News AMD's Upcoming Socket AM5 for Raphael Processors to Lack PCIe 5.0 Support

Spectre4444

Commendable
Aug 4, 2019
20
6
1,515
0
so Intel says "we are going to have new chip that is bigger, stronger and faster" EXCEPT -- It is not available yet in any form, uses a new architecture that requires a Global Partner level non-trivial unproven changes to take effect. and even if it did, as was pointed out we currently don't use all of PCIe 4.0. - basically anything to cause a rollout delay ! I for one will be very happy to work with a new AMD based computer, even at the expense of PCIe 5.0 if for no other reason than "it" will actually exist in the near future.
 
Apr 1, 2020
347
162
860
0
The problem with lacking PCIe 5 is that it's not as "future proof" as it could be, plus the doubled bandwidth would give manufacturers the ability to incorporate more M.2 slots while being able to retain x8 electrical on the slots.
 

Kamen Rider Blade

Distinguished
Dec 2, 2013
298
138
18,860
0
I think the connection between the CPU and the AM5 Chipset should've been bumped up to PCIe 5.0, then you have more bandwidth to be able to run more of your connected peripherals simultaneously.

Other than that, PCIe 5.0 isn't going to be utilitized properly during this generation or anywhere in the near future.

Graphics cards aren't going to saturate it.

Only the Top End Storage might potentially saturate it.

But that's reserved for the absolutely best NVMe drives only, most consumers can't afford it.
 

ddcservices

Reputable
Oct 12, 2017
29
11
4,535
0
The problem with lacking PCIe 5 is that it's not as "future proof" as it could be, plus the doubled bandwidth would give manufacturers the ability to incorporate more M.2 slots while being able to retain x8 electrical on the slots.
There are two sides to this, what can the socket provide, and what can the CPU provide. When the move to PCIe 4.0 hit, motherboard prices jumped by $200 for that extra support, and a LOT of people complained about it. There is a fair amount going on that puts into question the exact standards that the socket and processors will support. AMD uses that I/O die, so could release different versions based on the CPU sold. CPU-only without graphics may offer more PCIe lanes for example.

AMD is also the type to release different specs to different companies early on to identify the source of leaks. Picture one set of specs given to one company and another to another company. Any leaks would identify which company the leak came from. Since AMD has not given ANY timeline for new products at this point, we may be seeing some AMD strategy here as well...set Intel and NVIDIA up to put out official specs for new products, wait for them, and then release and adjust its own offerings.
 

ddcservices

Reputable
Oct 12, 2017
29
11
4,535
0
I think the connection between the CPU and the AM5 Chipset should've been bumped up to PCIe 5.0, then you have more bandwidth to be able to run more of your connected peripherals simultaneously.
AMD used Infinity Fabric, not PCIe for that interconnect. If anything, AMD is really gearing up to just have PCIe hang off an Infinity Architecture system design where there is a system fabric that everything links into. Look into the Gen-Z Consortium for more information on this approach.
 

Kamen Rider Blade

Distinguished
Dec 2, 2013
298
138
18,860
0
AMD used Infinity Fabric, not PCIe for that interconnect. If anything, AMD is really gearing up to just have PCIe hang off an Infinity Architecture system design where there is a system fabric that everything links into. Look into the Gen-Z Consortium for more information on this approach.
That may be true on the Enterprise side in HPC setups, however...

On the consumer end, it's going to be PCIe as PHY connection for the MoBo's we buy.

That isn't going to change anytime soon.
 

Alex/AT

Commendable
Aug 11, 2019
22
13
1,515
0
That may be true on the Enterprise side in HPC setups, however...
On the consumer end, it's going to be PCIe as PHY connection for the MoBo's we buy.
That isn't going to change anytime soon.
The thing is, I actually agree with ddcservices. In such an architecture mobo, PCIe can be just one of the endpoints of IF, situated close to PCIe slots themselves, and providing as much PCIe x.y lanes as the slot itself needs.
 

2Be_or_Not2Be

Distinguished
Aug 23, 2013
990
58
19,440
115
I sure hope AMD adds PCIe 5.0 support to their AM5 platform. It's not a question of "can I use it now" - it's going to be part of the feature scorecard against Intel. If Alder Lake boards all say "PCIe 5.0 compatible/ready", then it's going to have the perception that it's better. We see it all the time in marketing - higher number must be better, even if it's not even used.

