Any budget gaming rig - upgrading after 8 years

[evilphish]

Hey there,

I am in dire need of buying a new gaming rig as my trusty Core2Extreme build using a GTX295 from almost 10 years ago is starting to fail on me. (And yes, 768 MB of graphics ram is also not exactly "up to date" anymore)

So this of course means that probably everything I could buy would be an upgrade anyway. The problem is that I can not - for the love of me - decide which CPU to start out with. I was eagerly awating the latest skylake-x series only to have my hopes crushed by the thermal issues that also got reported in detail here on toms. So should I go for a 7700k? Or rather a Ryzen? But what about the lesser clock speed over there? Maybe wait even some more?

So please people, help me out and throw in some ideas. Money is luckily no object, after not buying a new pc for a decade I am willing to sink a couple grand if it has to be but at the same time I am not interested in "too-far-out-there" things like a dual xeon server board approach. Preferably I want something that lasts me another 10 years ;-)

I am also planning on doing an open loop watercooled system this time around using a 1080 Ti HydroCopper from EVGA. Also eyeballed a Phanteks Enthoo Primo case but not sure whether I could go smaller than that.
For your convenience, here's the glorious template:

Approximate Purchase Date: The sooner the better but the Hydro Copper is not due till end of August

Budget Range: No limit

System Usage from Most to Least Important: Gaming exclusively

Are you buying a monitor: Maybe, thinking of some WQHD widescreen curved thingy... at the moment I have a 24" 1920x1200 screen (which is also more than a decade of age)

Parts to Upgrade: heh everything ^^

Do you need to buy OS: No

Preferred Website(s) for Parts: Don't care, I am from germany but I am not expecting for people to go through the trouble of looking up the best price for me. Just suggestions as to the hardware would be most welcome.

Location: Germany

Parts Preferences: Don't really care, I am quite fond of the EVGA Graphics Cards but if there's a viable watercooling-ready alternative I am listening.

Overclocking: Yes

SLI or Crossfire: Don't know whether this is still recommended. I was thinking one overclocked, watercooled 1080 Ti should last a while.

Your Monitor Resolution: 1920x1200 but I am more than willing to invest in a new monitor

Additional Comments: Only performance and no bling. I do not care at all for lighting, sleeves, etc. I want a workhorse for gaming and it is going to sit below my desk where noone will look at it

And Most Importantly, Why Are You Upgrading: I would like to play newer titles and also with my graphics card I am running into "your card does not support Dx11" problems. Appart from it being old and not up to the task anymore. Also the pc restarts randomly sometimes which is annoying and I am not bothering with replacement parts for a 10 year old rig...


I am looking forward to your suggestions, thank you very much in advance.

cheers
phishy

 

[M04D18]

Well 8 years is a long time , pc technology may advance and whatever build you create now will want upgrade to support future games/programms .

For future-proof i recommend a Ryzen build ( more core/threads) :

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 7 1700 3.0GHz 8-Core Processor ($289.88 @ OutletPC)
CPU Cooler: NZXT - Kraken X62 Rev 2 98.2 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($147.20 @ NCIX US)
Motherboard: Gigabyte - GA-AX370-Gaming K5 ATX AM4 Motherboard ($148.48 @ OutletPC)
Memory: G.Skill - Ripjaws V Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($249.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Crucial - MX300 525GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($154.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Storage: Seagate - FireCuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Hybrid Internal Hard Drive ($90.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: Gigabyte - GeForce GTX 1080 Ti 11GB AORUS Video Card ($708.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Case: Fractal Design - Define XL R2 (Black Pearl) ATX Full Tower Case ($119.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Power Supply: EVGA - SuperNOVA G2 750W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($109.00 @ Amazon)
Total: $2019.51
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-08-06 04:39 EDT-0400


No limit / unrealistic :

