News Apple Spent $1 Billion to Tape Out New M3 Processors: Analyst

[Admin]

Analyst discusses the intense capital investment required to develop Apple's M3 processor lineup.

Apple Spent $1 Billion to Tape Out New M3 Processors: Analyst : Read more

 

[NinoPino]

Really impressive for a 16 thread CPU, in particular considering we are not talking of a brand new CPU but of an evolution design.
It would be nice to have the same information on investments done from the competitors.

 

[ezst036]

And that right there is 1 billion reasons why the world still runs on x86.

 

[derekullo]

It's funny how the M3 Max has 2 less e-cores than the M3 Pro.

Guess that allows them to make a SuperMax Titanium later on if needed!

 

[watzupken]

Despite the cost for Apple, I don't think it is going to reverse the decline in Apple's Mac. The problem is that M1 was very popular back then because it was surprisingly good, very efficient and don't cost as much as an Intel variant. Fast forward to now, the SOC is mostly more powerful, but design and efficiency have stagnated. Price on the other hand seem to keep climbing. We should see if the M3 will reverse the decline in demand next 2 quarters.

 

[palladin9479]

It's ok, worst case scenario Apple puts a gold foil inlay on a model and sells it for 5K. There are always people willing to throw their money at the latest Gucci bag, I mean Apple product.

 

[skiwi44]

Despite the cost for Apple, I don't think it is going to reverse the decline in Apple's Mac. The problem is that M1 was very popular back then because it was surprisingly good, very efficient and don't cost as much as an Intel variant. Fast forward to now, the SOC is mostly more powerful, but design and efficiency have stagnated. Price on the other hand seem to keep climbing. We should see if the M3 will reverse the decline in demand next 2 quarters.

The issue, as you attest, is that the M1 is still entirely relevant and persuasive for a unique price/performance envelope. I could not believe how much better my M1Pro was than my MBP i9. That, and the MBP package hasn’t changed and has all the combination of features still needed for a modern workload. So, I’m in no rush to upgrade - as I’d guess are most M1 owners.

 

[skiwi44]

It's ok, worst case scenario Apple puts a gold foil inlay on a model and sells it for 5K. There are always people willing to throw their money at the latest Gucci bag, I mean Apple product.

Says the guy, still in his bunker, who hasn’t priced a premium Dell or HP laptop recently……

haters gotta hate….

 

[ezst036]

Despite the cost for Apple, I don't think it is going to reverse the decline in Apple's Mac. The problem is that M1 was very popular back then because it was surprisingly good, very efficient and don't cost as much as an Intel variant. Fast forward to now, the SOC is mostly more powerful, but design and efficiency have stagnated. Price on the other hand seem to keep climbing. We should see if the M3 will reverse the decline in demand next 2 quarters.

Decline?

Apple had over 16% market share prior to the introduction of the M1 toward the end of 2020. As of now its only a little above 20%.

Desktop Operating System Market Share Worldwide | Statcounter Global Stats

This graph shows the market share of desktop operating systems worldwide based on over 5 billion monthly page views.

gs.statcounter.com

4% is the total "popularity" difference that changed from then to today.

 

[ThomasKinsley]

I speak as a tech consumer and not an expert, but it appears that Apple is spreading its talent thin, trying to design iPhone chips and M-series chips simultaneously. It's probably easier for a company like Intel, Qualcomm, or AMD whose business is nothing but designing chips. It doesn't help that other companies managed to poach Apple's talent, including some of the original designers of the M1 chip.

The Strained Relationship Between Apple and Qualcomm

Like a game of chess, Apple and Qualcomm continue making moves against each another.

interestingengineering.com

 

[skiwi44]

I speak as a tech consumer and not an expert, but it appears that Apple is spreading its talent thin, trying to design iPhone chips and M-series chips simultaneously. It's probably easier for a company like Intel, Qualcomm, or AMD whose business is nothing but designing chips. It doesn't help that other companies managed to poach Apple's talent, including some of the original designers of the M1 chip.

The Strained Relationship Between Apple and Qualcomm

Like a game of chess, Apple and Qualcomm continue making moves against each another.

interestingengineering.com

Not at all. The ISA is ARM for all the designs - so the investment in design spreads across the ecosystem. The key was of course whether Apple could make the Mac work on an ARM ISA - and the results speaks for itself. My desktop is a 2021 i7 iMac w/128GB and my M1Pro blows it out of the water in image processing while unplugged.

