any good pci cards for gaming?

dinkster9 · Oct 1, 2003

Okay, my younger brother has a shuttle mb with an xp1400. Its nothing special, came with 8mb video onboard, with NO APG slot. I don't remember the model, not really important though. I want to get him a video card so he can at least play some games, he wants to play hl2, but I told him no chance in heck. Anyway:

Whats the best PCI video card you can buy for desktop gaming. Its got to have video out too (to use the computers dvd drive to display on the tv)

Is the gforce2 mx line the best there is price wise? P-G486 VGA CHAINTECH GEFORCE4 MX440 64MB PCI VGA+DVI+TV-OUT MODEL P-G486- RETAIL BOX .

the 400 420 440 and 440se are all about 50-60 bucks.

or for about 70-85 bucks:
PowerColor ATI Radeon 7500 64MB DDR PCI CRT+DVI+TV - Retail Box

GIGACUBE- ATI 9200 SE 128MB DDR " PCI" VGA Retail
PowerColor ATI Radeon 9000 64MB DDR PCI DVI+CRT+TV PCI Bus - Retail Box
VGFX5200P Gainward Nvidia GeForce FX 5200, PCI bus, 64mb DDR, dual monitors display, DVI port + CRT port + S-video
GeForce FX5200 128MB DDR TVO PCI by XFX (Retail)

120-150 range:

GeForce FX 5600 PCI w/128MB DDR(128Bits) + DVI + TV out + Dongle(DVI to CRT Converter) for Dual Head high speed DDR(4ns)Memory
ATI ALL-IN-WONDER RADEON 7500 VE 64MB DDR PCI VIVO Mpeg 2 Retail P/N#100-711041 Free Remote Wonder $50 Value AIW RADEON VE 64MB DDR PCI TV Tuner, DVI Video Capture/GamesCDs DVD/VCD/VCR/VIVO ($120 usd)

Any suggestions welcome, but spending 400+ for a new system is pretty much out of the question, so just a review of PCI video card suggestions would be more helpful. Is the $50 versions the best bang for the buck, or the 85 buck ati 9200se, or one of the few 5600fx cards which everyone hates for $120? I know PCI is limited, what should I BUY?

A7n8xDX2.0|B2500+@200x11=3200+(2.2ghz)(1.775v)Corsair512twinxpc3200llpt(2.8v)R9700P(stock)160Gx2WD7200RPM 8MB HD|Enermax460W|T:43C@N,50C@FL,MB 28C|3DMark2001 17087|3DMark2003 5134

ufo_warviper · Oct 1, 2003

Answer solved: Tell him to upgrade to an Radeon 9100IGP motherboard for $75 bucks. If he's willing. If not, then the FX5600 PCI would actaully be the best choic in this particular instance.

My OS features preemptive multitasking, a fully interactive command line, & support for 640K of RAM!

cleeve · Oct 1, 2003

While the FX has some troubles, the FX5600 is easily the best card you've listed as an option.

Although it's probably worth it to invest in a motherboard with an AGP slot, like UFO said. You should be able to pick one up for cheap.

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Radeon 9500 (modded to PRO w/8 pixel pipelines)
AMD AthlonXP 2000+
3dMark03: 3529

ufo_warviper · Oct 1, 2003

Yes, and the IGP 9100 board has an integrated graphics solution that's almost worth the value of a standalone card thats the same price as the motherboard itself. So its almost like he gets a worthwhile video card basically for free. He won't have top of the market graphic witht the Radeon 9100 IGP, but he will definitely have decent performance and could probably make ith through HL2 on a decent setting, (but not highest settings though). So when he runs into more money, he can just pop in an awesome AGP card and disable the decent integregrated Graphics solution.

My OS features preemptive multitasking, a fully interactive command line, & support for 640K of RAM!

dinkster9 · Oct 1, 2003

Thanks for the responses its a tough call. One question though, isn't the 9100IGP a pentium mb? I can't seem to find anything the suggests they are making AMD boards with this? He's running an XP1400+ cpu. Anyway, where do you buy a board with igp 9100? Asus supposidly made some, where are they?

So if I don't want to change anything besides the video card, i'm pretty much stuck with a fx5600?, aww, i guess I was just hoping for more...

A7n8xDX2.0|B2500+@200x11=3200+(2.2ghz)(1.775v)Corsair512twinxpc3200llpt(2.8v)R9700P(stock)160Gx2WD7200RPM 8MB HD|Enermax460W|T:43C@N,50C@FL,MB 28C|3DMark2001 17087|3DMark2003 5134

ufo_warviper · Oct 1, 2003

XP 1400+?" I've never heard of one. I'm pretty sure that the lowest XP CPUS is a 1500+ @1333MHz. Could he have a Thunderbird 1400MHz?

To answer your question, yes its a Pentium motherboard. A TB 1400MHz or an XP 1500+ has decent perfomance on games, but its not the fastest CPU out there by any stretch. Normally in a case invoving a 1400 or 1500, I wouldn't suggests a total platform upgrade, but if his motherboard has PCI only, his options are not only limited, but slower as well.