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD - Threadripper 1920X 3.5GHz 12-Core Processor ($799.00 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: NZXT - Kraken X62 Rev 2 98.2 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($147.20 @ NCIX US)
Motherboard: Asus - ROG ZENITH EXTREME EATX TR4 Motherboard ($549.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: G.Skill - Ripjaws V Series 64GB (4 x 16GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($544.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung - 960 EVO 500GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($234.00 @ B&H)
Storage: Seagate - FireCuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Hybrid Internal Hard Drive ($90.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: EVGA - GeForce GTX 1080 Ti 11GB SC2 HYBRID GAMING Video Card (2-Way SLI) ($789.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: EVGA - GeForce GTX 1080 Ti 11GB SC2 HYBRID GAMING Video Card (2-Way SLI) ($789.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Fractal Design - Define XL R2 (Black Pearl) ATX Full Tower Case ($119.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Power Supply: Corsair - AX1500i 1500W 80+ Titanium Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($429.99 @ Amazon)
Monitor: Asus - PG279Q ROG Swift 27.0" 2560x1440 165Hz Monitor ($799.00 @ B&H)
Total: $5295.13
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-08-06 04:36 EDT-0400

 

[coozie7]

Made some changes to the build posted by MO4D18:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 7 1700 3.0GHz 8-Core Processor (€292.94 @ Mindfactory)
Motherboard: Gigabyte - GA-AX370-Gaming K5 ATX AM4 Motherboard (€156.28 @ Mindfactory)
Memory: G.Skill - Ripjaws V Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3000 Memory (€131.94 @ Mindfactory)
Storage: Crucial - MX300 1.1TB 2.5" Solid State Drive (€270.44 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Video Card: EVGA - GeForce GTX 1080 Ti 11GB SC Black Edition Video Card (€799.90 @ Caseking)
Case: Phanteks - Enthoo Luxe ATX Full Tower Case (€129.90 @ Caseking)
Power Supply: SeaSonic - FOCUS Plus Gold 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply (€94.84 @ Mindfactory)
Total: €1876.24
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-08-06 11:33 CEST+0200

If you're going open loop later I can't see any reason to use that big Kraken in the build, it's just a waste, besides the bundled Wraith cooler isn't that bad.

Dropped to 16Gb of DDR4 3000 RAM to save some cash.

Moved to an all SSD storage with the money saved.

Chose an EVGA non watercooled card, EVGA will allow you to swap out their cooler without losing the warranty and a separate full cover block will be significantly cheaper than buying a card with either hybrid cooling or a pre installed water block.

That BIG Enthoo Luxe may be a little large but it has almost unrivalled water cooling support.

Top class, fully modular Seasonic PSU.

All the above are just suggestions, we can make amendments to suit your tastes/budget/needs easily enough.

 

[TrAAst]

Mouseover my avatar, that's exactly what I'd suggest for 1440p144hz.

 

[evilphish]

Well 8 years is a long time , pc technology may advance and whatever build you create now will want upgrade to support future games/programms .

For future-proof i recommend a Ryzen build ( more core/threads) :

CPU: AMD - Threadripper 1920X 3.5GHz 12-Core Processor ($799.00 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: NZXT - Kraken X62 Rev 2 98.2 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($147.20 @ NCIX US)
Motherboard: Asus - ROG ZENITH EXTREME EATX TR4 Motherboard ($549.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: G.Skill - Ripjaws V Series 64GB (4 x 16GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($544.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung - 960 EVO 500GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($234.00 @ B&H)
Storage: Seagate - FireCuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Hybrid Internal Hard Drive ($90.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: EVGA - GeForce GTX 1080 Ti 11GB SC2 HYBRID GAMING Video Card (2-Way SLI) ($789.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: EVGA - GeForce GTX 1080 Ti 11GB SC2 HYBRID GAMING Video Card (2-Way SLI) ($789.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Fractal Design - Define XL R2 (Black Pearl) ATX Full Tower Case ($119.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Power Supply: Corsair - AX1500i 1500W 80+ Titanium Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($429.99 @ Amazon)
Monitor: Asus - PG279Q ROG Swift 27.0" 2560x1440 165Hz Monitor ($799.00 @ B&H)
Total: $5295.13
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-08-06 04:36 EDT-0400

Hey, thanks for your suggestions!
The threadripper setup actually looks quite interesting. I would probably only go with one GPU and watercool both the CPU and the GPU but still.... not quite sure now. I thought the 1080 Ti suffers from thermal throttling if it is aircooled. Any experience on that front? Of course a Kraken closed loop cpu cooler and an aircooled gpu would be less maintenance intensive over time.

