News AMD TinyBox project put on hold due to GPU instability in AI workloads — firm publicly considering using Intel GPUs

[Admin]

Tiny Corp continues to publicly grumble about issues it is having with its AMD-based TinyBox system. In the latest flare-up, Tiny Corp has hinted at abandoning AMD GPUs to explore Intel, or even Nvidia hardware. A deadline of the end of the week was mentioned.

AMD TinyBox project put on hold due to GPU instability in AI workloads — firm publicly considering using Intel GPUs : Read more

 

[Pierce2623]

I’d tell him go buy up all the cheap a770s nobody wants since that’s what he’s threatening to do apparently. Six 7900xtx and an Epyc for $15k was a terrible price to begin with. I also wonder who’s paying the site to run these nonsense stories.

 

[ezst036]

Nvidia?

This guy demanding open firmware then threatening to jump ship to Nvidia is absolutely trolling. I've seen people get banned for lessor things on web forums. Nvidia isn't ever going to open its firmware. This is seriously a joke from Mr. Hotz and its not funny.

But Intel, I can't say I know - does Intel open its firmware blobs? Besides, Intel's drivers are not exactly the greatest are they? Mr. Hotz may be looking at no path forward when it comes to firmware blobs and Lisa Su's promise is already the best he is going to get.

Something else has to be afoot here. Maybe he wants a better deal on a large batch of AMD GPUs incoming. RX 7000 refresh soon?

 

[jlake3]

Oh boy, it’s these guys again.

Tiny Corp has hinted at abandoning AMD GPUs to explore Intel or even Nvidia hardware.

Yeah… switching to Nvidia is an empty threat. They’re never gonna support this, and would quite likely attempt legal action. Intel has less to lose in the GPU space, but the A770 isn’t exactly equivalent in compute or memory capacity?

open source the 7900XTX firmware+docs and remove the signature check

I’m not an expert… but allowing unsigned firmware seems like a questionable idea these days? Especially for a product TinyCorp is selling to enterprise customers?

asked AMD to open source Radeon firmware — with a deadline of the "end of the week" attached.

This feels like it is something that takes a while, if it’s possible at all? I’d think it would need combed over to make sure it doesn’t leak trade secrets somehow, then run by legal for patent and licensing concerns.

I can understand that AMD doesn’t like the optics of telling an AI company to pound sand, but these guys really seem to think the world revolves around them, and that buying gaming cards entitles them to a priority line to engineering to assist with their off-label use case.

 

[edzieba]

This guy demanding open firmware then threatening to jump ship to Nvidia is absolutely trolling.

On the other hand, they wouldn't need to: the demand to AMD was under the veil of "if you're not going to fix it. let us fix it ourselves". One thing Nvidia has never been accused of are unstable Cuda drivers or lack of developer support.

 

[salgado18]

AMD is trying their best not to answer "if you used enterprise hardware, the issues would already be fixed". Asking a hardware vendor to open source their firmware, full of industrial secrets, is either stupid, evil or attention-seeking. Either they deal with the issues in another way (there is always another software path to follow), or give up business (Nvidia is out of the question, and Intel doesn't have hardware that powerful).

 

[greenreaper]

I mean, SHARK's Stable Diffusion distro works for me on the latest drivers, if only in ROCm driver mode - all I have is a Ryzen 7600 with its 2 CU iGPU. Not the fastest, though; each iteration is measured in seconds.

 

[bit_user]

I’d tell him go buy up all the cheap a770s nobody wants since that’s what he’s threatening to do apparently.

The reason he hasn't is that he knows the reduced performance per card would seriously hit the value proposition of his solution. His box can probably fit only 6x 2-slot cards. Fitting more would be a challenge and probably add a lot of cost.

If he used Nvidia, that would push up his BoM costs to like $18k, since he would have to use their workstation cards (or else be at risk of violating CUDA EULA).

Six 7900xtx and an Epyc for $15k was a terrible price to begin with.

In the last article, I priced it out and hardware of his specs would cost about $10.5k, if you bought them on Newegg. Once you consider the support & warranty costs he would incur, $15k is not at all unreasonable.

I also wonder who’s paying the site to run these nonsense stories.

Advertisers. Drama draws clicks.

 

[bit_user]

This guy demanding open firmware then threatening to jump ship to Nvidia is absolutely trolling.

LOL, good call!

But Intel, I can't say I know - does Intel open its firmware blobs? Besides, Intel's drivers are not exactly the greatest are they?

No, Intel doesn't (and I dare say won't) open its firmware. I think their compute stack is in better shape than their gaming stack, software-wise.