I'm sure AM5 is being designed for many years of use, just like AM4. So you would think that it would make sense to have built-in support from the beginning. I know that it would be a factor in purchasing for myself, even if I'm not currently using it. If there is something that might be able to use it, whether GPU/storage/whatever, I'd rather have the support already there instead of having to buy another board.
 

ddcservices

Reputable
Oct 12, 2017
29
11
4,535
0
That may be true on the Enterprise side in HPC setups, however...

On the consumer end, it's going to be PCIe as PHY connection for the MoBo's we buy.

That isn't going to change anytime soon.
AMD uses Infinity Fabric to link various components together internally, but with the PCIe controller on the CPU direct to slots and such. Since you were talking CPU to chipset, that would probably be Infinity Fabric, while RAM, and PCIe connections go to the CPU directly.

Infinity Architecture on the other hand is still server only, but in time will probably make its way to the consumer space. At that point, the PCIe slots and elements would link into the system fabric, with the controller still being CPU based, but the actual connections being the system fabric, including each PCIe slot.
 

Kamen Rider Blade

Distinguished
Dec 2, 2013
298
138
18,860
0
Since you were talking CPU to chipset, that would probably be Infinity Fabric, while RAM, and PCIe connections go to the CPU directly
Infinity Fabric isn't used at that point.

https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3482-amd-x570-vs-x470-x370-chipset-comparison

Look carefully at the Block Diagram, AMD uses straight PCIe connection to connect to the X570 Chipset.

The Connection point on the end of the PCIe lane that communicates with the cIOD (Central I/O Die) uses Infinity Fabric to communicate internally on the cIOD.

The actual PHY connection to the X570 along with the protocols is pure PCIe.

You're getting confused as to where Infinity Fabric is being used.

Infinity Architecture on the other hand is still server only, but in time will probably make its way to the consumer space. At that point, the PCIe slots and elements would link into the system fabric, with the controller still being CPU based, but the actual connections being the system fabric, including each PCIe slot.
Let me know if AMD ever wants to or sees a need to bring Infinity Architecture to the consumer space.

As of this point, it's Enterprise and HPC only. So it doesn't really affect us regular PC users in the consumer world.

I don't see a reason why they would ever bring that tech to the consumer, we wouldn't really benefit from it since we're not running complicated server setups that Infinity Architecture was meant for.
 
Reactions: TJ Hooker

Sleepy_Hollowed

Reputable
Jan 1, 2017
139
35
4,610
0
Anyone complaining about lanes that doesn't use a full case ATX or E-ATX should just stop talking about this topic because it's nonsense.

I use PCIE 3 on everything but the GPU and one SSD, and I have zero issues, on a full case, with everything else saturated (one other m.2 PCIE 3 SSD, 5 3.5 HDDs).

Definitively a smart move from AMD, and they can perhaps later do a refresh for the "Pro" CPUs that has 5.0 that will probably have the niche premium.
 

tommo1982

Distinguished
Dec 5, 2010
48
22
18,535
0
The problem with lacking PCIe 5 is that it's not as "future proof" as it could be, plus the doubled bandwidth would give manufacturers the ability to incorporate more M.2 slots while being able to retain x8 electrical on the slots.
AMD wanted to be first with PCIe 4.0 and we got half baked implementation. The majority of users won't care about PCIe 5.0. People have budgets and let's be honest, only enthusiasts care about it and only small portion of them really need it. The rest want it to be first.
 
Reactions: artk2219 and prtskg
so Intel says "we are going to have new chip that is bigger, stronger and faster" EXCEPT -- It is not available yet in any form, uses a new architecture that requires a Global Partner level non-trivial unproven changes to take effect. and even if it did, as was pointed out we currently don't use all of PCIe 4.0. - basically anything to cause a rollout delay ! I for one will be very happy to work with a new AMD based computer, even at the expense of PCIe 5.0 if for no other reason than "it" will actually exist in the near future.
Were you under the impression that the AM5 release was even remotely 'semi-imminent' (as in, before 2022-Q4)?
 

dalek1234

Commendable
Sep 27, 2019
64
19
1,535
0
I think it's smart on AMD's part to stick with PCIe 4 on the consumer side. As a consumer, I don't want motherboards to go up in price because of PCIe 5 (which I don't need).