And how do you get the DDR4 3200 to work, seeing as AMD states they support 2667 MHz at the most?

Also of course the question is whether games will actually benefit from all those threads. AMD has been proclaiming for years that their higher core count cpus will one day best Intel once the publishers start to shift their focus on multithreading but so far raw GHz has always been more important than core count for gaming. It feels like I have been hearing the "futureproof" song for years now and the first hyped AMD higher core count systems are already outdated without the "future" ever arriving in their lifetime. Meanwhile the 4 core 8 thread high clock speed cpus still have one field day after the other. Of course after the latest thermal and price disaster that is called skylake-x I do get the feeling that the AMD cpus look better and better. So if I have to choose among low clock speed - high core count CPUs because this is where CPU manufacturers are headed I can't help but think AMD gives you more bang for your buck right now.
Do you run AMD personally?

And do you own the monitor you suggested yourself? Do you notice a lot of backlight bleeding?

cheers
phishy

 

[M04D18]

Well 8 years is a long time , pc technology may advance and whatever build you create now will want upgrade to support future games/programms .

For future-proof i recommend a Ryzen build ( more core/threads) :

CPU: AMD - Threadripper 1920X 3.5GHz 12-Core Processor ($799.00 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: NZXT - Kraken X62 Rev 2 98.2 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($147.20 @ NCIX US)
Motherboard: Asus - ROG ZENITH EXTREME EATX TR4 Motherboard ($549.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: G.Skill - Ripjaws V Series 64GB (4 x 16GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($544.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung - 960 EVO 500GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($234.00 @ B&H)
Storage: Seagate - FireCuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Hybrid Internal Hard Drive ($90.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: EVGA - GeForce GTX 1080 Ti 11GB SC2 HYBRID GAMING Video Card (2-Way SLI) ($789.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: EVGA - GeForce GTX 1080 Ti 11GB SC2 HYBRID GAMING Video Card (2-Way SLI) ($789.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Fractal Design - Define XL R2 (Black Pearl) ATX Full Tower Case ($119.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Power Supply: Corsair - AX1500i 1500W 80+ Titanium Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($429.99 @ Amazon)
Monitor: Asus - PG279Q ROG Swift 27.0" 2560x1440 165Hz Monitor ($799.00 @ B&H)
Total: $5295.13
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-08-06 04:36 EDT-0400

Hey, thanks for your suggestions!
The threadripper setup actually looks quite interesting. I would probably only go with one GPU and watercool both the CPU and the GPU but still.... not quite sure now. I thought the 1080 Ti suffers from thermal throttling if it is aircooled. Any experience on that front? Of course a Kraken closed loop cpu cooler and an aircooled gpu would be less maintenance intensive over time.

And how do you get the DDR4 3200 to work, seeing as AMD states they support 2667 MHz at the most?

Also of course the question is whether games will actually benefit from all those threads. AMD has been proclaiming for years that their higher core count cpus will one day best Intel once the publishers start to shift their focus on multithreading but so far raw GHz has always been more important than core count for gaming. It feels like I have been hearing the "futureproof" song for years now and the first hyped AMD higher core count systems are already outdated without the "future" ever arriving in their lifetime. Meanwhile the 4 core 8 thread high clock speed cpus still have one field day after the other. Of course after the latest thermal and price disaster that is called skylake-x I do get the feeling that the AMD cpus look better and better. So if I have to choose among low clock speed - high core count CPUs because this is where CPU manufacturers are headed I can't help but think AMD gives you more bang for your buck right now.
Do you run AMD personally?

