News AMD's mobile X3D chips come to desktops — Minisforum's $599 MoDT debuts with Ryzen 9 7945HX3D

The only downside is the 5200 SODIMM, which might not OC to 6000. The ideal speed for Ryzen. From what I've seen the other variants of this mobo can do 5600.
 
They launched this chip in 2023. Where were you?
My current laptop runs an R9 7940HX, the non 3D version. It's from last year, pre 9000 series and guess what!? The 9955HX3D was launched LAST year.
Why is this article an article? The sponsor paid for it is NOT a good answer.
Please, get back to the cutting edge.
 
Darn, perhaps I should have waited for this, but actually I was more afraid they'd stop selling the non-3D variant, which is what I got for €500 including taxes. That's the slightly better non-SE version with fans, fully PCIe v5 and 2.5Gbit networking, which I don't use, I use 2x 10Gbit instead.

Anyhow, I'm still very happy with the board, which I use as a server, lack of ECC support my only complaint.

Very quiet, low power requirements, superb performance, reliable and cool with an ancient 90mm I dug up somewhere.

I've added a riser card that splits the x16 slot into two extra M.2 and an x8 slot above. One M.2 holds an Asix 6x SATA adapter for big helium HDDs, the other hosts an Intel x540 10Gbit NIC with a M.2 to PCIe cable. The x8 slot holds an ASUS branded Aquantia AQC107 10Gbase-T NIC, while the two motherboard M.2 connectors hold NVMe drives.

I do have a 7950X3D on a normal X670E mainboard, too (with 96GB of ECC DDR5-5600), where it's paired with an RTX 4090 and thus able to fully flex its gaming muscles. The only thing that still disappoints there is FS2024 (also 2020) in VR mode: nothing can fix bad software!

I really love what Minisforum is doing with this form factor, especially since bifurcation and M.2 adapters really add back perhaps even more flexibility than what full sized boards offer these days.

And the price is hard to beat, too!
 
The only downside is the 5200 SODIMM, which might not OC to 6000. The ideal speed for Ryzen. From what I've seen the other variants of this mobo can do 5600.
I'm using 5600 on the Minisforum and on all of my AM5 Ryzens, mostly because 6000+ wasn't available as ECC (desktops) or in SO-DIMM (Minisforum). Don't see it slowing me down but didn't see a big improvement with faster memory speeds (my Kingston DDR5-5600 ECC DIMMs would run with up to 6400 speed) and prefer stability anyway.

On the desktop my biggest gripe was lack of two DIMMs per channel support, which forced my to buy 96GB at the price of 128GB. I believe I've seen 48GB SO-DIMMs now, even 64GB for 128GB total capacity, which means more choices for current buyers, always a good thing.
 
One thing worth mentioning I noticed during testing: the onboard iGPU my not be good for games, but is functionally quite capable and has a few tricks up its sleeve (it's also perfectly snappy for all 2D work):

I was testing it with a GTX 980ti (among others), which natively isn't capable of driving my 42" 4k monitor at 144Hz and 10bits per pixel, while the iGPU can do the resolution, the refresh and the color depth.

But by connecting the monitor to the iGPU, the dGPUs would operate in "laptop" or hybrid mode, where the dGPU frame buffer content is copied into the iGPU frame buffer for evey refresh. It then did 144Hz, 10 bit per pixel and 4k no problem, even if you'd need to stint on details at that resolution for a GTX 980ti today. Worked just as fine with an RTX 2080ti, which perhaps can't do 144Hz at 4k, either.

Anyhow, hybrid mode actually allows getting resolutions and refresh out of older cards, which they can't do natively.

That extra copy pass sounds like a lot of overhead, but it is actually the normal modus operandi on pretty near every laptop that includes a dGPU and benchmarking didn't show noticeable performance differences.

In theory it's a bit more power during gaming, but on 2D desktop work the dGPU can actually power off.

Mostly, I was impressed with just how seamless AMD and Nvidia drivers cooperated at least on Windows and that I could just move the monitor cable between iGPU and dGPU, didn't try that with Linux, which might work just as well.
 
