aquarium water pump is there a reason we don't use them?

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DavidM012

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https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hidom-Aquarium-Submersible-Tropical-AP-1000/dp/B00FG34YGM/ref=pd_vtph_199_bs_tr_t_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=E8G8BXHZR32PVBT9QQDR

I was thinking of just plopping one of these into a reservoir

I don't particularly need stuff that all fits into the chassis

the only thing I have noticed is the 600l/h flow where I've seen cpu block pumps that go at 15l/m

any technical reason why?

I'm not fussed about using an ac pump I want it on a seperate power line anyway (for simple testing), or in case of a variety of other little problems.

as it's my first wc loop.
 

DavidM012

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I understand he's talking about the water in the loop.

Get the return liquid below ambient? You mean the water coming off the rad. into the rez. rather than the water coming off the cpu into the rad?

Where does the condensation come from? I thought it was if the CPU is chilled the water in the air around the socket will precipitate?

'get the return liquid below ambient, before it hits the CPU.'

Yes I think that is what I am trying to do. The pump is in the rez. going to the cpu the cpu goes to the rad and the rad goes to the rez round and round it goes.

Or not necessarily below ambient. take out 5-10c.
 
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USAFRet

Titan
Moderator
You're throwing out a lot of items that are potentially 'below ambient'.
Bowl of ice water
Peltier
Ice can cooler

Get some section of the tubing below ambient, and you may well have condensation at that location.
Said condensation will drip all over.
 

Vellinious

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Dec 3, 2013
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If the coolant you're sending to your CPU block is below ambient temp, and the CPU is running hotter than ambient temps (thusly the CPU block will be hotter than ambient as well), then condensation will form on the block. Thus the need for insulation for sub-ambient cooling. You may be able to get away with it if you can control the temperature of the water to keep it just a few degrees c below ambient, AND, you can keep the humidity in the room really low.

Really, though....with the block you're going to be using, it's not going to cool efficiently enough to make it worth messing with.

Your hardware though. = )
 

DavidM012

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It won't be below ambient. But even if it does it's not beyond the power of reckoning to get insulation. Plus I have got the opportunity to test it first and tweak if necessary because it's an AC pump. Which means the entire rig will work if it's not connected to the pc. And I can test if it condenses just by using a hot plate to simulate the cpu.

Can't do much about the humidity as it's 60-70% oh yes there is that dehumidifier gadget but that's going into another ball park

Just remind me where the condensation is forming? Underneath the CPU socket where the pins are right? I thought condensation formed if warm air hits a cold surface. Rather than if cold air hits a warm surface. As you seem to be saying the cpu block is somewhat naff.

But there will also be air blowing up from the floor and also exhausted from the top. It will be cool but also turbulent inside the chassis. And if it's that big a problem, what about a doodad to actually warm the block to an even temp. so as to balance the equation?

What if you just blow a little bit of warm air over the block? Which would then be absorbed by the cooling loop.

Or if it's the top side of the block (which is acrylic) then, why not just have a touch of insulation on that? Since the thermal grease underneath between the cpu & heatpad will be hydrophobic.

 

USAFRet

Titan
Moderator
Condensation is liable to form on any part of the system that is below the local temp.

'Local temp' = in that specific cubic cm, if there is no moving air in that location.

Glass of ice water (or cold water) on the kitchen counter = condensation on the surface of the glass.
"Below local temp in that cubic cm".

And now you're talking about "blow a little bit of warm air over the block" or "a doodad to actually warm the block to an even temp"

It would seem counterproductive to attempt this frankencooling thing, but also purposely introduce warm air into the location.

A system such as you are proposing requires a LOT of experimentation. There is no "Do A, B, C and it always works"
 

DavidM012

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Oh well I don't need warm air because the air inside the chassis will be turbulent. When I say warm I mean 22c instead of 15c. Or something.
Not 70c instead of 20c.

Anyway I'm not proposing it. I've ordered all the parts I need and I'm doing it. As the alternative in this price range is a £35 siedon with a 120mm rad, aluminuim & copper 1 or 2 turns if you're lucky and a dc pump and block which will get you 68c if you're overclocked.
 


