Review Apple 16-inch MacBook Pro (Late 2023) Review: M3 Max Domination

[g-unit1111]

Right, I probably wouldn't get Alienware myself either. However, for someone looking for 'street cred' brand name recognition on their PC for whatever reason, most average people know what Alienware is vs the others. A lot of that is because of this guy :

Ha ha ha ha... Sheldon Cooper FTW!

 

[sundragon]

For someone like me who's been using PCs since the DOS / 486 days, I have found the current Apple operating systems to be extremely irritating to use. Like no, I don't want to sync everything with iTunes. I'm used to Android, where I can just copy stuff to my phone or to my PC and go.

The new MacBook looks nice, especially the M3 CPU, and I'd definitely use one. But I'll always be PC first and foremost.

When was the last time you used Mac OS? The sync with iTunes hasn't been a thing for a few years now. I have both Windows 11 and MacOS and I prefer Mac OS integration and how things are all well organized vs the legacy mess that is Windows. To each their own but you may wanna try it again if that was the last thing you remember that bothered you, a lot has changed.

I don't want to sync everything with iTunes

 

[sundragon]

It's because Apple isn't using an OEM PC or even Tech company business model, they are using the business model adopted by luxury brands like Gucci, Louis Vuitton, Channel, Rolex and such. Market a high quality product as a luxury status symbol, then charge obscene prices for the privilege of owning that status symbol. All Apple products, including their Mac Personal Computers, have ridiculous profit margins built in. They then push the concept that to join the cool kids club, you have to buy their latest product. If you don't keep up then you'll be kicked out of that cool kids club.

Basically Apple doesn't compete on price or performance, they compete on perceived exclusivity and brand status. The members of that exclusive group absolutely love to proclaim membership and how great it is, which is why I mock them incessantly. We can talk the merits of tech all day and be fine, but "my logo is better then your logo" is a ridiculous position.

Eh... Nope. As someone who's got both Windows 11 and MacOS - I can tell you having everything integrated and an OS based on *nix is a nicer experience than the Windows 11 box. The whole logic behind your comment - The Mac bested the Dell (that costs the same) in virtually every benchmark. I bought my M1 Pro for $2400 and in some of the benchmarks it's still beating that *current* Dell. I'm seeing all the comments on here from people who've not bought nor used a Mac in a while. Again, I'm using both OSs and hardware currently. When the M1 came out, the competition from intel (at the same price) was awful, power hungry, and arguably slower on most tests.
Now I wait for all the hate comments from armchair experts on Tom's that haven't bought or owned a Mac in years 😛🤣

 

[g-unit1111]

When was the last time you used Mac OS? The sync with iTunes hasn't been a thing for a few years now. I have both Windows 11 and MacOS and I prefer Mac OS integration and how things are all well organized vs the legacy mess that is Windows. To each their own but you may wanna try it again if that was the last thing you remember that bothered you, a lot has changed.

I own a current model iPad (2022) that I use daily. It's a great device for what I bought it for, but I still think Apple's filing system could use a lot of improvement.

 

[thestryker]

I have both Windows 11 and MacOS and I prefer Mac OS integration and how things are all well organized vs the legacy mess that is Windows.

I haven't used Win11 much nor MacOS in years, but I'd love for you to explain this one because from my experience they're pretty much the same. They're just operating systems and really should have minimal impact in any day to day operation.

The whole logic behind your comment - The Mac bested the Dell (that costs the same) in virtually every benchmark.

The Mac you're referring to here is the M1 version I'm assuming, and that's the Max which started at $3500 the Dell is $2800 and has a 4070...

Don't get me wrong I think the M line of SoCs are fantastic pieces of tech, but they aren't without their disadvantages.

 

[bit_user]

A lot of that is because of this guy :

It amuses me that the actor who plays Sheldon rarely had any idea what his lines in the script even mean. I guess that's good acting...

Anyway, the only full episode I think I ever saw was the pilot, when the series first premiered on Youtube.

