News Arduino Uno R4 Due in May With 32-Bit CPU, 16x the RAM and USB-C

[Admin]

One of the world's most popular microcontroller boards is getting a huge upgrade.

Arduino Uno R4 Due in May With 32-Bit CPU, 16x the RAM and USB-C : Read more

 

[bit_user]

Price and specs seem noncompetitive with the Raspberry Pi Pico. If you can find them in stock @ list price, the Pi Zero also seems a lot more compelling, unless it's ruled out by power constraints.

Not that I have hands-on experience with either Arduino or the Pico, but perhaps someone can enlighten me why a newcomer would opt for this instead of the Pi Pico. Are there compatibility issues between the Arduino ecosystem and the Pico?

Also, I'm reading the Pico's RP2040 is made on a 40 nm process node. Do we know what node the Uno R4's processor uses? It would also be useful to know how power consumption compares, and whether the Pico can be underclocked to match.

 

[thisisaname]

Looks more like a tease than a produce announcement.

Also remember power is measured in W(atts) not in V(olts). Being able to handle 24V instead of 20V does not mean it can handle more power, just it can take a voltage.

 

[Findecanor]

The thing with þe olde AVR was that it is electrically robust, with all pins 5V-tolerant.
Most ARM Cortex-M based MCUs run on 3.3V and must not get much higher voltage than that.

According to the RA4M1's datasheet, only nine of its GPIO pins are 5V-tolerant.
Nice upgrades otherwise though. The proper USB device (not just a programming interface) is a welcome addition.

 

[palladin9479]

So for those confused, this is something used for industrial and automotive computing, not home user stuff or "can it play crysis" stuff. As such performance isn't really something that's super relevant, instead compatibility, stability and how the board integrates with GPIO and existing platforms. The R4 having the same pinout and practically being a drop in replacement is huge, it means manufacturers don't need to redevelop or port existing firmware or software over to the new board. $25 USD is a minor concern when put in the context of a $24,000 USD car or $100,000 industrial machinery. The 24V power supply gives away it's purpose, 12/24V is standard in automotive and industrial applications, where as 3.3 and 5V are standard in consumer applications.

Comparing it to the Raspberry PI seems kinda off, different product for a different market segment.

 

[1_rick]

Price and specs seem noncompetitive with the Raspberry Pi Pico. If you can find them in stock @ list price, the Pi Zero also seems a lot more compelling, unless it's ruled out by power constraints.

Not that I have hands-on experience with either Arduino or the Pico, but perhaps someone can enlighten me why a newcomer would opt for this instead of the Pi Pico. Are there compatibility issues between the Arduino ecosystem and the Pico?

Also, I'm reading the Pico's RP2040 is made on a 40 nm process node. Do we know what node the Uno R4's processor uses? It would also be useful to know how power consumption compares, and whether the Pico can be underclocked to match.

Most of the GPIO pins can handle about 10-20 mA, and there's a 60mA max across all pins.

Then again, the Renesas is a Cortex M4 with a DSP and an FPU, which I don't think the RP2040 has. It also has a TRNG, which won't matter to everyone. I see from the datasheet it's got a 38x4 LCD controller as well.

 

[bit_user]

remember power is measured in W(atts) not in V(olts). Being able to handle 24V instead of 20V does not mean it can handle more power, just it can take a voltage.

I think the assumption is that it'll be able to handle at least the same amount of current. If so, then increasing voltage naturally translates into more power, since W = V * A.

 

[bit_user]

this is something used for industrial and automotive computing,

You you mean Arduino specifically is used for those applications? Or just that it fits in a class of platforms which are used for such purposes? Because I always thought Arduino was aimed more at hobbyists, tinkerers, and students. Automotive-grade means lots of additional certifications and robustness, which naturally translates into higher costs. For the most part, I'd assume it also means using bespoke PCBs and dust/vibration-resistant connectors, which would seem to rule out boards like this.

25 USD is a minor concern when put in the context of a $24,000 USD car or $100,000 industrial machinery.

Are you aware of such examples, or is that just a hypothetical?

The 24V power supply gives away it's purpose, 12/24V is standard in automotive and industrial applications,

And where did 20 V come from?

Comparing it to the Raspberry PI seems kinda off, different product for a different market segment.

The article compared it to the Pico. Are you saying Les Pounder is off the mark in doing so?

How would you characterize the intended application domain of the Pi Pico, then?

