News Apple and Intel First to Adopt TSMC's 3nm Technology: Report

InvalidError

Titan
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Go home intel, stop wasting tsmc's capacity.
Looks like someone really enjoyed those $300+ 5600X and wanted the 6600X to be $400+. If you don't want AMD to price-gouge people, you need a competitive Intel to keep it in check just as much as you needed a competitive AMD to keep Intel's soaring prices and stagnant features in check only a few years ago.
 
Looks like someone really enjoyed those $300+ 5600X and wanted the 6600X to be $400+. If you don't want AMD to price-gouge people, you need a competitive Intel to keep it in check just as much as you needed a competitive AMD to keep Intel's soaring prices and stagnant features in check only a few years ago.
I read this more like Intel taking away capacity from TSMC's top nodes so AMD has not the edge on whatever they end up manufacturing there. Intel has the cash to pull shenanigans like these, so don't think Intel is doing it "for the sake of competition". Intel has proven time and time again they don't care about it, since it affects their bottom line.

Regards.
 

InvalidError

Titan
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Intel has proven time and time again they don't care about it, since it affects their bottom line.
Intel being four years late on its own manufacturing is affecting its bottom line too since it means it needs to use more silicon and power for any given amount of processing power and isn't going to have significantly improved manufacturing of its own for at least another two years.
 
Intel being four years late on its own manufacturing is affecting its bottom line too since it means it needs to use more silicon and power for any given amount of processing power and isn't going to have significantly improved manufacturing of its own for at least another two years.
It's not like they didn't have the option before. So your point is somewhat moot. Plus, they never anticipated it was going to be so bad, I'm sure. If they did, they would have tried to block Apple and AMD earlier. Because I'm thinking it's not just AMD they're trying to block here.

Let's see what products they produce there and decide then.

Regards.
 
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InvalidError

Titan
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It's not like they didn't have the option before. So your point is somewhat moot.
What option? At the time TSMC started volume production on 7nm, it was already backlogged by over a year, same with 5nm. If you want timely access to next-gen process, you have to commit early or you aren't getting anything through any time soon.
 

hannibal

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Well Intel can and do outproduce amd. And now it even outbuy amd in tsmc… good. Only Intel cpus in the future. That has to be good ;)
It just prove how much more money Intel has!
/s
 
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usiname

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Looks like someone really enjoyed those $300+ 5600X and wanted the 6600X to be $400+. If you don't want AMD to price-gouge people, you need a competitive Intel to keep it in check just as much as you needed a competitive AMD to keep Intel's soaring prices and stagnant features in check only a few years ago.
Looks like someone don't understand how the things work, now we have intel producing tons 14nm and TSMC strungling to produce enogth 7nm CPUs for amd. What will happend when we cut intel's factorys and everything is produced in TSMC? How removing intel's fab from the equation will make the situation better?
 
Looks like someone don't understand how the things work, now we have intel producing tons 14nm and TSMC strungling to produce enogth 7nm CPUs for amd. What will happend when we cut intel's factorys and everything is produced in TSMC? How removing intel's fab from the equation will make the situation better?
Intel is still selling everything that their 14nm fabs can produce, and the 3nm from tsmc would only be a very small fraction of that, it would hurt intel more than anybody else if they switched the production of all of their CPUs to tsmc.

The 3nm from tsmc has the same reason that intel already bought 7nm from tsmc, it's for making their new GPUs. Intel's CPUs will keep being 14nm and will switch to intel's 10nm next year...maybe, because 14nm still sells so well, they might want to stay with it for longer.
 

InvalidError

Titan
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Looks like someone don't understand how the things work, now we have intel producing tons 14nm and TSMC strungling to produce enogth 7nm CPUs for amd. What will happend when we cut intel's factorys and everything is produced in TSMC? How removing intel's fab from the equation will make the situation better?
While Intel may be shipping plenty of stuff on 14nm, it is pretty much tapped out on what it can do on that process - can't improve IPC without significantly increasing die size and larger cores require more power to hit the same or lower clock frequencies on top of being more expensive to make and yielding fewer usable dies per wafer.

Intel signing up for 3nm will have absolutely zero effect on AMD and Nvidia's ability to get stuff made on TSMC's 7nm and 5nm. Also, Intel's fabs aren't going away either with 3-4 new ones entering production in 2022-24 but Intel does need a stopgap for the 2-3 years needed to finish building or upgrading its own EUV fabs and dialing those in.

Intel's CPUs will keep being 14nm and will switch to intel's 10nm next year...maybe, because 14nm still sells so well, they might want to stay with it for longer.
The main reason for Intel sticking with 14nm for its CPU isn't so much "14nm still selling so well" as it is 10nm still not performing quite up to 14nm specs and not being worth scaling up.
 
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I read this more like Intel taking away capacity from TSMC's top nodes so AMD has not the edge on whatever they end up manufacturing there. Intel has the cash to pull shenanigans like these, so don't think Intel is doing it "for the sake of competition". Intel has proven time and time again they don't care about it, since it affects their bottom line.
So what, TSMC should just tell Intel to piss off? Maybe they should tell Apple to piss off too because Qualcomm won't be getting as much capacity.
 

usiname

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While Intel may be shipping plenty of stuff on 14nm, it is pretty much tapped out on what it can do on that process - can't improve IPC without significantly increasing die size and larger cores require more power to hit the same or lower clock frequencies on top of being more expensive to make and yielding fewer usable dies per wafer.

Intel signing up for 3nm will have absolutely zero effect on AMD and Nvidia's ability to get stuff made on TSMC's 7nm and 5nm. Also, Intel's fabs aren't going away either with 3-4 new ones entering production in 2022-24 but Intel does need a stopgap for the 2-3 years needed to finish building or upgrading its own EUV fabs and dialing those in.


