News An EPYC Miss? Microsoft Azure Instances Pair AMD's MI300X With Intel's Sapphire Rapids

[Admin]

Unfortunately for AMD, 4th Generation EPYC Genoa chips aren't quite cut out for Azure.

An EPYC Miss? Microsoft Azure Instances Pair AMD's MI300X With Intel's Sapphire Rapids : Read more

 

[George³]

Hmm, according to this article AMD must have models Epyc Genoa with AI capabilities?

 

[bit_user]

Not sure AMX is a big driver, since any processing where that would provide a big advantage would better be done on the GPU.

Single-threaded performance is a plausible explanation, but I also wonder if it has anything to do with Intel's Xeon Max models (i.e. which include up to 64 GB of HBM). Or, maybe it's just that too many customers still have Intel-centric middleware / management infrastructure.

It'd sure be interesting to know, since Genoa X would seem a natural fit, with all its cores, L3 cache, memory bandwidth, and PCIe lanes.

 

[2Be_or_Not2Be]

I'd be far more willing to believe that Nvidia took the business decision of using Intel CPUs instead of AMD EPYC CPUs w/their DGX systems, just so they don't benefit their competitor. EPYC mostly beats Sapphire Rapids on a perf/watt basis, so don't think that's a detractor. Intel's instruction set doesn't seem like it's the big reason either, if the AI loads are running primarily on the GPUs.

 

[thestryker]

There are a lot of specific reasons to use one over the other, but I wonder how many were already planned before Intel had the late vulnerability which required them to delay SPR release and re-ramp high volume.

but I also wonder if it has anything to do with Intel's Xeon Max models (i.e. which include up to 64 GB of HBM).

It's not this for Microsoft they're using Xeon 8480C CPUs which is likely a semi-custom design for them.

 

[phitinh81]

The main reason is MSFT got great deal on these Xeon, same as Nvidia did with DGX system. People running these VM for GPU intensive tasks like training AI models, top tier CPU is a waste. This is basic knowledge. Twisting it to Intel's favor is silly.

 

[cyrusfox]

The main reason is MSFT got great deal on these Xeon, same as Nvidia did with DGX system. People running these VM for GPU intensive tasks like training AI models, top tier CPU is a waste. This is basic knowledge. Twisting it to Intel's favor is silly.

How is it twisting it? For Nvidia clear decision, for Microsoft who is already using AMD GPU, its a bit perplexing to put it on Intel. This is a rare win for Intel on the server/datacenter side so an article like this is warranted.

The reason they both chose Intel I imagine is due to a combination of price(economics) and platform support/stability rather than it being feature or performance base for what is essentially AI heavy machines. AMD does not care to lower margins to compete, and they likely don't need to , probably supply constrained on more lucrative datacenter contracts.

 

[phitinh81]

How is it twisting it? For Nvidia clear decision, for Microsoft who is already using AMD GPU, its a bit perplexing to put it on Intel. This is a rare win for Intel on the server/datacenter side so an article like this is warranted.

The reason they both chose Intel I imagine is due to a combination of price(economics) and platform support/stability rather than it being feature or performance base for what is essentially AI heavy machines. AMD does not care to lower margins to compete, and they likely don't need to , probably supply constrained on more lucrative datacenter contracts.

Intel is selling Xeon at or below cost. Their financial report on Data Center is hard proof. This article questioning the choice MSFT & Nvidia made without pointing out the obvious: price & function of CPU on these machines. If that is not twisting or should i say misleading ? Article of course warranted as a moral boost Intel's server business badly needed. As always

 

[TerryLaze]

This is a rare win for Intel on the server/datacenter side so an article like this is warranted.

AMD has barely a 25% market share, on revenue, compared to intel, rare is...not that.

AMD Comes Roaring Back, Gains Market Share in Laptops, PCs and Server CPUs

AMD gains share amid slow market recovery in Q3 2023.

www.tomshardware.com

AMD does not care to lower margins to compete, and they likely don't need to , probably supply constrained on more lucrative datacenter contracts.

And yet they reduced their margins on data center by a huge amount, the operating income dropped to less than half of what it was compared to last year.
This is the 9 months ending comparison, almost the same revenue but far less actual money they made from that, that is called lower margin.

AMD Reports Third Quarter 2023 Financial Results

Browse AMD’s company-wide and financial press releases.

ir.amd.com

Segment and Category Information(1)
Data Center
Net revenue													$	4,214			$	4,388
Operating income													$	601			$	1,404

 

[bit_user]

And yet they reduced their margins on data center by a huge amount, the operating income dropped to less than half of what it was compared to last year.

It's not clear how much of that was due to price reductions vs. cost increases. The list price of Genoa models extends higher than Milan, so even having the same revenue suggests some loss of volume.

 

[NinoPino]

Intel is selling Xeon at or below cost..

No company sell actual products below cost, it is suicidal. May be low margins.
For the rest I agree with your considerations.

Their financial report on Data Center is hard proof. This article questioning the choice MSFT & Nvidia made without pointing out the obvious: price & function of CPU on these machines. If that is not twisting or should i say misleading ? Article of course warranted as a moral boost Intel's server business badly needed. As always

 

[bit_user]

No company sell actual products below cost, it is suicidal. May be low margins.

There are exceptional circumstances where it does happen. Imagine you have some inventory that's depreciating. If you price it aggressively, you can sell it now and get more than you probably would if you held the line on pricing and sold less and less, until you finally had to liquidate whatever remained.

Plus, inventory takes up storage space and needs to be carried on the books, which makes the company's financials look bad. If the company is already having a down quarter, it might make sense just to do some aggressive discounting or even inventory liquidation so that all of the bad news stays confined to that quarter and doesn't continue to dribble out of successive quarters.

 

[NinoPino]

In a perfect world I like to see Tom's Hardware contact AMD for a comment on the lost of this two important orders. What would be the reply ? 🤔

 

[TerryLaze]

It's not clear how much of that was due to price reductions vs. cost increases.

Is there a reason for it to be clear, is that going to tell us something?!
Either way, they lost margin which was the thing we were talking about.

The list price of Genoa models extends higher than Milan, so even having the same revenue suggests some loss of volume.

That would suggest that AMD has an even lower market share and that intel getting a win is even more common.

 

[bit_user]

Is there a reason for it to be clear, is that going to tell us something?!
Either way, they lost margin which was the thing we were talking about.

It's somewhat relevant if their selling price is decreasing vs. their costs going up, because one is more downstream-influenced while the other is more about upstream.

That would suggest that AMD has an even lower market share and that intel getting a win is even more common.

You assume the market size is the same as before. If the entire market hasn't recovered, then the sales volume for both could both be down.

 

[thestryker]

You assume the market size is the same as before. If the entire market hasn't recovered, then the sales volume for both could both be down.

I believe this is the case where the market as a whole is still recovering and Intel is also regaining some lost share.

I think people forget the lead time on a lot of these buys and that SPR was already put into high volume when the last problem was found. Even with all of the known delays Intel should have beaten AMD to the market with PCIe 5.0 by ~4-6mo and none of us knows how many contracts are directly related to that.