Angband Oook Winner Statistics

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So I was bored, and needed to practice my very primitive Excel macro
writing. In January I asked Pav to send me the text dump files from
the Oook ladder (thanks, Pav!). Now I've finally had the time to
fiddle. I've transfered the 3878 files into an Excel spreadsheet and
put the data in some semblance of order, learning lots of mistakes
along the way.
Anyway, I've summarised some simple statistics on the 124 Angband
winners from Oook (non 2.4.f-k / 2.8.2) - I'll do ToME and maybe some
of the others later this weekend, hopefully.
I wasn't that interested in class/race combos or winner stats/hp etc
(although I can tell you if you are interested) but rather the winning
equipment. I haven't filtered out the people who kept playing after
killing Morgoth, so the data is very rough, but I thought I'd post it
here anyway:
(Apologies if the formatting doesn't work for you)

Melee Weapons Shooters
Ringil 29 Cubragol 67
Eonwe 12 Belthronding 16
Deathwreaker 9 Bard 11
Aule 8 Haradrim 8
Anduril 4 Amras 4
Calris 4 Shots 3
Thunderfist 3 Power 0


Rings Amulets
Speed 93 Elessar 63
Narya 60 Trickery 13
Nenya 41 Ingwe 12
Vilya 22 Dwarves 7
The One 16 Wisdom 6
Tulkas 5 Carlammas 6
Sustenance 4
Weaponmastery 3


Cloaks Shields
Colannon 24 Thorin 75
Luthien 21 Gil-galad 13
Colluin 21 Preservation 8
Aman 14 Anarion 6
Protection 14 Elvenkind 5
Holcolleth 10 Resist 5
Tuor 5 Celegorm 2
Magi 4
Thingol 3


Boots Light Sources
Speed 57 Thrain 71
Thror 28 Westernesse 29
Feanor 17 Elendil 2
Dal-i-thalion 11 Galadriel 1
Wormtongue 1 Lantern 1


Armour Helmets
Celeborn 30 Gondor 30
Caspanion 21 Dor-Lomin 21
Soulkeeper 19 Thranduil 16
PDSM 18 Morgoth 15
Isildur 14 Numenor 14
Bladeturner 4 Celebrimbor 9
Belegennon 3 Hammerhand 4
Thalkettoth 3 Holhenneth 4
Rohirrim 1 Thengel 1
Telepathy 1

Gloves Inventory (Sum) Average
Fingolfin 73 Life 744 6.00
Cambeleg 28 Healing 2433 19.62
Agility 4 Book 1840 14.84
Slaying 3 Restoring 330 2.66
Power 1 Waybread 141 1.14
Paur* 1 Food 135 1.09
Speed 852 6.87
*Heal 796 6.42



So for instance, of the 124 winners, 67 of them were weilding Cubragol
when making the character dump. The winners held on average 6 potions
of Life. There aren't many surprises here: most players win with
Fingolfin, Thorin, Cubragol, some Speed etc., but I'd thought I'd post
it anyway.
I was amused to notice that of the 767 players I was looking at, 26
wore PDSM and 18 of those went on to post a winners post. That's a
pretty good winning ratio.
Everyone who posted a character with Bladeturner was a winner, but one
had Morgoth drop it and two of the others were characters with 99999999
experience, so yeah, it's rarer than Feanor or The One (assuming
everyone who finds it wears it) - no surprise there either. I'll seem
if ToME offers anything more interesting.
Oh well, hope this was mildly interesting to anyone out there who is
bored.
 
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Good point - all sixteen players with The One Ring were winners as
well. And everyone who made a dump of a character weilding
Deathwreaker were winners as well, Of course, four people with Feanor
died, even though they were level 50-48 when making the character dump.
 
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YAMWAK wrote:
> I was amused to notice that of the 767 players I was looking at, 26
> wore PDSM and 18 of those went on to post a winners post. That's a
> pretty good winning ratio.

Not only does PDSM give you a serious advantage, it's also unlikely to
be found unless you've already survived into the late game (4500'+). A
player who finds it has already gotten past most of the risks and is
probably experienced, and knowledgeable enough to capitalize on the
advantage of having nearly every key resist (except, IIRC, blindness) in
one place. :)

Two of my characters have ever worn PDSM for the final fight. Both won.
In both cases the PDSM was dropped by Sauron.