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They launched this chip in 2023. Where were you?
My current laptop runs an R9 7940HX, the non 3D version. It's from last year, pre 9000 series and guess what!? The 9955HX3D was launched LAST year.
Why is this article an article? The sponsor paid for it is NOT a good answer.
Please, get back to the cutting edge.
That doesn't say much when ignoring months, e.g. Q1 2023 is a lot different than Q4 2023.
LAST year? Whoa. Wait, that was just over 60 days ago, lol.
Not every new system will have only the latest CPU releases. Raw and relative performance of any model and how well it holds up over time are bigger factors than just pure age.
 
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They launched this chip in 2023. Where were you?
My current laptop runs an R9 7940HX, the non 3D version. It's from last year, pre 9000 series and guess what!? The 9955HX3D was launched LAST year.
Why is this article an article? The sponsor paid for it is NOT a good answer.
Please, get back to the cutting edge.
I believe that's an easy one to answer:

AMD's CCD/IOD approach gives them the flexiblity to sell the same silicon in all these different product lines and form factors.

V-Cache was originally a design targeting EPYC servers, only, where some special HPC workloads and EDA tools profited tremendously from those bigger caches, I've heard things like more than 100% faster for EDA and genomics.

That also meant giant bucks (half # CPUs = near double price to break even), because those V-cache EPYCs may not be high volume, but they can charge premium for a technology that wasn't cheap to design, but seems to turn out much cheaper to produce than it's sold. Again, rumors, but the 1st generation pure production extra pure cost was quoted at around $20.

The same may not be (have been) true for the logistics since the assembly of the V-cache costs extra steps (and time) and separate production lines, that need to be made and planned with a capacity in mind, which cannot be ramped up and down easily. Eager consumers have little patience for how slowly chips production and assembly can be shifted in any direction.

Anyhow, V-cache for consumer CPUs was a skunk-works job, accidental discovery or similar and it was only later that AMD jumped on that with a vengance, but never with a desktop/mobile-first product.

But since AMD needs to focus on profits as their primary goal, all of their CCD designs are primarily focussed on EPYC server CPU, they just happen (not entirely by accident) to be also pretty good for consumer deskops and mobile workstations.

So after producing their CCDs, the CCDs go where the margin is. After each refresh, they first go into EPYCs, anything not sold there goes into desktop and anything not sold there goes into mobile workstations, unless some OEM picks the mobile parts at the initial high price.

So the fact that 3D CCDs now are finally assembled into mobile CPUs is simply because Zen 4 V-cache CCD demand in the other markets has dried up.

If market demand had been high enough for mobile V-cache parts before, you'd have seen them there much earlier. But every V-cache CCD that hadn't already been sold into EPYC servers yielded much better margin as a 7800X3D, or perhaps as a 7950X3D, so that's where it went.

And it's the very same with the Zen 5 CCDs: If you ordered 9955HX3D chips in numbers and at a price where selling them as EPYCs is less attractive, you'll get them. But evidently the mass market simply isn't there, ...until they sunset and prices go down.

EPYC sales likely go first, it's a very hot, but also limited market and once the next generation is up, the previous one becomes a no-go. Mobile workstations are somewhat similar, which is why small Chinese OEMs love picking up the Intel variants, which are much less flexible in terms of late server/desktop/mobile/mobile-on-desktop assembly, late in their life cycle.

Zen 4 desktops showed little sign of abating until Zen 5 supply was sufficient so it's only now that V-cache CCDs wind up in the low-budget distribution channels.

Because that is what Minisforum is specialized on: selling sunset mobile hardware in NUC or desktop form factors at budget prices.

So don't complain, it's your consumer buying patterns that rules availability. If you'd ordered a few million 9955HX3D at $2000 a pop (or whatever EPYC customers are ready to pay) last year, you'd have them!
 
What is the point of using Mobile CPU in itx System when you can get the desktop one ? even for lower TDP , the desktop CPU TDP can be lowered.