 

[bit_user]

I think Apple is urging reviewers to review the MAX first because the PRO sux and they know it. I think most people who are on M1 Pro/Max or M2 Pro/Max looking at upgrading to M3 Pro can just skip it. As a dev, I need more CPU cores not GPU cores.

Plus, they downgraded the Pro from 256-bit to 192-bit memory between M2 Pro and M3 Pro, right? Luckliy, the Max is still 512-bit.

 

[bit_user]

I wish the hardware were more open rather than being outright hostile to alternate operating systems,

Eh, it's not as bad as it could be. Apple could slam shut the door to ever booting anything but official MacOS images, but they didn't. Furthermore, it seems like the Asahi Linux folks are getting a little backchannel info, on certain things.

That said, Asahi is still pretty rough around the edges and doesn't even do basic things, like properly scheduling the P & E cores, not to mention the rather primitive state of its GPU support. It's enough to put me off using it for anything serious, were I so inclined.

 

[snemarch]

Eh, it's not as bad as it could be. Apple could slam shut the door to ever booting anything but official MacOS images, but they didn't. Furthermore, it seems like the Asahi Linux folks are getting a little backchannel info, on certain things.

That said, Asahi is still pretty rough around the edges and doesn't even do basic things, like properly scheduling the P & E cores, not to mention the rather primitive state of its GPU support. It's enough to put me off using it for anything serious, were I so inclined.

Yeah, at least they're not blocking the ability to boot other images, nor sending out cease & desist letters – but IMHO there ought to be laws requiring hardware makers to provide all necessary information to interface with (all parts of) their hardware.
I do realise that it's a bit of a pipe dream, and would be hard to implement in practice. E.g. doing stuff beyond basic unaccelerated framebuffer access with a GPU, you need more or less a mini-OS of itself these days, possibly with a bunch of proprietary information/algorithms to have anything near optimal performance.

I'm not a everything-must-be-100%-open zealot, I find binary firmware blobs to be an acceptable compromise (though I do believe a stinky one) – but enough details should be documented that it's feasible, without reverse engineering, to make a 3rd-party OS run on a given piece of hardware, and utilise the full set of capabilities.

🎶 You may say I'm a dreamer; but I'm not the only one 🎶 😉

 

[palladin9479]

I haven't used Win11 much nor MacOS in years, but I'd love for you to explain this one because from my experience they're pretty much the same. They're just operating systems and really should have minimal impact in any day to day operation.

The Mac you're referring to here is the M1 version I'm assuming, and that's the Max which started at $3500 the Dell is $2800 and has a 4070...

Don't get me wrong I think the M line of SoCs are fantastic pieces of tech, but they aren't without their disadvantages.

It doesn't matter, the fanclub loves their status symbols, just go talk to a BMW or Jeep driver what they think about BMW's and Jeeps. There is nothing wrong with luxury branding or the luxury marketing model, just needs to be called out for what it is.

It all comes down to who they are targeting and what they are selling.

Basically Apple doesn't compete on price or performance, they compete on perceived exclusivity and brand status.

Companies like Dell, HP, Sony, IBM are all selling value and treating Personal Computers as commodities. Apple on the other hand is selling status, being a member of a recognized brand and social group. When was the last time HP or Dell owners gathered together to talk about their HP and Dell Personal Computers, yet Apple owners always like to talk about their Apple PC's.

This model is epitomized in how Apple owners buy in that their Apple Personal Computers are somehow not Personal Computers. Just walk up to an Apple person and say "What do you think about your Apple PC". Watch as their face contorts and they try to do the mental gymnastics to explain how a Personal Computer is not a Personal Computer.

 

[shady28]

It's because Apple isn't using an OEM PC or even Tech company business model, they are using the business model adopted by luxury brands like Gucci, Louis Vuitton, Channel, Rolex and such. Market a high quality product as a luxury status symbol, then charge obscene prices for the privilege of owning that status symbol. All Apple products, including their Mac Personal Computers, have ridiculous profit margins built in. They then push the concept that to join the cool kids club, you have to buy their latest product. If you don't keep up then you'll be kicked out of that cool kids club.

