are werevermin canon?

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By werevermin I mean a person turn into a swarm of vermin of ~equal
mass, not someone who can turn into. for example, a giant cockroach. If
there is a published version, which sourcebook is it in? thanks in
advance.
 
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David Alex Lamb wrote:
> In article <1112549990.395198.66380@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
> <chenry.hen@gmail.com> wrote:
> >By werevermin I mean a person turn into a swarm of vermin of ~equal
> >mass, not someone who can turn into. for example, a giant cockroach.
If
>
> Too bad -- there's this classic novel by Kafka called
"Metamorphosis".
>

read it :) assumed it had already been done

> >there is a published version, which sourcebook is it in? thanks in
> >advance.
>
> 3) The 3.5 MM has swarms of several kinds. You could have a creature
turn
> into a swarm of similar hit dice.
> --

I guess I should have specified D&D. Cool - I did flip through MM and
didn't see the swarm thing, but I did peruse the lycanthrope template a
bit. A friend who wants to get back into DM'ing and I were kicking
around campaign world ideas and this one came up.
 
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In article <1112549990.395198.66380@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
<chenry.hen@gmail.com> wrote:
>By werevermin I mean a person turn into a swarm of vermin of ~equal
>mass, not someone who can turn into. for example, a giant cockroach. If

Too bad -- there's this classic novel by Kafka called "Metamorphosis".

>there is a published version, which sourcebook is it in? thanks in
>advance.

I don't know of a sourcebook, but here are a couple of near-misses.
1) Buffy the Vampire Slayer had an episode where one of the bad-guys (part of
a group of assassins) could dissolve into a mass of bugs. The RPG might
have given stats on the guy (but I haven't seen it, so am just guessing).
2) Shadowrun had insect shamans; I don't know if they could turn into bugs or
not.
3) The 3.5 MM has swarms of several kinds. You could have a creature turn
into a swarm of similar hit dice.
--
"Yo' ideas need to be thinked befo' they are say'd" - Ian Lamb, age 3.5
http://www.cs.queensu.ca/~dalamb/ qucis->cs to reply (it's a long story...)
 
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In article <1112638152.866636.136040@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
<chenry.hen@gmail.com> wrote:
>David Alex Lamb wrote:
>> 3) The 3.5 MM has swarms of several kinds. You could have a creature
>turn
>> into a swarm of similar hit dice.
>> --
>
>I guess I should have specified D&D. Cool - I did flip through MM and
>didn't see the swarm thing, but I did peruse the lycanthrope template a
>bit. A friend who wants to get back into DM'ing and I were kicking
>around campaign world ideas and this one came up.

I checked the SRD -- it's under Monsters S-whatever.
--
"Yo' ideas need to be thinked befo' they are say'd" - Ian Lamb, age 3.5
http://www.cs.queensu.ca/~dalamb/ qucis->cs to reply (it's a long story...)
 
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"David Alex Lamb" <dalamb@qucis.queensu.ca> wrote in message
news:d2rh0a$9le$1@knot.queensu.ca...
> In article <1112549990.395198.66380@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
> <chenry.hen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>By werevermin I mean a person turn into a swarm of vermin of ~equal
>>mass, not someone who can turn into. for example, a giant cockroach. If
>
> Too bad -- there's this classic novel by Kafka called "Metamorphosis".
>
>>there is a published version, which sourcebook is it in? thanks in
>>advance.
>
> I don't know of a sourcebook, but here are a couple of near-misses.
> 1) Buffy the Vampire Slayer had an episode where one of the bad-guys (part
> of
> a group of assassins) could dissolve into a mass of bugs. The RPG might
> have given stats on the guy (but I haven't seen it, so am just
> guessing).
> 2) Shadowrun had insect shamans; I don't know if they could turn into bugs
> or
> not.

No, they didn't morph into the Insect totem they called to for their power.
What they could do is make more spirits for the Totem in question by
'infesting' a host with a insect spirit. Depending on the degree of success
the diffence in appearance before and atfer could be startling.
Reference, Target: UCAS, SR][ ed

> 3) The 3.5 MM has swarms of several kinds. You could have a creature turn
> into a swarm of similar hit dice.
> --
> "Yo' ideas need to be thinked befo' they are say'd" - Ian Lamb, age 3.5
> http://www.cs.queensu.ca/~dalamb/ qucis->cs to reply (it's a long
> story...)
 