The main reason is what you say you are not fussed about it running off of AC current and powered separately from your computer, which may seem problem free starting out powering everything individually but will get irritatingly old very fast!

Especially the first time you get in a hurry and forget to power up the pump, and trust me you will!

It's a lot better for it all to power up with one push of a button!

Plus the fact of the little irritating side effects of running a submerged water pump and it's environment effects of electromagnetics inside the water, so whatever you do, don't add a silver kill coil.

Ahh the wonders of an open reservoir collecting all the dust and trash from the air usually quickly requires some type of filter to keep the trash out of the circulation line, trust me been there done that.

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/275185-29-exploring-ambient-water-cooling

So what is your goal?

 

DavidM012

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Doesn't irritate me. lets see. All on the same 5 way. Shutdown windows, Click, press switch, off. I do not feel burdened. & it's got a lid. The only apeture in the reservoir is the screw top lid for filling. My goal is to see if it's any better than the heatsink I'm using. & The only way to really know that is to try it.
 


Doesn't irritate you because you haven't done it yet.

Of course it has a lid, but you will have to open it occasionally, and it will get dust from the air in it, which becomes a perfect critter breeding ground.

 

DavidM012

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I eventually built my cooling loop with a standard copper water block, a motorcycle transmission cooler for a radiator (roughly equivalent to a 120mm pc rad) and an aquarium pump. I used a 5l copper jardiniere for a reservoir and kept a lid on it to keep the dust out and got my overclock to 4.9ghz @ ddr3 2400 and it worked really well except in high summer when it was 35c outside I couldn't ventilate the heat.

The copper jardiniere wasn't really doing anything to help radiate any heat and I found switching it for a bucket of water made no difference.

I couldn't overclock past 4.7 ghz with any stability with air coolers, an a11 or the arctic freezer xtreme which was rated at 160w. I did some math and found an estimated 180w tdp when the fx 4350 is overclocked.

I decided not to try the drinks cooler because I got it all to work simply with the loop and it would be difficult to fit things together without a machine shop to make custom parts though it would be nice to somehow hook up some sort of refrigeration I don't think I'd do it easily without being able to calibrate temp sensors so things stay above ambient and avoid condensation.

Instead I think that it might be possible to store the heat in a large water bucket of maybe 125l which could go on the floor under my desk. 1 litre of coolant per watt of cpu heat at stock levels Having the flexibility of pvc pipes I can move the radiator up to 2m away and use a desk fan to blow on it. I used only tap water for coolant in the end because it's easier to replace that distilled, & though the cpu block does get gunked up after a few months and requires occasional maintenance, as it is not part of a pre-built loop it easily disassembles.

So I've ended up with a cooling loop that works and has more flexibility than an off the shelf product. Each part is modifiable and replaceable however it wasn't ever any more ultimate than any other cooler as it still didn't help in high summer, but it did help me get a higher overclock most of the time when the 160watt air coolers I had weren't good enough.

It's possible that a bigger radiator would improve the performance more but it's now reached a juncture of deciding whether to spend to upgrade the cooler or move to a lower tdp platform. Upgrading the core system would gain far more than a couple of hundred mhz on the overclock. For a cheap shot I could try a bigger bucket and that's probably the end of that road.

An all in one water cooler might have provided similar performance for the similar money but I was reading about the drawbacks of failed pumps and leaky radiators and while an air cooler does away with all those problems I still didn't know which one might top out the overclock but it's worked out ok as I can still use the loop I made for Ryzen when eventually I upgrade.

For the fx4350 overclock I needed a min. 180watts but probably more like 250watts of cooling to get stable it's possible something like a noctua nh-d15 would have done it but it might also be close to the edge, or the cpu might have limits, so in the absence of definitive info. it's a dilemma not worth spending any more on to find out where the bottleneck is. My estimate is 300watts of cooling would produce a comfortable overclock at 5ghz or maybe 5.1. In all probability with more cooling, the cpu I have could go higher as 4.9ghz @ ddr3 2400 is pulling a vCore of 1.416 so there is 0.9volts of room to hit the limit of 1.5, but Ryzen would far surpass improving the fx overclock in any case so I might as well save the money for a new cpu board and mem.