Basically Apple doesn't compete on price or performance, they compete on perceived exclusivity and brand status. The members of that exclusive group absolutely love to proclaim membership and how great it is, which is why I mock them incessantly. We can talk the merits of tech all day and be fine, but "my logo is better then your logo" is a ridiculous position.

I don't think iPhones are like that anymore. Sure there's no low end iPhone, but they are decidedly mid range to upper-midrange, with the most expensive being ~$1000 vs ~$2000 for a top line Samsung or Pixel. iPhones have become pedestrian, nobody even cares what model you have.

I mostly see Mac users in this 'laptop as jewelry' group now.

In particular, I see a lot of Exec and VP types who wouldn't be caught dead with anything but a Mac. This despite their organizations being near 100% Windows centric, meaning everyone uses Office, SQL Server, Teams, Win Server, Visual Studio, etc. This makes a Mac entirely impractical for them, even causes issues with interoperability and compatibility, total waste of resources, yet they must have a Mac. That is totally a status symbol thing.

 

[thestryker]

Plus, they downgraded the Pro from 256-bit to 192-bit memory between M2 Pro and M3 Pro, right? Luckliy, the Max is still 512-bit.

There's two Max models one is 384-bit.

 

[palladin9479]

I don't think iPhones are like that anymore. Sure there's no low end iPhone, but they are decidedly mid range to upper-midrange, with the most expensive being ~$1000 vs ~$2000 for a top line Samsung or Pixel. iPhones have become pedestrian, nobody even cares what model you have.

Oh they exist.

24ct Gold iPhone 15 Pro Black Diamond Edition - Stuart Hughes

This very unique iPhone 15 Pro has an outer frame embellished in 24ct gold with detailed engraving and an Onyx button. Also the rear section is furnished with Carbon and Brown Crocodile leather with gold camera lens and hand engraved accents in 24ct gold giving this handset a more exclusive and...

stuarthughes.com

https://www.goldgenie.com/iphone-15-luxury/

https://leronza.com/product/new-luxury-rose-gold-diamond-ecstasy-iphone-14-pro-and-max/

Drake Bought a $400,000 iPhone Case, So He Can Never Upgrade Now

It's encrusted with diamonds.

www.wmagazine.com

There will never be a "low" or even "medium" tier iPhone, because Apple needs to protect it's brand image. They can't risk the prestigious Apple brand being associated with cheap, low end, or value orientated. Drake wouldn't commission a $400K diamond encrusted case for anything remotely associated with "cheap". It's for the cool kids, the in crowd, the elite, and you too can be part of that prestigious group by just buying into the Apple brand.

 

[sundragon]

I own a current model iPad (2022) that I use daily. It's a great device for what I bought it for, but I still think Apple's filing system could use a lot of improvement.

The iPad isn't Mac OS - they are very different as an iPad Owner. Again, I see a lot of comments on here from people who have zero direct experience.

 

[sundragon]

I haven't used Win11 much nor MacOS in years, but I'd love for you to explain this one because from my experience they're pretty much the same. They're just operating systems and really should have minimal impact in any day to day operation.

The Mac you're referring to here is the M1 version I'm assuming, and that's the Max which started at $3500 the Dell is $2800 and has a 4070...

Don't get me wrong I think the M line of SoCs are fantastic pieces of tech, but they aren't without their disadvantages.

No, the M1 Pro and I got it on sale that B&H was having at Xmas, BB and Micro Center had the same price as well. Again, people on here are commenting on stuff they've not directly experienced - A LOT has changed since you last purchase or even priced a Mac in the real world...

 

[sundragon]

I haven't used Win11 much nor MacOS in years, but I'd love for you to explain this one because from my experience they're pretty much the same. They're just operating systems and really should have minimal impact in any day to day operation.

Again, if you're commenting on "disadvantages" of Mac OS vs Windows and then you say:

I haven't used Win11 much nor MacOS in years,

Your commentary isn't applicable. Try both for a while, work with both for a while and then make that commentary as a ton has changed for both (mostly improvements).

