Discussion AMD Ryzen 7000 “Zen 4” CPUs Listed Online by Canadian Retailer. *preliminary price*

[Metal Messiah.]

Hi,

Okay guys, it appears that AMD's upcoming Ryzen 7000 Desktop CPUs based on the "Zen 4 core" architecture have started appearing online at some retailers. All four CPUs were listed by a Canadian retailer, PC-Canada, with a preliminary price list. Currently it shows Out of Stock, which is obvious.

Though, I'm not sure why the retailer has posted these placeholder prices this early. These CPUs are not launching till mid of next month though.

Anyways, the prices were spotted by Momomo_US and list the AMD Ryzen 9 7950X, Ryzen 9 7900X, Ryzen 7 7700X, and the Ryzen 5 7600X processors in both Tray and Non-Cooler SKUs. Following are the chips along with their preliminary prices by the retailer, subject to change:

• AMD Ryzen 9 7950X (100-100000514/WOF) - $1158 / $1140 CAD ($892 US)
• AMD Ryzen 9 7900X (100-100000589/WOF) - $798 / $777 CAD ($608 US)
• AMD Ryzen 7 7700X (100-100000591/WOF) - $631 / $613 CAD ($480 US)
• AMD Ryzen 5 7600X (100-100000593/WOF) - $435/ $423 CAD ($330 US)

These prices are definitely on the higher side of the price bracket, but this is to be expected since we are looking at early listings. Though, according to some old previous rumors, especially the 8 and 6-core models might end up being cheaper than their predecessors, but the high-core count variants within the Ryzen 9 lineup may cost higher.

"Note that Canadian prices include anything between five and 15 percent sales tax and electronics and computer parts appear to be priced a fair bit higher in Canada than the US on average. As such, these prices should only be taken as an indication of what the retail price in Canada might end up being and not what the actual MSRP will land at, when AMD decides to launch these CPUs. Currently the retail date is expected to be on the 15th of September", via TPU.

Comparing the prices to the existing processors from the same retailer, the Ryzen 9 7950X is priced $158 CAD higher than the Ryzen 9 5950X. The Ryzen 9 7900X on the other hand is priced $13 CAD lower than the Ryzen 9 5900X, the Ryzen 7 7700X is priced $216 CAD higher than the Ryzen 7 5700X, and lastly the Ryzen 5 7600X is priced at $15 CAD lower than the Ryzen 5 5600X.

With that being said, we should definitely wait for an official confirmation from AMD, but we can at least expect some details on the 29th of August, 2022, when AMD will hopefully announce these processors.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558688473749393409

View: https://twitter.com/momomo_us/status/1558688473749393409

Source:

DirectDial Canada, via @momomo_us, PC-Canda

 

[CountMike]

Some of those price differences make no sense. proof in the pudding will be after Sept 15. recently payed €310 for 5800x to switch from 3700x which is €320. Difference from 5800x to 5900x is €50 and to 5950x is €150.

 

[Karadjgne]

Looks like Amd hasn't learned it's lesson regarding pricing so when squ's like the 7800x drop, there's no place to put them. Why buy a 7800x at C$700 when a 7900x is only C$70 more or a 7700x is C$70 less, being C$200 more than the 7600x.

Stupid gaps, again.

 

[alceryes]

We're getting closer!

Unfortunately, it looks like all of the initial launch boards will have 4 RAM slots. I'll never need more than 32GBs for this next build, and want the best possible overclocking, so I'm holding off until the enthusiast 2-slot boards become available. I've already purchased some of the components though. It's definitely happening - just not right on Sept 15th, if no 2-slot boards are available.

 

[Karadjgne]

Prolly find that 4 slots will OC better with DDR5 than 2 slots, just because DDR5 is affectively dual channel, dual rank per stick anyway. The only boards likely to use 2 ram slots will be mITX.

With 5 series Ryzens and DDR4 8Gb, they actually work better and faster using 4x sticks at 32Gb than with 2x sticks and 16Gb since most 8Gb sticks are single rank. Only 16Gb x2 at 32Gb is faster, since 16Gb sticks are all dual rank. So there's a definite affinity for dual rank with larger capacity.

DDR5 start at 16Gb. Won't be all that long before 64Gb becomes the norm, like 16Gb replaced 8Gb, which replaced 4Gb. 32Gb is going to be the minimum starting point the way 8Gb is the starting point now.