--
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Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
 
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On 2005-03-27 17:47:34, "YAMWAK" <Alex.Moffatt@gmail.com> wrote:

{about Vanilla winning equipments}

> Boots Light Sources
> Speed 57 Thrain 71
> Thror 28 Westernesse 29
> Feanor 17 Elendil 2
> Dal-i-thalion 11 Galadriel 1
> Wormtongue 1 Lantern 1
>

That many folks had Boots of Speed? Bit surprising in my opinion. After all, the
speed is pretty easy to get from rings and artifacts and it affects very little
when over +30, and such boots are also difficult to find. My last creature who
went through it didn't find a single pair and wouldn't have wielded had he
found one. A question of other equipment of course, partly.

Sampsa
 
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Sure - no problem. Firstly here are the simple bits: winners by class
and by race:

Mage 32
Priest 26
Warrior 24
Ranger 21
Paladin 13
Rogue 8

High-Elf 30
Dwarf 22
Dunadan 16
Gnome 13
Hobbit 12
Half-troll 9
Human 7
Kobold 7
Half-Orc 4
Elf 2
Half-Elf 2

Here is the combo list by race:


Race Class Total
Dunadan Mage 1
Paladin 7
Priest 1
Ranger 3
Rogue 2
Warrior 2
Dunadan Total 16
Dwarf Mage 1
Paladin 2
Priest 16
Ranger 1
Warrior 2
Dwarf Total 22
Elf Mage 1
Rogue 1
Elf Total 2
Gnome Mage 9
Priest 2
Ranger 1
Warrior 1
Gnome Total 13
Half-Elf Mage 1
Ranger 1
Half-Elf Total 2
Half-Orc Mage 1
Priest 1
Rogue 1
Warrior 1
Half-Orc Total 4
Half-Troll Mage 1
Priest 4
Warrior 4
Half-Troll Total 9
High-Elf Mage 14
Paladin 2
Ranger 5
Rogue 1
Warrior 8
High-Elf Total 30
Hobbit Mage 1
Paladin 1
Priest 1
Ranger 6
Rogue 1
Warrior 2
Hobbit Total 12
Human Priest 1
Ranger 2
Warrior 4
Human Total 7
Kobold Mage 2
Paladin 1
Ranger 2
Rogue 2
Kobold Total 7
Grand Total 124


And here is the combo list by Class:

Class Race Total
Mage Dunadan 1
Dwarf 1
Elf 1
Gnome 9
Half-Elf 1
Half-Orc 1
Half-Troll 1
High-Elf 14
Hobbit 1
Kobold 2
Mage Total 32
Paladin Dunadan 7
Dwarf 2
High-Elf 2
Hobbit 1
Kobold 1
Paladin Total 13
Priest Dunadan 1
Dwarf 16
Gnome 2
Half-Orc 1
Half-Troll 4
Hobbit 1
Human 1
Priest Total 26
Ranger Dunadan 3
Dwarf 1
Gnome 1
Half-Elf 1
High-Elf 5
Hobbit 6
Human 2
Kobold 2
Ranger Total 21
Rogue Dunadan 2
Elf 1
Half-Orc 1
High-Elf 1
Hobbit 1
Kobold 2
Rogue Total 8
Warrior Dunadan 2
Dwarf 2
Gnome 1
Half-Orc 1
Half-Troll 4
High-Elf 8
Hobbit 2
Human 4
Warrior Total 24
Grand Total 124


Apologies for the formatting - I'm just cutting and pasting from Excel
as I'm in a bit of a hurry.
Hope this is readable - if not let me know and I'll sort something out.

Regards,

YAMWAK
 
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I had a theory that the players with speed boots would have more
experience on average than those without, implying that they waited at
some point until such boots became available. In actual fact those
with speed boots had about 27,452,588EXP on average while those with
averaged at 21,584,294EXP, so there might be something in it.
I don't have the time at the moment to work out the distribution or the
confidence, so I can't tell you how wrong I am.

Regards,

YAMWAK
 
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<snip>
In actual fact those with speed boots had about 27,452,588EXP on
average while those withOUT averaged at 21,584,294EXP, so there might
be something in it.
<snip>

I will preview.
I will preview
I will preview
....
 
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On 2005-03-27 17:47:34, "YAMWAK" <Alex.Moffatt@gmail.com> wrote:

> I wasn't that interested in class/race combos or winner stats/hp etc
> (although I can tell you if you are interested) but rather the winning
> equipment.

Well, I am. I would like to know the winning combinations of race-class, in
order to know which are the favourite (and maybe easy to win) and the less
played combo (and probably the harder to win with).

I just won once, with a half-troll priest which seems to be pretty common.

