Armor choice

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

I'm playing a Valk. I'm wondering what long term choice of armor should be
the best (and may happen to get a wish soon through smokie's).

Of course, I'll need both reflection and MR, Displacment could be nice, as
well as twoweaponing or lifesaving...

I'm currently expert in both hammer (Mojo) and swords (Exca, maybe a brand
latter) and have no free skill slot. If I happen to get one, i'll may go
for daggers (19 blessed fixed +3 daggers, will enchant them further
eventually) rather than twoweaponing.

So, that leave me with the following possibilities (mainly):

1/ Shield of reflection+GDSM+cloak of displ.+amulet of LS.
2/ small shield (+3) + SDSM+cloak of MR + AoLS.
3/ twoweap. + SDSM + CoMR + AoLS.
4/ shield/2weap + GDSM + CoD + AoR.

What do you think shoul be the best in the long term ?
(I'm currently below DL 20, should see Medusa soon and haven't done the
Quest yet).
I think 1/ could be good, but there may be think I've not thounght about.

Oh, by the way, concerning the head slot, should I stay with my elven
leather helm (for +7 enchantement) or should I try some special helm
(telepathy probably since brilliance is not so usefull for figthers) ?

Hypocoristiquement,
Jym.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Jym wrote:
> So, that leave me with the following possibilities (mainly):
>
> 1/ Shield of reflection+GDSM+cloak of displ.+amulet of LS.
> 2/ small shield (+3) + SDSM+cloak of MR + AoLS.
> 3/ twoweap. + SDSM + CoMR + AoLS.
> 4/ shield/2weap + GDSM + CoD + AoR.
>
> What do you think shoul be the best in the long term ?

I am playing a Valk too (you may have read the thread about the
castle), and I am going for a variant of 1/. Since Khia is
invisible she doesn't need displacement, so she wears an oilskin
cloak instead. I've just spent a wish on GDSM, and have reflection
from the Shield.

Option 2/ gives you a better AC (if the Shield of Reflection
is unenchanted), but monsters will hit you more often if you
don't have displacement or invisibility.

Option 3/ would be a great choice when you find a *very* good
non-artifact weapon to use as a secondary weapon.

One final note: If you will want to polymorph, a Shield of
Reflection or AoR will allow you to keep reflection while
polymorphed into a big monster.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Jym wrote:
> So, that leave me with the following possibilities (mainly):
>
> 1/ Shield of reflection+GDSM+cloak of displ.+amulet of LS.
> 2/ small shield (+3) + SDSM+cloak of MR + AoLS.
> 3/ twoweap. + SDSM + CoMR + AoLS.
> 4/ shield/2weap + GDSM + CoD + AoR.
>
> What do you think shoul be the best in the long term ?

> Hypocoristiquement,
> Jym.

I like option 4 myself. - I prefer twoweaponing to shields and I prefer
CoD to CoMR, which means I have to have GDSM instead of SDSM. Also
note that you can swap out the CoD for an oilskin to make you immune to
drowning by water creatures.

Darth.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Jakob Creutzig wrote:
> "Manuel" <manuel.matias@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > I am playing a Valk too (you may have read the thread about the
> > castle), and I am going for a variant of 1/. Since Khia is
> > invisible she doesn't need displacement, so she wears an oilskin
> > cloak instead.
>
> One could rephrase that as 'can't use replacement',
> since replacement is superior to invisibility.


Really? Is it?
I have had better results with invisibility, but it can be a matter
of luck (I've used displacement very few times).

On the other hand, invisibility can be acquired as intrinsic, so
it means being able to wear CoMR or Oilskin Cloak instead.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Jym wrote:
> I'm playing a Valk. I'm wondering what long term choice of armor should be
> the best (and may happen to get a wish soon through smokie's).
>
> Of course, I'll need both reflection and MR, Displacment could be nice, as
> well as twoweaponing or lifesaving...
>
> I'm currently expert in both hammer (Mojo) and swords (Exca, maybe a brand
> latter) and have no free skill slot. If I happen to get one, i'll may go
> for daggers (19 blessed fixed +3 daggers, will enchant them further
> eventually) rather than twoweaponing.
>
> So, that leave me with the following possibilities (mainly):
>
> 1/ Shield of reflection+GDSM+cloak of displ.+amulet of LS.
> 2/ small shield (+3) + SDSM+cloak of MR + AoLS.
> 3/ twoweap. + SDSM + CoMR + AoLS.
> 4/ shield/2weap + GDSM + CoD + AoR.
>
> What do you think shoul be the best in the long term ?
> (I'm currently below DL 20, should see Medusa soon and haven't done the
> Quest yet).
> I think 1/ could be good, but there may be think I've not thounght about.
>
> Oh, by the way, concerning the head slot, should I stay with my elven
> leather helm (for +7 enchantement) or should I try some special helm
> (telepathy probably since brilliance is not so usefull for figthers) ?
>
> Hypocoristiquement,
> Jym.