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David Alex Lamb wrote:
> In article <1112549990.395198.66380@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
> <chenry.hen@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>By werevermin I mean a person turn into a swarm of vermin of ~equal
>>mass, not someone who can turn into. for example, a giant cockroach. If
>
>
> Too bad -- there's this classic novel by Kafka called "Metamorphosis".
>
>
>>there is a published version, which sourcebook is it in? thanks in
>>advance.
>
>
> I don't know of a sourcebook, but here are a couple of near-misses.
> 1) Buffy the Vampire Slayer had an episode where one of the bad-guys (part of
> a group of assassins) could dissolve into a mass of bugs. The RPG might
> have given stats on the guy (but I haven't seen it, so am just guessing).
> 2) Shadowrun had insect shamans; I don't know if they could turn into bugs or
> not.
> 3) The 3.5 MM has swarms of several kinds. You could have a creature turn
> into a swarm of similar hit dice.

White Wolf's Werespiders can do this, although they aren't D&D. I seem
to remember at least one creature or item... I think it was a 2nd
Edition item in the Druid's Handbook that let the wearer turn into a
swarm of spiders.

Hmm... Wereswarm?

I guess you could apply the lycanthrope template (found in the regular
old Monster Manual 3.5) to a swarm instead of an animal and see where it
leads. Might work. Might even be cool.

Does a werespiderswarm rogue in swarm form gain flanking...?

- Ron ^*^
 
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chenry.hen@gmail.com wrote:

> David Alex Lamb wrote:
>
>>In article <1112549990.395198.66380@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
>> <chenry.hen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>By werevermin I mean a person turn into a swarm of vermin of ~equal
>>>mass, not someone who can turn into. for example, a giant cockroach.
>
> If
>
>>Too bad -- there's this classic novel by Kafka called
>
> "Metamorphosis".
>
>
> read it :) assumed it had already been done
>
>
>>>there is a published version, which sourcebook is it in? thanks in
>>>advance.
>>
>>3) The 3.5 MM has swarms of several kinds. You could have a creature
>
> turn
>
>> into a swarm of similar hit dice.
>>--
>
>
> I guess I should have specified D&D. Cool - I did flip through MM and
> didn't see the swarm thing, but I did peruse the lycanthrope template a
> bit. A friend who wants to get back into DM'ing and I were kicking
> around campaign world ideas and this one came up.

Swarms are in the MM, under "Swarm" I think. They are near the back end
of the book and possibly out of alphabetical order from the rest of the
monsters. They have their own "type" so you will need to think a bit
when applying the lycanthrope template, but I think it could be done and
it could be an interesting experiment.

- Ron ^*^
 
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chenry.hen@gmail.com wrote in news:1112549990.395198.66380
@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:

> By werevermin I mean a person turn into a swarm of vermin of ~equal
> mass, not someone who can turn into. for example, a giant cockroach. If
> there is a published version, which sourcebook is it in? thanks in
> advance.
>
>

Look in Savage Species and Book of Vile Darkness.
 
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looks like I need to acquire, or at least borrow, a few sources. I'm
sure I'll be posting back shortly with a stab at this. I still haven't
got a good grip on stats for new creatures yet, so I will definitely
need some feedback there.
 
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Sorry to piggyback; never saw the OP.

David Alex Lamb wrote:
> <chenry.hen@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > By werevermin I mean a person turn into a swarm of vermin
> > of ~equal mass, not someone who can turn into. for example,
> > a giant cockroach. If there is a published version, which
> > sourcebook is it in? thanks in advance.
<snip>
> 3) The 3.5 MM has swarms of several kinds. You could have a creature turn
> into a swarm of similar hit dice.

Libris Mortis (or maybe MM3, but I think LM) has a template, or
creature variant, I forget which, called "Swarmform", which does
this... But is for undead only (mummy into swarm of scarab beetles;
vampire into swarm of bats/rats, etc.). That said, it'd be a very
good starting point, I think.

--
Nik
- remove vermin from email address to reply.
 
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Here's a first pass. I'm not sure how to fill in the sort of generic
values (like abilities, skills, etc.) so I've left those blank. If
anyone wants to help fill in the details, I would be most appreciative.

--------

Werelocust, Human Form
Medium Humanoid
(Human, Shapechanger)
Hit Dice: 1d8+1 plus 6d8-6
Initiative: ?
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares)
Armor Class: 14 (+2 natural, +2 leather), touch 10, flat-footed, 14
Base Attack/Grapple: +5/?
Attack: Rapier +2 melee (1d6+1/18-20) or light crossbow +1 ranged
(1d8/19-20)
Full Attack: Rapier +2 melee (1d6+1/18-20) or light crossbow +1 ranges
(1d8/19-20)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., vermin traits, alternate form,
locust empathy, low-light vision, scent
Saves: ?
Abilities: ?
Skills: ?
Feats: Iron Will, ?
Environment: Temperate plains
Organization: Solitary, pair, brood (3-4)
Challenge Rating: ?
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: Alwyas neutral evil
Advancement: By character class
Level Adjustment: ?

