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Archived from groups: alt.games.xtrek,rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

============================================================================
===
First of all, please apologize for the cross-posting, but i wanted to
contact all of the online Interactive Fiction Comunity
============================================================================
===

Dear All

As we all know IF reviews are scatered all over the web, and this newsgroups
seems to be the only common place to find them (apart from 1 or 2 major
reviewers own webpages) and as such I decided today to create a special
place to have them all together.

This place will be called www.ifreviews.org (i already have the domain), and
it will be based on PHP/MySQL, to enable speed searchs/access, but specially
online reviews editing :)

For what i could understand, there are already some, more or less, review
based websites, and also that reviewers might want to keep their own reviews
webpage anyway, so I decided to enable the reviewers (in each review at
ifreviews.org) to be able to show a link their own webpage's review. So that
there's a link exchange between ifreviews.org and the reviewers own webpage.
Im sure that even with the duplication of reviews, this is the best solution
for reviewers.

Later on (only after next tuesday im affraid) i will give you all more
precise details, in the meantime, should you have any ideas about this
subject, please feel free to contact me via email rootshell@netcabo.pt.

There are some things that were already thought about (by friends of mine),
but nothing was decided yet, things like:

- Fields you think are mandatory to be included in a review
- Search facilities that users might want
- Kind of ranking (0 to x, should x be 10 or 100, integer or not)
- Review size limit (words/kb)

Things that are already covered:

- Webmaster decision/power to cancel any reviewer's account (due to
unproper use) and even ban from site.
- Reviewer login/accounts
- Online creation/editing/delete of reviews
- Reviewers ranking (votes from other reviewers, so that reviewers take
special care on how they review the games, making it more important to have
quality rather than quantity)
- Games
ranking/category/system/language/author/Authoring_System/Links_to_game_files
(external)
- Author rankings/information/website
- Search by: game/author/word/category/rank/date/event

To prevent anyone from feeling that his/hers work was used/copied/stealed
without his/hers concent, a "terms of use" document will be implemented,
which *must* be agreeded prior to concluding the registration process by
means of a email confirmation. This email will serve as prove of
authorization to publish online any review that the reviewer decides to
publish.

I know that this should have been ready sooner so that this years IfComp.org
reviews could be entered, but i really only decided today to give it a go,
and let me tell you that it's a joy to be able to finally do something for
this world of IF that i so much love :)

Please forgive me if I sound to confusing, but it's late now (02:45), and i
just wanted to let the IF Comunity know about this new project, which *has*
to be ready before the end of the Spring Comp (according to my plans) :)

Im counting on you to go ahead with this project, where the newcomers can
find useful information about what games to try first :).

Any sugestion is welcome, since this site will be made for you but
particulary by you... The Intereactive Fiction Comunity!

Kind Regards,
RootShell
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.xtrek,rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

"RootShell" <rootshell@netcabo.pt> wrote in message news:<419c0e90$0$3217$a729d347@news.telepac.pt>...
> As we all know IF reviews are scatered all over the web, and this newsgroups
> seems to be the only common place to find them (apart from 1 or 2 major
> reviewers own webpages) and as such I decided today to create a special
> place to have them all together.
>

SOunds like a great idea. I remember spending ages last year scouring
the internet for reviews of my game and something like this would have
saved ages.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 02:51:31 +0000, RootShell said to the parser:

> There are some things that were already thought about (by friends of mine),
> but nothing was decided yet, things like:
>
> - Fields you think are mandatory to be included in a review
> - Search facilities that users might want
> - Kind of ranking (0 to x, should x be 10 or 100, integer or not)
> - Review size limit (words/kb)

1 to 10 for ranking gets my vote--it means that IFComp reviews can be
pasted in as-is, without retooling.


Michael
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.xtrek,rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

"David Whyld" <me@dwhyld.plus.com> escreveu na mensagem
news:fcc784d7.0411180520.62d0fbac@posting.google.com...
>
> SOunds like a great idea. I remember spending ages last year scouring
> the internet for reviews of my game and something like this would have
> saved ages.

I will have to build it from scratch, but i will do it...

Lots of ideas are already arriving by email, so I will try to listen to
every possible contribution/feature and then layout a format here to see
what people can improve on.

