News AMD's Radeon Pro 5600M is Impressively Fast in Apple's MacBook Pro, At a Cost

nofanneeded

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Still, that's less than 50% more money, for 50% more performance.
Yea Right , so the GPU price is now ALL the Price of the notebook to say that non proffesional statement.

the GPU price is only 20% of the Notebook Price and that $800 increase is not acceptable whatsoever as a PRICE DIFFERENCE .. it is 300% the Price of the GPU inside ... and NOT less than 50% for bla bla bla
 

JarredWaltonGPU

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Yea Right , so the GPU price is now ALL the Price of the notebook to say that non proffesional statement.

the GPU price is only 20% of the Notebook Price and that $800 increase is not acceptable whatsoever as a PRICE DIFFERENCE .. it is 300% the Price of the GPU inside ... and NOT less than 50% for bla bla bla
Except there's no way to get the upgrade outside of the MBP, which comes as an entire laptop. Mobile (laptop) GPUs typically increase price a lot as you go up the performance scale, so this is nothing new. Since either way you're buying a complete system, it's fair to look at the total cost vs. total performance.
 

nofanneeded

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Except there's no way to get the upgrade outside of the MBP, which comes as an entire laptop. Mobile (laptop) GPUs typically increase price a lot as you go up the performance scale, so this is nothing new. Since either way you're buying a complete system, it's fair to look at the total cost vs. total performance.
I dont care , this is not a gaming machine so you say less than %50 bla bla bla

because that performance increase is just in 10% of the notebook use ... you are not talking about a console here.

again not professional .

More over , for $800 DIFFERENCE you can upgrade notebooks from Dell and HP and Lenovo to QUADRO RTX 4000 with 8GB GDDR6 which makes Apple look like a JOKE ... and If you wish RTX 2080 Upgrade if non profi card.
 

Shadowclash10

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Except there's no way to get the upgrade outside of the MBP, which comes as an entire laptop. Mobile (laptop) GPUs typically increase price a lot as you go up the performance scale, so this is nothing new. Since either way you're buying a complete system, it's fair to look at the total cost vs. total performance.
Exactly! Laptop upgrades - CPU, GPU, RAM, SSD, have always been very expensive. I mean, most big laptop manufacturers generally charge ~$100 for 8GB of RAM, ~$200-400 per 500gb of SSD storage, etc. Apple always charges a little more for these kind of upgrades than competitors, so the price on this isn't so shocking. Plus, Apple laptops and MacOS are vastly preferred by creative pros. And many people have no idea what specs to look for. So....
 

JarredWaltonGPU

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I dont care , this is not a gaming machine so you say less than %50 bla bla bla

because that performance increase is just in 10% of the notebook use ... you are not talking about a console here.

again not professional .

More over , for $800 DIFFERENCE you can upgrade notebooks from Dell and HP and Lenovo to QUADRO RTX 4000 with 8GB GDDR6 which makes Apple look like a JOKE ... and If you wish RTX 2080 Upgrade if non profi card.
You keep throwing out terms like "not professional" as though it has any meaning. Clearly the article isn't praising Apple for pricing -- that's what "at a cost" in the headline means. As in, wow, that's an expensive upgrade! But if you want more GPU performance, in an Apple MacBook Pro, you have exactly ZERO other options.

I don't know if you're upset that Apple MBP isn't really a 'professional' laptop, or you're upset that 'professionals' are willing to pay $3000+ for a laptop like this, or what. The cost of Windows laptops with Quadro RTX 4000 cards isn't exactly a bargain. Apple MBP16 with 32GB, 1TB SSD, 5600M, fastest 9th Gen CPU, and a very nice 3072x1920 display will cost you $4100. Dell Precision 7550 15.6-inch with 8-core 10th Gen, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD, Quadro RTX 4000, and 4K display will set you back $4525 (after a current $1939 discount).

Will the Dell be faster? Sure, for some tasks quite a bit so. But it will also weigh over six pounds and get crappy battery life thanks to the Quadro RTX 4000. The MBP16 weighs 4.3 pounds and gets 11 hours battery life.