And do you own the monitor you suggested yourself? Do you notice a lot of backlight bleeding?

cheers
phishy

I bought my pc before Ryzens were available to markets ( i got i7 - 7700k) ,
I ve seen my strix 1080ti ( aircooled) max at 72c .
You can make the ram run at 3200mhz via XMP profile .
Yes i own the monitor i suggested and i dont have to say any cons about it ( No light, no tired eyes etc)
Also i made that build just for fun , I didnt think you gonna think about it , it can be vasty improved. For gaming Threadripper is an overkill in my opinion , an overclocked 1700 will be fine and enough future-proof.

 

[evilphish]

I bought my pc before Ryzens were available to markets ( i got i7 - 7700k) ,
I ve seen my strix 1080ti ( aircooled) max at 72c .
You can make the ram run at 3200mhz via XMP profile .
Yes i own the monitor i suggested and i dont have to say any cons about it ( No light, no tired eyes etc)
Also i made that build just for fun , I didnt think you gonna think about it , it can be vasty improved. For gaming Threadripper is an overkill in my opinion , an overclocked 1700 will be fine and enough future-proof.

Well I am open to all sorts of crazy suggestions And I was also eyeballing the setup of TrAAst with his 7700k. It is just difficult to decide whether that is still the most viable option or if finally (after years of proclaiming it) it actually makes sense to invest into something with more cores but less clock speed per core. I guess the question is will the decision for a Ryzen be able to bite me in the ass and will I maybe not be able to enjoy some titles as much because of the lesser clock speed per core. Or is that whole discussion moot since any of these rigs is enough for 1440p with maxed settings and I should only be concerned about the "future-proofness" of whatever I am going to buy?

 

[M04D18]

I bought my pc before Ryzens were available to markets ( i got i7 - 7700k) ,
I ve seen my strix 1080ti ( aircooled) max at 72c .
You can make the ram run at 3200mhz via XMP profile .
Yes i own the monitor i suggested and i dont have to say any cons about it ( No light, no tired eyes etc)
Also i made that build just for fun , I didnt think you gonna think about it , it can be vasty improved. For gaming Threadripper is an overkill in my opinion , an overclocked 1700 will be fine and enough future-proof.

Well I am open to all sorts of crazy suggestions And I was also eyeballing the setup of TrAAst with his 7700k. It is just difficult to decide whether that is still the most viable option or if finally (after years of proclaiming it) it actually makes sense to invest into something with more cores but less clock speed per core. I guess the question is will the decision for a Ryzen be able to bite me in the ass and will I maybe not be able to enjoy some titles as much because of the lesser clock speed per core. Or is that whole discussion moot since any of these rigs is enough for 1440p with maxed settings and I should only be concerned about the "future-proofness" of whatever I am going to buy?

7700k is superior to Ryzen in 1080p , at 1440p / 4k differences are minimal . Also you can easily overclock the ryzen to 4ghz. or you can go with 1800x ( check list) . At this moment i think more cores are more future-proof ( Intel's new i5 will come with 6 cores/6threads ) .


PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 7 1800X 3.6GHz 8-Core Processor ($419.99 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: NZXT - Kraken X61 106.1 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($126.89 @ B&H)
Motherboard: Asus - STRIX X370-F GAMING ATX AM4 Motherboard ($154.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill - Ripjaws V Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($249.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Crucial - MX300 525GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($154.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Storage: Seagate - FireCuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Hybrid Internal Hard Drive ($90.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: Asus - GeForce GTX 1080 Ti 11GB STRIX GAMING Video Card ($799.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Case: Corsair - Crystal 460X RGB ATX Mid Tower Case ($139.99 @ B&H)
Power Supply: EVGA - SuperNOVA P2 750W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($139.88 @ OutletPC)
Monitor: Asus - PG279Q ROG Swift 27.0" 2560x1440 165Hz Monitor ($799.00 @ B&H)
Total: $3076.70
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-08-06 07:26 EDT-0400


* If you dont want RGB just change case and gpu ( optimal)

 

[coozie7]

^ Like the man says, there's very little difference between an i7 7700K and a Ryzen 1800/1800X at 1440 rez, if you were using strictly a high refresh 1080 screen then Intel would be the way to go but for your planned 1440 screen there's not enough difference to split the two makers.

