News AMD's has preemptively dropped support for Windows 10 on its new Ryzen AI 300 Series chips

Giroro

Splendid
68% of Windows users are still on Windows 10, despite Microsoft's constant harassment to upgrade. It's been reported that Windows 11 usage has actually declined this year, with users going back to Windows 10.

Take the hint, AMD. Do you want to sell your silly "AI" processors to a general audience, or not?
 

baboma

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>Take the hint, AMD. Do you want to sell your silly "AI" processors to a general audience, or not?

This pertains to AMD mobile CPUs, not desktop CPUs. From evidence thus far, desktop will lag mobile in NPU adoption by at least a generation. You have another year to hang onto Win10 on desktop.

There is no "general audience" who intentionally wipe the default OS in a new AI laptop to revert to an older OS.

Whatever one may think of MS' AI features, Win11 will support AI and Win10 will not. If you don't care for AI, then you wouldn't buy an AI PC in the first place.
 

Notton

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If you're going to bother with reinstalling Win10 on a laptop that came with Win11, you might as well try out linux first.

I have ditched Win10 entirely for Win11. My X370 AM4 desktop lacked TPM and I couldn't get fTPM working properly, but after swapping it out for a B550 that had TPM, I switched it to Win11.

In terms of care levels, I want windows modern standby to work properly. I want it to not be blasting the fans at full when the lid is closed and drained of batteries when I take it out of my bag.
 

gc9

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Isn't Windows 11 needed to use something like Intel "Thread Director" to schedule tasks in hybrid architectures where the CPU cores are not all the same? Windows 11 was introduced for Intel's hybrid CPUs with Performance Cores and Efficiency Cores. AMD's new mobile archectures is hybrid now also, with big-cache cores and little-cache cores. So maybe AMD's new mobile CPUs need Windows 11 to schedule threads on cores with non-uniform access to cache.
 

pbrainii

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68% of Windows users are still on Windows 10, despite Microsoft's constant harassment to upgrade. It's been reported that Windows 11 usage has actually declined this year, with users going back to Windows 10.

Take the hint, AMD. Do you want to sell your silly "AI" processors to a general audience, or not?

Now imagine if all new PC's and business PC's wouldnt come with only Windows 11 by default..
Real W11 usage would be around 10%
 
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rluker5

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What does dropping support mean?
Does it just mean that the graphics drivers won't be up to date and the NPU won't show up in task manager?
If they did that to the desktop versions of Ryzen how many would care?
 

Colif

Win 11 Master
Moderator
As far as I know, there aren't any laptops you can buy yet with these CPU so dropping support before releasing them makes sense.

Its likely there aren't any win 10 drivers for the laptops themselves. That is what meant by dropping support. Installing win 10 on them would be painful but I am sure some will try.

Desktop not likely to see NPU for a few years. This is just like secure boot/tpm... they showed up in Windows requirements for laptops 5 years before windows 11 suddenly wanted Desktop to have them. Hardware with the features has to exist before you can start demanding it. Hardware makers need to pull finger out.
 
68% of Windows users are still on Windows 10, despite Microsoft's constant harassment to upgrade. It's been reported that Windows 11 usage has actually declined this year, with users going back to Windows 10.

Take the hint, AMD. Do you want to sell your silly "AI" processors to a general audience, or not?
Well, they kept that support up two years longer than Intel - remember Core 12th gen and its P/E cores that require Win11's scheduler to perform properly?
 

usertests

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Desktop not likely to see NPU for a few years. This is just like secure boot/tpm... they showed up in Windows requirements for laptops 5 years before windows 11 suddenly wanted Desktop to have them. Hardware with the features has to exist before you can start demanding it. Hardware makers need to pull finger out.
As someone pointed out to me, technically the 8700G and 8600G are shipping desktop APUs with a 16 TOPS NPU. So AMD got the NPU on desktop first, woohoo.

Then Intel's Arrow Lake is likely to include them for mainstream desktop CPUs.