Apples and oranges, basically -- they're not the same class of laptop. Many professionals love Macs, and that's their prerogative. Would I buy one? Nope, not a chance, but others are free to do so.
 
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nofanneeded

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You keep throwing out terms like "not professional" as though it has any meaning. Clearly the article isn't praising Apple for pricing -- that's what "at a cost" in the headline means. As in, wow, that's an expensive upgrade! But if you want more GPU performance, in an Apple MacBook Pro, you have exactly ZERO other options.

I don't know if you're upset that Apple MBP isn't really a 'professional' laptop, or you're upset that 'professionals' are willing to pay $3000+ for a laptop like this, or what. The cost of Windows laptops with Quadro RTX 4000 cards isn't exactly a bargain. Apple MBP16 with 32GB, 1TB SSD, 5600M, fastest 9th Gen CPU, and a very nice 3072x1920 display will cost you $4100. Dell Precision 7550 15.6-inch with 8-core 10th Gen, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD, Quadro RTX 4000, and 4K display will set you back $4525 (after a current $1939 discount).

Will the Dell be faster? Sure, for some tasks quite a bit so. But it will also weigh over six pounds and get crappy battery life thanks to the Quadro RTX 4000. The MBP16 weighs 4.3 pounds and gets 11 hours battery life.

Apples and oranges, basically -- they're not the same class of laptop. Many professionals love Macs, and that's their prerogative. Would I buy one? Nope, not a chance, but others are free to do so.
yes you are not profi ,

you say ,

it's fair to look at the total cost vs. total performance.

Where is the TOTAL performance ?

Does the machine render 50% faster ? NO

Does the machine runs Desktop [programs 50% faster ? NO

Does the machine run Photoshop 50% faster NO

where is your TOTAL PERFORMANCE ? HUH ?


And NOW to your Pricing bla bla bla ,

When you talk about Price Difference .. here is the comparison is LEGIT , because I am talking about the difference between GPU ONLY , which eliminates the base cost of the REST .. I know Apple build is FAR better , but I am talking about UPGRADE PRICE. here your argument is NULL. because it is not the build Quality here it is Just GPU difference inside.

NOT PROFI
 

JarredWaltonGPU

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yes you are not profi ,

Where is the TOTAL performance ?

Does the machine render 50% faster ? NO

Does the machine runs Desktop [programs 50% faster ? NO

Does the machine run Photoshop 50% faster NO

where is your TOTAL PERFORMANCE ? HUH ?

And NOW to your Pricing bla bla bla ,

When you talk about Price Difference .. here is the comparison is LEGIT , because I am talking about the difference between GPU ONLY , which eliminates the base cost of the REST .. I know Apple build is FAR better , but I am talking about UPGRADE PRICE. here your argument is NULL. because it is not the build Quality here it is Just GPU difference inside.

NOT PROFI
So you're saying we're not professionals, not that this isn't a laptop for professionals? Because all your ranting is basically just your opinion with caps thrown in as though that somehow makes you right. You might want to look at our etiquette policies, where insulting others is frowned upon. What you're saying right now can be summed up as: "You made a comparison I didn't like, so you're not professionals!"

It's obvious the performance comparison given is about graphics performance. If you want a faster GPU in a MacBook Pro, the 5600M is (about) 50% faster than the 5500M. That's not too surprising, really, since the desktop 5600 XT is 50% faster than the desktop 5500 XT 8GB. $600 extra for such an upgrade would be ridiculous on a desktop, but on a laptop? It may feel like extortion, but that's sadly the way of things, particularly with Apple.

It's also worth noting that this 5600M with 8GB HBM2 memory appears to be made specifically for Apple. As in, it's a custom chip (Navi 12), which means it's more expensive to produce than just reusing some existing design. Not $800 expensive, obviously, but Apple has to keep those profit margins high. (That's sarcasm -- Apple charges a premium and everyone knows this.) As the saying goes, if your Apple product ever has issues, just take it to the store and they'll replace it -- since you already paid for two.