IMO, the Pi Zero comparison is also somewhat apt, as it has I2C as well. Therefore, can be used for some of the same things, while also providing a lot more compute power and memory, for cases where that's useful. Frankly, I'm at a loss as to why this board costs quite so much.

 

[bit_user]

Most of the GPIO pins can handle about 10-20 mA, and there's a 60mA max across all pins.

Which does? And how does it compare with the other?

the Renesas is a Cortex M4 with a DSP and an FPU, which I don't think the RP2040 has.

Ah, good point. The RP2040 has no FPU, but does claim to have an integer divider "peripheral".

It also has a TRNG, which won't matter to everyone.

By comparison, the RP2040 says the following, of its support for random number generation:

​

"If the system clocks are running from the XOSC and/or PLLs the ROSC can be used to generate random numbers. Simply enable the ROSC and read the RANDOMBIT register to get a 1-bit random number and read it n times to get an n-bit value. This does not meet the requirements of randomness for security systems because it can be compromised, but it may be useful in less critical applications."​

​

Source: https://datasheets.raspberrypi.com/rp2040/rp2040-datasheet.pdf​

​

 

[jp7189]

I'll just chime in and say Arduino is popular in the 3D printer space (and other such machines). That space is moving to power supplies with a single 24v rail, and various components are being updated to match. There are a few Pi machines but they are relatively uncommon.

I would also guess (hope) the R4 has enough processing power to run Delta style machines where previous Arduinos didn't do very well.

 

[edzieba]

So for those confused, this is something used for industrial and automotive computing, not home user stuff or "can it play crysis" stuff. As such performance isn't really something that's super relevant, instead compatibility, stability and how the board integrates with GPIO and existing platforms.

Arduinos are firmly in the hobbyist camp. You would not consider using them in an industrial environment, as they are wholly unsuitable (not sufficiently ruggedised or reliable). They serve the exact same niche as the RP2020.

The R4 having the same pinout and practically being a drop in replacement is huge, it means manufacturers don't need to redevelop or port existing firmware or software over to the new board. $25 USD is a minor concern when put in the context of a $24,000 USD car or $100,000 industrial machinery. The 24V power supply gives away it's purpose, 12/24V is standard in automotive and industrial applications, where as 3.3 and 5V are standard in consumer applications.

No car or industrial machine will be using an Arduino. It would be unlikely for them to even be used for prototyping, with devboards for actual industrial SoCs readily available for R&D on the actual platforms to be used- and more importantly the development environment to actually be used.

Comparing it to the Raspberry PI seems kinda off, different product for a different market segment.

Arduinos and RPis serve the same market segment: hobbyists. The RPi Compute Module is the closest to something that would find its way into the industrial sector, because the required carrier boards to host it can implement the protections required for that environment.

 

[gggplaya]

Price and specs seem noncompetitive with the Raspberry Pi Pico. If you can find them in stock @ list price, the Pi Zero also seems a lot more compelling, unless it's ruled out by power constraints.

Not that I have hands-on experience with either Arduino or the Pico, but perhaps someone can enlighten me why a newcomer would opt for this instead of the Pi Pico. Are there compatibility issues between the Arduino ecosystem and the Pico?

Also, I'm reading the Pico's RP2040 is made on a 40 nm process node. Do we know what node the Uno R4's processor uses? It would also be useful to know how power consumption compares, and whether the Pico can be underclocked to match.

It's apples to oranges. For the most part, running C code on the Raspberry pi is typically done on an OS such as linux or an RTOS installed on the pi. There's only 3 analog input on the PICO limited to 3.3v, though there is a decent amount of serial, i2c and digital I/O. I typically use my Raspberry pi's as Simulink hardware.

I use Arduino for most of my other work. There are better libraries, far more 5v ADC's, far more Digital I/O on the Mega and you're much closer to the microcontroller hardware when you code.

I use both depending on my needs, but I much prefer the Arduino. I can get tasks done quicker and more efficiently. Speed is still extremely fast with my tick speed being maybe <400uS for even my largest programs, which is much faster than most applications need.

 

[bit_user]

It's apples to oranges. For the most part, running C code on the Raspberry pi is typically done on an OS such as linux or an RTOS installed on the pi.

I trust you know the Pico cannot run Linux? It's a microcontroller-based platform, like Arduino.

There's only 3 analog input on the PICO

I'm reading that the Uno R4 board has 6. So, that's a decent increase, if you need it.

limited to 3.3v

This says:

"Supported input voltage 1.8–5.5V DC "​

you're much closer to the microcontroller hardware when you code.