I believe your assumptions on never needing more than 32Gb are based primarily on current needs, but games have already shown an affinity for higher ram capacity, some as much as a year ago recommending 32Gb for best performance.

DDR4 is only keeping up mostly with DDR5 because DDR5 is ECC ram, so takes a performance hit right off the rip, not going to be long before cpu/mobo figure out the work around to that and start using ram slightly differently, the way Intel started using more cores once amd IPC equalled Intel cpus at far lower power requirements.

And game coders will be right behind with game engines built to maximize performance in bandwidth, rank, channel vrs capacity.

2x slots could very easily turn out to be a limiting factor, not an enhancement when it comes to OC, bandwidth, speeds etc in the near future.

 

[alceryes]

Prolly find that 4 slots will OC better with DDR5 than 2 slots, just because DDR5 is affectively dual channel, dual rank per stick anyway. The only boards likely to use 2 ram slots will be mITX.

It's not about the number of sticks or ranks but the motherboard memory traces.
Buildzoid has some great videos talking all about memory topology, channels, and ranks. Highly recommended.

Ramblings on memory layouts (1DPC vs. daisy chain vs. T-topology)

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vQwGGbW1AE


...and ramblings on memory channels and ranks.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tySToFdLV2g

I believe your assumptions on never needing more than 32Gb are based primarily on current needs, but games have already shown an affinity for higher ram capacity, some as much as a year ago recommending 32Gb for best performance.

Can you share the link to videos/articles showing games actually needing/running better on 32GBs vs 16GBs (without mods)? True about the memory modules. I may swap the 2x16GB modules out for 2x32s eventually, but that wouldn't be for at least 3-4 years.


Edit - Also, for those interested, here's his ramblings on DDR4 vs. DDR5. One of the interesting things found is that single rank DDR5 may actually give you optimal performance (vs. dual rank) if you don't need the extra memory capacity. All of these are very technical but Buildzoid does a decent job of breaking it down.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtGXAZznKSc

 

[Metal Messiah.]

Those are some cool videos on memory topology, channels, and ranks. Will watch it afterwards, since that's a pretty long video, and contains a lot of technical details as well.

 

[Karadjgne]

If you've ever seen buildzoid in a vid, you'd swear he's not much older than 14. But what he can do with ram, and his knowledge and intuition on its workings are nothing short of amazing.

Starwars Jedi: Fallen Order recommended 32Gb of ram, although runs just fine on 16Gb.
Microsoft Flight Simulator min recommended is 16Gb, ideal recommended is 32Gb.
Farcry6 with the HD texture pack recommended minimum of 16Gb, ideal 32Gb. The texture pack by itself can soak up 11Gb of ram, that's before any considerations for the rest of the game, windows, live streaming, discord etc.

32Gb is coming. It won't be long before DDR5 is standard and DDR4 is treated the same way DDR3 is now, yesterday's news. Once that happens, devs will be looking at engines that can take advantage of higher speed, higher capacity ram, where 16Gb means you only got 1 stick, so 32Gb will be the norm, with 64Gb treated the way 32Gb pc's are now.

View: https://youtu.be/AGux0pANft0
5000 series changed its memory controller enough to make a substantial difference vs 1000 to 3000 series, dunno what 7000 series or higher will do.

 

[TerryLaze]

Once that happens, devs will be looking at engines that can take advantage of higher speed, higher capacity ram, where 16Gb means you only got 1 stick, so 32Gb will be the norm, with 64Gb treated the way 32Gb pc's are now.

The only thing devs are looking at are consoles, anything more the PC gets are plugins the dev can cheaply buy to add on (AA, upscaling, what have you) , texture packs are platform agnostic.

 

[alceryes]

If you've ever seen buildzoid in a vid, you'd swear he's not much older than 14. But what he can do with ram, and his knowledge and intuition on its workings are nothing short of amazing.

Starwars Jedi: Fallen Order recommended 32Gb of ram, although runs just fine on 16Gb.
Microsoft Flight Simulator min recommended is 16Gb, ideal recommended is 32Gb.
Farcry6 with the HD texture pack recommended minimum of 16Gb, ideal 32Gb. The texture pack by itself can soak up 11Gb of ram, that's before any considerations for the rest of the game, windows, live streaming, discord etc.