Bottom line - Apple is an immensely profitable company (100billion ISD profit last year) with huge amounts of money to invest in anything it wants to. The key question is whether those investments have provided a return to shareholders - and with the "M" chips, the answer is unequivocally "Yes".

 

[spongiemaster]

Decline?

Apple had over 16% market share prior to the introduction of the M1 toward the end of 2020. As of now its only a little above 20%.

Desktop Operating System Market Share Worldwide | Statcounter Global Stats

This graph shows the market share of desktop operating systems worldwide based on over 5 billion monthly page views.

gs.statcounter.com

Global PC sales have plummeted - and Apple is one of the biggest losers

HP was the only firm in the top five to see a year-on-year increase, though only by 6.4%. By contrast, Apple saw the largest decline of 23.1%.

 

[spongiemaster]

Not at all. The ISA is ARM for all the designs - so the investment in design spreads across the ecosystem. The key was of course whether Apple could make the Mac work on an ARM ISA - and the results speaks for itself. My desktop is a 2021 i7 iMac w/128GB and my M1Pro blows it out of the water in image processing while unplugged.

So Apple's at the time brand new CPU built on TSMC's world leading 5nm node and tuned specifically for frequently used applications like image processing beat Intel's last 14 nm CPU base on an architecture released in 2015. That's not nearly the accomplishment you seem to want it to be.

Glad your Apple stock is doing well.

 

[adamXpeter]

Apple had over 16% market share prior to the introduction of the M1 toward the end of 2020. As of now its only a little above 20%.

And they had 15.33% at the end of 2021, 14.66% at the end of 2022, so what is your point?

 

[Alvar "Miles" Udell]

In fact, with 92 billion MOSFETs inside, the M3 Max is the most complex single-die processor released to date (though, based on what we know about some of the upcoming AI processors, not for long).

Did you forget about the Cerebras 2?

Cerebras Second-Gen Wafer Scale Chip: 2.6 Trillion 7nm Transistors, 850,000 Cores, 15kW of Power

The world's largest chip

www.tomshardware.com

 

[skiwi44]

So Apple's at the time brand new CPU built on TSMC's world leading 5nm node and tuned specifically for frequently used applications like image processing beat Intel's last 14 nm CPU base on an architecture released in 2015. That's not nearly the accomplishment you seem to want it to be.

Glad your Apple stock is doing well.

Ummmm - you missing a little thing, namely "why was Intel on a 14mm node"?

Shame about your intel stock.....

 

[skiwi44]

Global PC sales have plummeted - and Apple is one of the biggest losers

Market share and market volume are quite different things - let alone any direct correlation to profit.

Per IDC in July Apple was, alone in the market, growing share and volume, (driven no doubt by the M-chip "flush"), now they are declining volume. Note that Gartner says the global market volume declined 9% this year. So much better to be increasing your market share than selling more PC's into a declining market. And we also know that the global PC market is "conditioned" by Windows in the Win10/11 switch which will give the traditional vendors reasonable upside of rate next couple of years....

 

[spongiemaster]

Ummmm - you missing a little thing, namely "why was Intel on a 14mm node"?

Shame about your intel stock.....

I have no idea what you're reading. Why would you think someone who just said a company had an outdated uncompetitive product owns their stock? That's just stupid.

 

[spongiemaster]

Market share and market volume are quite different things - let alone any direct correlation to profit.

Per IDC in July Apple was, alone in the market, growing share and volume, (driven no doubt by the M-chip "flush"), now they are declining volume. Note that Gartner says the global market volume declined 9% this year. So much better to be increasing your market share than selling more PC's into a declining market. And we also know that the global PC market is "conditioned" by Windows in the Win10/11 switch which will give the traditional vendors reasonable upside of rate next couple of years....

There is no way to spin a 23% decline in YOY sales as a positive. In the last year, Apple had the largest drop in sales among the top 5 PC makers and gained market share? That's some interesting math.

 

[skiwi44]

There is no way to spin a 23% decline in YOY sales as a positive. In the last year, Apple had the largest drop in sales among the top 5 PC makers and gained market share? That's some interesting math.

