Are liberals just not getting it?

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JAYDEEJOHN

JAYDEEJOHN

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Aug 23, 2006
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Having gone thru another election, we saw the left rally, scream, create racism, sexism, move the goalposts as to who is rich and why they should pay more etc.

They took out after Wisconsin, saying what a bad governor it had, made him out as a racist of sorts, a typical republican who doesnt care about the little people, education, firefighters, police, unions....

The conservatives have been warning about the foolishness of unions when government was involved, as even FDR had more sense than todays ilk does regarding this.

Now, we will see how greedy this corporation, ummm government really is, as we watch Stockton go down in flames, and see people, you know, the little people, get their retirement funds cut, and this time itll be after the fact, because everyone believed the liberals, not before, like in Wisconsin, where a supposed rotten conservative searched and worked to create a doable retirement plan for the litlle people there.

We can shift to Connecticut, where we see a major shift in gun control, which wont effect whats happened there, or Colorado either.
Make em feel good until a lousy republican comes in to fix it, harming the little people all the way along Im sure the headlines will read, if unfortunately there does happen to be another mass shooting.
Also in Connecticut, we will now have our elderly parents, whove worked hard all their lives, and possibly part of your monies are involved as well, or will be, as convicts are to be side by side in nursing homes.
The state cant afford it, and if youre on the left, who likes prisons anyways?
Let the libs fix it

Thoughts?
 
I think that the conservatives (you being likely among them) demonize the liberals and drive themselves ever further to the right, and the liberals (myself among them, a gun-toting Democrat) demonize the conservatives and drive ourselves further to the left. The truth, as it always has been, is in the middle. We are abandoning it.

Be a libertarian. It's the closest thing to common sense that is left.
The liberals will make us into a socialist state. If not buying votes, then gaining popularity with more and more nannyism.
The conservatives will bring back serfdom, as in the great days of steel and railroads. If not buying votes, then gaining support among the wealthy by having them get more wealthy.
I'm not smart enough to suggest a middle path that would work, let alone get both sides to agree. But I can tell you that it would include compromises that _nobody_ really likes and lots and lots of pork. Pork is one of the lubricants that lets opposing interests work together, and we have a lot of opposing interests in Washington.
 
I dont believe abyone can be pushed one way or another unless the lack of sincere thought is involved.
The point being made here is, conservatives have warned time and again about the unions, its ties to the democratic party, buying votes, and the costs which cannot be sustained.
My example here is a city of 300,000 people and shrinking.
When you think of civil rights, you think of liberals, but most conservative republicans agree with freedoms and rights for all, and arrest those who would deny anyone those rights.
Not here with the unions/stockton/government scenario tho.
The dems/liberals actually went so far as to spend millions to discredit the Wisconsin governor, as did the unions there.
They sought him out to be a monster, a careless man only out for the rich/corporate and if you believe that far, serf/higher ups master.
The middle is the message of whats good and what isnt.

Now, should republicans listen to the left in regards to things unions bring?
Yes
But, that goes both ways, the liberals/left/progressive/dems should listen to the repubs regarding unions as well.
Just because you champion something doesnt mean you own it, and common knowledge runs: 2 heads are better than one, but when the obvious has happened, there can no longer be a champion when the ideal has failed, and the other side is muted and demonized.
 

The irony regarding civil rights is that the two greatest pieces of legislation promoting equality and civil rights were both pushed and passed by a majority of Republicans. The fact is, that since 1933 (the beginning of Progressive Era in American politics) Republicans have had a more positive record on civil rights than Democrats. In 26 major civil rights votes since 1933, Democrats opposed civil rights legislation over 80% of the votes. However, Republicans voted for the same civil rights legislation in over 96% of the votes.

In typically predictable and sheep-like fashion, the Democrats in concert with a sympathetic media continue the BIG LIE and lambaste Republicans as the party of ignorance, racism, and the rich white folk.

You will never hear a modern Democrat or Progressive admit the fact that Southern Democrats (hold-overs from the civil war States) were strongly opposed to any and all civil rights well up until the 1970's. You will never hear a modern Democrat or Progressive admit the fact that their party once wholly supported eugenics and rallied to pass population control laws for fear that minorities and other undesirables might live a fulfilled life.