Moreover , Strix Halo CPU will kill this product.
 
If this was like the framework PC with a 22 TFLOPS GPU (double of Playstation 5!) in a standardized small package I can understand

But a 7945HX3D, why wouldn't I just buy a desktop CPU and desktop mobo and get a bigger HSF and use the higher TDP
 
Darn, perhaps I should have waited for this, but actually I was more afraid they'd stop selling the non-3D variant, which is what I got for €500 including taxes. That's the slightly better non-SE version with fans, fully PCIe v5 and 2.5Gbit networking, which I don't use, I use 2x 10Gbit instead.

Anyhow, I'm still very happy with the board, which I use as a server, lack of ECC support my only complaint.

Very quiet, low power requirements, superb performance, reliable and cool with an ancient 90mm I dug up somewhere.

I've added a riser card that splits the x16 slot into two extra M.2 and an x8 slot above. One M.2 holds an Asix 6x SATA adapter for big helium HDDs, the other hosts an Intel x540 10Gbit NIC with a M.2 to PCIe cable. The x8 slot holds an ASUS branded Aquantia AQC107 10Gbase-T NIC, while the two motherboard M.2 connectors hold NVMe drives.

I do have a 7950X3D on a normal X670E mainboard, too (with 96GB of ECC DDR5-5600), where it's paired with an RTX 4090 and thus able to fully flex its gaming muscles. The only thing that still disappoints there is FS2024 (also 2020) in VR mode: nothing can fix bad software!

I really love what Minisforum is doing with this form factor, especially since bifurcation and M.2 adapters really add back perhaps even more flexibility than what full sized boards offer these days.

And the price is hard to beat, too!
How do you go about mounting all that hardware?

Also, I'm curious on the model in this article how a x16 GPU is connected. That huge heatsink seems to cover the slot.
 
I believe I've seen 48GB SO-DIMMs now, even 64GB for 128GB total capacity, which means more choices for current buyers, always a good thing.
The 64 GB DDR5 DIMMs aren't available yet. It seems like they are really late to the market because motherboards began adding support for them over a year ago. Hopefully we see them in 2025. Not sure if SO-DIMMs are going to come later than DIMMs.
btw, there isn't a single system with a 9945HX3D out right now. We don't even know how it performs.
It should be easy to extrapolate from existing products. 9950X3D is going to have about the same gaming performance as the 9800X3D, 9945HX3D the same but with slightly lower clocks.
Moreover , Strix Halo CPU will kill this product.
Strix Halo is just Zen 5 cores. Not a huge uplift over Zen 4, and not better than Zen 4 X3D for gaming (this product).

Strix Halo mini PCs are going to be a lot more expensive, and they aren't going to beat mid-range and high-end desktop GPUs in gaming performance. You put a measly desktop 4060 in the PCIe slot of this board, and you've beaten Strix Halo as long as VRAM use doesn't go above 8 GB. Or put a 9070 or other 16 GB cards in, and there will be almost no games with VRAM issues at 1440p/4K.

Strix Halo is for AI workloads first and foremost (which is why they call it "AI Max+"), and then for power efficient gaming laptops. It's not a great choice for desktop gaming unless you get it for bargain bin pricing. It also doesn't have 3D V-Cache, although there is probably nothing stopping AMD from making X3D versions of Strix Halo at a later date.
 
How do you go about mounting all that hardware?

Also, I'm curious on the model in this article how a x16 GPU is connected. That huge heatsink seems to cover the slot.
No problem really, since the case is a normal ATX tower to hold the helium 3.5" HDDs with vibe fixers in 5 1/4" HH bays. It's an ancient Sharkoon tower with a giant slow (~450 rpm) 2200mm side fan to provide some global air flow.

Anything you put into that x16 slot expands outward beyond the Mini-ITX footprint into empty space on an ATX case. You can put a 4-5 slot GPU there no problem. The heatsink really just covers an area, that a giant CPU cooler would cover on a desktop board.

