AMD ( the world's most powerful pc processor )

[Guest]

on Amd.com
i really love how they say that huh.

and it's true!

AMD most powerful. ahhhh

i like that

--call it what you wish, with this machine I can make mercury flow in 3 directions at once--

 

[Guest]

just think about how far amd has come in the past few years

amazing huh?

--call it what you wish, with this machine I can make mercury flow in 3 directions at once--

 

[killall]

not at all bad... unless your pc runs off an alpha... but then its not really a pc is it? but it could be couldnt it... how do you define pc? ibm compatible? x86? something sold in pc world? personal computer... if the latter theres always the alphas and sh!t...

you do not strengthen the weak by weakening the strong

 

[Toejam31]

... apathetically-mated with the world's crappiest, most unstable, high-performance chipset.

Just slips off the tongue like butter, doesn't it? ;0

Toejam31

<font color=purple>My Rig:</font color=purple> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847" target="_new">http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847</A>

 

[Guest]

Whats that supposed to mean? Intel doesn't have unstable chipsets?

Aklein

It's raining outside, and my lawn has grown a foot overnight!

 

[peteb]

I think it means that you can count the number of stable, proven rock solid AMD chipsets on the fingers of one hand after a particularily nasty industrial accident.

Intel have better chipset solutions, until now manufacturers spent more time on them and got them better. This I think will change, but it is a reation to the improving poularity of AMD.

[dream]Now if we could only get Intel to make a chipset for AMD - that would be a hell of a setup. [/dream]

-* This Space For Rent *-
email for application details

 

[Toejam31]

Well, let's see if I can give you an example ... just based on my personal desktop systems; not including the computers I build and service every day of the week. I can be fair, without it being too much of a strain.

Out of the last nine computers I have owned, eight have had Intel chipsets, including the system I am running at the moment. One had a VIA chipset.

The eight computers with Intel chipsets have never needed anything more than regular maintenance and periodic driver upgrades .. and all of them are still running, including two that were purchased in 1996.

The AMD system with the VIA chipset expired after eight months of the most frustrating sheer hell I have ever been through with one single computer ... and left me around $2500.00 in the hole as I replaced fried components that died due to inadequate power leads ... which in turn was due to the reference design of the mainboard ... supplied by VIA. It shouldn't even be necessary for me to mention the compatibility issues with the 636A Southbridge, and the numerous lockups while attempting to run 3D applications. That, Sir, is what we down South call a "gimme".

Never before in my life did I find it necessary to download so many chipset driver updates, patches, and fixes. Never before had I been forced to spend literally hundreds of hours searching for solutions that would allow a single system to function, not just adequately, but at all. I can recall on many occasions never needing to install Intel chipset drivers but once per system ... and having the computers run just fine with the initial BIOS installed at the factory. The Intel 440BX chipset, in my opinion, was the most stable chipset ever developed, period.

After all the time and money invested in that one system, I feel more than justified in expressing my opinion.

But ... in answer to your question; yes, of course Intel has produced unstable chipsets. The 820 was a fiasco, and the 810 was nothing to be proud of. But the company has a far better track record than VIA, which just a comparatively short while ago, was regarded with no more respect than Cyrix for their processors, which weren't worth a damn. Or Mustek for their scanners. Or Smart & Friendly for their CD-ROM's.

I firmly believe that AMD will not achieve the market share they need to compete with Intel on reasonable terms until they spend the money for the research (and fabrication plants) needed for full and exclusive development of their own chipsets, instead of relying on a third-party with terrible quality control.

If you find my opinion morally offensive, or personally insulting, then perhaps you should apply for VIA to send you a monthly check so that you can get reimbursed for so vehemently defending their products. But that's a personal issue, and absolutely none of my business.

In the meantime, for the record, I prefer for my computers to be relatively stable, and to last for a while. With a minimum of problems.

Pronouncing the last rites over that AMD/VIA system was the best thing that ever happened to me. The nightmare is over ... and I can just USE my home computer again, without a constant (and losing) battle. It's a real relief. I still haven't completely adjusted ... the whole experience was demoralizing.

That's my opinion. Take it or leave it. But don't make the mistake of confusing me with someone who doesn't have a clue. I'm a hell of diagnostician, and I don't condemn hardware unless it's deserved. And in this case ... I feel that my reasoning is more than adequate. My wallet agrees with me, wholeheartedly.