I repeat, I love how so many commenters on here have zero current experience with MacOS or buying a Mac or owning one but feel the need to express an opinion...

I have both a Windows 11 (Most recent updates) machine and a current MacOS 14.1.1 .

Windows still has a ton of legacy workflows to adjust things that are illogical - One example: Simple adjusting settings for the trackpad is an adventure through the last 15 years of Windows UI, as you peel the layers to get deeper and eventually ending up in "System" that looks unchanged since Windows 7. Nothing like that exists on Mac OS. It's all in ONE place and not layered into obscurity.

 

[thestryker]

No, the M1 Pro and I got it on sale that B&H was having at Xmas, BB and Micro Center had the same price as well.

This review doesn't have a M1 Pro or any Pro SoCs just the Max...

Again, if you're commenting on "disadvantages" of Mac OS vs Windows and then you say:

I didn't say anything about any disadvantage of MacOS at all... just that operating systems are operating systems and shouldn't impact day to day usage.

Windows still has a ton of legacy workflows to adjust things that are illogical - One example: Simple adjusting settings for the trackpad is an adventure through the last 15 years of Windows UI, as you peel the layers to get deeper and eventually ending up in "System" that looks unchanged since Windows 7. Nothing like that exists on Mac OS. It's all in ONE place and not layered into obscurity.

So your example is something you can easily get to via settings -> Bluetooth & devices which is part of the modern UI? (I'm sure it probably also exists in legacy as well since MS has left all of that in there as far as I'm aware)

Seems like you just want to argue for the sake of arguing or have a chip on your shoulder regarding apple.

 

[NinoPino]

It's because Apple isn't using an OEM PC or even Tech company business model, they are using the business model adopted by luxury brands like Gucci, Louis Vuitton, Channel, Rolex and such. Market a high quality product as a luxury status symbol, then charge obscene prices for the privilege of owning that status symbol. All Apple products, including their Mac Personal Computers, have ridiculous profit margins built in. They then push the concept that to join the cool kids club, you have to buy their latest product. If you don't keep up then you'll be kicked out of that cool kids club.

Basically Apple doesn't compete on price or performance, they compete on perceived exclusivity and brand status. The members of that exclusive group absolutely love to proclaim membership and how great it is, which is why I mock them incessantly. We can talk the merits of tech all day and be fine, but "my logo is better then your logo" is a ridiculous position.

True only partially, Apple products also have a good quality and innovation.
Imho there are a lot of good reasons to buy Apple and a lot to not buy.

 

[palladin9479]

True only partially, Apple products also have a good quality and innovation.
Imho there are a lot of good reasons to buy Apple and a lot to not buy.

LMFAO, yes yes the fruit shaped logo lets your creative juices flow more freely and their square icons with rounded edges really enhance your productivity.

The wheel.
Reinvented.
One button.
Endless possibilities

 

[bit_user]

The wheel.
Reinvented.
One button.
Endless possibilities

No doubt. I blame Apple for the fact that even PC laptop trackpads are losing their physical buttons. I hate it. I'm forced to use a buttonless trackpad laptop at work, but I won't ever buy one for personal use.

 

[jongri]

I bought an Apple iMac 27-Inch 5K Retina in the fall of 2021 (the last 27-Inch iMac model sold with an Intel CPU). I upgraded & maxed out all hardware inside it (8TB SSD, 128 GB Memory, 16GB Nvidia GPU, Highest Core Intel 10th Gen CPU offered). Wound up costing $6999 from Apple.com in early September 2021. In April 2022 (7 months later) I checked the Apple Trade-in value on this $7000 27-Inch iMac 5K Retina & Apple only offered $700 to trade it in on any newer Apple products, ugh!
Don't get me wrong, I love this way overpriced iMac. It's a fantastic All-In-One Desktop but it's true upgrading hardware on Apple products, (especially the Mac's) be prepared to pay a ridiculous premium for any hardware upgrades.

 

[sundragon]

Seems like you just want to argue for the sake of arguing or have a chip on your shoulder regarding apple.

Pot meet Kettle 😉🤣