If he's on a tight budget, then he could buy the Radeon IGP9100 board for $75 bucks, he could stick in just about the cheapest Northwood he can find and. New RAM would be the optimal choice, but if he already has DDR RAM, chances are that he could plug in what he has in that in the board and still have better performance than any PCI card can get.

My OS features preemptive multitasking, a fully interactive command line, & support for 640K of RAM!

cleeve · Oct 1, 2003

Once you start buying a mobo, CPU, and STILL don't have a dedicated video card, I think maybe this isn't the most cost effective solution.

You're cheapest and easiest way out: buy the 5600

You're IDEAL way out: Buy 1 Athlon motherboard for cheap ($50) and 1 cheap and decent AGP videocard (A cheap $80 Geforce4 Ti4200 should fit the bill, but if you can afford it go 9600 PRO)
Then you have a processor AND video card upgrade path later.

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Radeon 9500 (modded to PRO w/8 pixel pipelines)
AMD AthlonXP 2000+
3dMark03: 3529

dinkster9 · Oct 1, 2003

AWWW yes, very much my bad on that goof up. ITS a 1600xp running at 1400mhz. lol, been a while. The case, mb, cpu, video, psu came assembled and shipped for 139 bucks. So as it was much better than his celeron 300a its nothing to rave about. However as he is my younger brother I paid for all of it (lol) and i'm not willing to drop too much more money into it before a complete rebuild say when he gets off his bottom and helps out a bit with the costs, until then, i figured his x-mas present could be a decient video card for something under the price I paid for the system hopefully.

Just how bad is the mx400 series? could the pci card play ut2003 or hl2 with every enhancement turned off at more than 1-3fps?

ps, i know he's screwed here, but I only have about 100 bucks to give him till after christmas at least. Hopefully then we can just build him a much better system. The IGP9100 looks very nice, but the cost for new ram, new cpu, and the mb itself is too much for now.

A7n8xDX2.0|B2500+@200x11=3200+(2.2ghz)(1.775v)Corsair512twinxpc3200llpt(2.8v)R9700P(stock)160Gx2WD7200RPM 8MB HD|Enermax460W|T:43C@N,50C@FL,MB 28C|3DMark2001 17087|3DMark2003 5134Edited by dinkster9 on 10/01/03 10:02 AM.

cleeve · Oct 1, 2003

Under $100, go AT LEAST Radeon 9000/9100/9200 or GeforceFX 5200.

The Geforce4 MX is only a DirectX 7 part, it has no pixel or vertex shaders at all, and can't do lots of stuff.

The Radeon 9000 is a DirectX 8 part and has very good shaders. The GeforceFX 5200 is a DirectX 9 part but has very weak shaders. But either card is decent in that price range.

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Radeon 9500 (modded to PRO w/8 pixel pipelines)
AMD AthlonXP 2000+
3dMark03: 3529

tombance · Oct 1, 2003

I would say go for an 8500/LE/9100 PCI. That would be an DX8 card with ok performance, somewhere in between that of the geforce 4 ti and the geforce 4 mx series

<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=6752830" target="_new">Yay, I Finally broke the 12k barrier!!</A>

ufo_warviper · Oct 2, 2003

That's what I'd say.

My OS features preemptive multitasking, a fully interactive command line, & support for 640K of RAM!

TKS · Oct 2, 2003

You can get a 64MB or 128MB ATI 9200 SE in PCI form. They're under a 100 bucks US. I'd go for that. I think Xtasy is the vendor I have seen the most on PCI cards. I'd say forget upgrading both MOBO and then buying a Graphics card....just go for the less than a hundred bucks addition to current ones. Also, check to see if the mobo can upgrade to around a faster speed AMD. If you can reach XP1700 or 1800, you should have decent performance.

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I'm not normally a religious man, but if you're up there, save me, Superman! Homer Simpson

ufo_warviper · Oct 2, 2003

The PCI only Graphics card upgrade would still be more of a bottleneck than his current CPU. Upgrading his CPU or overclocking his current one won't help with any of the available PCI cards.

My OS features preemptive multitasking, a fully interactive command line, & support for 640K of RAM!Edited by UFO_WARVIPER on 10/02/03 11:04 AM.

baldurga · Oct 2, 2003

Another vote for ATI option (8500/9100)

Also, don't know what mobo you have, but overclocking would be a nice option if it also overclocks PCI bus. You would gain for faster CPU, faster memory and improved PCI bus.

Also, bearing in mind that the system won't have to last for years, overclocking will not harm for sure.

Still looking for a good online retailer in Spain :frown: Edited by baldurga on 10/02/03 06:12 PM.

dinkster9 · Oct 2, 2003

lol, overclocking? I tracked it down, its a Shuttle MK20N KLE uATX VIA MB It uses pc-133 ram, has 8mb shared onboard video and doesn't even take xp processors, although i swear he's got a 1600xp, anyway, it could be the regular athlon running at 1400mhz. Doesn't appear to be upgradable to any faster cpu, the ram is the best you could get at the time, pc-133 micron cas 2.0 -7 256 megs (didn't work well with 512 megs).