Number 3 is my standard, if I can get it. It depends on what shows up
early; if I find a bones of a wizard, I"ll go with (3), but if I get an
"oR from Sokoban, I'll usually try for GDSM.

I don't like displacement. I think Magic Cancellation 3 is too
important. I also don't like to depend on lifesaving; I'll usually wear
it, but I have no problem taking it off for magic breathing or ESP.

The way I see it, there are only two options for reflection; SDSM and
"oR. On the other hand, there are many sources of MR, and many useful
amulets. So I always prefer SDSM, to free the amulet spot, and I get my
MR somewhere else. Usually it's from a cloak of MR, but if I have 2 or 3
other sources (from quest artifacts, usually) I may put on a robe or
oilskin.

Basically, SDSM lets you be flexible. GDSM locks you into the GDSM/"oR
combo.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"Manuel" <manuel.matias@gmail.com> wrote:
>Jakob Creutzig wrote:
>> One could rephrase that as 'can't use replacement',
>> since replacement is superior to invisibility.
>
>Really? Is it?
>I have had better results with invisibility, but it can be a matter
>of luck (I've used displacement very few times).

Invisibility may lead a monster who cannot see invisible to make a one-
space error in its assessment of where you are. It also negates the
effect of displacement with respect to monsters who cannot see
invisible.

Displacement may lead a monster to make a *two*-space error in its
assessment of where you are, but only if you are in principle visible to
them (i.e. they are not blind, and either you are not invisible, or they
can see invisible).
--
Martin Read - my opinions are my own. share them if you wish.
My roguelike games page (including my BSD-licenced roguelike) can be found at:
http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~mpread/roguelikes.html
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"Manuel" <manuel.matias@gmail.com> writes:

> I am playing a Valk too (you may have read the thread about the
> castle), and I am going for a variant of 1/. Since Khia is
> invisible she doesn't need displacement, so she wears an oilskin
> cloak instead.

One could rephrase that as 'can't use replacement',
since replacement is superior to invisibility.

Best,
Jakob
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Wed, 6 Apr 2005, Manuel wrote:

>
> Jym wrote:
> > So, that leave me with the following possibilities (mainly):
> >
> > 1/ Shield of reflection+GDSM+cloak of displ.+amulet of LS.
> > 2/ small shield (+3) + SDSM+cloak of MR + AoLS.
> > 3/ twoweap. + SDSM + CoMR + AoLS.
> > 4/ shield/2weap + GDSM + CoD + AoR.
> >
> > What do you think shoul be the best in the long term ?
>
> I am playing a Valk too (you may have read the thread about the
> castle),

Got a glimpse of the thread.

> and I am going for a variant of 1/. Since Khia is
> invisible she doesn't need displacement, so she wears an oilskin
> cloak instead. I've just spent a wish on GDSM, and have reflection
> from the Shield.

My previous and only encounter with sea creatures (a monk, first time
below sok and ascended) did not make them look too powerfull for me. Of
course, warning and distance attack was very useful for that... I've got 3
amulets of ESP so I guess I'll try no to use oilskin (or maybe just on the
plan of water).

> Option 2/ gives you a better AC (if the Shield of Reflection
> is unenchanted), but monsters will hit you more often if you
> don't have displacement or invisibility.

Sine I know both scrolls of enchant armor and charging, the castle wishes
will probablygo for a bunch of magic markers to fully enchant my AK. I'm
only really missing the DSM and speed boots currently and may find them
before using the wishes.

> Option 3/ would be a great choice when you find a *very* good
> non-artifact weapon to use as a secondary weapon.