Aiming at long term ownership is tricky, there's always the possibility something better will come along in a few months but right now, for a pure gaming system intended to last for a very long time, I'm as convinced as MO4D18 that Ryzen is the way to go.

Do you intend to go open loop? If not a good AIO makes some sense, but for a workhorse system going all air reduces maintenance even further and is cheaper.
If you DO intend to go open loop then it makes no sense to get an expensive AIO, only to, effectively, throw it away later, better to get a half decent air cooler now to save money.
Not sure about the GTX1080Ti but my GTX1080 likes to be watercooled, the stock MSI Armour cooler was good but the card still dropped from maximum boost over time, under water it'll run at 1950MHz all day.
As I said earlier: EVGA usually allow users to swap coolers without invalidating their excellent warranty service but check the German terms and conditions and it'll be cheaper to get an aircooled card then install a custom waterblock than to get a card with a factory installed waterblock or one with a hybrid cooler.

 

[evilphish]

^ Like the man says, there's very little difference between an i7 7700K and a Ryzen 1800/1800X at 1440 rez, if you were using strictly a high refresh 1080 screen then Intel would be the way to go but for your planned 1440 screen there's not enough difference to split the two makers.

Aiming at long term ownership is tricky, there's always the possibility something better will come along in a few months but right now, for a pure gaming system intended to last for a very long time, I'm as convinced as MO4D18 that Ryzen is the way to go.

Do you intend to go open loop? If not a good AIO makes some sense, but for a workhorse system going all air reduces maintenance even further and is cheaper.
If you DO intend to go open loop then it makes no sense to get an expensive AIO, only to, effectively, throw it away later, better to get a half decent air cooler now to save money.
Not sure about the GTX1080Ti but my GTX1080 likes to be watercooled, the stock MSI Armour cooler was good but the card still dropped from maximum boost over time, under water it'll run at 1950MHz all day.
As I said earlier: EVGA usually allow users to swap coolers without invalidating their excellent warranty service but check the German terms and conditions and it'll be cheaper to get an aircooled card then install a custom waterblock than to get a card with a factory installed waterblock or one with a hybrid cooler.

Hey coozie7, thanks so much for your input. I fully intend to go open loop. I am also not yet sold on which components to get but I am leaning towards alphacool as they are german based and thus it might be easier to get on their nerves if something is not working right.
Regarding the watercooled GPU I have heard that the factory overclocked GPUs are usually the ones with more headroom as the manufacturers reserve the best dies for their "special" editions. So I wonder whether I can get the same amount of overclocking if I just buy the cheapest EVGA 1080 Ti there is and slap on a waterblock.
Also the question comes to mind whether to go for the Ryzen footprint or jump on the Threadripper wagon with maybe the smaller 1920X though I doubt that many threads will make a difference in games.
I am not doing much else with the PC other than game and maybe stream a little.

 

[TrAAst]

Threadripper is completely unnecessary. Games are even far away from utilizing the R7s 16 threads.

 

[coozie7]

Alphacool are usually good, but their blocks are usually quite restrictive, so be sure to get a pump with a strong delivery head (pressure) for the loop.

Not sure about the selection of GPU chips for upmarket parts, my own GTX1080 (MSI GTX1080 Armour OC edition) is one of the cheapest available in England and did drop its Boost frequency under the stock air cooler but runs solidly at 1950 under water, this seems to be normal behaviour with Nvidia chips, so cooling and temperature seems to be more important than binning.