32Gb is coming. It won't be long before DDR5 is standard and DDR4 is treated the same way DDR3 is now, yesterday's news. Once that happens, devs will be looking at engines that can take advantage of higher speed, higher capacity ram, where 16Gb means you only got 1 stick, so 32Gb will be the norm, with 64Gb treated the way 32Gb pc's are now.

View: https://youtu.be/AGux0pANft0
5000 series changed its memory controller enough to make a substantial difference vs 1000 to 3000 series, dunno what 7000 series or higher will do.

Where did you get your numbers from...?

Only MSFS mentions 32GB as an 'ideal' setting (not recommended), but that's just because that's the next logical step up from 16GB. MSFS doesn't come close to using all 32GB of RAM. I know that there are several games that may go right up to (and maybe a bit above) 16GB at maximum graphics settings and at 1440p+.

Starwars Jedi: Fallen Order is minimum 8GB, recommended 16GB -
https://www.ea.com/games/starwars/jedi/jedi-fallen-order/about/pc-system-requirements
Microsoft Flight Simulator is minimum 8GB, recommended 16GB, ideal 32GB -
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us...c-system/7ef2fd42-43ed-45d5-98fc-b2f32b8468d6
Farcry6 with the HD texture pack is minimum 12GB, recommended 16GB -
https://www.ubisoft.com/en-us/help/far-cry-6/article/system-requirements-for-far-cry-6/000098943

I also need to take into account that I am using a 16GB VRAM GPU. This allows games to keep textures (for example) in VRAM instead of caching them to RAM, drastically reducing RAM usage. Again, I think 32GB is plenty for me in the foreseeable future.

Yeah, I saw that video regarding number of sticks on Ryzen 5000. The benefit they are seeing with 4 sticks has to do with memory ranks. Buildzoid talks about this in his DDR4 vs. DDR5 video. It looks like DDR5 won't show the big difference in performance that DDR4 did, by adding ranks. Of course, how Ryzen 7000 CPUs actually perform with single vs. dual rank is still speculation until reviewers actually get their hands on a Ryzen 7000 and put it through its paces.

 

[Karadjgne]

The benefit they are seeing with 4 sticks has to do with memory ranks.

To a point. 1000 series basically got stuck at 2133MHz. 2000 series got lucky to hit 2666MHz MHz, 3000 series could handle 3200MHz with some tweaks, if you got the right ram. 5000 series so far has no limits and likes 4x sticks just fine.

Granted you need to change boards, and possibly topology to get that, and thats just concerning Ryzens. Current Intel benefits almost as much with ddr5 as it is basically DR/DC in a single stick. 4 sticks would basically act like DR/quad channel, if the cpu would allow that. Mainstream HEDT capability. Prolly see that happen as soon as 9000 series or 14thGen.

The only thing devs are looking at are consoles, anything more the PC gets are plugins the dev can cheaply buy to add on (AA, upscaling, what have you) , texture packs are platform agnostic.

Yes. Consoles. Which aren't using FX or jaguars for cpu anymore. How long will it be until the Xbox3 or PS6 is using mobile Ryzen or 12thgen cpus or better, with better than Vega graphics? There's already laptops that blow the doors off most pcs with 4k/120Hz capability. If the console is there, the devs will make games to use it as it'll solve many limitations they currently run into.

 

[TerryLaze]

Yes. Consoles. Which aren't using FX or jaguars for cpu anymore. How long will it be until the Xbox3 or PS6 is using mobile Ryzen or 12thgen cpus or better, with better than Vega graphics? There's already laptops that blow the doors off most pcs with 4k/120Hz capability. If the console is there, the devs will make games to use it as it'll solve many limitations they currently run into.

It will take long enough for systems build on rl or zen4 to already be on their way out by the time they come out let alone the devs start making games specifically for them.
People where saying that those jaguar consoles would make the dual cores disappear and except for a very few games that have coding problems they can still run pretty much any game, badly sure but they can.

 

[alceryes]

To a point. 1000 series basically got stuck at 2133MHz. 2000 series got lucky to hit 2666MHz MHz, 3000 series could handle 3200MHz with some tweaks, if you got the right ram. 5000 series so far has no limits and likes 4x sticks just fine.

Yup.
So, the question becomes, is dual rank at a much lower MT/s better than single rank at higher MT/s. Currently, as with many things, the answer is 'it depends'.
However, because of the higher speeds and optimizations of DDR5, there's supposedly much less of a difference between DDR5 of difference ranks, as it relates to overall performance.