Comments?


Toejam31


<font color=purple>My Rig:</font color=purple> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847" target="_new">http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847</A>

 

[bhc]

Too bad your experience with VIA is so terrible. But forget about AMD for a moment, who do you think make VIA the #1 chipset maker? It's Intel, by refusing to give what customers want -- the choices of memory. The PIII with RDRAM was a total waste, yet Intel refused to make a decent SDRAM chipset for PIII for a long long time. So, consumers had to turn to outfits like VIA to get what they want. If you don't like the quality control of VIA, just think what Intel had done to us the last few years.

**Spin all you want, but we the paying consumers will have the final word**

 

[sandain]

I am currently using an Asus K7M with the 686A southbridge, a SBLive, and a GeForce2MX400. I'm running WinME (without the 4 in 1), and the only problem I've had was with my old PCI TNT... I think I was overloading the PCI bus.

I do wish that AMD would start producing there own chipsets. However because they seem to be against that, I hope this Nvidia nForce turns out to be as kickass as it sounds.

The one thing I am curious about, why didn't AMD go with the HyperTransport on the 760MP...

-Sandain

 

[Guest]

Talking about bad chipsets...
I followed the URL to your rig, and saw you have one of those motherboards that Rayston claims thoggles a P4 1700mhz back to 850mhz. LOL

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by jenspetersen on 06/08/01 01:59 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[juin]

I see it differente for AMD future.If northwood fail and nvisia work.That would impresif that intel crash and nvisia rise.For 2002 they predict much better growht rate.So with good earning for a full year and a decline in intel stock.AMD can issue stock at a high price to get some billion and finally beat intel for good.Dont forget AMD must satisfie the share holder too Intel made that part maybe too good. That go beyond tech and mghz.AMD/Intel are there for profit not to win benchmark.

 

[Guest]

The way I see it is that while Intel had the market share they kept prices artificially high,while AMD with the K6 were seen to be for the budget concious.When AMD launched the Athlon as a viable alternative to the PIII for for less cash and parity in performance Intel started to worry.Have you ever heard of Intel making as many price cuts as they have in past 18 months.I myself think that they (Intel) were always setting their prices unjustifiably high.

Fullspizz People

 

[Toejam31]

I've seen those articles about the clock-throttling. It hasn't happened with this machine. Full speed, all the time, no stepping-back. No heat issues, either ... but I am not using a stock heatsink. In retrospect, an Asus board would have been better, because this BIOS leaves much to be desired, especially for overclocking ... it looks much like the kind of limited OEM BIOS made for proprietary machines, like a Compaq. Fortunately, I haven't needed to make any real adjustments, or you would have heard me yelling! <GRIN>

I hope all of you will notice ... my previous post was not made so much in defense of Intel, but against a traumatic experience with hardware designed by AMD, VIA and MSI. The reason I had bought the AMD/VIA machine in the first place was because of several factors. Those would have been:

1. Competition ... it's good for all of us. It's good because it drives the market, for prices, and for accelerated development.

2.) Rambus. I didn't like the latency issues, or the price, the moment I first heard about it. I don't like being forced to use a particular kind of RAM. As a consumer, I don't like being dismissed ... it was a radical mistake on Intel's part to assume that the average Joe would leap at having a higher clock speed and meekly submit to throwing out every stick of SDRAM in the house, simply because Intel became committed to using RDRAM. That made me angry, and I know that I'm not alone in that.

3.) There's no doubt that AMD processors have the edge in terms of performance for most applications. And who wouldn't want that? Not in every benchmarking test, and not with every application ... but in enough to be convincing. You might argue ... but benchmarking tests don't lie ... and I've looked at testing results until they're coming out of my ears. I continue to do so, as I have been for the last two years. You can look at a lot of test results in that much time.

4.) At the time, there was also the consideration of upgrading. Sockets vs Slots ... and what will be around long enough to make an upgrade later on feasible. These days, it's hard to tell ... even sockets are being retired within a turn-around of less than a year.

Those are pretty good reasons for trying out a newer technology, and thumbing your nose at the Goliath. Certainly I expected a few bugs ... that's nothing new. But this was also the first time that I had a system that I couldn't keep running, even with what would be considered "heroic" measures.