The strange thing is that I can't find any jumpers on the motherboard and the bios doesn't have any options for adjusting different speeds of stuff. You can change some of the ram settings, but you can't change the cpu fsb for example. Is this possible, or did i just miss the jumpers/settings somewhere?...

Judging by how crappy this mb is, should i even waste money on the 9100?

A7n8xDX2.0|B2500+@200x11=3200+(2.2ghz)(1.775v)Corsair512twinxpc3200llpt(2-2-2-6)R9700P(stock)160Gx2WD7200RPM 8MB HD|Enermax460W|T:43C@N,50C@FL,MB 28C|3DMark2001 17087|3DMark2003 5134

ufo_warviper · Oct 2, 2003

I said earlier that the 9100 IGP could be a good choice if you can fork out a little more.

To answer your question though, yes you definitely see a peformance improvement, but with PC133 RAM & a PCI version of what would have been a decent card, your performance will be pretty weak, but probably not intolerable.

My OS features preemptive multitasking, a fully interactive command line, & support for 640K of RAM!

dinkster9 · Oct 2, 2003

cleeve · Oct 2, 2003

The 9100 is a rebadged 8500LE. Exact same card.

They stopped calling it the 8500 because it outperforms the 9000, and people were getting confused.

The 8500/9100 has 4 pipelines with 2 texture units per pipeline, while the 9000 has 4 pipelines with 1 texture unit per pipeline.

To further screw it up, the 9200 is a rebadged 9000 with 8xAGP added, but the 9100 outperforms it, too...

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Radeon 9500 (modded to PRO w/8 pixel pipelines)
AMD AthlonXP 2400+
3dMark03: 3586

dinkster9 · Oct 2, 2003

is there a certain way to look up the IGP9100 card on pricewatch, I can't seem to find any listings for it at all. Is the 9100igp a Radon 7000 build on video? My research doesn't seem to be making any sense. Anyway, If i'm going to buy new everything, I definitly wouldn't get a board with onboard video, I would probably get another a7n8x with a barton 2500 for around 200 bucks and then buy a 9700R video card for it.

A7n8xDX2.0|B2500+@200x11=3200+(2.2ghz)(1.775v)Corsair512twinxpc3200llpt(2-2-2-6)R9700P(stock)160Gx2WD7200RPM 8MB HD|Enermax460W|T:43C@N,50C@FL,MB 28C|3DMark2001 17087|3DMark2003 5134

dinkster9 · Oct 2, 2003

I think my head is going to explode

. Thanks for the info. Strange that the 9100 is being sold for 50 bucks and the 8500le is being sold for 65. The world of marketing is mindboggling. I fear much for the average consumer!

A7n8xDX2.0|B2500+@200x11=3200+(2.2ghz)(1.775v)Corsair512twinxpc3200llpt(2-2-2-6)R9700P(stock)160Gx2WD7200RPM 8MB HD|Enermax460W|T:43C@N,50C@FL,MB 28C|3DMark2001 17087|3DMark2003 5134

ufo_warviper · Oct 2, 2003

THe IGP9100 is a Pentium 4 Motherboard with an integrated graphics Solution equivalent to the AGP Radeon 9100/8500LE cards. It does have an oboard AGP port, so there should be no concern there. You can always pop in that Radeon 9700 later. I think going with the Radeon 9100 IGP would probably be a cheaper option for you. But going with the Barton 2500+ isn't a bad idea either.

Here's some rough figures:
Barton 2500+: $100
512 Megs DDR400 RAM: $90 - $120 depending on which brand/quality you get
Athlon XP Compatible Motherboard: $60 - $140 (Depending on which one you get. Obviously, the more expensive ones have better chipsets and stuff)
Radeon 9700 card: $230

Keep in mind once again that these are pretty rough figures also to provide Flexibility on the motherboard chocies, etc.

My OS features preemptive multitasking, a fully interactive command line, & support for 640K of RAM!

dinkster9 · Oct 10, 2003

you know the funny thing is? I finally decided that a 9100 would work fine for 50 bucks in the pci version, then guess what I found out.....

That the 9100 model only offers tv out (s video out) support on the AGP version, how annoying............

A7n8xDX2.0|B2500+@200x11=3200+(2.2ghz)(1.775v)Corsair512twinxpc3200llpt(2-2-2-6)R9700P(stock)160Gx2WD7200RPM 8MB HD|Enermax460W|T:43C@N,50C@FL,MB 28C|3DMark2001 17087|3DMark2003 5134

tombance · Oct 10, 2003

Is that a real problem? If so see if the 8500le offers TV out. TBH I think the 9100 was clocked a little lower than the 8500le so it didnt outperform the 9000/9200 by too much. That might explain the price difference. Also if its a true ATI 8500LE it will come with BGA RAM, making it a very good overclocker (Or was this only on the AGP version?).

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any good pci cards for gaming?

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