In another month we'll see how this pans out with Ryzen 7000 performance numbers.

 

[Metal Messiah.]

I think Ryzen ZEN 4 launch has been pushed back to 27'th of SEPTEMBER 2022, the same day as Intel's 13'the gen RAPTOR LAKE announcement ? Clash of the Titans incoming...

I would still take any launch date by a dose of salt though, since these are subject to change, and are not official yet. Makes little sense to delay the launch just by few weeks time though, from the initial September 15 date.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559155172500475905

View: https://twitter.com/9550pro/status/1559155172500475905

AMD now rumored to launch Ryzen 7000 series on September 27th - VideoCardz.com

 

[alceryes]

I think Ryzen ZEN 4 launch has been pushed back to 27'th of SEPTEMBER 2022, the same day as Intel's 13'the gen RAPTOR LAKE announcement ? Clash of the Titans incoming...

I would still take any launch date by a dose of salt though, since these are subject to change, and are not official yet. Makes little sense to delay the launch just by few weeks weeks time though, from the initial September 15 date.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559155172500475905

View: https://twitter.com/9550pro/status/1559155172500475905

AMD now rumored to launch Ryzen 7000 series on September 27th - VideoCardz.com

Yup.
AMD doesn't want to pass up a perfect opportunity to piss on Intel's parade. I'd really like Intel to address the elephant in the room regarding E-core performance. I doubt they will though.

 

[drea.drechsler]

I think Ryzen ZEN 4 launch has been pushed back to 27'th of SEPTEMBER 2022, the same day as Intel's 13'the gen RAPTOR LAKE announcement ? Clash of the Titans incoming...

I would still take any launch date by a dose of salt though, since these are subject to change, and are not official yet. Makes little sense to delay the launch just by few weeks time though, from the initial September 15 date.
....

I get the feeling neither wants to be first. That suggest they may not have a really good idea of the performance of each other's product stack so want an opportunity to adjust pricing of their own.

 

[Metal Messiah.]

I get the feeling neither wants to be first. That suggest they may not have a really good idea of the performance of each other's product stack so want an opportunity to adjust pricing of their own.

Yeah, I don't think neither AMD or Nvidia know how much performance benefit their competitor's platform can provide, but I have a feeling AMD is actually "paranoid" about Intel releasing the Raptor Lake chips on the market.

It could be either that, or maybe AMD is 100% confident on Zen 4's performance, and want to steal the show, so that's why they are "launching" the same day when Intel will "announce" 13'the gen Raptor Lake ?

According to theory, AMD is launching Zen 4/AM5 platform on 27'th of SEPTEMBER, but INTEL is only announcing their next-gen platform. I find this odd.

But like you have mentioned before, they really don't have an estimate on the performance jump of their competitor's platform. I find it odd for AMD to launch the same day Intel announces and provides details on Raptor Lake, assuming the above rumor is 100% accurate and legit.

 

[TerryLaze]

But like you have mentioned before, they really don't have an estimate on the performance jump of their competitor's platform. I find it odd for AMD to launch the same day Intel announces and provides details on Raptor Lake, assuming the above rumor is 100% accurate and legit.

Both camps have technicians and engineers with decades of experience, there have been enough leaks that we as dufuses have a pretty good idea of the performance, they have a much better one.
I would even say that they are close to 100% sure of the competitors performance.

 

[CountMike]

In Canada I worked as an engineer in automotive parts industry for some 30 years for same corporation. My boss always said that "You can't fart without all in industry knowing about it" and indeed, one day at SEMA show in Las Vegas, Lee Iacocca which was president of Chrysler corp (not related to our corp) showed up at our booth and when my boss introduced me he recognized me as "That guy that makes machines first and than makes drawings of it". I mean, I was practically nobody but he new of that detail
I can just imagine how it is in IT industry where spying is rampant.

 

[drea.drechsler]

In Canada I worked as an engineer in automotive parts industry for some 30 years for same corporation. My boss always said that "You can't fart without all in industry knowing about it" and indeed, one day at SEMA show in Las Vegas, Lee Iacocca which was president of Chrysler corp (not related to our corp) showed up at our booth and when my boss introduced me he recognized me as "That guy that makes machines first and than makes drawings of it". I mean, I was practically nobody but he new of that detail
I can just imagine how it is in IT industry where spying is rampant.