It's unfortunate, that as a fallback position, I had nowhere else to turn BUT Intel when the AMD machine gave up the ghost. But I value stability over sheer speed. You can't be altogether pleased at the numbers if the machine is sitting in the corner and refuses to boot for hours at a time .. or if every single week, an expensive component appears to implode.

That's my response, as well as my excuse. Somebody call me when a mature chipset is developed for the Athlon ... preferably with a decent upgrading path, so I don't have to swap out motherboards every year. It's one thing to do it for fun ... quite another to feel forced. Right now, I'm not so sure that anyone is one the consumer's side, regardless of the outfit. This is why these AMD vs Intel wars seem so ridiculous to me ... where's the third alternative? Neither one of them really have anything I want to spend my money on ... but if I want to use a computer, and have some "relative" stability ... I can't recommend anything with a VIA chipset. I know people here in my area who refuse to build computers with an AMD platform, because there are too many problems associated with them, and it is time-consuming to support the platform.

That doesn't mean that Intel is the clear winner, or the best for everyone. But in the end ... name another option.

Toejam31




<font color=purple>My Rig:</font color=purple> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847" target="_new">http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847</A>

 

[Guest]

Sure there is..

Buy a MAC
Buy a Cyrix



--call it what you wish, with this machine I can make mercury flow in 3 directions at once--

 

[AmdMELTDOWN]

do you even know the reason and circumstances that would cause a P4 to throttle down? or are you just a layman/lackey?

"AMD/VIA...you <i>still</i> are the weakest link, good bye!"

 

[Guest]

In the review I read framerates would drop horrible when playing Q3 at 1024*768*32 and above.
This means when you really need cpupower badly the P4 ( or the chipset) will let you down.
Maybe he picked a cpu that doesnt thoggle, but I tell there are some serious issues with this cpu. I imagine that these issues will become bigger with increasing clockspeed. P4 badly needs a schrink to 0,13 micron.


<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by jenspetersen on 06/08/01 02:08 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[RCPilot]

That's to bad about you & AMD. I think that the Tech's as you call yourself just look at AMD & the MOBO"S worng & don't take the time to really understand them.

I"ll bet you like Bill Gates & Microsoft as well. They have now decided to make all the Win 95 & before oblolete in XP. Your probably happy filling Bill's pockets & Intel's as well.

I'll bet you get a kickback from Intel in your business to use Intel, that's the only way I'd use Intel.

For me, I have the fastest & most stable computer now with AMD that I ever had with Intel & it was a hell of a lot cheaper to build.

Intel will have to show me they have something better than an under proforming P4 before thay will ever get another nickle from me. Especially for me, because I can build them stable & they rock for my customers.

Just my $.02

Skinny

How do you eat a elephant? One bit at a time!

 

[AmdMELTDOWN]

with all due respect and with apologies for the comment I've made, but it's clear to me that further research on your behalf is needed to fully understand the P4 throttling non-issue.

take care.

"AMD/VIA...you <i>still</i> are the weakest link, good bye!"

 

[khha4113]

<b>with all due respect and with apologies for the comment I've made</b>
That's the attitude that i'd respect from a man!

Good or Bad have no meaning at all, depends on what your point of view is.

 

[Toejam31]

You are entitled to your opinion, AmdMeltdown ... and I fully understand your skepticism about my comment since I pretty much bypassed the subject matter.

But I'm also entitled to my reply, although it is with some hesitation that I attempt to defend myself. As previously stated, I have no intention of becoming part of the AMD vs Intel war that seems to have permeated this board for some time. I am not political in nature. I come here to offer advice and technical support, and learn to something if at all possible. (And that happens all the time, if anyone is interested. There are some smart individuals that frequent this forum.)

And occasionally, I rant a bit. But that's a personal problem, and if I get flamed for it, that's my own fault.

But since we are sharing this forum, and because we are both professionals in the industry, it would be nice not to have to defend my reputation and /or character. Descending to a personal level in order to make a point is not the way to handle things. That's advice we should all take to heart ... and I am as much to blame as anyone.