Regards,
RootShell
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.xtrek,rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

"RootShell" <rootshell@netcabo.pt> wrote in message news:<419c0e90$0$3217$a729d347@news.telepac.pt>...
> ============================================================================
> ===
> First of all, please apologize for the cross-posting, but i wanted to
> contact all of the online Interactive Fiction Comunity
> ============================================================================
> ===
>
> Dear All
>
> As we all know IF reviews are scatered all over the web, and this newsgroups
> seems to be the only common place to find them (apart from 1 or 2 major
> reviewers own webpages) and as such I decided today to create a special
> place to have them all together.

Excellent Idea...

>
> This place will be called www.ifreviews.org (i already have the domain), and
> it will be based on PHP/MySQL, to enable speed searchs/access, but specially
> online reviews editing :)
>
> For what i could understand, there are already some, more or less, review
> based websites, and also that reviewers might want to keep their own reviews
> webpage anyway, so I decided to enable the reviewers (in each review at
> ifreviews.org) to be able to show a link their own webpage's review. So that
> there's a link exchange between ifreviews.org and the reviewers own webpage.
> Im sure that even with the duplication of reviews, this is the best solution
> for reviewers.
>
> Later on (only after next tuesday im affraid) i will give you all more
> precise details, in the meantime, should you have any ideas about this
> subject, please feel free to contact me via email rootshell@netcabo.pt.
>
> There are some things that were already thought about (by friends of mine),
> but nothing was decided yet, things like:
>
> - Fields you think are mandatory to be included in a review
> - Search facilities that users might want

Maybe accompanied by an alphanumeric index of the games?

> - Kind of ranking (0 to x, should x be 10 or 100, integer or not)

IMHO I recommend x = 10. 100 seems to high; just allow people to use
decimals like 9.5 or 6.25.

> - Review size limit (words/kb)

If bandwidth/size for site becomes a problem, sure. If it isn't I
recommend separating them into categories by size so visitors can
decide how indepth they want (spoilers, no spoilers, spoilers-detailed
etc...)

>
> Things that are already covered:
>
> - Webmaster decision/power to cancel any reviewer's account (due to
> unproper use) and even ban from site.

That should be a rule on every site of that type as the webmaster is
responsible for the site's rep.

> - Reviewer login/accounts
> - Online creation/editing/delete of reviews
Only by webmaster,admin(s), and authors.

> - Reviewers ranking (votes from other reviewers, so that reviewers take
> special care on how they review the games, making it more important to have
> quality rather than quantity)
Good idea... I like it

> - Games
> ranking/category/system/language/author/Authoring_System/Links_to_game_files
> (external)
> - Author rankings/information/website
> - Search by: game/author/word/category/rank/date/event
>
> To prevent anyone from feeling that his/hers work was used/copied/stealed
> without his/hers concent, a "terms of use" document will be implemented,
> which *must* be agreeded prior to concluding the registration process by
> means of a email confirmation. This email will serve as prove of
> authorization to publish online any review that the reviewer decides to
> publish.
>
> I know that this should have been ready sooner so that this years IfComp.org
> reviews could be entered, but i really only decided today to give it a go,
> and let me tell you that it's a joy to be able to finally do something for
> this world of IF that i so much love :)
>
> Please forgive me if I sound to confusing, but it's late now (02:45), and i
> just wanted to let the IF Comunity know about this new project, which *has*
> to be ready before the end of the Spring Comp (according to my plans) :)
>
> Im counting on you to go ahead with this project, where the newcomers can
> find useful information about what games to try first :).
>
> Any sugestion is welcome, since this site will be made for you but
> particulary by you... The Intereactive Fiction Comunity!
>
> Kind Regards,
> RootShell

Wonderful idea root. HOpe it goes well

8
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

Thinking about the idea of getting reviews of a single game in one
place...

a) I'm all in favor of a website for it. There, I'm on topic.

and b), slightly less on thread topic: It's cool to see everyone's
reviews coming in for the IF Comp, but it would be easier to sort
through them if they were arranged by game instead of author -- 1
thread for all reviews of "Blue Chairs", 1 for all reviews of "Blink",
etc., rather than each person posting all of their personal opinions
in one great big batch. That way, if you were curious about opinions
of a certain game (I, for one, was quite curious how other people
reviewed "Gamlet" and "Bellclap") it would be easier to find them.

Of course, if you review all 36 games (or however many there are) I
can see how it would be an utter pain in the rear to post under every
game's thread.