Now, I am playing a ranger, since I had no luck with mages (and wanted to give
mage-like races a try). After I win with this char, I will go with a human
warrior, and who knows next.

Thanks for the effort.

Leo

--
A(3.0.5) C "Weichafe I" hER L:47 DL:55 A+ R++ Sp w:Olorin/Amras
AW H- D- c f- PV+ s++ TT? d P++ M+
C-- S- I- So- B-- ac !GHB SQ? !RQ V?
 
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Wow, there was a dwarf mage winner! Thanks for posting the stats,
pretty cool.

Murphy S.
 
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On 2005-03-29 18:26:40, "YAMWAK" <Alex.Moffatt@gmail.com> wrote:

> Apologies for the formatting - I'm just cutting and pasting from Excel
> as I'm in a bit of a hurry.
> Hope this is readable - if not let me know and I'll sort something out.

Alex, could you please send the excel file to me? leo.lagos@gmail.com

Thanks,

Leo

--
A(3.0.5) C "Weichafe I" hER L:48 DL:55 A+ R++ Sp w:Olorin/Amras
AW H- D- c f- PV+ s++ TT? d P++ M+
C-- S- I- So- B-- ac !GHB SQ? !RQ V?
 
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YAMWAK wrote:
>
> Melee Weapons Shooters
> Ringil 29 Cubragol 67
> Eonwe 12 Belthronding 16
> Deathwreaker 9 Bard 11
> Aule 8 Haradrim 8
> Anduril 4 Amras 4
> Calris 4 Shots 3
> Thunderfist 3 Power 0
>
>
> Rings Amulets
> Speed 93 Elessar 63
> Narya 60 Trickery 13
> Nenya 41 Ingwe 12
> Vilya 22 Dwarves 7
> The One 16 Wisdom 6
> Tulkas 5 Carlammas 6
> Sustenance 4
> Weaponmastery 3
>
>
> Cloaks Shields
> Colannon 24 Thorin 75
> Luthien 21 Gil-galad 13
> Colluin 21 Preservation 8
> Aman 14 Anarion 6
> Protection 14 Elvenkind 5
> Holcolleth 10 Resist 5
> Tuor 5 Celegorm 2
> Magi 4
> Thingol 3
>
>
> Boots Light Sources
> Speed 57 Thrain 71
> Thror 28 Westernesse 29
> Feanor 17 Elendil 2
> Dal-i-thalion 11 Galadriel 1
> Wormtongue 1 Lantern 1
>
>
> Armour Helmets
> Celeborn 30 Gondor 30
> Caspanion 21 Dor-Lomin 21
> Soulkeeper 19 Thranduil 16
> PDSM 18 Morgoth 15
> Isildur 14 Numenor 14
> Bladeturner 4 Celebrimbor 9
> Belegennon 3 Hammerhand 4
> Thalkettoth 3 Holhenneth 4
> Rohirrim 1 Thengel 1
> Telepathy 1
>
> Gloves Inventory (Sum) Average
> Fingolfin 73 Life 744 6.00
> Cambeleg 28 Healing 2433 19.62
> Agility 4 Book 1840 14.84
> Slaying 3 Restoring 330 2.66
> Power 1 Waybread 141 1.14
> Paur* 1 Food 135 1.09
> Speed 852 6.87
> *Heal 796 6.42
>
>
I think these distributions show that some artifacts are either too good
or too common. Seems that most of the people find Elessar, Thorin,
Fingolfin, and Cubrabol, put them on and never unwield.

The ring distribution is Narya - Nenya - Vilya - One, better == less
common. I would prefer it that way. Even after finding Elessar, there
could be some rare amulet you could hope for - just like after finding
Boots of Speed you always hope for Feanor. And same for other slots.
 
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<snip>

What surprised me was to see not a single winner wielding Mormegil. I've
used it with both of my characters to date one winner and one sitting at
clvl 49 waiting for more time :). Nothing else ever seemed to come close
in terms of damage deliverable (although I have not found Deathwreaker).

And the best LB - that the winner used - was one of Lothlorien. I must
just be odd. But I knew that ;).


Juho Schultz wrote:

> YAMWAK wrote:
>
>>
>> Melee Weapons Shooters
>> Ringil 29 Cubragol 67
>> Eonwe 12 Belthronding 16
>> Deathwreaker 9 Bard 11
>> Aule 8 Haradrim 8
>> Anduril 4 Amras 4
>> Calris 4 Shots 3
>> Thunderfist 3 Power 0
 
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Ewan McNay wrote:
> <snip>
>
> What surprised me was to see not a single winner wielding Mormegil.
> I've used it with both of my characters to date one winner and one
> sitting at clvl 49 waiting for more time :). Nothing else ever seemed
> to come close in terms of damage deliverable (although I have not found
> Deathwreaker).
>
> And the best LB - that the winner used - was one of Lothlorien. I must
> just be odd. But I knew that ;).