The 6x SATA M.2 controller has those cables facing outward below the AQC107 10Gbit NIC, which uses the low-profile bracket and thus fits right in on top. The reverse side would be tight, but only has either a flat NVME M.2 drive or the ribbon cable to the x540 NIC, which is mounted below the Mini-ITX board, where an ATX board would have slots.

You really don't sacrifice expandability with this board, in fact I'd argue you have more flexibility with your choice of bifucation adapters and M.2 slots than on many current desktop boards, which might already tie some of those PCIe lanes to a "chipset". Here you can choose to add such a chipset or simply use it for yet another NVMe drive, all 24 lanes from the IOD for you to allocate as you see fit.

Actually, I've just received a PCIe x16 ribbon cable, that I'll plug into where the ACQ107 10Gbit NIC is currently and I'll mount an Intel B580 in there to see how that performs with the board. Since the B580 only uses x8 lanes it's a good fit for the existing bifurcation, not sure yet if I'll keep the B580 in there, mostly depends on if it will really power off in hybrid mode.

The A770s were notorious for wasting 20 Watts or more on idle, even in hybrid mode (as observed on a Serpent Canyon NUC), and that was a bummer for a system that could otherwise do double duty as a really nice µ-server, too.
 
What is the point of using Mobile CPU in itx System when you can get the desktop one ? even for lower TDP , the desktop CPU TDP can be lowered.

Moreover , Strix Halo CPU will kill this product.
Actually it rather cheaper than most desktop boards and comes with a heatsink included. One reason it's cheaper is because it doesn't include a "chipset" like the X670E, which saves money and power, if you don't need SATA or extra USB ports.

For me it's also versatility, I can put it into a really small case if I want pure compute, but I can also put it into a large case and expand it with all sorts of I/O, when and if I need that.

In my case it doesn't replace a big workstation, it adds a rather similar side-kick that uses quite a bit less power at the wall plug on idle, yet can deliver enough computational punch when and as long as I want that.

The TDP ranges don't overlap 100%, Dragon Range can go a little lower and won't quite reach the desktop at the top. But yes, it's clearly not designed to replace a desktop that renders 24x7 at peak load.

Strix Halo will offer similar CPU performance, but not similar economy. And if you really need a dGPU, Strix Halo has fewer lanes to offer.

They are different segments, with some functional and performance overlap, but Strix Halo won't have similar economy for a while.... which is a shame, because I'd really love to have one with 128GB at say €1000, which is what I'd have to pay for Dragon Range and normal DDR5.
 
What is the point of using Mobile CPU in itx System when you can get the desktop one ? even for lower TDP , the desktop CPU TDP can be lowered.

Moreover , Strix Halo CPU will kill this product.
Look at the pricing

$600 BD790i X3D (2x48GB DDR5-5600 sodimm, $204)
$800 Framework 385/32GB
$1300 Framework 395+/64GB
$1700 Framework 395+/128GB
$735 Ryzen 7950X3D (no mobo, no ram, no heatsink)

And then look at the mobo PCIe lane configuration
BD790i X3D: 16+4+4x PCIe 5.0
Framework 385/395+: 4+4+4x PCIe 4.0

More over, the 385 is an 8c/16t with a 32CU 8050S GPU.
The 395+ is the one with 16c/32t and 40CU 8060S.
The 7945HX3D is a 16c/32t and 610m. I think the 610m is a 2CU part.

I think the premise is you plug in a dGPU into the BD790i X3D, where as you plug in a non-GPU expansion card into the Framework.
Different product for different needs.
I don't even know why anyone would want the 385. It has the worst features of both designs.
 
The 64 GB DDR5 DIMMs aren't available yet. It seems like they are really late to the market because motherboards began adding support for them over a year ago. Hopefully we see them in 2025. Not sure if SO-DIMMs are going to come later than DIMMs.
That's what I thought, too, but then I found these when I was just searching for prices:
https://geizhals.de/crucial-so-dimm-kit-128gb-ct2k64g56c46s5-a3421997.html?hloc=at&hloc=de#links

Crucial SO-DIMM Kit 128GB, DDR5-5600, CL46-45-45, on-die ECC​

CT2K64G56C46S5

Two SO-DIMM modules of 64GB each. Somehow that must have slipped past the press...
 