Jsut a thought.

Carolyn
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.xtrek,rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

"8_of_10" <eight_of_ten@hotmail.com> escreveu na mensagem
news:483ed3bc.0411190445.7c023ec1@posting.google.com...
> "RootShell" <rootshell@netcabo.pt> wrote in message
news:<419c0e90$0$3217$a729d347@news.telepac.pt>...
>
> Wonderful idea root. HOpe it goes well
>
> 8

I just hope that people will grab this idea and contribute, because without
them... the site will be empty 🙁

RootShell
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

"Carolyn Magruder" <carolynmagruder@yahoo.com> escreveu na mensagem
news:ad17d854.0411190629.46e781c9@posting.google.com...
> Thinking about the idea of getting reviews of a single game in one
> place...
>
> a) I'm all in favor of a website for it. There, I'm on topic.
>
> and b), slightly less on thread topic: It's cool to see everyone's
> reviews coming in for the IF Comp, but it would be easier to sort
> through them if they were arranged by game instead of author -- 1
> thread for all reviews of "Blue Chairs", 1 for all reviews of "Blink",
> etc., rather than each person posting all of their personal opinions
> in one great big batch. That way, if you were curious about opinions
> of a certain game (I, for one, was quite curious how other people
> reviewed "Gamlet" and "Bellclap") it would be easier to find them.
>
> Of course, if you review all 36 games (or however many there are) I
> can see how it would be an utter pain in the rear to post under every
> game's thread.
>
> Jsut a thought.
>
> Carolyn

That's basically the whole idea behind ifreviews.org, to make sure that it's
easy to find/read the reviews for a given Comp/Author/Game, no matter who
wrote it in the first place nor when :) (although credits of the reviewer
will be clearly shown).

I think it can be done and done properly so that the whole website is fast
and accessible to all searching for that information.

As said before, i just hope that the IF Comunity realizes the use of this
atempt and colaborates accordingly.

Regards,
RootShell
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

"Carolyn Magruder" <carolynmagruder@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ad17d854.0411190629.46e781c9@posting.google.com...

> and b), slightly less on thread topic: It's cool to see everyone's
> reviews coming in for the IF Comp, but it would be easier to sort
> through them if they were arranged by game instead of author -- 1
> thread for all reviews of "Blue Chairs", 1 for all reviews of
> "Blink",
> etc., rather than each person posting all of their personal
> opinions
> in one great big batch. That way, if you were curious about
> opinions
> of a certain game (I, for one, was quite curious how other people
> reviewed "Gamlet" and "Bellclap") it would be easier to find them.

In an ideal world, it would indeed be interesting to see this.

> Of course, if you review all 36 games (or however many there are)
> I
> can see how it would be an utter pain in the rear to post under
> every
> game's thread.

Well, that's one problem. Another is that it is helpful to compare a
review of a particular game with how the reviewer assesses other
games. For example, one might want a read a negative review from a
judge who seems to be negative about just every game rather
differently from a negative review by someone who seems to be
normally appreciative. Likewise, a score of 7 from someone who
scores only a couple of games higher than that may signify something
rather different from a score of 7 from a judge who is extremely
generous with eights, nines and tens. In our hypothetical ideal
world it might be nice to be able to sort reviews by both reviewer
and game (since I agree with your suggestion that being readily able
to compare reviews of the same game would be interesting), but given
the actual non-ideal world, the gain in comparability obtained by
following your suggestion would probably not be worth the pain to
which you refer.

Of course, if the IFReviews website were to provide the facility to
sort by game or by reviewer, that would be great.

-- Eric
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.xtrek,rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

As far as rankings go, I highly recommend a 1-10 scale, with no
decimals.

Every succesful ranking system I've ever seen is very simple.
IMDB.com uses a 1-10 scale. The IF ratings site at carouselchain uses
a 1-10 to much success. Movie critics use a 4 star system which
essentially has eight or nine different rankings.

The more possible rankings you allow, the more muddled the rankings
become. After all, how can a person really distinguish the difference
between 68/100 and 66/100? Or if you use a 1-10 scale with decimals,
you have the same problem. What's the difference between 7.2 and 7.1?

SPAG used to have a rating system similar, with the scale being from
0.0 to 2.0, and the ratings seemed inconsistent and hard to evaluate.