Maybe not the cheapest GTX1080Ti available, but a decent one would be advisable, and, as I have already said, EVGA usually allow users to swap coolers without voiding the warranty, and with such an expensive purchase I'll strongly advise you look closely into the warranty terms and conditions of any card you have in mind.
Cards with built in water blocks are more expensive than those without, it's up to you how to proceed, a card with a factory fitted water block has that nice warranty and you won't need to strip it out to install a water block, while adding a block to an air cooled card is more work, you'll have the advantage of choosing EXACTLY which block to use.

Hard to tell on games. Right now, at this moment in time, the i7 7700K aces the best Ryzen available at 1440 rez, but only just. If I were building for ME, right now, for a gaming system, I'd go Ryzen for the extra cores and threads, not for now, but for the future.

I you're thinking of Threadripper wait until August 14th when it'll be fully released and reviewed, then, and only then, will you be able to make an informed decision, for Gods sake, don't preorder until the real data is available.

 

[evilphish]

Alphacool are usually good, but their blocks are usually quite restrictive, so be sure to get a pump with a strong delivery head (pressure) for the loop.

Not sure about the selection of GPU chips for upmarket parts, my own GTX1080 (MSI GTX1080 Armour OC edition) is one of the cheapest available in England and did drop its Boost frequency under the stock air cooler but runs solidly at 1950 under water, this seems to be normal behaviour with Nvidia chips, so cooling and temperature seems to be more important than binning.

Maybe not the cheapest GTX1080Ti available, but a decent one would be advisable, and, as I have already said, EVGA usually allow users to swap coolers without voiding the warranty, and with such an expensive purchase I'll strongly advise you look closely into the warranty terms and conditions of any card you have in mind.
Cards with built in water blocks are more expensive than those without, it's up to you how to proceed, a card with a factory fitted water block has that nice warranty and you won't need to strip it out to install a water block, while adding a block to an air cooled card is more work, you'll have the advantage of choosing EXACTLY which block to use.

Hard to tell on games. Right now, at this moment in time, the i7 7700K aces the best Ryzen available at 1440 rez, but only just. If I were building for ME, right now, for a gaming system, I'd go Ryzen for the extra cores and threads, not for now, but for the future.

I you're thinking of Threadripper wait until August 14th when it'll be fully released and reviewed, then, and only then, will you be able to make an informed decision, for Gods sake, don't preorder until the real data is available.

I guess TrAAst is right in that the Threadripper makes no sense for gaming as no game will utilize it in any meaningful way. So focusing on the 1800X instead would you still go with the GA-AX370 from Gigabyte? And would you stick with the K5 or go for the K7 and get the NVMe bay?
Regarding the ASUS Strix that M suggested I have to say that I had a horrible customer support experience with ASUS a couple years ago involving a very expensive mainboard so - without knowing if things have changed in the meantime - I feel better staying away from anything made by ASUS ^^

Oh and do you have a recommendation pump-wise that has enough head pressure? What are you using as a watercooling setup? Also the radiator would be of interest to me.

And thank you all again for your input, I do feel like I am getting somewhere decision-wise so this is good

 

[coozie7]

Well, at least we have decided on the CPU.

Which MB will really depend on what storage you'll be using, or plan on upgrading to. All the builds so far have used a SATA 2.5" SSD I order to keep the cost within about two thousand Euro while putting the bulk of the money into the CPU/GPU, but of the two, I'd go for the K7.

Understand your concerns with customer service, and it's your money so spend it as you see fit, mate, we're here to offer advice, not instructions.

With your intention to go for a full loop I'll strongly suggest you opt for an EVGA card, they're one of the few (if not the only one) that allows users to remove the coolers without voiding the warranty, and with cards as expensive as the GTX1080/1080Ti I wouldn't advise a poster here to void their warranty, even though I've done so myself.

Any pump with a 2 metre head (or a little more) can easily handle a single CPU/GPU loop and 400Litres per hour output is again plenty. But more won't hurt.

Right now, I'll suggest you build an all air system and take some time to learn about water cooling before making the plunge. It is a fairly complex subject and it'll take some time for you to get to grips with it. It is easy for a first timer to make expensive mistakes and you need to be very sure about your aims: Even with a big radiator it'll produce some noise if you aim at the lowest temperatures, while a very quiet system will tend to run a little hotter.
Choice of case is critical, it must be able to carry at least a 30mm thick 360mm radiator, preferably in the roof, and have a large front opening to allow cool air into the case.