Something else has to be afoot here. Maybe he wants a better deal on a large batch of AMD GPUs incoming. RX 7000 refresh soon?

No, I think he just has a disproportionate view of his importance and the value to AMD of what he's doing. There's no way they're going to cut him any special deals, especially given his behavior. He'll probably get the exact same deals as any reseller or OEM who buys in similar volumes.

 

[bit_user]

This feels like it is something that takes a while, if it’s possible at all? I’d think it would need combed over to make sure it doesn’t leak trade secrets somehow, then run by legal for patent and licensing concerns.

I was going to say the exact same thing. This is an extremely compressed timescale for open sourcing something. It's actually plausible that a partner could get access to AMD's firmware source, but under NDA. Then, they might have a better shot at debugging & fixing their problems, but I sort of doubt it, as there's usually a big learning curve and bugs like he's hitting tend to be very challenging to find.

I wonder if he's just asking for AMD to open source it as a negotiating position and maybe to draw more public support for his position. I think he'd be satisfied if they just fixed whatever bug he's hitting.

I can understand that AMD doesn’t like the optics of telling an AI company to pound sand, but these guys really seem to think the world revolves around them, and that buying gaming cards entitles them to a priority line to engineering to assist with their off-label use case.

100% agree.

 

[digitalgriffin]

I need popcorn for when AMD just starts ignoring him and his head explodes.

 

[usertests]

It was a great way for geohot to get free advertising.

 

[Amdlova]

Intel all the way Amd is only good for storytelling, slide shows and cry about nvidia.

 

[TerryLaze]

But Intel, I can't say I know - does Intel open its firmware blobs? Besides, Intel's drivers are not exactly the greatest are they? Mr. Hotz may be looking at no path forward when it comes to firmware blobs and Lisa Su's promise is already the best he is going to get.

Huge doubt, they do customize their software/hardware for clients though so intel could make the changes according to specs.

Drivers are good for the business/compute stuff, on gaming they have some 20+ years to make up so they lag far behind but they do a lot of work in that department.

 

[bit_user]

Huge doubt, they do customize their software/hardware for clients though so intel could make the changes according to specs.

I would guess that Intel will want him to buy the more expensive Data Center GPU Flex 170 version, for that sort of concierge service. Especially considering how low his volumes are. I'm sure he can't afford to pay them a one-time service fee, so they'd probably want to make it back somehow. Then again, maybe they consider it's worth the PR to have him on side? Who knows...

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/230019/intel-data-center-gpu-flex-170.html
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If you compare the specs, it's the same underlying chip as used in the A770. There's still a considerable performance gap between it and the RX 7900 XTX, as well as 2/3rds the memory capacity.

 

[peachpuff]

This guy? He changes companies every year, can't take him seriously...

 

[jojosbuddy]

Appears this is what was learned from the snapdragon saga with comma 2x/3x: go full bully vs buying up the old chips (which AMD would be happy with an NDA).

Geo knows he has zero time to do the painful reengineering task as they did on the snapdragon. And likely his time at Twitter minted a possible deal/guarantee for tiny boxes to power, mmm, grok?

 

[watzupken]

Of the 3 GPU companies mentioned here, I would think that AMD is probably the most collaborative. Ditching AMD is not going to help them in my opinion.

May be Nvidia solution is easier to work with from an AI workload standpoint, but not the retail GPUs. Nvidia have clearly segregated the market here, and since they are not lacking in sales at this point in time, do you think Jensen will care about some random company trying to strong arm their way for open firmware/ driver? Interested to see if AMD will respond to him. The funny thing is at one point, AMD responded and Tiny PC also mentioned it’s going well. So not sure what changed. Feels like some sort of smear campaign given the fact that AMD’s instinct AI solution is gaining traction.

 

[Notton]

Honestly, this company is smelling more and more like a scam. They are trying to deflect their responsibility to AMD, when they couldn't be bothered to properly test their configuration initially.
IDK how they are bank rolled, but those investors are going to be in the hole.

 

[renz496]

On the other hand, they wouldn't need to: the demand to AMD was under the veil of "if you're not going to fix it. let us fix it ourselves". One thing Nvidia has never been accused of are unstable Cuda drivers or lack of developer support.

this is my impression as well about this whole thing. it is not about intel or nvidia giving them access to those firmware. going with nvidia for example they probably did not need access to those firmware because nvidia will solved the issue for them. 4090 being used workstation is not unheard of. in china those 4090 was bought specifically for it's AD102 while the rest of the component are being dump for used part. at one point even 4090 are getting hard to get so some company try to build their solution using AMD gaming GPU.