Are you waiting on Zen?

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zoenphlux

zoenphlux

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Oct 3, 2008
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This is stacking up to be a big year for AMD, or so I hope. I am looking to sell my current intel setup, and invest into a full AMD system this fall...unless Bulldozer happens all over again. I want back with AMD.

Anybody else planning to go AMD if this CPU and GPU pan out like they are claiming?
 
So you're making enormous plans based on vendor announcements? Not waiting for benchmarks? When last was it that AMD had a high-end processor that outperformed Intel? I think around 16 years ago. Ever since Intel launched the COre architecture, AMD has been unable to catch up. Piledriver and Bulldozer were steaming piles of dung. Now you think they're going to catch up in one redesign?

I have a Raspberry Pi to sell you.
 
I do have the trust that Zen will be different than Bulldozer & Piledriver. If AMD doesn't deliver it's practically their end. And from the theoretical setups that have been released, the weaknesses of Bulldozer/Piledriver were ironed out.
 
Like I stated up top"...Unless bulldozer happens all over again." I will be using the system until I see results as you stated, but I do plan to save up for it hoping it does come to pass. I like rooting for the underdog, but only if it makes at least some sense.

Current gen AMD didn't make any sense for what I use a PC for, which is mostly gaming. That's why I have Intel. Same reason I use page plus. I can't stand major carriers, but they own the towers. I use whoever has the best coverage. Intel just has the best coverage right now.

I do have full confidence in the GPU side at least, as they have been able to trade blows successfully. They also have some serious power coming with this 14nm change over.
 
We already know Zen is a late 2016 product at the earliest. And even taking AMDs claims into account, most of us here are expecting Ivy Bridge/Haswell performance at best. And I don't think anyone seriously expects Zen to compete against Skylake on performance.

So no, I'm not waiting for a chip that will be competitive with current i7's and Skylake/Kabylake i5's, and probably cost more because its "new".
 



Wow, you set the bar low at "8 fully working cores".... :)
 

Why? Generally an i7 is basically 4 cores with hyperthreading. With fully working cores I don't mean bulldozer type cores. But basically eight i5-like cores, if you know what I mean.
 
I can understand those switching to Intel. Bulldozer didn't deliver.. which is a shame. Anyone would call me an idiot for putting my money on the Bulldozer even though I knew it was a total dissapointment; but I did it anyway to give them the support. In fact I built 4 FX based machines, 2 with FM1, 3 with FM2 and 2 AM1 HTPC's for family and friends.

With that being said, I will invest on Zen and Polaris anytime. I could care less of the bechmarks or if Zen can outperform its Intel counterparts.

But the reality is that that even with my full support, if they don't release something at least decent they will just dissapear. This is simply something out of my control.

Like everyone I have hopes that Zen will be decent. It will be naive to think they can catch up now that they are at the verge of bankruptcy.

They have lost a lot of ground, yet I can see how as a company they are also learning from their mistakes. Though it might be a bit too late now and maybe not in a good time, one example is how much effort they have made to improve their image. AMD's image has changed a lot, and for good.

While performance is very important, marketing and the ability to get your name out there is just as important. This applies in any industry. There is a reason why everyone knows about "The brand in Blue" but almost no one has ever heard of AMD.

Same thing with Nvidia... The green team is great at what they do, but they also dedicate everything to the gaming community. They are everywhere, in almost every event, big or small... even the smalles indie meeting here in San Francisco. They are there to sell their image and get their products noticed.

I honestly feel Zen might be the last though... Many companies have slowly vanished from the industry in the same way, the creation of niche markets, niche products is the first bad sign. Next thing you know, a merger... maybe.

Zen is coming late.. very very late.

I could be wrong though. I really hope I am.
 


I hope you didn't make your friends and family pay for your misplaced loyalty. :) Friends don't let friends build with AMD processors.

Truth of the matter, as you yourself observe, your 4 processor contribution makes no difference at all. We're talking millions of processors or nothing.

I could be wrong though. I really hope I am.
Click to expand...
yes.

 
Steve Jobs, and his team(he didn't do it alone) saved Apple when they were in the same boat. Steve Jobs wasn't a one and only savior. He was just the right man at the right time. If AMD can pull the same, they can be saved too. I sure hope the zen brings the name back near the top.
 
i had to upgrade last year for a Pentium (from fx8320) just because i needed a strong cpu for emulation, and this month i upgraded to the cheapest i3 to replace my Amd Athlon 5150 as a media server.

