Analogue Video Capture Cards

Rich

Distinguished
Mar 31, 2004
943
0
18,980
Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

Can anyone recommend from experience a decent, reasonably priced capture
card for analogue video that would be ok for winxp on a uk system?

Opinions of a negative nature would also be welcome to avoid buying
something that may be cheap but rubbish.


TIA

Rich
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

Check out the Canopus ACEDVio. Converts analog to DV and is also a A/B
Firewire card.

Mine is in the mail. I'll flame it here if it ain't worth a flip! :)

Otherwise, I'm using an ATI Radeon 9000 All-in-Wonder graphics card to
capture to MPEG-2.

HTH,

f_f


"Rich" <RL@sorrybutidontwantspam.com> wrote in message
news:cbeala$7e0$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
> Can anyone recommend from experience a decent, reasonably priced capture
> card for analogue video that would be ok for winxp on a uk system?
>
> Opinions of a negative nature would also be welcome to avoid buying
> something that may be cheap but rubbish.
>
>
> TIA
>
> Rich
>
>
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

Rich wrote:

> Can anyone recommend from experience a decent, reasonably priced capture
> card for analogue video that would be ok for winxp on a uk system?

I'm quite happy with my recently acquired Pinnacle
Studio AV/DV 9. (US$ 100)

Carlos
--
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

Jan Panteltje wrote:
>
> **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com ****
>
> On a sunny day (Thu, 24 Jun 2004 10:33:15 +0000 (UTC)) it happened "Rich"
> <RL@sorrybutidontwantspam.com> wrote in
> <cbeala$7e0$1@hercules.btinternet.com>:
>
> >Can anyone recommend from experience a decent, reasonably priced capture
> >card for analogue video that would be ok for winxp on a uk system?
> >
> >Opinions of a negative nature would also be welcome to avoid buying
> >something that may be cheap but rubbish.
> >
> >
> >TIA
> >
> >Rich
> It depends on what you want to do, encode directly to mpeg2, or store
> in some YUV format, and / or perhaps use DivX codec?

I assume you mean (...) or store in some RGB format, right (cause
mpeg2/divx is YUV)? Or do you mean huffyuv/mjpeg?

Wilbert
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

On a sunny day (Thu, 24 Jun 2004 13:51:43 +0200) it happened Wilbert Dijkhof
<w.j.dijkhof@tue.nl> wrote in <40DAC04F.E3ECE1F1@tue.nl>:

>
>
>Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>
>> **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com ****
>>
>> On a sunny day (Thu, 24 Jun 2004 10:33:15 +0000 (UTC)) it happened "Rich"
>> <RL@sorrybutidontwantspam.com> wrote in
>> <cbeala$7e0$1@hercules.btinternet.com>:
>>
>> >Can anyone recommend from experience a decent, reasonably priced capture
>> >card for analogue video that would be ok for winxp on a uk system?
>> >
>> >Opinions of a negative nature would also be welcome to avoid buying
>> >something that may be cheap but rubbish.
>> >
>> >
>> >TIA
>> >
>> >Rich
>> It depends on what you want to do, encode directly to mpeg2, or store
>> in some YUV format, and / or perhaps use DivX codec?
>
>I assume you mean (...) or store in some RGB format, right (cause
>mpeg2/divx is YUV)? Or do you mean huffyuv/mjpeg?
mpeg2 /and DivX is not raw YUV, although the processing is done in YUV.
Storing raw RGB is very very space inefficient.
Normally, if you decode PAl or NTSC you get Y and U and V, because that
is the way the colors are transferred (U and V are bandwidth limited).
Converting that to RGB and storing would have no advantage, only be slower
and take more space.
JP
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

Jan Panteltje wrote:
>
> On a sunny day (Thu, 24 Jun 2004 13:51:43 +0200) it happened Wilbert Dijkhof
> <w.j.dijkhof@tue.nl> wrote in <40DAC04F.E3ECE1F1@tue.nl>:
>
> >
> >
> >Jan Panteltje wrote:
> >>
> >> **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com ****
> >>
> >> On a sunny day (Thu, 24 Jun 2004 10:33:15 +0000 (UTC)) it happened "Rich"
> >> <RL@sorrybutidontwantspam.com> wrote in
> >> <cbeala$7e0$1@hercules.btinternet.com>:
> >> It depends on what you want to do, encode directly to mpeg2, or store
> >> in some YUV format, and / or perhaps use DivX codec?
> >
> >I assume you mean (...) or store in some RGB format, right (cause
> >mpeg2/divx is YUV)? Or do you mean huffyuv/mjpeg?
> mpeg2 /and DivX is not raw YUV,

I know, I didn't claim otherwise. I don't see the word raw
in your text above. So, I was just wondering what you meant by
*some* YUV format.