I would also avoid rating different parts of the game like story,
writing, plot, etc. as it allows the rater to think way too hard about
their ratings, and they will often underrate the game because of it.
Games that purposely don't have a plot, but are still excellent
nevertheless, would be hurt by such a rating system. All that really
matters is if a person liked the game overall, unless you're handing
out awards for specific aspects like the Oscars (or, in our case, the
Erins) does.

Softiron
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

>"Eric Eve" <eric.eve@NOSPAMhmc.ox.ac.uk> escreveu na mensagem
news:cnl4fs$q9f$1@news.ox.ac.uk...
> Well, that's one problem. Another is that it is helpful to compare a
> review of a particular game with how the reviewer assesses other
> games. For example, one might want a read a negative review from a
> judge who seems to be negative about just every game rather
> differently from a negative review by someone who seems to be
> normally appreciative. Likewise, a score of 7 from someone who
> scores only a couple of games higher than that may signify something
> rather different from a score of 7 from a judge who is extremely
> generous with eights, nines and tens. In our hypothetical ideal
> world it might be nice to be able to sort reviews by both reviewer
> and game (since I agree with your suggestion that being readily able
> to compare reviews of the same game would be interesting), but given
> the actual non-ideal world, the gain in comparability obtained by
> following your suggestion would probably not be worth the pain to
> which you refer.
>

Regarding what your suggesting the initial (and actual for that matter)
idea was to use something on this lines:

--- This game has received a 5 score review, from "Mr. Reviewer X"
which has alread rated 36 games in our database, with 3 as the lowest score,
8 as the highest score giving a average score of 6. ---

This would give the user/reader an idea of what i think you were trying
to say, right?

> Of course, if the IFReviews website were to provide the facility to
> sort by game or by reviewer, that would be great.


Sure this can be done, and it will (as some other personalized sorting
options), due to the easy manipulation of data by PHP/MySQL combination :)

Regards,
RootShell
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.xtrek,rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

"RootShell" <rootshell@netcabo.pt> wrote:

[snip]

>For what i could understand, there are already some, more or less, review
>based websites, and also that reviewers might want to keep their own reviews
>webpage anyway, so I decided to enable the reviewers (in each review at
>ifreviews.org) to be able to show a link their own webpage's review. So that
>there's a link exchange between ifreviews.org and the reviewers own webpage.
>Im sure that even with the duplication of reviews, this is the best solution
>for reviewers.

Duplication of reviews is a feature, not a bug. We could do with
redundancy. If one site goes down, whether temporarily or
permanently, the review is still available.

[snip]

>There are some things that were already thought about (by friends of mine),
>but nothing was decided yet, things like:
>
> - Fields you think are mandatory to be included in a review

Not neceesarily mandatory, but these should be sought:

Item title, subtitle (details on series), author (as released),
author (real name), reviewer, review text, natural language, game
language, where to download, ***where to download game system
run-time***, year of creation, part of (for contest entries),
commercial or not.

Aside from the reviews:

Contact information for the authors and reviewers. These could
be used to validate some field entries. The contact information could
simply be "DND" (Do not disturb.) if the person does not want
correspondence.

Lists of contests (used to validate "part of" anyway).

> - Search facilities that users might want

By any field and by keyword. Keyword should be by field or by
all fields. Sort by any combination of short fields. (By "short
fields", I mean anything but the review text itself.)

> - Kind of ranking (0 to x, should x be 10 or 100, integer or not)

IFComp uses 1 to 10, but why limit it? I tend to think of letter
grades as better.

> - Review size limit (words/kb)

No. This is the sort of thing that will sort itself out
automaticaly.

>Things that are already covered:
>
> - Webmaster decision/power to cancel any reviewer's account (due to
>unproper use) and even ban from site.

A must-have.

> - Reviewer login/accounts
> - Online creation/editing/delete of reviews

Yes to both.

> - Reviewers ranking (votes from other reviewers, so that reviewers take
>special care on how they review the games, making it more important to have
>quality rather than quantity)

Not really needed.

> - Games
>ranking/category/system/language/author/Authoring_System/Links_to_game_files
>(external)
> - Author rankings/information/website
> - Search by: game/author/word/category/rank/date/event

Yes.