Intel, on the other hand, will brag about having PCIe 5, even if most of us don't actually need it yet. And this bragging will be smoke-a nd-mirrors thing, because motherboard manufacturers won't add PCIe 5 in most mobos. So what if the CPU supports PCIe 5 if mobo doen't implement it.

Intel is trying to sell us a turrd with a supercharger, but the supercharger never spins at the advertised speed, and ever if it does, the speed limit on this BS Highway is 30 km/h
 

Kamen Rider Blade

Distinguished
Dec 2, 2013
298
138
18,860
0
Intel, on the other hand, will brag about having PCIe 5, even if most of us don't actually need it yet. And this bragging will be smoke-a nd-mirrors thing, because motherboard manufacturers won't add PCIe 5 in most mobos. So what if the CPU supports PCIe 5 if mobo doen't implement it.

Intel is trying to sell us a turrd with a supercharger, but the supercharger never spins at the advertised speed, and ever if it does, the speed limit on this BS Highway is 30 km/h
Even if Intel adds PCIe 5.0, the MoBo makers will be the ones taking the hit on BoM cost and pass that cost along to the consumer.

Then the average consumer will want to know why their MoBo's are so expensive, and we can all point to Intel and say, "Blame Intel".
 

escksu

Respectable
Aug 8, 2019
482
171
1,860
0
I think the connection between the CPU and the AM5 Chipset should've been bumped up to PCIe 5.0, then you have more bandwidth to be able to run more of your connected peripherals simultaneously.

Other than that, PCIe 5.0 isn't going to be utilitized properly during this generation or anywhere in the near future.

Graphics cards aren't going to saturate it.

Only the Top End Storage might potentially saturate it.

But that's reserved for the absolutely best NVMe drives only, most consumers can't afford it.
You sure?? Actually resizable bar and sam could benefit greatly from pcie 5.0, so this means next gen gpus does work well on pcie 5.0
 

Kamen Rider Blade

Distinguished
Dec 2, 2013
298
138
18,860
0
You sure?? Actually resizable bar and sam could benefit greatly from pcie 5.0, so this means next gen gpus does work well on pcie 5.0
Based on all the leaks that I'm hearing:

That would require RDNA 3 to come with PCIe 5.0, which I don't think they will.

They'll stick to 4.0 for that generation.

I don't think PCIe 5.0 is going to come to RDNA until RDNA 4 at the earliest.
 

escksu

Respectable
Aug 8, 2019
482
171
1,860
0
I think it's smart on AMD's part to stick with PCIe 4 on the consumer side. As a consumer, I don't want motherboards to go up in price because of PCIe 5 (which I don't need).

Intel, on the other hand, will brag about having PCIe 5, even if most of us don't actually need it yet. And this bragging will be smoke-a nd-mirrors thing, because motherboard manufacturers won't add PCIe 5 in most mobos. So what if the CPU supports PCIe 5 if mobo doen't implement it.

Intel is trying to sell us a turrd with a supercharger, but the supercharger never spins at the advertised speed, and ever if it does, the speed limit on this BS Highway is 30 km/h
Nobody needs pcie 4.0 when it was first launched by AMD.....
 
Reactions: TJ Hooker

escksu

Respectable
Aug 8, 2019
482
171
1,860
0
Based on all the leaks that I'm hearing:

That would require RDNA 3 to come with PCIe 5.0, which I don't think they will.

They'll stick to 4.0 for that generation.

I don't think PCIe 5.0 is going to come to RDNA until RDNA 4 at the earliest.
The next generation gpus may suppprt pcie 5.0, we dont know yet. Also, the real bottleneck today is the link between cpu and chipset.
 

tiggers97

Distinguished
Apr 28, 2013
53
16
18,545
2
We are only just now starting to see competition in PCIe 4.0 peripherals, and the benefits are really not that great over PCIe 3.0 for 95% of people. By the time the market is saturated, like we are now with PCIe 3.0 devices, PCIe 6.0 or 7.0 will be talked about as the latest and greatest. Focusing on one standard, and getting it right, will benefit the market a lot more than trying to implement the latest and greatest iteration. If AMD skips PCIe 5.0 till AM6 (or even AM7?), I don't think it will have much impact on their bottom line.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY

TRENDING THREADS