Silver saber is one of the best in Gehennom iirc (plus twoweaponing Exca
and silver saber should be great in graveyards 🙂 ). OTOH, I have no free
slot currently (level 12, long sword and hammer at expert) to enhance
twoweapon, that's why I may skip this option (I'm thinking to go to expert
in dagger too, that's a good ranged weapon when properly enchanted. Since
I already own 19 blessed rustproof +3 daggers (but usually only carry 10
at a time), that looks like a really good option to me.

> One final note: If you will want to polymorph, a Shield of
> Reflection or AoR will allow you to keep reflection while
> polymorphed into a big monster.

Right. Anyway, I'll keep the AoR as a backup if needed. I don't think I'll
polymorph for long time (maybe just the time to eat a few rings or
amulets) in this game.

Hypocoristiquement,
Jym.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Jym wrote:

> On Wed, 6 Apr 2005, Manuel wrote:
>
>>
>> Jym wrote:
>> > So, that leave me with the following possibilities (mainly):
>> >
>> > 1/ Shield of reflection+GDSM+cloak of displ.+amulet of LS.
>> > 2/ small shield (+3) + SDSM+cloak of MR + AoLS.
>> > 3/ twoweap. + SDSM + CoMR + AoLS.
>> > 4/ shield/2weap + GDSM + CoD + AoR.

>> Option 3/ would be a great choice when you find a *very* good
>> non-artifact weapon to use as a secondary weapon.
>
> Silver saber is one of the best in Gehennom iirc (plus twoweaponing Exca
> and silver saber should be great in graveyards 🙂 ). OTOH, I have no free
> slot currently (level 12, long sword and hammer at expert) to enhance
> twoweapon, that's why I may skip this option (I'm thinking to go to expert
> in dagger too, that's a good ranged weapon when properly enchanted. Since
> I already own 19 blessed rustproof +3 daggers (but usually only carry 10
> at a time), that looks like a really good option to me.
>
>> One final note: If you will want to polymorph, a Shield of
>> Reflection or AoR will allow you to keep reflection while
>> polymorphed into a big monster.
>
> Right. Anyway, I'll keep the AoR as a backup if needed. I don't think I'll
> polymorph for long time (maybe just the time to eat a few rings or
> amulets) in this game.
>
> Hypocoristiquement,
> Jym.

My standard set for a lawful fighter is a variant of nr. 4.

Excalibur/silver sabre, GDSM, amulet of reflection. Then if I have some nice
spells like Identify, I'll add a helm of brilliance and a robe for the last
slots. Otherwise HoTelepathy and Displacement. I rarely if ever use
"oLifesaving, and use oilskin against ; (or genocide them). I may swap
Excalibur for Grayswandir in Gehennon if The-Powers-That-Be have gifted me
with it.

As for enhancing daggers; yes, it seems like a great idea, and I tend to do
so. But then I end up almost never throwing them, since two-weaponing is so
powerful.

Sidsel
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

I've always found with combat wombats that I *need* two-weapon to do
any real sort of damage down in Gehennom. Or perhaps I'm just impatient
:) I've had characters with +7 frost/+7 silver sabre or +7
grayswandir/+7 silver sabre, which is just ludicrous, but Mojo/Silver
sabre or Excalibur/Sabre would go just as well.

Given that, I usually stick with the tried and tested SDSM, CoMR, AoLS.
You lose out a little in armour class (-35 is about as good as I get).
I wouldn't worry about skill slots - you've got quite a few XP levels
ahead of you, and potions of gain level and wraith corpses tend to turn
up with increasing regularity as you dive.

--
flamearrows
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"Martin Read" <mpread@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote in message
news:FYo*BJpLq@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk...
> "Manuel" <manuel.matias@gmail.com> wrote:
>>Jakob Creutzig wrote:
>>> One could rephrase that as 'can't use replacement',
>>> since replacement is superior to invisibility.
>>
>>Really? Is it?
>>I have had better results with invisibility, but it can be a matter
>>of luck (I've used displacement very few times).
>
> Invisibility may lead a monster who cannot see invisible to make a one-
> space error in its assessment of where you are. It also negates the
> effect of displacement with respect to monsters who cannot see
> invisible.
>
> Displacement may lead a monster to make a *two*-space error in its
> assessment of where you are, but only if you are in principle visible to
> them (i.e. they are not blind, and either you are not invisible, or they
> can see invisible).