>To prevent anyone from feeling that his/hers work was used/copied/stealed
>without his/hers concent, a "terms of use" document will be implemented,
>which *must* be agreeded prior to concluding the registration process by
>means of a email confirmation. This email will serve as prove of
>authorization to publish online any review that the reviewer decides to
>publish.

Fine.

[snip]

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation:
I have preferences.
You have biases.
He/She has prejudices.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.xtrek,rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

On or about 11/29/2004 5:30 PM, Gene Wirchenko did proclaim:
> [snip]
>
> Contact information for the authors and reviewers. These could
> be used to validate some field entries. The contact information could
> simply be "DND" (Do not disturb.) if the person does not want
> correspondence.

Have a check-box to obfuscate email addresses in the contact info. For
example, Slashdot allows three choices:

Email Display
[ ] Do not display an e-mail address.
[X] Show your email address with random SPAM-armoring applied.
[ ] Show your real email address without obfuscation.

That middle choice (which I use) allows people to permit correspondence
without getting harvested by spam-bots.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.xtrek,rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

"Gene Wirchenko" <genew@mail.ocis.net> skrev i melding
news:q77nq0h5uvnghpat22e99lid29ql6rhasn@4ax.com...
> "RootShell" <rootshell@netcabo.pt> wrote:

> IFComp uses 1 to 10, but why limit it? I tend to think of letter
> grades as better.

Do you mean like in American schools? I think it is hard to understand how
good a grade is with that system. I suspect many non-americans think the
same.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.xtrek,rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

In article <41ac5986$1@news.broadpark.no>,
Jan Thorsby <no_jthorsby_spam@broadpark.no> wrote:
>
>"Gene Wirchenko" <genew@mail.ocis.net> skrev i melding
>news:q77nq0h5uvnghpat22e99lid29ql6rhasn@4ax.com...
>> "RootShell" <rootshell@netcabo.pt> wrote:
>
>> IFComp uses 1 to 10, but why limit it? I tend to think of letter
>> grades as better.
>
>Do you mean like in American schools? I think it is hard to understand how
>good a grade is with that system. I suspect many non-americans think the
>same.

Numeric scores have a big advantage: it's very easy to average them,
add them, comput estandard deviations, and other statistic
operations. With letter grades you have to have some translation
scheme to numbers before you can do that - and then what's the point
with the letters?
--
Magnus Olsson (mol@df.lth.se)
PGP Public Key available at http://www.df.lth.se/~mol
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.xtrek,rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

Magnus Olsson wrote:
> Numeric scores have a big advantage: it's very easy to average them,
> add them, comput estandard deviations, and other statistic
> operations. With letter grades you have to have some translation
> scheme to numbers before you can do that - and then what's the point
> with the letters?

Traditionally, A=4, B=3, C=2, D=1, F=0.

I think the letters have stuck because it's easier to remember "A is
best" than to remember "4 is best". But any reasonably bright
high-school student knows what a "4.0 average" means.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.xtrek,rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

mol@df.lth.se (Magnus Olsson) wrote:

>In article <41ac5986$1@news.broadpark.no>,
>Jan Thorsby <no_jthorsby_spam@broadpark.no> wrote:
>>
>>"Gene Wirchenko" <genew@mail.ocis.net> skrev i melding
>>news:q77nq0h5uvnghpat22e99lid29ql6rhasn@4ax.com...
>>> "RootShell" <rootshell@netcabo.pt> wrote:
>>
>>> IFComp uses 1 to 10, but why limit it? I tend to think of letter
>>> grades as better.
>>
>>Do you mean like in American schools? I think it is hard to understand how
>>good a grade is with that system. I suspect many non-americans think the
>>same.

Do you really need antything more than
A = Excellent
B = Very Good
C = Adequate
D = Marginal
F = Fail

YMWV anyway.

>Numeric scores have a big advantage: it's very easy to average them,
>add them, comput estandard deviations, and other statistic
>operations. With letter grades you have to have some translation

...and otherwise pretend that one is performing valid operations
on data.

>scheme to numbers before you can do that - and then what's the point
>with the letters?

But the statistics are rather meaningless. Is a seven for one
game the same as a seven for another?