The main reason for Intel sticking with 14nm for its CPU isn't so much "14nm still selling so well" as it is 10nm still not performing quite up to 14nm specs and not being worth scaling up.
If intel start to use TSMC, that mean they plan to leave their trash nodes for cheaper low end CPUs while using the TSMC for their high end. This also mean less silicon for everyone and mostly amd and much higher prices. when amd won't be competitive. Nobody need intel to take TSMCs silicon, they have enougth money and their income show how healty they are and instead to spend money in makeing better CPUs, better process or just to cut dwn the prices they will make the things even worse.
 
I read this more like Intel taking away capacity from TSMC's top nodes so AMD has not the edge on whatever they end up manufacturing there. Intel has the cash to pull shenanigans like these, so don't think Intel is doing it "for the sake of competition". Intel has proven time and time again they don't care about it, since it affects their bottom line.

Regards.
I looked at Intels Cash Reserves vs AMD. Basic on projections Intel will be losing by 2023 give or take if they can't get their crap in gear.
 
What confuses me about this? Laptop And Server?

Why not all server where their bread and butter is. This I do not understand. Server chips have a much higher margin.

Laptop chips are incremental improvements these days and the vast majority of laptop uses don't need bleeding edge. If they did, they would have DESKTOPS not laptops. Even my company where time = money, we use laptops for developers to do MASSIVE code compiles.
 

usiname

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What confuses me about this? Laptop And Server?

Why not all server where their bread and butter is. This I do not understand. Server chips have a much higher margin.

Laptop chips are incremental improvements these days and the vast majority of laptop uses don't need bleeding edge. If they did, they would have DESKTOPS not laptops. Even my company where time = money, we use laptops for developers to do MASSIVE code compiles.
Low yields, more silicon for apple also, but don't worry, this is the beginning, the beginning of the end for the customers
 

spongiemaster

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What option? At the time TSMC started volume production on 7nm, it was already backlogged by over a year, same with 5nm. If you want timely access to next-gen process, you have to commit early or you aren't getting anything through any time soon.
Yup. Remember this thread, where you said existing customers would get new capacity priority, and I said Intel would jump the queue because money talks? Looks like Intel jumped the queue.

https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/intel-fixes-7nm-meteor-lake-and-granite-rapids-coming-in-2023.3694907/#post-22261293

Uh, yea. That's why I said open capacity. TSMC is reportedly booked through the 2nd half of 2021 for 5nm and 7nm. From the article:

"the company will also release other lines of CPUs in 2023 that will use CPU cores with an as-yet-unspecified process node from TSMC. "

Intel is definitely not using TSMC's 7nm in 2023. It's likely that Intel will be bidding for TSMC's 3nm if it is on schedule. They have the funds to outbid every one, minus Apple, if they wanted to. Otherwise a more refined 5nm could be a possibility.
 
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It's hard to get excited about products wrought by the enterprise exploitation of forced labor (SLAVES). Like buying cotton in the 1860's from America!!!🤢
 

TheHughMan

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Turning a 3D printer into a fabrication semiconductor sounds very difficult and impossible at nm node. The more electronic engineering fabrication backs up to a decade the harder to resist. Tha avg. Person obviously not but are plenty of engineers who where positions are filled and were pushed out of the great for someone better will. Lots of tech were invented by groups of students and former employees in garages like HP.
 
The main reason for Intel sticking with 14nm for its CPU isn't so much "14nm still selling so well" as it is 10nm still not performing quite up to 14nm specs and not being worth scaling up.
What would those 14nm specs be? Reaching 300W without blowing up?
The 11900 is already weaker than the 10900 in lots of things so final performance for the user can't be what you mean.
Doesn't perform well enough for intel would once again be about 14nm selling too well for intel to switch to something less profitable.
If 10nm has a terribly bad yield then they would still release it if they had to, but they would only have to if 14nm wouldn't sell anymore.
If intel's 10nm has even a 10% worse yield (and they had as much fab space for 10nm as they have for 14nm) , intel would loose as much money on that alone as AMD makes in total...
 

everettfsargent

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So, Intel and Apple, the two corporations with the most revenues and profits, go to the front of the line because TSMC can charge them more then anyone else, including AMD. The difference between Apple and Intel being, Apple innovated their way to the top as they dumped IBM and then Intel, while Intel just dumped themselves in the face of the AMD onslaught.

It is just a matter of time before TSMC exceeds the revenues and profits of Apple and Intel (and AMD) combined. The true competition is between TSMC and Samsung, both as contract fabs to the starZ.
 
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everettfsargent

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It's hard to get excited about products wrought by the enterprise exploitation of forced labor (SLAVES). Like buying cotton in the 1860's from America!!!🤢
Certified so-called slave labor links to Taiwan (TSMC) and Samsung (South Korea) ASAP please. You know, slaves wearing bunny suits, being whipped, working in 40-50C temperatures, 100% humidity and with virtually no access to drinking water or food.
 

renz496

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Looks like someone don't understand how the things work, now we have intel producing tons 14nm and TSMC strungling to produce enogth 7nm CPUs for amd. What will happend when we cut intel's factorys and everything is produced in TSMC? How removing intel's fab from the equation will make the situation better?
Did we hear any news about intel will going to stop manufacturing their own cpu and go completely for TSMC? What intel did is to use TSMC 3nm and at the same time still using their own fab. This move most likely done so they can keep up with AMD advancement. The only thing that people are worry about this move will going to hurt AMD to get more capacity in the future. But that's how business is. Even right now intel is among TSMC top 10 customer.
 

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