It's inherent in your considering Mormegil a potential component of a
winner kit anyway.

--
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Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
 
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On 2005-03-31 08:58:54, Juho Schultz <juho.schultz@helsinki.fi> wrote:

> YAMWAK wrote:
> >
> > Melee Weapons Shooters
> > Ringil 29 Cubragol 67
> > Eonwe 12 Belthronding 16
> > Deathwreaker 9 Bard 11
> > Aule 8 Haradrim 8
> > Anduril 4 Amras 4
> > Calris 4 Shots 3
> > Thunderfist 3 Power 0
> >
> >
> > Rings Amulets
> > Speed 93 Elessar 63
> > Narya 60 Trickery 13
> > Nenya 41 Ingwe 12
> > Vilya 22 Dwarves 7
> > The One 16 Wisdom 6
> > Tulkas 5 Carlammas 6
> > Sustenance 4
> > Weaponmastery 3
> >
> >
> > Cloaks Shields
> > Colannon 24 Thorin 75
> > Luthien 21 Gil-galad 13
> > Colluin 21 Preservation 8
> > Aman 14 Anarion 6
> > Protection 14 Elvenkind 5
> > Holcolleth 10 Resist 5
> > Tuor 5 Celegorm 2
> > Magi 4
> > Thingol 3
> >
> >
> > Boots Light Sources
> > Speed 57 Thrain 71
> > Thror 28 Westernesse 29
> > Feanor 17 Elendil 2
> > Dal-i-thalion 11 Galadriel 1
> > Wormtongue 1 Lantern 1
> >
> >
> > Armour Helmets
> > Celeborn 30 Gondor 30
> > Caspanion 21 Dor-Lomin 21
> > Soulkeeper 19 Thranduil 16
> > PDSM 18 Morgoth 15
> > Isildur 14 Numenor 14
> > Bladeturner 4 Celebrimbor 9
> > Belegennon 3 Hammerhand 4
> > Thalkettoth 3 Holhenneth 4
> > Rohirrim 1 Thengel 1
> > Telepathy 1
> >
> > Gloves Inventory (Sum) Average
> > Fingolfin 73 Life 744 6.00
> > Cambeleg 28 Healing 2433 19.62
> > Agility 4 Book 1840 14.84
> > Slaying 3 Restoring 330 2.66
> > Power 1 Waybread 141 1.14
> > Paur* 1 Food 135 1.09
> > Speed 852 6.87
> > *Heal 796 6.42
> >
> >
> I think these distributions show that some artifacts are either too good
> or too common. Seems that most of the people find Elessar, Thorin,
> Fingolfin, and Cubrabol, put them on and never unwield.
>
> The ring distribution is Narya - Nenya - Vilya - One, better == less
> common. I would prefer it that way. Even after finding Elessar, there
> could be some rare amulet you could hope for - just like after finding
> Boots of Speed you always hope for Feanor. And same for other slots.
>
>

I think you meant some artifacts are _both_ too good and too common.
Many artifacts are too good, but don't pose a problem, such as The One,
Feanor, etc. It's the "too good" artifacts that are also _easy_ to find that
I think you're carping about. And I agree.

It looks like the specific artifacts that have these problems are:
Cubragol, Thorin, Elessar, Fingolfin, and (maybe) Thrain.

It sounds like what you're proposing is to make all of these a bit rarer,
possibly introduce a weaker version of each that is more common (or just
rely on existing artifacts, eg. cambeleg for fingolfin), and possibly introduce
a stronger version of each (eg. One Ring/Feanor) that is more rare.

Game balance needs to be considered carefully. Will it be too hard to win if
Cubragol and Thorin are harder to find? Maybe we need to introduce a lesser
artifact bow that has +5 speed to fill the gap. Similarly, maybe a +4 con,
rBase
artifact shield would help fill the gap left by Thorin. Maybe we should have
an
artifact amulet that is stronger than weaponmastery, yet weaker than elessar?
Fingolfin already has a weaker version in Cambeleg for most classes. Why is
Thrain so popular? detection? Introducing these weaker versions allows
Thorin, Cubragol, Elessar, Fingolfin to move to greater rarity. To balance this

out, perhaps we can also introduce an even more desirable bow, shield, amulet,
gloves that are much more rare, like Feanor or Bladeturner. Perhaps something
like a rare bow with good damage, minor speed and/or con boost, and an
elemental immunity.