Werelocust, Swarm Form
Diminuitive Vermin (Swarm)
(Human, Shapechanger)
Hit Dice: 1d8+1 plus 6d8-6
Initiative: ?
Speed: 10 ft. (2 squares), fly 30 ft. (poor)
Armor Class: 20 (+2 natural, +4 size, +4 Dex), touch 20, flat-footed 16
Base Attack/Grapple: +4/?
Attack: Swarm (2d6)
Full Attack: Swarm (2d6)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./0 ft.
Special Attacks: Curse of lycanthropy, Distraction
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., immune to weapon damage, swarm
traits, alternate form, locust empathy, damage reduction 10/silver,
low-light vision, scent
Saves: ?
Abilities: ?
Skills: ?
Feats: (same as human form)
Environment?: Temperate plains
Organization: Solitary, cloud (2-4 swarms)
Challenge Rating: ?
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: Always neutral evil
Advancement: By character class
Level Adjustment: ?

Werelocust, Hybrid Form
Medium Humanoid
(Human, Shapechanger)
Hit Dice: 1d8+1 plus 6d8-6
Initiative: ?
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares)
Armor Class: 16 (+2 natural, +4 Dex), touch 14, flat-footed 16
Base Attack/Grapple: +4/?
Attack: Claw ?
Full Attack: 2 claws ? and bite ?
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Curse of lycanthropy
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., immune to weapon damage, swarm
traits, alternate form, locust empathy, damage reduction 5/silver,
low-light vision, scent, half-damage from bludgeoning weapons
Saves: ?
Abilities: ?
Skills: ?
Feats: (same as human form)
Environment?: Temperate plains
Organization: (same as human form)
Challenge Rating: ?
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: Always neutral evil
Advancement: By character class
Level Adjustment: ?

This thin humanoid has a disturbingly blank stare, and it's cracked
skin seems to ripple and pulse as if alive.

A werelocust in humanoid form tens to be shorter than average and thin.
It's horsey face hold two large unblinking eyes.

Combat
Alternate Form (Su): A werelocust can assume a bipedal hybrid
form-which is actually a humanoid shell filled with an amorphous
swarm-or the form of a locust swarm.
Curse of Lycanthropy (Su): Any humanoid or giant hit by a werelocusts
swarm or bite attack in animal or hybrid form must succeed on a DC 15
Fortitude save or contract lycanthropy.
Locust Empathy (Ex): Communicate with locusts and monstrous locusts,
and a +4 racial bonus on Charisma-based checks against locusts and
monstrous locusts.
Swarm Traits: In swarm form, a werelocust has the following
vulnerabilities: lit torches swung as improvised weapons deal 1d3
points of fire damage, a weapon with a special ability such as flaming
or frost deals its full energy damage with each hit, even if the
weapon's normal damage can't affect the swarm, a lit lantern can be
used as a thrown weapon, dealing 1d4 points of fire damage to all
creatures in squares adjacent to where it breaks, the shape of the
swarm is malleable.
Distraction (Ex): Any living creature that begins its turn with a
locust swarm in its space must succeed on a DC 12 Fortitude save or be
nauseated for 1 round. The save DC is Constitution-based.
Skills: ?
Feats: ?
 
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Looks pretty cool at first glance. Someday I will monkey with this myself.

I'm still imagining what the stats for a swarm of cats would be.

- Ron ^*^


chenry.hen@gmail.com wrote:

> Here's a first pass. I'm not sure how to fill in the sort of generic
> values (like abilities, skills, etc.) so I've left those blank. If
> anyone wants to help fill in the details, I would be most appreciative.
>
> --------
>
> Werelocust, Human Form
> Medium Humanoid
> (Human, Shapechanger)
> Hit Dice: 1d8+1 plus 6d8-6
> Initiative: ?
> Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares)
> Armor Class: 14 (+2 natural, +2 leather), touch 10, flat-footed, 14
> Base Attack/Grapple: +5/?
> Attack: Rapier +2 melee (1d6+1/18-20) or light crossbow +1 ranged
> (1d8/19-20)
> Full Attack: Rapier +2 melee (1d6+1/18-20) or light crossbow +1 ranges
> (1d8/19-20)
> Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
> Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., vermin traits, alternate form,
> locust empathy, low-light vision, scent
> Saves: ?
> Abilities: ?
> Skills: ?
> Feats: Iron Will, ?
> Environment: Temperate plains
> Organization: Solitary, pair, brood (3-4)
> Challenge Rating: ?
> Treasure: Standard
> Alignment: Alwyas neutral evil
> Advancement: By character class
> Level Adjustment: ?
>
> Werelocust, Swarm Form
> Diminuitive Vermin (Swarm)
> (Human, Shapechanger)
> Hit Dice: 1d8+1 plus 6d8-6
> Initiative: ?
> Speed: 10 ft. (2 squares), fly 30 ft. (poor)
> Armor Class: 20 (+2 natural, +4 size, +4 Dex), touch 20, flat-footed 16
> Base Attack/Grapple: +4/?
> Attack: Swarm (2d6)
> Full Attack: Swarm (2d6)
> Space/Reach: 10 ft./0 ft.
> Special Attacks: Curse of lycanthropy, Distraction
> Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., immune to weapon damage, swarm
> traits, alternate form, locust empathy, damage reduction 10/silver,
> low-light vision, scent
> Saves: ?
> Abilities: ?
> Skills: ?
> Feats: (same as human form)
> Environment?: Temperate plains
> Organization: Solitary, cloud (2-4 swarms)
> Challenge Rating: ?
> Treasure: Standard
> Alignment: Always neutral evil
> Advancement: By character class
> Level Adjustment: ?
>
> Werelocust, Hybrid Form
> Medium Humanoid
> (Human, Shapechanger)
> Hit Dice: 1d8+1 plus 6d8-6
> Initiative: ?
> Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares)
> Armor Class: 16 (+2 natural, +4 Dex), touch 14, flat-footed 16
> Base Attack/Grapple: +4/?
> Attack: Claw ?
> Full Attack: 2 claws ? and bite ?
> Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
> Special Attacks: Curse of lycanthropy
> Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., immune to weapon damage, swarm
> traits, alternate form, locust empathy, damage reduction 5/silver,
> low-light vision, scent, half-damage from bludgeoning weapons
> Saves: ?
> Abilities: ?
> Skills: ?
> Feats: (same as human form)
> Environment?: Temperate plains
> Organization: (same as human form)
> Challenge Rating: ?
> Treasure: Standard
> Alignment: Always neutral evil
> Advancement: By character class
> Level Adjustment: ?
>
> This thin humanoid has a disturbingly blank stare, and it's cracked
> skin seems to ripple and pulse as if alive.
>
> A werelocust in humanoid form tens to be shorter than average and thin.
> It's horsey face hold two large unblinking eyes.
>
> Combat
> Alternate Form (Su): A werelocust can assume a bipedal hybrid
> form-which is actually a humanoid shell filled with an amorphous
> swarm-or the form of a locust swarm.
> Curse of Lycanthropy (Su): Any humanoid or giant hit by a werelocusts
> swarm or bite attack in animal or hybrid form must succeed on a DC 15
> Fortitude save or contract lycanthropy.
> Locust Empathy (Ex): Communicate with locusts and monstrous locusts,
> and a +4 racial bonus on Charisma-based checks against locusts and
> monstrous locusts.
> Swarm Traits: In swarm form, a werelocust has the following
> vulnerabilities: lit torches swung as improvised weapons deal 1d3
> points of fire damage, a weapon with a special ability such as flaming
> or frost deals its full energy damage with each hit, even if the
> weapon's normal damage can't affect the swarm, a lit lantern can be
> used as a thrown weapon, dealing 1d4 points of fire damage to all
> creatures in squares adjacent to where it breaks, the shape of the
> swarm is malleable.
> Distraction (Ex): Any living creature that begins its turn with a
> locust swarm in its space must succeed on a DC 12 Fortitude save or be
> nauseated for 1 round. The save DC is Constitution-based.
> Skills: ?
> Feats: ?
>
 
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agh, I can't believe all the typos I made. "its" not "it's" and "tends"
not "tens." I've found that Swarms can't grapple.

By the way Ron, all I did was what you suggested which was blend the
template with the swam stats. I did find the Libris Mortis, and the
undead swarm-shifter template which is kind of in line with this.
 
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chenry.hen@gmail.com wrote:
> Here's a first pass. I'm not sure how to fill in the sort of generic
> values (like abilities, skills, etc.) so I've left those blank. If
> anyone wants to help fill in the details, I would be most appreciative.

Check out the "entomantothrope" on the Wizards of the Coast website:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20040621a

It's revision-compatible, and you could monkey with it a bit to give it the
ability to become a swarm of the appropriate vermin.

--
Christopher Adams - Sydney, Australia
What part of "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn" don't you
understand?
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mhacdebhandia/prestigeclasslist.html
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mhacdebhandia/templatelist.html

Quo usque tandem abutere, Vepre, patientia nostra?
 

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