Clearly English isn't your first language, so again let me explain that "at a cost" is actually a negative expression. As in, "Sure, it's faster, but the price is arguably too high for what you get." Calling it "impressive" is probably further than I'd take it, but it's the author's right to express that aspect of performance. It is, after all, a 50% upgrade in graphics performance.

What about CPU performance? Well, you'd need to compare it against something. If you just upgrade the GPU, it's 0% faster on the CPU. If you upgrade from a 6-core CPU to an 8-core CPU, it will in some cases be 33% (give or take) faster. That's a $300 upgrade from Apple ... with a 0% improvement in GPU performance. And let me also correct things by noting that it's a $600 upgrade from 5500M to 5600M -- it's $800 from 5300M to 5600M, which is a slightly bigger than 50% improvement in GPU performance. (I've tweaked the text in the article to clarify things.)
 

nofanneeded

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So you're saying we're not professionals, not that this isn't a laptop for professionals? Because all your ranting is basically just your opinion with caps thrown in as though that somehow makes you right. You might want to look at our etiquette policies, where insulting others is frowned upon. What you're saying right now can be summed up as: "You made a comparison I didn't like, so you're not professionals!"

It's obvious the performance comparison given is about graphics performance. If you want a faster GPU in a MacBook Pro, the 5600M is (about) 50% faster than the 5500M. That's not too surprising, really, since the desktop 5600 XT is 50% faster than the desktop 5500 XT 8GB. $600 extra for such an upgrade would be ridiculous on a desktop, but on a laptop? It may feel like extortion, but that's sadly the way of things, particularly with Apple.

It's also worth noting that this 5600M with 8GB HBM2 memory appears to be made specifically for Apple. As in, it's a custom chip (Navi 12), which means it's more expensive to produce than just reusing some existing design. Not $800 expensive, obviously, but Apple has to keep those profit margins high. (That's sarcasm -- Apple charges a premium and everyone knows this.) As the saying goes, if your Apple product ever has issues, just take it to the store and they'll replace it -- since you already paid for two.

Clearly English isn't your first language, so again let me explain that "at a cost" is actually a negative expression. As in, "Sure, it's faster, but the price is arguably too high for what you get." Calling it "impressive" is probably further than I'd take it, but it's the author's right to express that aspect of performance. It is, after all, a 50% upgrade in graphics performance.

What about CPU performance? Well, you'd need to compare it against something. If you just upgrade the GPU, it's 0% faster on the CPU. If you upgrade from a 6-core CPU to an 8-core CPU, it will in some cases be 33% (give or take) faster. That's a $300 upgrade from Apple ... with a 0% improvement in GPU performance. And let me also correct things by noting that it's a $600 upgrade from 5500M to 5600M -- it's $800 from 5300M to 5600M, which is a slightly bigger than 50% improvement in GPU performance. (I've tweaked the text in the article to clarify things.)
stop writing long replies to divert attention from the main reason behind my post.

your post about the pricing and 50% is wrong altogether.

$800 Upgrade over the 5300M is in the range of Quadro RTX 4000 UPGRADE ...

Apple is not justified what so ever and you should write this in your article to make Apple or force them to lower their prices for hardware upgrades. not to say something that justifies it.

You seem out of the picture in the Profi GPU prices, Apple is asking triple the prices for their GPU upgrade and you should mention that, the same they ask triple the price for NVME upgrade ...

NO profi should ignore to say that when talking about Apple pricing. because they Already ask for a high price for the base model for good build quality and good screen and good speasker OKAY we understand that. but the Electronics Upgrade ? over the already expensive base ? why asking triple for that ?

as for the Dell bla bla discount ,, did not you get it yet ? these discounts are the real price ... no one buys outside the discount prices and if you monitor their fake discount over the year you will discover this is not a real discount this is the true price , and if you work in a company and know the price list they send to companies (like I do) you will know that these are fake bluffs .. they just attract you with the discounts every fixed date each month a discount pops up , well this is the true price really and I know it from companies price lists.
father day; mother day , labor day president day bla bla day ... yea RIGHT ...