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation:
I have preferences.
You have biases.
He/She has prejudices.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.xtrek,rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

"RootShell" <rootshell@netcabo.pt> wrote in message news:<419c0e90$0$3217$a729d347@news.telepac.pt>...
> As we all know IF reviews are scatered all over the web, and this newsgroups
> seems to be the only common place to find them (apart from 1 or 2 major
> reviewers own webpages) and as such I decided today to create a special
> place to have them all together.
>
> This place will be called www.ifreviews.org (i already have the domain), and
> it will be based on PHP/MySQL, to enable speed searchs/access, but specially
> online reviews editing :)

I think the idea is great, and I think it will be worth the effort
you put into it. However, have you considered trying to make it a
part of the IF Ratings site? These are the advantages that I can see:

* IFRS already has a connection to Baf's guide built, ensuring that
new games in the archive make it into IFRS too.
* IFRS already has the necessary handling of database, accounts, scores,
statistics, searching etc.
* A large number of the people who write reviews already have an
account at IFRS. Less fuss for them.
* Baf's guide is rather tightly integrated with if-archive. IFRS is
rather tightly integrated with Baf's guide. Both of these integrations
are Good Things, but they would be even more powerful if the integration
was complete - if-archive linking to Baf's for each file where it's
applicable, Baf's linking to IF Ratings for each game etc. I think the
very best idea would be to have all three merged into one single,
seamless site. Assuming that won't happen for a while, adding a review
site that doesn't integrate with any of these is still a pretty good idea.
Making it integrate with one or more of them is even better. Making it
part of one of them is the best idea - that would make the reviews site
more useful, which would make people use it even more.

Of course, this requires that the developer of the IF Ratings site to
thinks this is a great idea. Also, this approach to the project can
only happen if you want to develop this in the way that's the most
useful to the community. If your motivation for this project is to
exercise your PHP skills and work on a pet project of your own,
without having to cooperate with someone else, this approach
just won't be possible.

/Fredrik
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.xtrek,rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

In article <5gmqq098ff6vi9afaunndd19dv68866u5u@4ax.com>,
Gene Wirchenko <genew@mail.ocis.net> wrote:
>mol@df.lth.se (Magnus Olsson) wrote:
>
>>In article <41ac5986$1@news.broadpark.no>,
>>Jan Thorsby <no_jthorsby_spam@broadpark.no> wrote:
>>>Do you mean like in American schools? I think it is hard to understand how
>>>good a grade is with that system. I suspect many non-americans think the
>>>same.
>
> Do you really need antything more than
> A = Excellent
> B = Very Good
> C = Adequate
> D = Marginal
> F = Fail
>
> YMWV anyway.

Well, you still have to know that the scale comprises those letters
- unlike, for example, the pre-1960's Swedish system which used the
grades A, a, Ab, BA, B and C or something like that (I'm too young
ever to have experienced it).

>>Numeric scores have a big advantage: it's very easy to average them,
>>add them, comput estandard deviations, and other statistic
>>operations. With letter grades you have to have some translation
>
> ...and otherwise pretend that one is performing valid operations
>on data.

Yes. 🙂 Whether they're valid or not, people will be interested in
things like average scores, standard deviations and such. If nothing
else, they can pretend that these numbers mean anything.

(And I submit that they do, but in a rather fuzzy way, given that
enough people grade enough games. If one gazillion people give my
game a low grade, it probably means something.)

>>scheme to numbers before you can do that - and then what's the point
>>with the letters?
>
> But the statistics are rather meaningless. Is a seven for one
>game the same as a seven for another?

Aye, that's the rub.

But people will do statistics, if nothing else then just for the
sheer joy of data manipulation. Using letter grades won't stop them,
it will just add a meaningless level of complication.

--
Magnus Olsson (mol@df.lth.se)
PGP Public Key available at http://www.df.lth.se/~mol
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.xtrek,rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

Magnus Olsson wrote in news:315cicF37fsdoU1@individual.net:

> In article <5gmqq098ff6vi9afaunndd19dv68866u5u@4ax.com>,
> Gene Wirchenko <genew@mail.ocis.net> wrote:
>>mol@df.lth.se (Magnus Olsson) wrote:
>>
>> Do you really need antything more than
>> A = Excellent
>> B = Very Good
>> C = Adequate
>> D = Marginal
>> F = Fail
>>
>> YMWV anyway.
>
> Well, you still have to know that the scale comprises those
> letters - unlike, for example, the pre-1960's Swedish system which
> used the grades A, a, Ab, BA, B and C or something like that (I'm
> too young ever to have experienced it).

