AMD Thermal Margin Question

[GeforcerFX]

I recently got my first modern mobile AMD chip (A8-5557m) I know that on almost all the desktop CPUs the Thermal margin is 70C, I was wondering if this was the same on the mobile chips? I saw in the AMD Overdrive user manual under cpu status it said

"Thermal Margin indicates how far the current operating temperature is below the maximum operating temperature of the processor. When TCTL is less or equal than TCTL_MAX (70 for lidded parts)Thermal Margin is displayed in Blue, otherwise in in Red with Red Boarder"

Does lidded parts just mean desktop chips with heat spreaders?

Any info is greatly appreciated.

 

[DonkeyOatie]

Lidded means in it's cased package, if that's what you mean by the heat-spreader. Some people 'delid' processors by removing the top of the metal case that it comes in to expose the actual silicon underneath.

 

[GeforcerFX]

yeah thats what I meant by heatspreader. I saw on CPU boss they said max CPU operating temp was 105c is that the thermal margin in Overdrive?

 

[mjslakeridge]

The thermal margin in Overdrive is indicating how many degrees c your CPU is currently under the maximum allowed temperature. The higher the number of the thermal margin, the better, meaning you are that many degrees c away from maximum.

 

[DonkeyOatie]

Yes. Thermal Margin is the difference between where you are now and the maximum limit.

 

[GeforcerFX]

I get how the thermal margins work, what I am trying to figure out is if that max temp is still 70C for the mobile chips like it is for the desktop chips.

Thanks for the answers so far

 

[DonkeyOatie]

The maximum safe temp for mobile chips is, if anything, a little higher than desktops, but the cooling is much weaker, so the thermal headroom is less.

The max temp for a desktop chip is likely to be much higher. My old HP ran on the upper 80's, with an Intel CPU.

 

[GeforcerFX]

Yeah basically i am using the thermal margins to figure out what my core temps are since everest and HWmonitor are reporting load temps in 160C, which i know is not possible. I havn't had a thermal shut down yet so I would assume I am doing ok, the most i have seen is -20 over thermal load which if my therm argin is 70C, like the desktops, is 90C for a brief moment. My idles are around 30C away from thermal margin so again if the margin max is 70C is a 40C idle which i am perfectly fine with. I have a decent idea of the package temp since under load the on die GPu when running 3dmark06 never went above 75C according to overdrive, HWmonitor, and MSI afterburner. So basically the point of my question is what my thermal margin on this chip is (like if it is 70C like a desktop) so i am subtract where the margin is and get my core temps out of that since no other program is reporting them correctly.

 

[DonkeyOatie]

Overdrive is one of the few 'reliable' pieces of software for this measurement.

 

[mjslakeridge]

According to the link I have attached below, the maximum operating temperature for that processor is 105c.

http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Bulldozer/AMD-A8-Series%20A8-5557M.html

 

[junkeymonkey]

ya but throttling can kick in at 60+ look at all the am3+ fx chip thread on this just here at toms [lots]

example
http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-2786295/question-cpu-temperatures-socket-package-amd-8320.html

 

[GeforcerFX]

yeah i am trying to figure out exactly what that throttle point is on this chip that overdrive is reporting. I know that on desktop fx chips i have worked with its 70C, as reported in the guide as well. I am just trying to figure out if that holds true for the mobile. I have seen the max thermal design on this A8 is 105c, what i am worried about is if thats the max thermal margin that overdirve is reporting, if so then this chip is idling at 75C amd loading into the 120c which seemed not only not possible but definitely not good for the chip. If the thermal margin is still 70C for the mobile chips in overdrive then i am idling in the 40C with load temps getting into the 80's and brief 90's under extreme loads, which seems more normal to me for a laptop chip with the terrible cooling this one has.

 

[junkeymonkey]

70c is way up there for desktop am3+ chip [fx] at full load to me 60-65c is max I want to see [opinion] don't use moble for anything sorry


main thing is if its not throttling - shutting down or bsoding - or really no bad affects on overall computer usage - call it good

maybe just bad or what ever sensor readings

try a laptop cooling pad thing and see how that changes things ?? there not known for airflow and well sealed with minimal slots grills for air flow to start with

 

[GeforcerFX]

70c is way up there for desktop am3+ chip [fx] at full load to me 60-65c is max I want to see [opinion] don't use moble for anything sorry


main thing is if its not throttling - shutting down or bsoding - or really no bad affects on overall computer usage - call it good

maybe just bad or what ever sensor readings

try a laptop cooling pad thing and see how that changes things ?? there not known for airflow and well sealed with minimal slots grills for air flow to start with

Unfortunately it's not a laptop, the chip is in a gigabyte brix mini pc. They did a wierd cooling layout so i was worried about the temps. It's practically brand new so i am just gonnna push it, if it breaks i am just gonna return it.

 

[DonkeyOatie]

I think, but do not know for sure, that the mobile chip have similar envelopes to the desktops, although their power consumption is less. I would work on 105C - average observed idle, not matter what the software says,

 

[junkeymonkey]

looking around they don't seem to want you to see inside or speak about any cooling for it ??

http://www.gigabyte.us/products/product-page.aspx?pid=4930#ov

maybe something you have to live with on that? just the term brix made me chuckle as I was thinking I brix'ed my computer [lol]

loks like you the test subject for that rig ?? I don't know what to say on that

loks like others had the temp concerns

http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-2219424/cooling-gigabyte-brix-gtx-760.html

http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-2610878/question-gigabyte-brix-gaming-fans-question.html

 

[GeforcerFX]

Thats the higher end version mine just has the APU in it, or thats what I thought. These cases use dual motherboards, since 3 of the models have a dedicated GPU as well. What wierd is you can easily remove the bottom board (the bottom of which has all your barebones access stuff, RAm, WiFi, Sata) on the top of the base board is the CPU and chipset with a tiny copper heat sink, then there's a huge heat sink and another board that has the dual fans plugged into it. Here's the weird part when you remove the heat sink on the very top board (the bigger heat sink), it's cooling nothing. The top motherboard has the layout for a dedicated GPU but is a blank PCB with a giant copper heat sink on it that cools nothing. Meanwhile the CPU has a pretty dinky copper heat sink in comparison on it.

 

[junkeymonkey]

-well its beyond me on it maybe look over stuff like this and do a mod of some kind ??

http://www.frozencpu.com/cat/l2/g40/c16/list/p1/Air_Cooling-Chipset_HeatsinksCoolers.html

maybe a chipset cooler with a fan would work as a cpu cooler in that ?? or the small fan from something like it to place in it to help if nothing else ?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA7BP30U2761&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleMKP-PC&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleMKP-PC-_-pla-_-Fans+%2f+Heatsinks+%28Case+-+CPU+-+Chipset%29-_-9SIA7BP30U2761&gclid=CjwKEAjwh8exBRDyyqqH9pvf1ncSJAAu4OE3XX_3laXoLSbScZ1DhEz8_arKyQe9XSjOErxtt3mV3hoCZMjw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds


you see like here at newegg reviews heat is brought up a few times in reviews ??

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA24G28M9216&SortField=0&SummaryType=0&PageSize=10&SelectedRating=-1&VideoOnlyMark=False&IsFeedbackTab=true#scrollFullInfo