Question Anyone else slightly disappointed by the new Ryzen?

Dec 10, 2018
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Atm I'm slightly disappointed with how the new Ryzens are looking, I was hoping to get a 8/16 but I need to Get a 3800x for that, and there isn't much point in that, 429$. I can buy a 2700 for 200$ atm what is the point apart from the pcie 4.0
 
Yes, I'm a bit disappointed but would still build with any of them than Intel. price/performance is even better than that 1st or 2nd gen. I was going to swap my 2700x for projected 3700x but that would net me only few % of performance because I can run this system at 4.3GHz at ~1.4v and with this cooling that translates to no more than 63c. To swap would cost me 50 -100 bucks so I'm sticking with this one for now. 2700x is doing remarkable job anyway.
 
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Phaaze88

Estimable
Please wait for reviews at least? We don't really know how they perform against their Intel counterparts.
'Cause I sure as heck take those performance slides with a grain of salt...
Avoid the fever that is the early adopter. I'm seeing some across different forums already selling off their 9900k setups in anticipation... :pfff:
 
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InvalidError

Titan
Moderator
Please wait for reviews at least?
No need to wait for reviews to be disappointed with core-per-dollar stagnation. Assuming the best IPC and clock gains possible, we're still talking only 25-30% more performance per dollar than two years ago, which isn't particularly exciting either. Sure, this is better than Intel's 5-7%/year for most of the past eight years, but not something most people will find worth bothering with if they already have anything somewhat recent.

I thought I'd be upgrading to a 3600 myself, turned out it wasn't the CPU I was hoping for. Maybe I'll get a 3700X if it drops below $200 next year.
 

mitch074

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Mar 17, 2006
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No need to wait for reviews to be disappointed with core-per-dollar stagnation. Assuming the best IPC and clock gains possible, we're still talking only 25-30% more performance per dollar than two years ago, which isn't particularly exciting either. Sure, this is better than Intel's 5-7%/year for most of the past eight years, but not something most people will find worth bothering with if they already have anything somewhat recent.

I thought I'd be upgrading to a 3600 myself, turned out it wasn't the CPU I was hoping for. Maybe I'll get a 3700X if it drops below $200 next year.
The fact that you can actually upgrade the CPU alone without having to change your RAM nor motherboard is still nice - if one bought, say, a R5 1600 in 2017, that same person could plug a R7 3700X on the very same system without having to change anything (motherboard, PSU, RAM); that would be almost double the performance (IPC + frequency + extra cores) for $330... When was the last time you could do something like that in mid-range?
 

InvalidError

Titan
Moderator
The fact that you can actually upgrade the CPU alone without having to change your RAM nor motherboard is still nice
How many people ever bother upgrading the CPU without upgrading nearly everything else? I'd wager this figure is under 5% even among DIYers which are disproportionately over-represented on sites like THG and less than 1% globally. Nice in theory, seldom used in practice. The only time I upgraded the CPU in one of my PCs was to go from a 90MHz Pentium to a 233MHz Pentium MMX.

I'm still using an i5-3470 on the same H77M motherboard I bought it with. Unless AMD decides to support AM5 for 10 years, whatever CPU I upgrade to will almost certainly outlive its platform's useful life. Doubly so if performance-per-dollar only increases by 5-10%/year now that AMD has caught up with Intel.
 

mitch074

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How many people ever bother upgrading the CPU without upgrading nearly everything else? I'd wager this figure is under 5% even among DIYers which are disproportionately over-represented on sites like THG and less than 1% globally. Nice in theory, seldom used in practice. The only time I upgraded the CPU in one of my PCs was to go from a 90MHz Pentium to a 233MHz Pentium MMX.