Sigh - try not to let your bias get in the way...

Some facts:
1) the previous YoY quarter was a blockbuster for Apple (release of M-series in volume), so the comparator is poor
2) The overall market declined by 7.6%
3) Dell , Asus and Lenovo also declined, although not as much as Apple
4) These are shipments. As you see in Smartphones, Apple couldn't care less about shipments, they focus on margin, where they easily lead the industry.
5) Apple's margin (45.2%) increased in their latest results, as did their EPS by 13%

Move on. Please.....

 

[skiwi44]

I have no idea what you're reading. Why would you think someone who just said a company had an outdated uncompetitive product owns their stock? That's just stupid.

You miss a lot of stuff, don't you?

You said "So Apple's at the time brand new CPU built on TSMC's world leading 5nm node and tuned specifically for frequently used applications like image processing beat Intel's last 14 nm CPU base on an architecture released in 2015. That's not nearly the accomplishment you seem to want it to be."

You were casting shade on a monumental achievement i.e. for a company to come out with a product with a power/efficiency equation never seen before, in its first iteration. Something that the market leader, Intel, had not done in 12 previous generations of their leading product. I could give you a link to Anandtech's article on the M1 implementation, but you wouldn't read it...

Now, I'm sure you you think you could have done better. And I'm equally sure that you usually do. But maybe, just maybe, learn to give credit where it is due.

You'd be a better person for it...

 

[spongiemaster]

Sigh - try not to let your bias get in the way...

Some facts:
1) the previous YoY quarter was a blockbuster for Apple (release of M-series in volume), so the comparator is poor
2) The overall market declined by 7.6%
3) Dell , Asus and Lenovo also declined, although not as much as Apple
4) These are shipments. As you see in Smartphones, Apple couldn't care less about shipments, they focus on margin, where they easily lead the industry.
5) Apple's margin (45.2%) increased in their latest results, as did their EPS by 13%

Move on. Please.....

Just wow. Pretty spectacular opening statement from the only paid shill in this thread. Try heeding your own advice.

I need to amend my previous statement that you can't put positive spin on a 23% YOY decline. You can if you just lie and misrepresent financial numbers like you did.

Straight from Apple's mouth.

Apple reports fourth quarter results

Apple today announced financial results for its fiscal 2023 fourth quarter ended September 30, 2023.

www.apple.com

"Today Apple is pleased to report a September quarter revenue record for iPhone and an all-time revenue record in Services."

Not a single mention of desktop sales anywhere in the press briefing. Apple doesn't break down the individual categories, but they do separate product sales and services. Product sales were down YOY by about 6%, while services were up 9%. Product margins were flat at about 36.5%. Services margins went up about 3% to about 71%.

So Apple saw a decrease in sales for lower margins product, which includes desktops and a big increase in sales for the extremely high margin services. I wonder where that overall margin increase came from?

Here's a hint. It didn't come from their desktop sales. You're just lying through your teeth. Done with this thread.

 

[skiwi44]

Just wow. Pretty spectacular opening statement from the only paid shill in this thread. Try heeding your own advice.

I need to amend my previous statement that you can't put positive spin on a 23% YOY decline. You can if you just lie and misrepresent financial numbers like you did.

Straight from Apple's mouth.

Apple reports fourth quarter results

Apple today announced financial results for its fiscal 2023 fourth quarter ended September 30, 2023.

www.apple.com

"Today Apple is pleased to report a September quarter revenue record for iPhone and an all-time revenue record in Services."

Not a single mention of desktop sales anywhere in the press briefing. Apple doesn't break down the individual categories, but they do separate product sales and services. Product sales were down YOY by about 6%, while services were up 9%. Product margins were flat at about 36.5%. Services margins went up about 3% to about 71%.

So Apple saw a decrease in sales for lower margins product, which includes desktops and a big increase in sales for the extremely high margin services. I wonder where that overall margin increase came from?

Here's a hint. It didn't come from their desktop sales. You're just lying through your teeth. Done with this thread.

Tune in. I'm not talking on the basis of Apple's statement which obviously doesn't split out desktop units, but on the basis of IDC. The numbers came from the IDC 3rd quarterly report.