Same thing with gpu, last year i had to upgrade to the GTX960 because i was tired of waiting.
I favor low TDP.
But if AMD can offer something with low TDP and lots of cores, im in
 
You are wrong to think everyone is an enthusiast or a hardcore gamer. Some of my friends needed a machine for music production, some for illustration. Most of the needed something for basic usage. And getting no complaints from any of them means that those machines are serving their purpose and I am happy for it. It's all I care.
 


Again, that low bar set by AMD "enthusiasts". Your family/friends probably don't know better, that's why they're happy - happy to pay the costs of an inferior performing system, the on-going costs of more energy consumption and whatnot. When I build I care about a lot more than whether ignorant users are "happy".

You can't blindly advocate a system that, on the numbers, doesn't deliver and has not delivered for at least 15 years.
 
The only real place the current CPUS are so bad for is gaming. Sadly, this is also the majority of what is done on enthusiast PCs, so it does matter to a lot of people. When it comes to other areas, the CPUs are mostly on par with their price point, and sometimes even better. If zen can bring the gaming back up to the price point, it will do well.

When you are building for other people, all they want to see is it works well. Benchmarks skew our perception of reality. We see where it does worse in one chart from another, and from there on even in the real world we perceive a task as "slow" because it isn't as fast. All the sudden, seconds difference on a chart becomes "THEY ARE SO MUCH FASTER!". Truth is, to the avg person, it all looks the same. So building for others is fine, because they don't know any different, nor would they care.
 


I used to be this way too. Then I realized they would never use half of the system, so i was just wasting their money. I have since learned to dial back my enthusiasm for this stuff, and give people all they need. Not what I want.
 


I'm not sure if the "I used to be this way too" comment refers to me or to the person I responded. I myself am not above giving someone an Intel NUc-type device mounted on the VESA mount on the back of a monitor if all they want is a low-end system. It's quiet, energy efficient, and does the job.

My own file server in my house is an ageing Intel Atom processor. I've built and recommended systems over the range from Atom, Pentium, i3, i5 up to 6-core i7s and then on to higher-end Xeon processors.

 


False argument. Yes, for non-enthusiast tasks, you won't see a noticeable difference between AMD and Intel. However, that still ignores the fact that Intel chips are consistently faster, and thus, a better purchase, for the sole reason of being able to wait a longer period before a hardware update becomes necessary.
 
The CPU alone is probably the last reason to ever upgrade. It requires a whole new motherboard in most cases, and with that the speed up is rarely justified by the price. We read these posts, and articles, and get the bug to upgrade. Not because the computer is unbearable. Even many PC gamers buy their computers, and they wouldn't know the difference because they are not looking to see. My cousin bought a gaming computer many years ago, and when I went to visit I discovered the CPU multiplier wasn't set right ,so the cpu was clocked down way slower than it should have been. He had no idea, it was still fine (this was AMD x2 days lol)

How long does the average user keep a computer? Until hardware dies, or until they want a new one because of the perception of slow(windows lagging). In most of the systems I have worked on where it is super slow, it is rarely due to the CPU. It's from other issues. Even badly configured new systems can be slow out of the gate. Try running an i7 with 2gb ram (these systems are sold still). Open two programs, and Windows is dragging. Try running something with a full SSD on an i7. System slows to crawl. This is what people deal with, and care about. Not whether it is a Celeron, A4, or i7. I work on widows xp machines still. Why? Because people don't care. They are fine with it.

You and I are not like that. We know and care. AMD is good on a low end, and mid level. Just pick the one you favor, the end user won't notice. I don't build many systems anymore besides my own, because I work on computers for a living and I get tired of supporting them after hours too. I just tell people to go buy a cheap dell, and have the warranty. lol They will be happy with that.
 
I started this not because I was trying to justify shifting, but because I just want an AMD system. I was curious who else might be looking to do it. Should have figured it would become a peeing contest between brands.
 

This is like saying "I just want to be in the bottom 25%"
 
Yeah well, anything we say now is pointless because Zen is not out yet, but the truth is a lot of us are waiting on Zen. Fans or not.. we all are.

It's your decision if you want to sell your current build and switch over. You are free to have your own opinion, free to support whatever brand you like and free to invest your money however you like. No one can tell you otherwise.

Threads like these often lead to nowhere really. Especially if people start taking sides. You can just simply ignore and move on, or keep replying back until things gets heated, more people jumps in and moderators decides to close the thread.

 
Yeah, all of us are hooked on the "one more month" mentality. And Zen promises to be one of the best releases in a while. But in the end it all comes down to OEM configs, even the best CPU can't avoid RAM, GPU and drive bottlenecks.
 
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