News AMD Reverses Course, Will Enable Zen 3 Support on B450 and X470 Motherboards

InvalidError

Titan
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Irreversible BIOS upgrade that sacrifices compatibility with most CPUs B450 was intended for to enable compatibility with Zen 2. This is going to get awkward on the used market and people who upgrade their 4000-series CPU from a 400-series to a 500-series motherboard and want to put their now unsupported old CPU back into the 400-series board.
 
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TCA_ChinChin

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Hey that's pretty good. That being said, I think the one way flash forward thing is not a deal breaker at all, provided that AMD can make sure the new AGESA and beta BIOS aren't worse in some way compared to previous versions. I'm curious to see how AMD keeps track of who specifically buys and owns a Zen 3 processor with the relevant B450/X470 motherboards.
 
Irreversible BIOS upgrade that sacrifices compatibility with most CPUs B450 was intended for to enable compatibility with Zen 2. This is going to get awkward on the used market and people who upgrade their 4000-series CPU from a 400-series to a 500-series motherboard and want to put their now unsupported old CPU back into the 400-series board.
Yes but as only enthusiast will do this, I think they realize the implications.

I have a nice system but it took me over 30 hours to plumb up and wire up with 2 radiators, and 9 case fans all RGB. I'm not in the mood to pull that motherboard and find one that has the exact specs I need, reinstall windows and my software + licenses just to upgrade the CPU. I'm willing to swap a CPU but that's it, especially on a dead end upgrade path. My time is more valuable than that.

I'm grateful AMD gives us the option. I can't fault AMD if the motherboard makers don't upgrade the ROMs though. There's little benefit for them to do this other than potential customer loyalty for future gens. (MSI certainly has earned it's community support wings for fighting for this with the MAX series)
 
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I don't understand why all this hype about BIOS. I mean, I know but there is simple solution. Most users do not know what BIOS is nor access it and other use BIOS few times in their lifetime. BIOS must be as simple as possible, no fancy and useless graphics no one uses. Every PC must boot with default settings and few most used settings should be available, eg RAID, XMP. Everything else needs to be an app or give user possibility to create his own fancy BIOS for specific CPU(s).
My bigger problem with BIOS (Gigabyte) is that almost every BIOS update destroys current settings and I must go thru every one and enable it. Loading stored setting does not work always.
Of course, BIOS update without CPU is mandatory and does not cost much - chip 3 cent microcontroller with USB stack.
 

daworstplaya

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This is great news! AMD actually listened to the enthusiasts and did what's right. As has been said, most generic users don't know what a BIOS is, let alone how to upgrade it. Those folks will never perform a CPU upgrade either so who cares about split compatibility. Those of us that know how to, we will upgrade the CPU and not look back at backwards CPU compatibility on the motherboard. The old CPU will probably be sold to a friend or given to a family member. This will help AMD sell more Ryzen 3 (Vermeer) CPUs and most importantly has created good will with the enthusiast community.
 

st379

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I wonder if the time just before intel 10th gen is a coincidence or it was planned all along.

Anyway it is good news to people who purchased the MAX motherboard for the purpose of upgrade.
 
What I'm curious about is how they will confirm you have a Zen 3 CPU before you update the BIOS?

Will AMD force you to submit the serial number on the chip? And then give you a key which you can use to unlock the upgrade process? I'm curious how this would work as the MB Vendors would have to add this extra validation step.
 

InvalidError

Titan
Moderator
As has been said, most generic users don't know what a BIOS is, let alone how to upgrade it. Those folks will never perform a CPU upgrade either so who cares about split compatibility.
Say that again 2-3 years down the road when these boards end up on the second-hand market. Many people are going to get screwed by the mix of boards that have and haven't been updated, can and cannot be downgraded. It'll be absolutely critical for sellers to accurately list the exact BIOS version that boards will be shipping with.
 
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Say that again 2-3 years down the road when these boards end up on the second-hand market. Many people are going to get screwed by the mix of boards that have and haven't been updated, can and cannot be downgraded. It'll be absolutely critical for sellers to accurately list the exact BIOS version that boards will be shipping with.
How big is the used board market? (Out of curiosity. I honestly don't know.)
 

InvalidError

Titan
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How big is the used board market? (Out of curiosity. I honestly don't know.)
Based on forum posts by people living in poorer countries, sounds like just about all of it in many cases. The APAC region is so desperate for cheap PCs that off-brand manufacturers make motherboards from recycled components because they cannot afford new sockets, chipsets and other major components.
 