But, capping raw YUV is not an option, unless you have a 1 TB hard
drive. I guess we have to wait a year before we can buy those :)

> although the processing is done in YUV.
> Storing raw RGB is very very space inefficient.
> Normally, if you decode PAl or NTSC you get Y and U and V, because that
> is the way the colors are transferred (U and V are bandwidth limited).
> Converting that to RGB and storing would have no advantage, only be slower
> and take more space.

Yes, I agree (except for the detail that NTSC -> YIQ).

Wilbert
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

On a sunny day (Thu, 24 Jun 2004 15:28:14 +0200) it happened Wilbert Dijkhof
<w.j.dijkhof@tue.nl> wrote in <40DAD6EE.8DB04FEB@tue.nl>:

>
>
>Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>
>> On a sunny day (Thu, 24 Jun 2004 13:51:43 +0200) it happened Wilbert Dijkhof
>> <w.j.dijkhof@tue.nl> wrote in <40DAC04F.E3ECE1F1@tue.nl>:
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> >>
>> >> **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com ****
>> >>
>> >> On a sunny day (Thu, 24 Jun 2004 10:33:15 +0000 (UTC)) it happened "Rich"
>> >> <RL@sorrybutidontwantspam.com> wrote in
>> >> <cbeala$7e0$1@hercules.btinternet.com>:
>> >> It depends on what you want to do, encode directly to mpeg2, or store
>> >> in some YUV format, and / or perhaps use DivX codec?
>> >
>> >I assume you mean (...) or store in some RGB format, right (cause
>> >mpeg2/divx is YUV)? Or do you mean huffyuv/mjpeg?
>> mpeg2 /and DivX is not raw YUV,
>
>I know, I didn't claim otherwise. I don't see the word raw
>in your text above. So, I was just wondering what you meant by
>*some* YUV format.
>
>But, capping raw YUV is not an option, unless you have a 1 TB hard
>drive. I guess we have to wait a year before we can buy those :)
>
>> although the processing is done in YUV.
>> Storing raw RGB is very very space inefficient.
>> Normally, if you decode PAl or NTSC you get Y and U and V, because that
>> is the way the colors are transferred (U and V are bandwidth limited).
>> Converting that to RGB and storing would have no advantage, only be slower
>> and take more space.
>
>Yes, I agree (except for the detail that NTSC -> YIQ).
>
>Wilbert
Not exactly, I will try to reference your points.
hufyuv is also a variant of YUV, but compressed in a way (lossless).
But MPEG2 and DivX are atotally different beast, these have lossy compression,
use intermediate / predicted frames, cosine transform, motion vectors.
So, alhough processing is done in YUV space 9that is to say the color is
processed apart from the luminance), it is not really the old YUV we started
with anymore (and you cannot get the exact original back).
With huffman and raw you can.
As for the 1 terabyte, this is simply not true.
Look up Linux mjepgtools, or my soft:
http://ip51cf87c4.direct-adsl.nl/panteltje/subtitles/
For some practical calculation, you are .nl, in PAL land.
Say we have a good original, 720x576 at 25 fps.
The Y luminance is 8 bits per pixel, so one byte per pixel.
So for Y we have bytes per frame 720 x 256 = 414720 bytes per frame.
U and V each have 1/4 of that (sequence recorded is YUYV) so together 1/2 = 207360 bytes / frame .
So total bytes per frame is no 414720 + 207360 = 622080.
per second 622080 * 25 = 155 520 000 = 155.5 MB
In an hour 3600 * 155 = 2.4 TB only.
This does not fit on a floppy, so we compress it with for example Huffman algo,
to huffyuv.
(In fact any run length encoding would already greatly reduce size,
you could even on the fly zip it if your PC was fast enough).
The result is the 'some YUV format' I referred to in the first post.
So, still YUV, and lossless compression.
Then later you can encode that to any other lossy format (MPEG2 DivX, VP6, whatever).
Note mjpeg is also not lossless it is simply jepg coding.

Yes NTSC is IQ, but those are still color difference signals, and after
the decoding matrix processing metyhod is the same as UV.
The IQ vectors are about 30 degrees rotated, but that is a different story.