 

[evilphish]

Well, I was planning on using something like a 512 GB M2 SSD and maybe a 2 TB normal drive in addition. Maybe even a 1 TB SSD, depends a bit on whether the GB to EUR ratio is already reasonable for those. I really don't mind spending money but it does have to make sense somehow at least

Which also means if you can think of a reason to go for something else than a K7 I am happy to hear alternatives.

Regarding the card I was already somewhat set on EVGA anyway so the big question is whether to order an aircooled one or directly go for the HydroCopper. For example the 1080 Ti FTW3 iCX HydroCopper I can get for 1k EUR. The FTW3 aircooled version I can get for 830 EUR but then I need a waterblock. For example EK-FC1080 GTX Ti FTW3 - Nickel which is another 120 EUR which brings me to 950. If I now want a backplate as well that is another 30 but even without that saving 50 EUR on a 1k EUR GPU and putting the waterblock on myself does not seem to make a lot of sense to me. Might just as well buy the HydroCopper in that case, or what do you think?

Pump-wise, how about something like the Alphacool VPP655 PWM? https://www.alphacool.com/shop/pumps/alphacool-pumps/17524/alphacool-vpp655-pwm-single-edition?c=20556

Head Pressure: 3.7 m
Max Flowrate: 1500 l/h

I would probably go directly to watercooling as well. While this would be my first watercooled PC I am a laser physicist by profession and when watercooling experimental setups in my lab I have to be careful not to wreck things which are a lot more expensive than any PC you can think of ;-) So I am at least not a complete novice when it comes to connections, hoses, etc. Of course in the lab we use dedicated chillers which are also mighty expensive.
Nonetheless I am very much interested in any tips and tricks or common mistakes since I rather hear something I already know or figured out twice than miss something important

Radiator wise I was thinking of maybe a 30 mm 420 in push-pull or if I want a thicker rad I could only to a pull configuration. The Phanteks Enthoo Luxe has 65 mm clearance above the Motherboard which does not include the fans on top of this space as they go into a dedicated compartment. So with 25 mm fan thickess I have either 40 mm radiator thickness for push-pull or 65 mm for pull only.
Then I might add another 240 rad in the front and if need be I could add another 240 to the bottom.

Another option might be the Phanteks Enthoo Primo which is seriously huge but then again you have loads of space everywhere. I could put a 420 in the top, a 480 in the bottom and a 240 in the front as well. But I get the distinct feeling that all of this would be serious overkill for an 1800X and a 1080Ti...

When it comes to radiators I find it very hard to get a thermal dissipation rating from the manufacturers as in how many watts I can actually get rid of with a certain rad and lets say room temperature.

So, lots of things still to discuss and I am extremely grateful for your input (We can also move this to e-mail or or so if you want)

cheers
phishy

 

[coozie7]

Your storage plan makes sense: 515Gb (or 1Tb) SSD plus a big HDD for bulk storage and archival purposes. One thing, you may want to use an external HDD, running it only when needed, I've found that no matter how I install a HDD it always makes a constant noise which can be surprisingly loud-and annoying.

The K7 looks fine.

You make a valid point on cost with the Hydro Copper, but also look for other makers with similar products, such a beast may be a little difficult to source.

The Alphacool is a fine pump and will have no problems with even a very large loop.

Sounds as if you're already ahead of me on the watercooling! Most of the mistakes are: Not allowing enough space for the parts, not planning the loop and ordering the wrong fittings, overtightening the fittings in the waterblocks-hand tight plus a nip is enough, not matching the hose and fitting sizes, not matching the radiator/fans to the heat load and not adding enough control for the fans-either a manual controller or a powered PWM hub for example.
Little hint: A smear of petroleum jelly on the fitting barbs makes it much easier to push the hoses on.

