[/citation]
[citation][nom]mikenygmail[/nom]"AMD is destroying Nvidia in every possible way, and it's only a matter of time before AMD catches up to and surpassed Intel again!"[/citation]
I'm not sure if there is a universe that exists where these two posts are logically compatible.
[citation][nom]mikenygmail[/nom]"AMD is destroying Nvidia in every possible way, and it's only a matter of time before AMD catches up to and surpassed Intel again!"[/citation]
I'm not sure if there is a universe that exists where these two posts are logically compatible.
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[citation][nom]popatim[/nom]Ok for an HTPC card there are 2 things missing, benchmarks at 1080 and does this card pass audio over HDMI?[/citation]
Benchmarks at 1080? Why? An HTPC card isn't made for playing games, and a low-end HTPC card like this will handle 720p at best. If the card can't handle gaming at 1680x1050, what would be the point of benching 1080p?
As far as bitstreaming HD audio over HDMI, yes, the Radeon HD 6000 series can do that.
Benchmarks at 1080? Why? An HTPC card isn't made for playing games, and a low-end HTPC card like this will handle 720p at best. If the card can't handle gaming at 1680x1050, what would be the point of benching 1080p?
As far as bitstreaming HD audio over HDMI, yes, the Radeon HD 6000 series can do that.
mikenygmail
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[citation][nom]Bilfred[/nom]I'm not sure if there is a universe that exists where these two posts are logically compatible.[/citation]
BillFreud, on the contrary, there may be unfinite parallel universes all around us where anything is possible, just as there appear to be infinite assumptions posted here.
As for AMD and Intel, historically they go back and forth as to who has the faster CPU's. Intel's CPU's are currently more powerful, but AMD's CPU's should catch up eventually and AMD's fusion APU's already deliver graphics horsepower that Intel cannot match.
I don't favor Intel or AMD, in fact most of my current CPU's are made by Intel. I'm typing on a keyboard connected to a computer with an Intel e8400 CPU. My newest CPU's include an AMD Phenom 2 X4, and Intel gave me a Q6700 a while back along with some other stuff.
BillFreud, on the contrary, there may be unfinite parallel universes all around us where anything is possible, just as there appear to be infinite assumptions posted here.
As for AMD and Intel, historically they go back and forth as to who has the faster CPU's. Intel's CPU's are currently more powerful, but AMD's CPU's should catch up eventually and AMD's fusion APU's already deliver graphics horsepower that Intel cannot match.
I don't favor Intel or AMD, in fact most of my current CPU's are made by Intel. I'm typing on a keyboard connected to a computer with an Intel e8400 CPU. My newest CPU's include an AMD Phenom 2 X4, and Intel gave me a Q6700 a while back along with some other stuff.
I am wondering if the majority readers of this feature have a system whose specs are as high as the benchmark one. Mine certainly isn't! I am also wondering if TH can do benchmark tests on a more mainstream, or lower-ended system, one that does not have such high-end CPU overclocked to such high frequency, less RAM, less power, stock cooling setup, and not such advanced MB? I think the scores will then be closer to real life setup. I understand that you did tests on high-end systems to avoid bottle-necking and to show the best results. However, can you at least consider doing tests on mainstream or lower-end systems in the future, TH? Or am I the minority here? Thanx for reading my comments, TH.
- Mar 7, 2003
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Hi happy,
In a review like this we're trying to show how graphics cards perform relative to one another, so we go out of our way to avoid a CPU bottleneck by using a fast platform. When comparing video cards, the object is to isolate the graphics subsystem as the variable--otherwise, we're showing what the CPU can do, not the graphics card. Similarly, when we test CPUs, we tend to use a high-end graphics card to avoid the reverse situation.
I understand the value of real-world results, but if you're curious how far your CPU can take things you're better off looking at a CPU review first to get a feel for that. Or, I suggest looking at whole system reviews like the system builder marathon.
Kind regards,
- Cleeve
mikenygmail
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Very good point Happy! Cleave, an easy way to accomplish this would be to first figure out an appropriate downclock, to make your powerful test system perform on par to say, a Phenom 2 X4 3.0 ghz system to represent more of what the average gamer here has. Obviously, different parts of the system such as RAM speed and motherboard would also come into play, but it would not be difficult to come up with an appropriate downclock to get a "ball park" idea of what the majority can do with whatever graphics card is being reviewed. Then, simply include these mainstream benchmarks in each graphics card review so that most of us will have a better idea of what our regular, non-high end systems can do.
mikenygmail
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AMD Phenom 2 X4 3.0 ghz = Core 2 Quad 2.7 ghz or equivalent, etc... just an average representation of what most here might have, those of us not running Core i5/i7 systems.
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