I'm still using an i5-3470 on the same H77M motherboard I bought it with. Unless AMD decides to support AM5 for 10 years, whatever CPU I upgrade to will almost certainly outlive its platform's useful life. Doubly so if performance-per-dollar only increases by 5-10%/year now that AMD has caught up with Intel.
The thing is, in 2017 we'd get 6-core at 3.5 GHz for the same price we now get 8-cores at 4 GHz and a 15% IPC increase - meaning that performance went up 30% in 2 years, but everything remained the same - PCI Express 3.0 16x is still the main bus, DDR4 is still the main RAM format, the main Ethernet speed is still Gigabit, sound chips haven't changed and even USB barely moved !

In short, a B350 or X370 motherboard you bought in 2017 is still perfectly valid as a platform and spending $200 on Zen 2 will get you at least 30% more performance, or even double it if you had a R5 1600 and you're going for a 65W R7 3800 - yes, exactly like on that good old socket 7 motherboard, when you changed your Pentium MMX 166 for a K6-2 350.

Careful tough, Pentium 90 (Socket 5) could be plugged into socket 7 motherboards, but for most CPUs the contrary isn't true: Socket 7 had dual voltage (one for I/O, one for core) while Socket 5 didn't. And yes, I did appreciate at the time being able to plug my old Pentium 75 into a 430TX-based Shuttle mobo and overclock the snot out of it, and then later on put a Cyrix and a MMX CPU in it.
 

RobCrezz

Titan
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The fact that you can actually upgrade the CPU alone without having to change your RAM nor motherboard is still nice - if one bought, say, a R5 1600 in 2017, that same person could plug a R7 3700X on the very same system without having to change anything (motherboard, PSU, RAM); that would be almost double the performance (IPC + frequency + extra cores) for $330... When was the last time you could do something like that in mid-range?
Depends on the motherboard you bought. MSI said they wont run 3000 series on their first gen ryzen boards.

MSI dont seem to be able to make their mind up
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/btj9n0 View: https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/btj9n0/linus_talks_about_zen2_mobo_backward_compatibility/
 
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InvalidError

Titan
Moderator
The thing is, in 2017 we'd get 6-core at 3.5 GHz for the same price we now get 8-cores at 4 GHz and a 15% IPC increase - meaning that performance went up 30% in 2 years, but everything remained the same
Who upgrades for 30%? Very few. Based on sales stats from Mindfactory, most people aren't interested in spending much over $200 on AMD CPUs either. If AMD wants to sell Ryzen 3 to people who own first-gen, it needs to do better than that as less than double the performance for double the price isn't particularly enticing.

or even double it if you had a R5 1600 and you're going for a 65W R7 3800
At only 300MHz base and 100MHz boost higher, there is practically no daylight between the 3700X and 3800X to squeeze a 3800 non-X in-between. If you neuter the 3800X's XFR and budget it down to 65W to produce the 3800, the 3800 would end up overlapping too much with the 3700X.
 

spencer.cleaves2

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Jan 5, 2019
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Atm I'm slightly disappointed with how the new Ryzens are looking, I was hoping to get a 8/16 but I need to Get a 3800x for that, and there isn't much point in that, 429$. I can buy a 2700 for 200$ atm what is the point apart from the pcie 4.0
I'm not disappointed at all, I'm pretty happy with the release. I'll be upgrading in the near future for sure. I don't see any reason to be disappointed, we got what we expected.
 

Phaaze88

Estimable
Who upgrades for 30%? Very few. Based on sales stats from Mindfactory, most people aren't interested in spending much over $200 on AMD CPUs either. If AMD wants to sell Ryzen 3 to people who own first-gen, it needs to do better than that as less than double the performance for double the price isn't particularly enticing.


At only 300MHz base and 100MHz boost higher, there is practically no daylight between the 3700X and 3800X to squeeze a 3800 non-X in-between. If you neuter the 3800X's XFR and budget it down to 65W to produce the 3800, the 3800 would end up overlapping too much with the 3700X.
Reminds me of a certain other company(Nvidia) with their flagship products... 2080ti v 1080ti. Borderline 30% improvement for 70% price increase... and that's not even including the factory overclocked(Turing's OC headroom is even smaller than Pascal's) AIB models!
10 series owners - of the higher end models at least, didn't really need to 'upgrade'.