Makaveli

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"AMD's updates also mark the end of the line for 400-series motherboards: AMD will not support future processors on the platform. The company also confirmed that Ryzen 4000 will land this year. "

The way this is written makes it sound like the 500 series will see cpu's after Zen 3.
 

waltc3

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Just do the smart thing and buy x570--or B550. Skip all of the hassle this will entail. Support for Z3 B450/X470 will come a good amount of time after the x570, B550 Zen 3 CPUS are launched and shipped, and bios support for Z3 AGESAs will always lag behind such support, just as they have with Zen 2 in pre-x570 mboards. But if AMD goes the forked bios route they are talking about--how does this not entail buying a new x470/B450 motherboard? What about PCIx4 mode support? If it does, then I cannot see a reason to want to do this at all. Just buy an x570/B550 mboard, instead.
 
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NightHawkRMX

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Why wouldn't this update be reversible on boards supporting bios flashback

I get it that you can't use a 3rd gen CPU to flash an older BIOS that doesn't support 3rd gen on it, but why couldn't you use it without any CPU inserted at all.
 

Jim90

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Say that again 2-3 years down the road when these boards end up on the second-hand market. Many people are going to get screwed by the mix of boards that have and haven't been updated, can and cannot be downgraded. It'll be absolutely critical for sellers to accurately list the exact BIOS version that boards will be shipping with.
"2-3 years down the road" Zen 3 will be considered an old CPU - at least two CPU releases will have occurred by then. That fact then, would essentially nullify such an issue i.e. the baseline would have shifted up to at least a Zen 3.
 

Math Geek

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just ordered a b450 board that happens to have dual BIOS. never really cared for nor needed such a thing but all of a sudden, it looks like maybe it'll come in handy down the line. that's assuming i'd ever upgrade to 4000 series when one gen is rarely worth the hassle from the one before it. most likely any upgrade will be a few generations down the line when a whole new platform is needed anyway.
 
Why wouldn't this update be reversible on boards supporting bios flashback

I get it that you can't use a 3rd gen CPU to flash an older BIOS that doesn't support 3rd gen on it, but why couldn't you use it without any CPU inserted at all.
Depends on motherboard. Most require a CPU in socket for a BIOS update. Others that don't use a special chip that cost more, and therefore it is more rare.
 
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"AMD's updates also mark the end of the line for 400-series motherboards: AMD will not support future processors on the platform. The company also confirmed that Ryzen 4000 will land this year. "

The way this is written makes it sound like the 500 series will see cpu's after Zen 3.
Probably not. Odds are that Zen 4 will be DDR5 so that will mean AM4 won't be the socket anymore.
 
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Just do the smart thing and buy x570--or B550. Skip all of the hassle this will entail. Support for Z3 B450/X470 will come a good amount of time after the x570, B550 Zen 3 CPUS are launched and shipped, and bios support for Z3 AGESAs will always lag behind such support, just as they have with Zen 2 in pre-x570 mboards. But if AMD goes the forked bios route they are talking about--how does this not entail buying a new x470/B450 motherboard? What about PCIx4 mode support? If it does, then I cannot see a reason to want to do this at all. Just buy an x570/B550 mboard, instead.
Like I previously said, I have spent 30 hours plumbing and wiring up my system. A motherboard swap would require me to redo hard tubing and pray that the motherboard has all the features I need. Also I would likely have to reinstall windows and licensed software installs. As I only have 2 license installs for my Corel software, and I used 2 already, I can't reinstall.
 

InvalidError

Titan
Moderator
The way this is written makes it sound like the 500 series will see cpu's after Zen 3.
There may be a Zen 3+ in 2021 since Zen 4 is only slated for 2022.

"2-3 years down the road" Zen 3 will be considered an old CPU - at least two CPU releases will have occurred by then. That fact then, would essentially nullify such an issue i.e. the baseline would have shifted up to at least a Zen 3.
Zen 3 may be considered "old news" in first-world countries, but it'll be brand new or even still unobtainable in poorer regions that either cannot afford current-gen tech or are under embargoes and basically can only afford or get their "new" tech from other countries' landfills
 
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Makaveli

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i'm aware that Zen 4 will be DDR5 and PCIe 5 for everyone posting that.

However my question really is will they make a version of Zen 3+/4 that will work only in 500 series chipset?

I find that statement odd since they should have just said AM4 socket but the say 400 series chipset.
 
i'm aware that Zen 4 will be DDR5 and PCIe 5 for everyone posting that.

However my question really is will they make a version of Zen 3+/4 that will work only in 500 series chipset?

I find that statement odd since they should have just said AM4 socket but the say 400 series chipset.
So you are wondering why not X370 B350?

I would imagine they need a unique AGESA BIOS for them?
 

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