Judging by the apparent reuse of the Ryzen 7000 I/O chiplet (w/ 2 CUs RDNA2) in Ryzen 9000, AMD doesn't care that much, and that's probably the right call. Ryzen 9000 will end up being paired with discrete GPUs most of the time, whereas there will be a lot of Arrow Lake CPUs ending up in Dell OptiPlex, Lenovo ThinkCentre, and other office PCs with no discrete GPUs. AMD-based mini PCs will tend to use mobile APUs instead.
 

Colif

Win 11 Master
Moderator
As someone pointed out to me, technically the 8700G and 8600G are shipping desktop APUs with a 16 TOPS NPU. So AMD got the NPU on desktop first, woohoo.
  • A processor or System on Chip (SoC) on our approved list. The approved list only includes processors or SoCs that incorporate Neural Processing Units (NPUs*) with 40+ Trillion Operations per Second (TOPS).
  • RAM: 16GB DDR5/LPDDR5
  • Storage: 256GB SSD/UFS or larger storage device


https://support.microsoft.com/en-au...irements-35782169-6eab-4d63-a5c5-c498c3037364

Okay, so I over generalised, but NPU that can run Co Pilot aren't in thhe wild from AMD yet. There are/were ones released before now, that don't qualify. I forgot about those.
 
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KnightShadey

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Its likely there aren't any win 10 drivers for the laptops themselves. That is what meant by dropping support. Installing win 10 on them would be painful but I am sure some will try.

Desktop not likely to see NPU for a few years. This is just like secure boot/tpm... they showed up in Windows requirements for laptops 5 years before windows 11 suddenly wanted Desktop to have them. Hardware with the features has to exist before you can start demanding it. Hardware makers need to pull finger out.

The difference being that the feature was available in hardware and the pathway set long before it was a hard-set requirement/cutoff. While it's not fully detailed by this piece or others out there, if this is another hard-set cutoff, it means putting the cart well before the horse. The option to install Win 10 but at the cost of giving up these features for the time-being to be enabled later seems like a far better model than requiring Win11 for all situations.

There should be an option like there is for Meteor Lake and Win10 to essentially hide the NPU. It doesn't seem as difficult as it's being made to look.
https://downloadmirror.intel.com/794834/NPU_Win_Release_Notes_31.0.100.1688.pdf

I understand not wanting to waste resources on optimizing/activating for W10, but if disabled under W10 then it also doesn't need those resources.

For business buyers this becomes an issue especially considering the glacial pace of vendor certifications. I would much rather be able to buy a bunch of laptops that I can run on Win10 with 9/10ths of their features, that I can enable in the future at 10/10ths when WE are ready.

It's easy when it's a single user with maybe coupla PCs (especially with dual/multi-booting), but it's a lot harder to manage when you're already cutoff from the high-end by TPM and then cut-off on the low-end by this. but the hardware is distributed over many offices/cities.

It's also hard to make decisions on this when the utility and limitations of these new AiPCs won't be know for weeks, delaying buying decisions until weeks after that.

Okay, so I over generalised, but NPU that can run Co Pilot aren't in thhe wild from AMD yet. There are/were ones released before now, that don't qualify. I forgot about those.

Well, we still don't know for sure if the old one can't qualify yet considering nV's claim of M$ working with them to make CoPilot+ work on their GPUs (as CoPilot*RT or whatever). I doubt much will come of it, but there's even a discussion seems like that hard-limit is possibly 'flexible'.
If there's a way to make it work for that outlier case, it seems like M$ or AMD should be able to get Win10 to run on a StrixPoint/SPHalo, even if it requires disabling the visibility of the NPU in bios/software, similar to intel's solution above.

Seems like a miss, even though it's being sold as a need/win.
 

Colif

Win 11 Master
Moderator
I don't have anything to do with the decisions, just trying to explain it from my perspective.
I am not here to defend them.

I don't really want an NPU, its only a requirement for new laptop buyers right now, not desktop.
I don't mind not having Co Pilot+. I don't need it myself.
 

KnightShadey

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Didn't mean you were selling it as a need/win (or defending it) , but that the PR positioning of AMD & M$ were.

Guaranteed there will be work arounds, and this likely won't matter for 99% of the same folks here who could've figured out their way around TPM2 too (stoopid autocorrect kept switching for TPMS tyre pressure).

Equally, just explaining how potentially arbitrary limits are more of hassle when the workarounds break your service agreements and support models.