The Ryzen Hype Train was at it's 'biggest & fastest' when the 1000 series launched. Now, they appear to be running parallel with the Intel Express' incremental performance bump with Ryzen+, Ryzen 2, 2+, and so on...
Ryzen 2 isn't for folks on Ryzen/+, IMO. There's not much to be gained. Wait some more for Ryzen 3.
The Train has slowed down, and dropped off some cargo.
 

knickle

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Jan 25, 2008
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Atm I'm slightly disappointed with how the new Ryzens are looking, I was hoping to get a 8/16 but I need to Get a 3800x for that, and there isn't much point in that, 429$. I can buy a 2700 for 200$ atm what is the point apart from the pcie 4.0
Why do you "need" to get a 3800x for 8/16? The 3700x is also 8/16, and only 100Mhz slower.
 

drivinfast247

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May 29, 2018
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Reminds me of a certain other company(Nvidia) with their flagship products... 2080ti v 1080ti. Borderline 30% improvement for 70% price increase... and that's not even including the factory overclocked(Turing's OC headroom is even smaller than Pascal's) AIB models!
10 series owners - of the higher end models at least, didn't really need to 'upgrade'.

The Ryzen Hype Train was at it's 'biggest & fastest' when the 1000 series launched. Now, they appear to be running parallel with the Intel Express' incremental performance bump with Ryzen+, Ryzen 2, 2+, and so on...
Ryzen 2 isn't for folks on Ryzen/+, IMO. There's not much to be gained. Wait some more for Ryzen 3.
The Train has slowed down, and dropped off some cargo.
Unlike Nvidia/Intel, these performance gains came with minimal cost increase. So there's that. I'll be replacing my 2700x with a 3800x or 3900x.
 
I'll wait to see if XFR can push the clocks reliably to 4Ghz+ all the time (specially the 3700X), as the 2700X is a beast in that regard and works flawlessly pushing all its available thermal headroom when power delivery is no problem.

Other than that, I did miss the 16c mainstream monster, but I guess AMD thought about it and will keep it until they can upgrade ThreadRipper's platform accordingly and have a not-so-unknown ace up its sleeve.

I was expecting high prices as well, but I also agree the 3800X is steep, unnecessarily, all things considered. I guess cheaping out too much wasn't wise or something? I don't know.

Cheers!
 

InvalidError

Titan
Moderator
Other than that, I did miss the 16c mainstream monster, but I guess AMD thought about it and will keep it until they can upgrade ThreadRipper's platform accordingly and have a not-so-unknown ace up its sleeve.
The lack of 16C32T announcement probably has more to do with Intel having nothing to pitch against the 3900X already. Let Intel launch its 10C20T Coffee Lake Re-Refresh, then decide how much the 3950XXX (AMD is running out of numbers here due to branding the 3750X as 3800X and 3800X as 3900X, got to make it up some other way) should be priced at and update the rest of its lineup's pricing accordingly. Wouldn't be surprised if we saw AMD slashing existing 3rd-gen prices by $50-100 when that happens.
 
The lack of 16C32T announcement probably has more to do with Intel having nothing to pitch against the 3900X already. Let Intel launch its 10C20T Coffee Lake Re-Refresh, then decide how much the 3950XXX (AMD is running out of numbers here due to branding the 3750X as 3800X and 3800X as 3900X, got to make it up some other way) should be priced at and update the rest of its lineup's pricing accordingly. Wouldn't be surprised if we saw AMD slashing existing 3rd-gen prices by $50-100 when that happens.
Yeah, that's what I meant by "not-so-unknown ace up its sleeve".

But I'd like AMD to bring the price of the 3800X down to ~$250 and I'll update xD

Cheers!
 

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