Are liberals getting it? No, they do not and most likely never will. America was born in the spirit of classical Liberalism. Compare the revolution that Jefferson fought to the whimsy and will of those who would take from one to give to another under the guise of equality and social justice. Modern Democrats and Liberals have moved so far left of Jeffersonian Democracy that they are democrats and liberals in name only. They have moved so far left that they have had to completely debase America's founding principles in order to forceably make room for their ideology and discourse. Modern democrats and liberals like to claim they are "more evolved" but they haven't evolved, being evolved implies growth beyond a previous state or development greater than what once was. At best, democrats and liberals have progressed, incrementally moved forward. This progression can be found in the abandonment of classical liberalism, inability to legislate beyond whim and will, denial of personal responsibility, and embrace of big government. Modern democrats and liberals do not deserve the moniker of Liberal and do not deserve to lay claim Jeffersonian Democracy, they have only managed to progress into their own unique movement and ideology; they deserve the moniker of Progressive. And, Progressive should always be said with a negative connotation.
 
The unions power pales in comparison to some of the lobbyists in Washington. Consider the fact that most congressmen and women take these lobbyist jobs as a promotion because they earn a buttload more money in a less hostile environment. Oil and gas companies for example are the serious heavy hitters when its come to outside influence on politics
 



Your overlooking a very important factor in your comment. Leading up to 1960, democrats were the conservatives and republicans were the liberals. Abe lincoln for example was a republican and a liberal. Political ideology between the two parties has switched since the founding of our country.

For example, the south use to be heavily democrat. Now they are republican, but they have always been conservative.

 
I would say, some southerners were racist conservatives, while democrats were just racist.
If we divide the nation by color, race, creed etc, currently, who openly does this? Pushes legislation for this?
Im betting it isnt those southern racist types
To me, dividing this way isnt strategy or policy, but racism.

To me, having government unions backing you is unhealthy for the country.
I believe what FDR knew.
 
Not sure where you are getting this racism angle from based on previous statements but I will say that dividing the country by political ideology is more detrimental than any other division in my opinion.
 
No, because ideology can change.
When you label and make exceptions for people that cant change, this is much worse, as theyre trapped into what people want to give "them", and cant seperate from who they are.
Keep calling attention to something, eventually everyone will notice.
 
Who is to blame for this?Try the wars that we wasted in billions of dollars and the crooked banks we bailed out and the scams going on now with SS disability and welfare.Both parties are to blame.

 
Well, the banks are the banks, they do as they see fit, and many conservatives wanted them to go down, as examples, problem with that is, who gets reimbursed? And how much? And would there be a rush on the banks etc etc, but know this, conservatives would like to see some bankers burning in jail, more than there currently are.
This overpaying peoples retirement is whats gotten all these other countries in trouble.
If you worked for Stockton for 1 day, you were fully vested and would receive some amount of retirement.
This was/is a democrat run city, California is a democrat run state, and in Cali, youre guaranteed your retirement, so, if the state steps in, those who are retired may not get their retirements slashed, but who knows where the money will come from?
This is the democrat agenda at work here marv, simple as that, strong union support, inner city run by dems, giving the unions what they want, and not what they need.
This isnt the federal situation yet, but many towns, and soon states are going to go this route, and the people are going to suffer, and you know as well as I, this argument isnt something new, this has been around since the 50s, unions standing with the dems, repubs alone or with the owners and sometimes with the unions, but never for govermental unions.
I grew hearing this, as my grandfather was union head, had dinners with Ike and JFK etc etc.

The wars, thats something different.
We needed to kick their tails, and Iraq....who knows how it would have gone leaving that multi mass murderer Hussein in power.

Point here is, some people still think this is OK
You can give me more than the wars to go after the republicans about, like their supposed conservatism, when theyre out spending like crazy.
They both can point fingers and let it ride as sequestration hits, actually doing little, but still helping, where the republicans get no credit for cutting, and the dems looking like spend whores, they both win here, yet little is done.
When the vote came as to how to spend the money from your union dues on your favorite elected officials was turned down, and severely fought against by the unions themselves only proves theres corruption, and now we are seeing cities going bankrupt.
Many here went after the Wisconsin governor for what he was doing, and yet what he did will hopefully prevent whats happening all around this country, as what we see in Stockton.
This has huge implications
 
Heres another one.
Rutgers just fired their basketball coach for throwing basketballs at his players, and using very non PC language.
Meanwhile, at Columbia, the getaway driver for the weather underground, some of whom are associates with Mr BO, after serving 22 yeas from which there were 2 police and 1 armed guard killed, was hired by Columbia U.
Now, lets not act like these attitudes are good, the actions are good, when you can fire someone for using bad words and throwing basketballs, maybe the coaches penance should be, oh, 50 thousands dollars, since its OK to hire a murderer.
Sad fact is, the coach paid that 50 grand, and still got fired, after he had completed his requirements to stay on, yet under probation.