To answer your question ... I am fairly well versed in the Thermal Design guidelines for the Pentium 4. As of yet, I have not had the time or opportunity (or the inclination, to be honest) to thoroughly test this machine. But I have not as of yet noticed any processor power dissipation due to the Thermal Monitor's clock modulation. Perhaps this is because the ambient temperature in the room is kept relatively low ... and partially because the chassis has an excellent cooling solution. My thermal design point is set at approximately 75% of the maximum processor power, and so far, the thermal design point hasn't been tripped when running 3D apps like Quake 3. Again ... up to this point.

But .. I promise that when I have sufficient time, I intend push the system, and post the results here afterwards. Right at the moment, I have a house filled with with guests from Grimsby, England (one of whom is a retired Cobalt programmer who is several times smarter than I am), and feeding and entertaining these folks are keeping me hopping!

Thanks for all the comments ... even if some of you were kinda cruel about it. But that's okay ... my ego (such as it is) remains intact. For the moment. <GRIN>

See ya ...

Toejam31

<font color=purple>My Rig:</font color=purple> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847" target="_new">http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847</A>

 

[Guest]

Amazing, simply amazing! I hear these horror stories and I'm dumbfounded. I must be either lucky or a kick-ass System/Network Admin. Why? Because I administor a network of almost 75 workstations and most all of them are now Athlons running on VIA chipset motherboards. And you know what, I don't spend any more time repairing these machines then I did when most of the machines were Intel. Sh*t, I'd never buy AMD/VIA machines if they caused me headaches because ultimately I'm the guy that has to fix them. And I don't have time to run around fixing broken PC's all day. I'm too busy keeping the Intel servers going. Are you doing something wrong or are you just anti AMD? Which is it?

How can anyone assume you know anything about computers, let alone how to fix them, when you own a P4? Your system tells me everything I need to know about your knowledge of PC's.
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Connie on 06/08/01 08:56 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[Guest]

I've looked over the specs to your computer! Wow!

It must have cost over US$4000! Are you sure you need 10 drive bays and 550W! Are you overkilling the video with a GeForce 3 AND A MPEG DECODER CARD?

HOLY SH!T! I wish I had that kind of money!

 

[AmdMELTDOWN]

>and I fully understand your skepticism about my comment since I pretty much bypassed the subject matter.

dude, at no time did I direct a comment towards you. look around the only peeps that are attacking you and your opinions are the Amd burn outs.

"AMD/VIA...you <i>still</i> are the weakest link, good bye!"

 

[Toejam31]

"look around the only peeps that are attacking you and your opinions are the Amd burn outs."

Yep ... I noticed. It's almost sad, isn't it? The funny thing is ... my comments were about the chipset and the mainboard design ... not AMD; I was impressed with the performance of the AMD processor, and I attempted to make that clear. But ... I am not responsible for the reading comprehension level of the board members ... and that seems to be about 90% of the problem.

In fact, the reason for posting really had no other point but to describe the circumstances that forced me to turn back to Intel, although in the case of the P4, it was a reluctant decision ... primarily because of the expected heat issues (which seem to be exaggerated) and limited upgrading options with this motherboard. But, what the hell ... the system was a warranty replacement for the other, and when the CEO of Alienware said that I could have pretty much whatever I wanted ... this seemed to be a good deal, and on par with the performance level of the last machine (advances in technology not withstanding.)

I replied to you, AmdMeltdown, because you had said something interesting. The other posts, for the most part, were just venomous and ill-considered replies that appeared to be made for no apparent reason. But that was no surprise. It was just my turn to have my balls busted by the emotionally-stunted, if you catch my drift.

Lackey ... now that made me laugh. I prefer "shill", myself. <GRIN>

Oh, and by the way ... I wasn't including you in that bunch!

Too bad that it took any real usefulness out of the thread ... I know there are people who have been in similar situations with an AMD/VIA rig, and I would have liked to have heard some comments from that sector. Experience and accumulated knowledge is of no use if you can't share it.

Oh, well. It's a dead thread.

Have a good one ...

Toejam31


<font color=purple>My Rig:</font color=purple> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847" target="_new">http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847</A>

 

[Guest]

><A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847" target="_new">http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847</A>
Oh my God, you have some money, hey dude? This system must have cost you an eye and a leg!

Have a good one you too!

Where the <b>hell</b> is that AnyKey?