I'm not so sure I can agree with that with something like a processor.

To be sure, they may gain an idea of possible performance range and feature sets but not what they'll actually come to market with, and certainly not what the pricing will be. The engineers can do that just by analysis and projections of their current architecture, known capabilities of their manufacturing process, review of professional publications and white papers, looking at recent patent applications and even what skill sets they've looked for with recent hiring. They don't really need 'leaks' for that.

I've worked as an engineer in aerospace electronic manufacturing for 20 years and I know there are a number of techniques used to mask true performance (or even purpose) of not only individual devices but entire systems. It won't be quite so closely guarded as a processor used in a spy satellite but they can really quite easily obfuscate and mislead performance with conflicting planted leaks for instance.

What that means is: whatever you learn from leaks is unreliable in the detail and can't be depended on to make specific business decisions like what clocks and power ranges (relatively easily configured with modern CPU's) and price points you'll bring your products to market at in order to be competitive.

 

[alceryes]

I would even say that they are close to 100% sure of the competitors performance.

I think this is accurate. Not 100%, but they are close to knowing where their competitor's chips will land with regards to their own.

 

[Metal Messiah.]

Not 100%, but they are close to knowing where their competitor's chips will land with regards to their own.

Yeah, they won't know the performance jump 100% though, but they will still have an estimate of the perf jump of any competitor's architecture. Also, we get leaks on next-gen hardware early, which gives us some hint on how much we can expect a perf jump.

For example,

Intel 13th Gen Raptor Lake Desktop CPUs "Expected" Features:

• Up To 24 Cores & 32 Threads
• Brand New Raptor Cove CPU Cores (Higher P-Core IPC)
• Based on 10nm ESF 'Intel 7' process node
• Up To 6.0 GHz clock speeds (expected)
• Double The E-Cores on certain variants
• Increased Cache for both P-Cores & E-Cores
• Supported on existing LGA 1700 motherboards
• New Z790, H770, and B760 motherboards
• Up To 28 PCIe Lanes (PCH Gen 4 + Gen 3)
• Up To 28 PCIe Lanes (CPU Gen 5 x16 + Gen 4 x12)
• Dual-Channel DDR5-5600 Memory Support
• 20 PCIe Gen 5 Lanes
• Enhanced Overclocking Features
• 125W PL1 TDP (Flagship SKUs)
• AI PCIe M.2 Technology
• Q4 2022 Launch (October Possibly)

So based on the above info, even we can make some educated guesses as well, at least to some extent, if not fully. AMD, NVIDIA and INTEL engineers on the other hand, might have more insight and knowledge about competitor's upcoming lineup/architecture.

 

[Metal Messiah.]

Some slight update.

AMD Ryzen 5 7600X engineering sample shows up on Chinese black market. Chinese sellers have already got their hands on AMD's Ryzen 7000 "Zen 4" Desktop CPU as the Ryzen 5 7600X has been listed online. The link doesn't seem to work it seems.

The AMD Ryzen 5 7600X "Zen 4" Desktop CPU listed over at the Chinese outlet, Goofish, is from a 3rd party. The chip itself is a very early engineering sample which the seller reports comes with a clock speed of 4.4 GHz whereas the official version of the chip features a base clock speed of 4.7 GHz. So right off the bat, there's a huge difference between this and the retail chip.

The CPU pictured here has the OPN code "100-000000593-20" and was produced in the 17th week of 2022 so that's around early May 2022. Considering that, it is definitely an early sample.

The pricing of the AMD Ryzen 5 7600X 6-core CPU is also insane with the seller listing it for 9999 Yuan which converts to roughly over $1000 US. The seller has asked those interested in buying the chip off him to message him for a better price. The user doesn't show any proof that the chip works or not.

 

[drea.drechsler]

...

An early engineering sample someone managed to steal. Can't infer anything of value production off of it.

 

[Metal Messiah.]

Yeah, that's just an unfinished SKU, an early engineering sample, having specs different than what the final retail SKU would be having. That's why this is being sold in the grey market. It looks like someone really wanted to earn some quick cash/money. But this CPU has no value for sale.

It makes little to no sense to buy any ES CPU right now though, since the final retail samples will hit market shelves next month, according to rumors. Also, there are hardly any AM5 socket mobos for sale as well.