Even the Pico?

 

[gggplaya]

I trust you know the Pico cannot run Linux? It's a microcontroller-based platform, like Arduino.

I didn't know that, I've never used the PICO. Only the full size PI. Good to know.

I'm reading that the Uno R4 board has 6. So, that's a decent increase, if you need it.

I'm going to stick with the Mega for the time being. I still need the 16 ADC. I don't pay for my boards, my company does so the extra price difference is negligible. Also they switch processors in the R4 and many of my CANbus code uses libraries for AVR processors. I'd have to change libraries and fix my syntax to make it work.

This says:

"Supported input voltage 1.8–5.5V DC "​

​

​

It uses a 3.3v reference from my understanding. So it may be able to take a 5v input, but anything above 3.3v would likely be saturated. Actually, that might be the power supply input voltage. 5v power supply would make sense, regulated down to 3.3v.

Even the Pico?

Yes I think so, MicroPython still uses wrapper modules to get down to low-level hardware.

When I learned in college, we programmed microcontrollers with assembly language. It doesn't get any closer to hardware than that, other than programming the individual bits yourself. Then I moved onto PIC microcontrollers where I did most of my work using C compilers and designing my own PCB's. Then when Arduino's became popular, I moved over to that platform thanks to all the various shields you can buy and the libraries that come with each shield. This significantly sped up my workflow because I could focus on what I'm actually trying to accomplish, rather than writing libraries to make something work.

 

[bit_user]

It uses a 3.3v reference from my understanding.

Okay, now that I'm looking at the datasheet, I can see you're right.

https://datasheets.raspberrypi.com/pico/pico-datasheet.pdf

(see section 4.3 Using the ADC)​

Yes I think so, MicroPython still uses wrapper modules to get down to low-level hardware.

It says it's also programmable in C.

When I learned in college, we programmed microcontrollers with assembly language.

I've written more than enough assembly language, in my life. Not a ton, but still more than enough. I'm good with C, though.

significantly sped up my workflow because I could focus on what I'm actually trying to accomplish, rather than writing libraries to make something work.

Indeed. Good libraries are important.

 

[palladin9479]

You you mean Arduino specifically is used for those applications? Or just that it fits in a class of platforms which are used for such purposes? Because I always thought Arduino was aimed more at hobbyists, tinkerers, and students. Automotive-grade means lots of additional certifications and robustness, which naturally translates into higher costs. For the most part, I'd assume it also means using bespoke PCBs and dust/vibration-resistant connectors, which would seem to rule out boards like this.

I loath multi quoting the same message, just quote it once and answer it as a block.

It's an entire category of programmable microcontrollers that are used in everything from CNC machines to industrial printers to fork lifts and cranes. Again the 24V DC is a dead giveaway as that, or it's bigger brother 48V are really common in that space with 12V being used in regular automotive. I mean, you can use it for a home light controller or some hobbyist projects, but there are probably better alternatives.

 

[bit_user]

I loath multi quoting the same message, just quote it once and answer it as a block.

It's an entire category of programmable microcontrollers that are used in everything from CNC machines to industrial printers to fork lifts and cranes. Again the 24V DC is a dead giveaway as that, or it's bigger brother 48V are really common in that space with 12V being used in regular automotive. I mean, you can use it for a home light controller or some hobbyist projects, but there are probably better alternatives.

I go to the trouble of breaking up the quote because that makes it clearer exactly which point I'm responding to. As a courtesy, I will single-quote my replies to you.

What the article said was the previous (and still current) version of the board was only 20 V, which would seem to flip your argument on its head and suggest that these weren't largely used in domains where 24 V is standard.

 

[gggplaya]

I loath multi quoting the same message, just quote it once and answer it as a block.

It's an entire category of programmable microcontrollers that are used in everything from CNC machines to industrial printers to fork lifts and cranes. Again the 24V DC is a dead giveaway as that, or it's bigger brother 48V are really common in that space with 12V being used in regular automotive. I mean, you can use it for a home light controller or some hobbyist projects, but there are probably better alternatives.

For commercial work, I use them for concept prototyping. To automate our concept with electric actuators, pressure sensors, hydraulic valves, motors etc..... It allows me to automate more rapidly to get our concept prototype working, with a nice display, buttons and closed loop control.

But I do think arduino's are aimed more at hobbyists, tinkerers and home inventors.