Now, if anyone hires a certain Scott Roeder to a major uni, they should be put away, all their earnings should be turned over to the truly needy.
Who is Scott Roeder?
Hes currently serving a life term for murdering Dr George Tiller in Wichita KS.

Heres another one.
Certain teachers and admin in the Atlanta area school distrist, some 170+, of which half that many have been indicted, have been accused of cheating on their students test scores.
Lets see, we have some wanting students to stomp on pictures of Jesus, some sending kids home for talking about bubble gu8ns, pyschs too, principals, college again, some sending kids home for eating a poptart into a shape of a gun, and now this, and there more, but hey, the schools and the agendas are A-OK.
Getting back to the teachers and their admins in Atlanta, they cheated on the test scores so the school districy would get more money, and ultimately they would as well.
The teachers/admins blame the tests, those required by law, you know, Obamacaresque, all government rules all type mandating which always works type rules?
Maybe the kids need to claim the same thing, we cant be having kids taking tests, we might find out they may end up smarter than all the above.

 


Agreed ideology can change, but this change is in name only as the principles of each party has remained relatively true to their original ideals. Also, to say that Republicans were "liberal" and Democrats were "conservative" ignores the history of each party since the early 1860's, thru the 1960's, up until today.

You state that the political ideology of the political parties has changed since this countries founding, which is true; but not necessarily in the way you might think. Prior to the Civil War, Republicans (Whigs) were the little guy farmer, pro-worker, anti-slavery, anti-establishment party. But you must understand that just because the Republicans were for the little guy, it does not mean they stood for expanding government, more regulations, or wealth redistribution like modern Progressive and Liberals.

After the Civil War, the Democratic South was decimated and the Republicans took control of business and government. Even then, the Republicans worked to live out original intent and Constitutional government.

After the Depression, the roles switched again and the Democrats again came in control, but this time with a significant difference; the Democrats moved away from their Classical Liberalism-Jeffersonian Democracy roots. If post-Depression (today's modern) Progressives and Democrats remained true to their Classical Liberalism roots, then they would truly be considered the conservatives of today, but they are not. If modern Progressives and Democrats remained true to their Classical Liberalism roots then your statement of the Republicans being "liberal" would be true. But it is not true because if Republicans were the "liberals" in the post-Depression era and into the 1960's then it would have been the Republicans who promoted and passed the New Deal, the Great Society, and New Freedom. But they weren't, those programs which greatly expanded the size, scope, and power of the centralized government over the States and the People were all born out of Progressive/Liberal (ie; Democrat) Administrations and Presidents; Wilson, Roosevelt, and Johnson. And, as we all understand, increasing the size and scope of the centralized government, social justice, increased regulations, and wealth redistribution are all tenets of the post-Depression/modern Progressive and Democrats ideology.

The fact is, since the Progressive movement took control over American politics in the early 1900's, the Classical Liberalism once owned by Democrats was co-opted and perverted to fit socialist and marxist ideology. Conversely, Republicans have been co-opted by big business and are for a expanded government for different reasons. Modern Republicans do not deserve the legacy of post-Civil War Republicanism and are no longer the party of the little guy and modern Republicans do not deserve the moniker of Conservative.


 
Everything is a fallacy.

I was driving into work today and thinking.. a recent meeting I was told, "You know we work for the government..." meaning I was proposing too much work to do, or actually work at all for that matter.

It struck me this morning.

People work the government. Not for the United States. The government has become an entity of itself, outside of the scope of the United States. They are two completely different entities.
 


A "government job" to a union man can mean one or two things; 1) a job done with the least amount of effort no matter how sloppy or shoddy the work is, and 2) a personal errand that is done on company time using company resources (like using the company pick up truck to haul away your neighbors old washer and drier to the Town recycling center).

Well, at that was the definition of a government job when I was in the union.

 
I work for the gov't. I am told that I am not a gov't worker. I work too hard, I have expectations, and I want people to make decisions. All key points that do not generally happen. I am constantly told to slow down and stop working so hard, we're here to maximize profit for our companies, not find solutions.
 
Whats funny is how the mindset expands, like putting more and more people on some welfare ( you can all it what you want) people start getting sucked into the system, but funniest of all is, people acting like once its gone, and youve worked too hard, there will never be another one heheheh
 
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