On the other hand, I just thought of a totally different reason why these
artifacts may be so poorly distributed. Perhaps an item like Thorin is not
overpowered and too common, but rather artifact shields do not have enough
diversity. Maybe we need more artifact shields of _different_ diversity and
similar
rarity. Looking at the artifact shield list, it really is pathetic. Just about
the only
good shield is Thorin. gil-galad has rDis, and anarion has sustAll. Both of
those
are weak benefits players can get from ego-items. How about a spiked artifact
shield that boosts damage. Haradrim would be very nice if it didn't aggravate.

--
Gallowglass
 
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Ewan McNay wrote:
> <snip>
>
> What surprised me was to see not a single winner wielding Mormegil.

Mormegil? That heavy cursed, -10 speed, low damage piece of s*it? You
must be talking about Zarcuthra.

Zarcuthra isn't actually that impressive. Take one Blade of Chaos (Holy
Avenger) or of melting or extra attacks with high to_dam and you get
about same weapon in damage delivery.

Timo Pietilä
 
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Timo Pietilä wrote:
>
> Ewan McNay wrote:
>
>> <snip>
>>
>> What surprised me was to see not a single winner wielding Mormegil.
>
> Mormegil? That heavy cursed, -10 speed, low damage piece of s*it? You
> must be talking about Zarcuthra.
>
> Zarcuthra isn't actually that impressive. Take one Blade of Chaos (Holy
> Avenger) or of melting or extra attacks with high to_dam and you get
> about same weapon in damage delivery.

My current character has a Blade of Chaos of Extra Attacks (+2) with a
large to-dam.

Uh, why is everyone looking mad? Why are they chasing me with
pitchforks! Aaaaaaa! *runs*

--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
 
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I agree that there are large confounding factors, particularly the
primary weapon and the helm, but otherwise I felt the data was
sufficiently interesting to post. I could compare weapons against
class and determine what pieces the player has at home/in inventory,
but with the limited number of winners there would be even less
relevance attached to the data.
I large problem is that people mostly don't post players to Oook
(myself inclueded). The more datum points available the more
confidence one can have in the data. The ToME data might be
interesting, as there are a lot more dumps for ToME. I'll have to post
that stuff when I've worked it out.
 
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On 2005-03-27 17:47:34, "YAMWAK" <Alex.Moffatt@gmail.com> wrote:

[Very Large Snip]

Is it just me, or is most of this rather unuseful in context. For example the
rings worn gives a good indication of equipment, but would everyone have worn
Vilya if they had it? Or for example would they have worn Nenya (for ImmCold)
and a ring of Speed.

Without knowing what artifacts had been picked up but _not_ used, it doesn't
show which items are favoured over another, nor does it necessarily show which
items are more common otherwise *thancs and paur*s would be high on the list.

Also without the class separation, equipment selection becomes varied also - I
would much rather wield Bard with a Ranger than Cubragol, but with anything
else the speed is far more valuable. Do you take into account those Winners who
swap weapons for the final battle that they didn't use for most of the endgame?

It makes for an interesting read, and I appreciate it being shared, but I wonder
what can actually be learned from it with all the confounding factors affecting
what equipment would be in the slots at the end of the game - surely an easier
way to work out ideal equipment would be to dive through the /edit/artifact.txt
file?

Just my 2p

--
Take Care,
Graham

Pos(0.3.0a2) Alpha "Natar" XX L:1 DL:50' !A R--- !Sp w:Short Sword +0,+0
Pos(V/T//NPP) W H- D+ c-- f PV+ s- TT? d P++ M+
C-- S+ I- So B ac GHB- SQ+ RQ+ V+ F:Better monster AI (Acting like decent
players without automatically knowing where the player is - randomly roaming
the dungeon etc...)
 
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=?ISO-8859-15?Q?Timo_Pietil=E4?= <timo.pietila@helsinki.fi> wrote in
news:d2hhmj$3hd$1@oravannahka.helsinki.fi:

>
>
> Ewan McNay wrote:
>> <snip>
>>
>> What surprised me was to see not a single winner wielding Mormegil.
>
> Mormegil? That heavy cursed, -10 speed, low damage piece of s*it? You
> must be talking about Zarcuthra.

Which raises an interesting question... has anyone tried to win with
Mormegil in [V] (or any other variant where it hasn't been upgraded)?

--
Matthew Furrow
mfurrow at mail dot md