Apple is good in this particular thing they dont fool people about fake discounts to attract them to buy.

no back to the pricing , RTX 4000 Quadro is the $800 upgrade (I know from price lists )

and since it is confidential and I cant source I will give you a hint about prices ..

look at the specs and price of this unit on b&h with RTX 5000 (NOT 4000!!!) Quadro 16GB , 2 TB Nvme , 48 GB DDR4 and 4k 100% colors monitor and a workstation unit , $3999

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1528017-REG/asus_w500g5t_xs77_ic_i7_9750h_48gb_rtx5000_1tb_w10_15_6.html

This is the most expensive line from ASUS ... and a workstation high end class ...

try to get price lists for "upgrades" from Dell and HP and others you will be shocked. or try to customize and see the price difference with discounts not regular price. add a $350 for the base 5300M to know the price from no Dis.GPU .. that is 800+350 = $1150

have a nice day and thanks
 
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JarredWaltonGPU

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stop writing long replies to divert attention from the main reason behind my post.

your post about the pricing and 50% is wrong altogether.

$800 Upgrade over the 5300M is in the range of Quadro RTX 4000 UPGRADE ...

Apple is not justified what so ever and you should write this in your article to make Apple or force them to lower their prices for hardware upgrades. not to say something that justifies it.

You seem out of the picture in the Profi GPU prices, Apple is asking triple the prices for their GPU upgrade and you should mention that, the same they ask triple the price for NVME upgrade ...

NO profi should ignore to say that when talking about Apple pricing. because they Already ask for a high price for the base model for good build quality and good screen and good speasker OKAY we understand that. but the Electronics Upgrade ? over the already expensive base ? why asking triple for that ?

as for the Dell bla bla discount ,, did not you get it yet ? these discounts are the real price ... no one buys outside the discount prices and if you monitor their fake discount over the year you will discover this is not a real discount this is the true price , and if you work in a company and know the price list they send to companies (like I do) you will know that these are fake bluffs .. they just attract you with hte discounts every fixed date each month a discount pops up , well this is the true price really and I know it from companies price lists.

Apple is good in this particular thing they dont fool people about fake discounts to attract them to buy.

no back to the pricing , RTX 4000 Quadro is the $800 upgrade (I know from price lists )

and since it is confidential and I cant source I will give you a hint about prices ..

look at the specs and price of this unit on b&h with RTX 5000 (|NOT 4000!!!) Quadro 16GB , 2 TB Nvme , 48 GB DDR4 and 4k 100% colors monitor and a workstation unit , $3999

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1528017-REG/asus_w500g5t_xs77_ic_i7_9750h_48gb_rtx5000_1tb_w10_15_6.html

This is the most expensive from ASUS ... and a workstation high end class ...

try to get price lists for "upgrades" from Dell and HP and others you will be shocked. or try to customize and see the price difference with discounts not regular price. add a $350 for the base 5300M to know the price from no Dis.GPU .. that is 800+350 = $1150

have a nice day and thanks
Again, all of that is purely your opinion. Apple can charge whatever Apple wants. Most of us think Apple laptops cost too much, but there are MILLIONS of Apple users that apparently disagree. But they're all completely wrong and "not profi" because you disagree!

"You should write this in your article to make Apple or force them to lower their prices for hardware upgrades." LOL. Seriously, I'm shaking my head at your naivety here. No one other than the people that buy Apple products can 'force' Apple to do anything. Get all those millions (TENS of millions!) of Apple users to stop paying massive price premiums and then Apple might listen. It doesn't matter what Dell or HP or Asus or anyone else charges for a Quadro RTX because: 1) this isn't Quadro; 2) this is Apple; 3) the two don't overlap. Hell, you can't even configure a Mac Pro workstation with a Quadro RTX right now.