JP
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

Jan Panteltje wrote:
>
> On a sunny day (Thu, 24 Jun 2004 15:28:14 +0200) it happened Wilbert Dijkhof
> <w.j.dijkhof@tue.nl> wrote in <40DAD6EE.8DB04FEB@tue.nl>:
>
> >Jan Panteltje wrote:
> >>
> >> >I assume you mean (...) or store in some RGB format, right (cause
> >> >mpeg2/divx is YUV)? Or do you mean huffyuv/mjpeg?
> >> mpeg2 /and DivX is not raw YUV,
> >
> >I know, I didn't claim otherwise. I don't see the word raw
> >in your text above. So, I was just wondering what you meant by
> >*some* YUV format.
> >
> >But, capping raw YUV is not an option, unless you have a 1 TB hard
> >drive. I guess we have to wait a year before we can buy those :)
> >
> >> although the processing is done in YUV.
> >> Storing raw RGB is very very space inefficient.
> >> Normally, if you decode PAl or NTSC you get Y and U and V, because that
> >> is the way the colors are transferred (U and V are bandwidth limited).
> >> Converting that to RGB and storing would have no advantage, only be slower
> >> and take more space.
> >
> >Yes, I agree (except for the detail that NTSC -> YIQ).
> >
> >Wilbert
> Not exactly, I will try to reference your points.
> hufyuv is also a variant of YUV, but compressed in a way (lossless).
> But MPEG2 and DivX are atotally different beast, these have lossy compression,
> use intermediate / predicted frames, cosine transform, motion vectors.
> So, alhough processing is done in YUV space 9that is to say the color is
> processed apart from the luminance), it is not really the old YUV we started
> with anymore (and you cannot get the exact original back).
> With huffman and raw you can.

I know all that. Did I say anywhere that MPEG2/DivX/mjpeg is lossless or
that huffyuv is lossy?

> As for the 1 terabyte, this is simply not true.

C'mon that was just an optimistic estimate, just to get an idea how much
space we were talking about. I even forgot to mention the length of the
capture, so I don't know why you said it's false.

(...)

> The result is the 'some YUV format' I referred to in the first post.
> So, still YUV, and lossless compression.

Why did you start talking about raw YUV then? Or was it a typo, and you
meant lossless YUV?

> Then later you can encode that to any other lossy format (MPEG2 DivX, VP6, whatever).
> Note mjpeg is also not lossless it is simply jepg coding.

I know ...

Btw, DivX has no interlace option, so I wouldn't use that for capping.
In
that case you can better use ffvfw.

Wilbert
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

On a sunny day (Thu, 24 Jun 2004 16:28:41 +0200) it happened Wilbert Dijkhof
<w.j.dijkhof@tue.nl> wrote in <40DAE519.C2D42A07@tue.nl>:

>
>
>Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>
>> On a sunny day (Thu, 24 Jun 2004 15:28:14 +0200) it happened Wilbert Dijkhof
>> <w.j.dijkhof@tue.nl> wrote in <40DAD6EE.8DB04FEB@tue.nl>:
>>
>> >Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >I assume you mean (...) or store in some RGB format, right (cause
>> >> >mpeg2/divx is YUV)? Or do you mean huffyuv/mjpeg?
>> >> mpeg2 /and DivX is not raw YUV,
>> >
>> >I know, I didn't claim otherwise. I don't see the word raw
>> >in your text above. So, I was just wondering what you meant by
>> >*some* YUV format.
>> >
>> >But, capping raw YUV is not an option, unless you have a 1 TB hard
>> >drive. I guess we have to wait a year before we can buy those :)
>> >
>> >> although the processing is done in YUV.
>> >> Storing raw RGB is very very space inefficient.
>> >> Normally, if you decode PAl or NTSC you get Y and U and V, because that
>> >> is the way the colors are transferred (U and V are bandwidth limited).
>> >> Converting that to RGB and storing would have no advantage, only be slower
>> >> and take more space.
>> >
>> >Yes, I agree (except for the detail that NTSC -> YIQ).
>> >
>> >Wilbert
>> Not exactly, I will try to reference your points.
>> hufyuv is also a variant of YUV, but compressed in a way (lossless).
>> But MPEG2 and DivX are atotally different beast, these have lossy compression,
>> use intermediate / predicted frames, cosine transform, motion vectors.
>> So, alhough processing is done in YUV space 9that is to say the color is
>> processed apart from the luminance), it is not really the old YUV we started
>> with anymore (and you cannot get the exact original back).
>> With huffman and raw you can.
>
>I know all that. Did I say anywhere that MPEG2/DivX/mjpeg is lossless or
>that huffyuv is lossy?
>
>> As for the 1 terabyte, this is simply not true.
>
>C'mon that was just an optimistic estimate, just to get an idea how much
>space we were talking about. I even forgot to mention the length of the
>capture, so I don't know why you said it's false.
>
>(...)
>
>> The result is the 'some YUV format' I referred to in the first post.
>> So, still YUV, and lossless compression.
>
>Why did you start talking about raw YUV then? Or was it a typo, and you
>meant lossless YUV?
>
>> Then later you can encode that to any other lossy format (MPEG2 DivX, VP6, whatever).
>> Note mjpeg is also not lossless it is simply jepg coding.
>
>I know ...
>
>Btw, DivX has no interlace option, so I wouldn't use that for capping.
>In
>that case you can better use ffvfw.
>
>Wilbert
Agreed, I should paerhaps have specifically mentioned some 'lossless' YUV
format.
I am not 100% sure what you mean 'not use DivX for capping'.
What I do is take mpeg2 from satellite, decode to yuv, add subtitles and effects,
then make DivX CDR (de-interlaced).
Also I make DVD (interlaced) directly from the digital stream, with multiple languages,
and Dutch subtitles, the subtitles are overlay in DVD so nice anti aliased
subs are possible.
The DivX subs, IF in screen, added AFTER the de-interlace, are of cause 100%
stable on a non interlaced display.
Look up my DVD page
http://ip51cf87c4.direct-adsl.nl/panteltje/dvd/
and
Linux transcode for pre and post processing of YUV perhaps
http://www.theorie.physik.uni-goettingen.de/~ostreich/transcode/
subtitler (on my subtitle page) is a plug in for transcode.
Modern DVD players, like the Philips players for example, can play DivX progressive.
JP
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

Jan Panteltje wrote:
>
> On a sunny day (Thu, 24 Jun 2004 16:28:41 +0200) it happened Wilbert Dijkhof
> <w.j.dijkhof@tue.nl> wrote in <40DAE519.C2D42A07@tue.nl>:
>
> >Jan Panteltje wrote:
> >
> >Btw, DivX has no interlace option, so I wouldn't use that for capping.
> >In
> >that case you can better use ffvfw.
> >
> >Wilbert
> Agreed, I should paerhaps have specifically mentioned some 'lossless' YUV
> format.
> I am not 100% sure what you mean 'not use DivX for capping'.

Sorry, my bad. I thought you were talking about DivX as a capture codec.
Of
course, it's fine to use it as a final format. I didn't know your source
was mpeg2 from satellite.

> What I do is take mpeg2 from satellite, decode to yuv, add subtitles and effects,
> then make DivX CDR (de-interlaced).
> Also I make DVD (interlaced) directly from the digital stream, with multiple languages,
> and Dutch subtitles, the subtitles are overlay in DVD so nice anti aliased
> subs are possible.
> The DivX subs, IF in screen, added AFTER the de-interlace, are of cause 100%
> stable on a non interlaced display.

Wilbert
 

Jim

Distinguished
Mar 31, 2004
2,444
0
19,780
Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

"Rich" <RL@sorrybutidontwantspam.com> wrote in message
news:cbeala$7e0$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
> Can anyone recommend from experience a decent, reasonably priced capture
> card for analogue video that would be ok for winxp on a uk system?
>
> Opinions of a negative nature would also be welcome to avoid buying
> something that may be cheap but rubbish.
>
>
> TIA
>
> Rich
>
>

From experience I reccomend a Newtek T3. Takes a beast of a machine to run
it, and small investment, but imo there is not a more powerful set of tools
available hooked to a capture card.

http://www.newtek.com/products/vt/info/index.html

It is the most amazingly creative set of video tools I have ever worked
with.

Jim
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

In message <cbeala$7e0$1@hercules.btinternet.com>, Rich
<RL@sorrybutidontwantspam.com> writes
>Can anyone recommend from experience a decent, reasonably priced
>capture card for analogue video that would be ok for winxp on a uk
>system?

I've been using the Canopus ACDVio, which has firewire and Y/C in/out -
it converts the analogue video to DV using an on-board hardware codec.
Works fine with XP on a 1GHz Pentium 4 with 720 Meg'ish of RAM.

--
Martin @ Strawberry Hill