Anybody who is anybody can see invisible.
It seems pretty rare but even major demons seem to have fallen for the
displaced image once in a while.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"Darth." <drdarthvader@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1112790980.519893.100920@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>
> Jym wrote:
>> So, that leave me with the following possibilities (mainly):
>>
>> 1/ Shield of reflection+GDSM+cloak of displ.+amulet of LS.
>> 2/ small shield (+3) + SDSM+cloak of MR + AoLS.
>> 3/ twoweap. + SDSM + CoMR + AoLS.
>> 4/ shield/2weap + GDSM + CoD + AoR.
>>
>> What do you think shoul be the best in the long term ?
>
>> Hypocoristiquement,
>> Jym.
>
> I like option 4 myself. - I prefer twoweaponing to shields and I prefer
> CoD to CoMR, which means I have to have GDSM instead of SDSM. Also
> note that you can swap out the CoD for an oilskin to make you immune to
> drowning by water creatures.

I'm currently skilled at twoweaponing but I don't use it much because I'm
always swapping between my Brands for "ordinary" creatures, my Werebane for
the undead and my Demonbane for demons.
I then have to wield my longsword again and swap again and twoweapon again.
Ideally I would like a separate command for designating the secondary and
for that to be wielded as secondary whenever it is possible and not when not
e.g. proposed commands:

w d <wield my demonbane>
#twoweapon l <make my long sword secondary and use two weapon whenever>
W s <wear a shield - automatically stops twoweapon rather than saying I
can't>
T s
w p <wield my pick axe>
w w <wields my werebane as primary and long sword as secondary and uses
twoweapon>
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"Jym" <moyen@loria.fr> wrote in message
news😛ine.LNX.4.51.0504061235580.6658@hagen.loria.fr...
> I'm playing a Valk. I'm wondering what long term choice of armor should be
> the best (and may happen to get a wish soon through smokie's).

> 1/ Shield of reflection+GDSM+cloak of displ.+amulet of LS.
> 2/ small shield (+3) + SDSM+cloak of MR + AoLS.
> 3/ twoweap. + SDSM + CoMR + AoLS.
> 4/ shield/2weap + GDSM + CoD + AoR.
>
> What do you think shoul be the best in the long term ?

None of them - because you should be wearing a +5 T-shirt with all of them!
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Thu, 7 Apr 2005, Nick Hounsome wrote:

>
> "Jym" <moyen@loria.fr> wrote in message
> news😛ine.LNX.4.51.0504061235580.6658@hagen.loria.fr...
> > I'm playing a Valk. I'm wondering what long term choice of armor should be
> > the best (and may happen to get a wish soon through smokie's).
>
> > 1/ Shield of reflection+GDSM+cloak of displ.+amulet of LS.
> > 2/ small shield (+3) + SDSM+cloak of MR + AoLS.
> > 3/ twoweap. + SDSM + CoMR + AoLS.
> > 4/ shield/2weap + GDSM + CoD + AoR.
> >
> > What do you think shoul be the best in the long term ?
>
> None of them - because you should be wearing a +5 T-shirt with all of them!

And GoP, and speed boots, and +7 elven leather helm.
Of course.
But I was speaking about stuff for which there was some hesitation. I
don't really hesitate between +5 T-shirt and +5 hawaian shirt (maybe I
should ?)

Well, anyway, I solved the question the hard way: die of carelessnes.
This time by switching one too many time between Mojo and pick-axe will
carry stash down and digging stair-to-stair paths. Killed by a gargoyle
with -10 AC and 100 HPs... Leaving a nice bone (DL 15, yellow dragon and
demilich as (former) pets).

Hypocoristiquement,
Jym.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Jym <moyen@loria.fr> writes:

> And GoP, and speed boots, and +7 elven leather helm.
> Of course.
> But I was speaking about stuff for which there was some hesitation. I
> don't really hesitate between +5 T-shirt and +5 hawaian shirt (maybe I
> should ?)

It depends on whether your flashy attire will cause an adjustment in the cost
of living....

--
Michael Meissner
email: mrmnews@the-meissners.org
http://www.the-meissners.org
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Quoting Nick Hounsome <nh002@blueyonder.co.uk>:
>"Martin Read" <mpread@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote in message
>>Displacement may lead a monster to make a *two*-space error in its
>>assessment of where you are, but only if you are in principle visible to
>>them (i.e. they are not blind, and either you are not invisible, or they
>>can see invisible).
>Anybody who is anybody can see invisible.
>It seems pretty rare but even major demons seem to have fallen for the
>displaced image once in a while.