For those as curious as me, here's the complete old Swedish scale
(I'm also too young, but I consulted my mother):

A = Excellent, Laudatur = 3
a = Passed with great distinction, Cum insigniore laude approbatur=2½
AB= Passed with distinction, Cum laude approbatur = 2
Ba= Passed with credit, Non sine laude approbatur = 1½
B = Passed, Approbatur = 1
BC= Not fully passed (no latin phrase) = ½
C = Failed, Non admittur = 0

In addition, there was a second scale, used for grading behaviour:

A = Very good
B = Good
C = Less good
D = Bad

And a third, for order:

A = Very good
B = Good
C = Less good

Rikard
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.xtrek,rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

"John W. Kennedy" <jwkenne@attglobal.net> writes:

> Magnus Olsson wrote:
> > Numeric scores have a big advantage: it's very easy to average them,
> > add them, comput estandard deviations, and other statistic
> > operations. With letter grades you have to have some translation
> > scheme to numbers before you can do that - and then what's the point
> > with the letters?
>
> Traditionally, A=4, B=3, C=2, D=1, F=0.

In one country out of nearly two hundred... 🙂

--
Esa Peuha
student of mathematics at the University of Helsinki
http://www.helsinki.fi/~peuha/
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.xtrek,rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

"John W. Kennedy" <jwkenne@attglobal.net> skrev i melding
news:I98rd.3470$197.3127@fe12.lga...
> Magnus Olsson wrote:
>> Numeric scores have a big advantage: it's very easy to average them,
>> add them, comput estandard deviations, and other statistic
>> operations. With letter grades you have to have some translation
>> scheme to numbers before you can do that - and then what's the point
>> with the letters?
>
> Traditionally, A=4, B=3, C=2, D=1, F=0.

Oh so there is no E? That explains a lot!
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.xtrek,rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

On Wed, 1 Dec 2004, RootShell wrote:

> Hope noone gets upset at this but the international/universal interger
> numeric rating was adopted (based on several email/opinions), meaning
> reviewers will be using a 0 to 10 integer scale (no decimals), with 0
> being the worst and 10 the best.
>
> This appears to be the best practice, and enables several reviewers
> worldwide to just paste their existing reviews at ifreviews, without the
> need to change their rate.

Except that most reviews I've seen tend to follow the IF Comp's practice,
which is a scale that starts at 1, not 0. A minor difference.

/====================================================================\
|| Quintin Stone O- > "You speak of necessary evil? One ||
|| Code Monkey < of those necessities is that if ||
|| Rebel Programmers Society > innocents must suffer, the guilty must ||
|| stone@rps.net < suffer more." -- Mackenzie Calhoun ||
|| http://www.rps.net/QS/ > "Once Burned" by Peter David ||
\====================================================================/
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.xtrek,rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

"Jan Thorsby" <no_jthorsby_spam@broadpark.no> writes:

> "John W. Kennedy" <jwkenne@attglobal.net> skrev i melding
> news:I98rd.3470$197.3127@fe12.lga...

> > Traditionally, A=4, B=3, C=2, D=1, F=0.
>
> Oh so there is no E? That explains a lot!

That's right. Otherwise it would be too easy to change F to E.

--
Esa Peuha
student of mathematics at the University of Helsinki
http://www.helsinki.fi/~peuha/
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.xtrek,rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

"John W. Kennedy" <jwkenne@attglobal.net> escreveu na mensagem
news:I98rd.3470$197.3127@fe12.lga...
> Magnus Olsson wrote:
> > Numeric scores have a big advantage: it's very easy to average them,
> > add them, comput estandard deviations, and other statistic
> > operations. With letter grades you have to have some translation
> > scheme to numbers before you can do that - and then what's the point
> > with the letters?
>
> Traditionally, A=4, B=3, C=2, D=1, F=0.
>
> I think the letters have stuck because it's easier to remember "A is
> best" than to remember "4 is best". But any reasonably bright
> high-school student knows what a "4.0 average" means.

Hope noone gets upset at this but the international/universal interger
numeric rating was adopted (based on several email/opinions), meaning
reviewers will be using a 0 to 10 integer scale (no decimals), with 0 being
the worst and 10 the best.

This appears to be the best practice, and enables several reviewers
worldwide to just paste their existing reviews at ifreviews, without the
need to change their rate.

Regards,
RootShell
 
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