In all likelihood a 30-40mm 420 will be more than enough, my i7 6700/GTX1080 is running off a Black Ice Nemisis 420x25mm rad and, TBH the rig is overcooled to the point where most of the time I only run 2 out of 3 fans engaging the third only under gaming load.
The Enthoo Luxe will, just, accept a 420 rad in the roof but it's a tight squeeze! I had to partially disassemble the case to get it in the main compartment but my rad is a little wider than most.
Of course something as vast as the Enthoo Primo is unlikely to have these issues.

Maybe another poster will have more info but these guys have some in depth reviews, even if some are dated: http://www.xtremerigs.net/

And no, don't go PM only, keep the thread open so others can contribute, after all, I have some knowledge, but God I'm not!

 

[coozie7]

This thread is getting very long, maybe you'd like to start a new one now that your intentions and aims are clearer.
Quite a few won't read through a long thread like this so I feel you could be missing out on some valuable advice, particularly in the water cooling area.

In the meantime this is effectively all liquid cooled, but not by a custom loop (and it uses UK sources): https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/user/coozie7/saved/#view=XRr999
Maybe not exactly what you have in mind and the Kraken may not be compatible with the R7 1800X CPU but it should give some idea as to what I think you're after.

 

[evilphish]

Your take definately goes into the right direction I think. I will take a day or so to collect some parts and prices, especially the watercooling bits and pieces, and then I will either post that in a new thread or pin it into this one. Depending on what problems I run into, this might make more sense than starting a new one but we will see.
Btw, do you think quad channel ram would make a big difference? I noticed that even with the small threadripper one can also get quad channel capability. Compared to the dual channel with the 1800x. I would guess that the added costs do not make up for the increase in performance but then again I am not quite sure on how much of an improvement we are actually talking about when comparing dual and quad channel ram.

cheers
phishy

 

[coozie7]

Personally, I'd stay away from quad channel memory for a Ryzen build, AFAIK there are some quirks AMD has yet to resolve, both with compatibility and speed, with quad channel memory often running a good deal slower than dual channel, which in a Ryzen build hurts performance significantly.

Just before you pull the trigger:
In your line of work you may need to use this system for proper scientific work, if so maybe a threadripper might be a useful investment, the release is scheduled for August 14th...Maybe you'd like to hang on and see what happens then before making a final decision on the CPU/MB/RAM combination.

And yes, I'd start a new thread and link this one.

 

[evilphish]

Thanks for the memory info. Did not know there were specific Ryzen related problems with it.
I also wanted to wait for the coffeelake unveiling in a couple of days. Who knows maybe Intel drops the bomb even though I highly doubt that. Then I wanted to wait for at least the Threadripper review here on Toms but even though you make a valid point in general about my job, this is still supposed to be a play-machine for me

At work I run my research simulations on my work pc and if all else fails and I need something really beefy I can use our computing cluster of our universities physics-IT department which is way beyond anything I would (or could) buy for myself when it comes to pure number crunching

Either way I don't think it will hurt to wait another week to see what pops up in the meantime. Also I can still scour the web for cooling parts etc as no matter which CPU I settle on I still need a case, radiators and all the other goodies

cheers
phishy

 

[coozie7]

OK, been playing with my own R7 1700 sidegrade (wanted the cores/threads for rendering) so I've been preoccupied.

Yep, try to stick to only memory from the motherboard makers approved list, other modules will undoubtedly work but the platform is still a little twitchy. Also check how the motherboard will respond to different modules, some will lower the memory speed significantly if 4 modules are used for example, the only way to check will be to download the online manual and see what it says, although this may also be in the basic specs provided by the vendor.

HE! HE! Only researchers and Bond Villains can afford such hardware.
Your call on the Threadripper, it's not really suitable for a gaming system due to its high cost but if you DO feel you need or may need to use this setup for work related tasks that NEED those cores and threads they'll be available...Something only you know.

As you say, either way it's sensible to wait and plan.

Good luck on your Path Witcher!