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Two SO-DIMM modules of 64GB each. Somehow that must have slipped past the press...
Newegg says:
https://www.neweggbusiness.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9B-20-156-426
Date First Available February 18, 2025
https://www.amazon.com/Crucial-5600MHz-5200MHz-4800MHz-Compatible/dp/B0DSQMKYLN

Amazon, Newegg, and B&H Photo don't have it in stock. B&H says "New Item - Coming Soon" and apparently allows you to checkout and pay for the memory, basically a preorder.

I thought it might be related to this CUDIMM/CSODIMM story but I don't see a mention of a clock driver on the product pages.

So 64 GB modules still aren't out quite yet, but it looks like they could be available imminently. @JarredWaltonGPU
 
Actually, I've just received a PCIe x16 ribbon cable, that I'll plug into where the ACQ107 10Gbit NIC is currently and I'll mount an Intel B580 in there to see how that performs with the board. Since the B580 only uses x8 lanes it's a good fit for the existing bifurcation, not sure yet if I'll keep the B580 in there, mostly depends on if it will really power off in hybrid mode.

The A770s were notorious for wasting 20 Watts or more on idle, even in hybrid mode (as observed on a Serpent Canyon NUC), and that was a bummer for a system that could otherwise do double duty as a really nice µ-server, too.
So spent a few hours putting the Intel B580 dGPU through its paces on the Minisforum board with the non-3D 16 core Dragon Ridge...

Work really rather well. I had an A700 shortly after launch, that failed rather badly with my dual DP KVM setup, would only do Display port and then there were the drivers... so I returned that.

Later tried again with a Serpent Canyon NUC which had the A770m mobile variant inside at €700 or the price of an RTX 4060 16GB for the entire system.

Was really using that as a µ-server and only got the gaming NUC, because the A700m was very nearly included for free.

That did rather better, but I pushed it on to family for use as a gaming rig some months ago, so I can no longer compare directly.

Now bought the B580 mostly out of curiosity and as a backup GPU.

With that price coming down (and the competition is somewhere in the sky) and ready availability, it's one of the better deals, pretty near all around competent at 1440p, and often quite good enough at 4k. But then I hardly game at all myself, I'm happy if it does 60FPS+ without noticable lags, mostly just run the benchmarks, either on my CUDA workstations or when I build systems for the kids.

In the BD 790i it's a rather good fit with the bifurcation adapter to split of two extra M.2 slots, since the B580 only uses x8 lanes anyway. Since it's not low profile card I added an angled €50 riser cable, which works like a charm.

The whole system sits in an ancient Sharkoon Rebel 9 Value case with one side mounted 250 mm 450rpm fan that is practically silent, but sufficient to provide all global airflow for the mainboard, 4x18GB helium harddisks, an Intel x540 10Gbit NIC and now also the dGPU inside the case. With the GPU at 190 Watt max, and the mainboard at 100 Watt tops, the safety margins aren't huge, but the BeQuiet 400 Watt PSU hasn't faltered with power virus testing, I'll measure at the wall one of these days to make sure.

The biggest bonus is practically silent operation with modest amounts of expelled heat, and nothing inside getting hot.

There is very little performance difference between plugging the monitor to the B580 port or the Radon 610m iGPU on the IOD, I haven't checked differences in terms of power management for idle yet. Ideally the B580 would shut off completely, when the display is in power save or only doing 2D desktop stuff.

I was surprised how well LMstudio worked out of the box and even the performance using Vulcan instead of CUDA was surprisingly good e.g with DeepSeek R1 7B Quen or 8B Llama.

I think it may do just as well and perhaps a little better than the Framework Strix Halo in some cases, worse in others.

But we're talking half price or less, so doing a careful comparison for your use case may be worth the while.