They fall for it with the same probability as anyone else. Read what
Martin writes carefully; if the opponent has see invisible, displacement
always works. If they do _not_, displacement works _only_ if you are not
invisible.
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> flcl?
Today is Second Mania, April.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"Nick Hounsome" <nh002@nickhounsome.me.uk> wrote:

> I'm currently skilled at twoweaponing but I don't use it much because I'm
> always swapping between my Brands for "ordinary" creatures, my Werebane for
> the undead and my Demonbane for demons.

Don't bother. Werebane doesn't work against most undead (except for
being a silver sabre, in which aspect two-weaponing with a normal one
works just as well) - you may have been thinking of Sunsword - and most
of them are wusses anyway; and the vast majority of demons are
susceptible to Frosty (ice devils and Asmodeus being the exceptions).

> I then have to wield my longsword again and swap again and twoweapon again.
> Ideally I would like a separate command for designating the secondary and
> for that to be wielded as secondary whenever it is possible and not when not
> e.g. proposed commands:

How about turning the option pushweapon off?

Richard
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Thu, 7 Apr 2005, Michael Meissner wrote:

> Jym <moyen@loria.fr> writes:
>
> > And GoP, and speed boots, and +7 elven leather helm.
> > Of course.
> > But I was speaking about stuff for which there was some hesitation. I
> > don't really hesitate between +5 T-shirt and +5 hawaian shirt (maybe I
> > should ?)
>
> It depends on whether your flashy attire will cause an adjustment in the cost
> of living....

As I don't play toursits, my shirt is
1/ usually covered by some other armor.
2/ found late and shopkeepers are dealt with pets and not money.
2bis/ anyway, I usually buy very few things (tripe rations and stuff I
*really* need) (unless of course, a pet Xorn is about to eat a whole
armor/weapon shop...)

Hypocoristiquement,
Jym.
 
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"Richard Bos" <rlb@hoekstra-uitgeverij.nl> wrote in message
news:425560fd.2692875@news.xs4all.nl...
> "Nick Hounsome" <nh002@nickhounsome.me.uk> wrote:
>
>> I'm currently skilled at twoweaponing but I don't use it much because I'm
>> always swapping between my Brands for "ordinary" creatures, my Werebane
>> for
>> the undead and my Demonbane for demons.
>
> Don't bother. Werebane doesn't work against most undead (except for
> being a silver sabre, in which aspect two-weaponing with a normal one
> works just as well) - you may have been thinking of Sunsword - and most
> of them are wusses anyway; and the vast majority of demons are
> susceptible to Frosty (ice devils and Asmodeus being the exceptions).

I couldn't find a plain silver sabre.
It certainly looked to me like my +5 Demonbane took them out much much
quicker than my +4 FrostBrand.

>
>> I then have to wield my longsword again and swap again and twoweapon
>> again.
>> Ideally I would like a separate command for designating the secondary and
>> for that to be wielded as secondary whenever it is possible and not when
>> not
>> e.g. proposed commands:
>
> How about turning the option pushweapon off?

Ahha! that sounds like a good idea.
Of course I also need to swap between twoweaponing and a pick-axe.

>
> Richard

Anyway - that character is dead now -although I got much further than ever
before and then died due to lack of attention as usual.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"Nick Hounsome" <nh002@nickhounsome.me.uk> wrote:

> "Richard Bos" <rlb@hoekstra-uitgeverij.nl> wrote in message
> news:425560fd.2692875@news.xs4all.nl...
> > Don't bother. Werebane doesn't work against most undead (except for
> > being a silver sabre, in which aspect two-weaponing with a normal one
> > works just as well) - you may have been thinking of Sunsword - and most
> > of them are wusses anyway; and the vast majority of demons are
> > susceptible to Frosty (ice devils and Asmodeus being the exceptions).
>
> I couldn't find a plain silver sabre.
> It certainly looked to me like my +5 Demonbane took them out much much
> quicker than my +4 FrostBrand.

Well, it would be somewhat better, being +5 rather than +4, but against
non-cold-resistant demons (which is most of them), they both do +d5 to
hit and x2 damage.

> Anyway - that character is dead now -although I got much further than ever
> before and then died due to lack of attention as usual.

Story of my characters' life... or lack of it.

Richard