Anyway, I'm done with your insulting comments. We are professionals, and as such we know the difference between a news post and a full review. "At a price," as already stated, implies -- right in the headline -- that the part is too expensive. And tons of people will be willing to pay for it, regardless of what you or I might think. Slapping on 8GB of HBM2 instead of going with 8GB of GDDR6 probably costs an extra $100 or so on the BOM sheets, which means right there you get about a $300-$400 increase in final pricing from Apple. This is the same Apple that charges $400 to put wheels on a case (and that's after dropping the price).

PS: Welcome to my "ignore" list. Only a select few show the tenacity to get explicitly blocked from my view. It will save me lots of time in the long run, as arguing with a brick wall is more productive.
 
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nofanneeded

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Again, all of that is purely your opinion. Apple can charge whatever Apple wants. Most of us think Apple laptops cost too much, but there are MILLIONS of Apple users that apparently disagree. But they're all completely wrong and "not profi" because you disagree!

"You should write this in your article to make Apple or force them to lower their prices for hardware upgrades." LOL. Seriously, I'm shaking my head at your naivety here. No one other than the people that buy Apple products can 'force' Apple to do anything. Get all those millions (TENS of millions!) of Apple users to stop paying massive price premiums and then Apple might listen. It doesn't matter what Dell or HP or Asus or anyone else charges for a Quadro RTX because: 1) this isn't Quadro; 2) this is Apple; 3) the two don't overlap. Hell, you can't even configure a Mac Pro workstation with a Quadro RTX right now.

Anyway, I'm done with your insulting comments. We are professionals, and as such we know the difference between a news post and a full review. "At a price," as already stated, implies -- right in the headline -- that the part is too expensive. And tons of people will be willing to pay for it, regardless of what you or I might think. Slapping on 8GB of HBM2 instead of going with 8GB of GDDR6 probably costs an extra $100 or so on the BOM sheets, which means right there you get about a $300-$400 increase in final pricing from Apple. This is the same Apple that charges $400 to put wheels on a case (and that's after dropping the price).
calling you not profi is not insulting. and surprise , "this is not a Qaudro" way feom you to twist it is agains you , because Quadros are more expensive and better than AMD workstation units .. and you and I know this. and the RTX one not the T Quadros.

anyways no wonder why people are moving to Anandtech the real site .. Tomshardware turned into a non profi site ...
 
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@nofanneeded you see the problem is this, your argument is the same argument used over and over again anytime Apple try and boost GPU, which is this is the equivalent of a2060 which is way cheaper etc...

However let me explain something using my own personal experience, for my work I choose to use an Apple computer why because the software for the most part, I work in education, and I use it for classroom based materials basic video editing etc, I am also a musician and use the software which is amazing for music creation. So to me I will always need a Mac, there is nothing wrong with Windows I game so I have a windows PC, its sitting on my desk right now and its big unsightly and I would love to get rid of it but since 2005/6 there has not been an option I would say for Apple to have a product line that does everything. Now I am eagerly awaiting the launch of the New iMac on Monday which I hope will also have new navi 21 custom AMD cards, however.

The price premium, is as you correct, in a normal state 800 is a lot for a card but to me its CHEAP why, because I dont have to spend money now on either upgrading a pc or buying the new ps5 (although I probably will) to play games, I will have a genuinely all round machine that I can do everything on, I also want need to go down the silly road of EGPU which costs about the same for 5700XT. So to sit there and denounce every situation where a product is expensive because another product on a different system which cannot do what me as user needs is potentially cheaper or better value, completely invalidates your argument. No-one here is denying there is an Apple tax on products, no-one here is saying that this card is in itself value for money, but for people like me in the situation I find myself it represents a substantial saving when I consider my tech budget going forward for the next few years.

Perhaps you should consider this, there are plenty of people who like you, will be motivated to buy only the best power to performance to price ratio and they are perfectly free to but the comprimise of having to use PC based programs and an operating system I am not keen on aswell as the awful sprawling nature of office is a price far too high when I can get a machine like this which plays games to a reasonable standard in both OS X and windows, and allows me to so all my other tasks and a very high standard.
 

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