News ASRock's 4x4 Motherboard Packs AMD Phoenix CPUs, Dual Ethernet Ports

[Admin]

ASRock Industrial has announced the 4X4-7840U and 4X4 7640U motherboards and their corresponding mini-PC variants.

ASRock's 4x4 Motherboard Packs AMD Phoenix CPUs, Dual Ethernet Ports : Read more

 

[bit_user]

We need more aftermarket cases for this form factor. Of course, it doesn't help that it has no separate backplate.

 

[Li Ken-un]

It’s unfortunate that these are for industrial customers. Some of the consumer-facing ones have started incorporating USB-C PD for power input instead of the reviled DC jack.

 

[domih]

I have the 4800U version of the 4x4: be aware of the thermals. The box is so small that the fan becomes noisy as soon as you do something substantial while the CPU clock throttles down. On the other hand, you can see these boxes or similar at the back of monitor in banks, pharmacies, hospitals etc where, my guess, the usage (using Windows) is rather tame. These corporations gets a nice discount because they buy them by the palette. Usage at home: okay for small desktop usage, e.g. email, browser, retro games or TV box, but not as a full desktop replacement. ARM-based (or Celeron-like x86) Android or Linux TV boxes or SBCs will achieve the same goals using much less power consumption and for a cheaper price.

Note: it comes with a back plate (if you meant VESA mounting).

 

[domih]

USB-C PD vs. "reviled DC jack"?

When doing custom installations where multiple SBC's are powered by the same power source, I prefer to solder or assemble DC jacks rather than USB C plugs...

 

[domih]

DASH (if it works OK) allows remote out of band management (BIOS, OS, apps) by IT people. That's a BMC/IPMI/Redfish equivalent for desktop PC.

 

[wbfox]

I thought the hdmi and dp specs were mistakes when I saw these boards and boxes a few days ago. Nope. We have the thing with rdna 3 graphics and give it lower capability display options than the previous 3 generations of amd based 4x4 and their mobos. Why? How does that happen? The 4x4 with a V1000 cpu (as in same group as ryzen gen 1) has hdmi 2.0. Again, how? why?

 

[wbfox]

It’s unfortunate that these are for industrial customers. Some of the consumer-facing ones have started incorporating USB-C PD for power input instead of the reviled DC jack.

You can buy any of the 4x4 on amazon or newegg or bhphoto etc... This is just where asrocks mini computers happen to have landed. they don't even have extreme temp. capabilities. So Industrial they really are not. They are asrock's nucs.

And how is depriving me of a usb c port for a power only slot reviled?

 

[George³]

Locking up part of the AMD Phoenix production and not presenting prices is a kind of scalping action and yes, after some time some already aging models will appear in regular stores. I have a faint memory from maybe months ago of a 4X4 box with a Ryzen 5500U that is more expensive than laptop offerings with similar specs. So the way they work for me is scalping.

 

[1_rick]

"The USB port count comes down to four. The motherboard has two USB 3.2 Gen 2 Type-A ports and two USB 4 Type-C ports."

You forgot the two (presumably) USB 2.0 ports.

Also, the 7640U boosts to 4.9GHz, not 3.9.

 

[abufrejoval]

I used to take these news like "Oh, something new I can buy!"

But then it turned out that that wasn't true, because between their announcement and their availability there was a gap, that often enough never closed.

NUCs have not just become trickle down items, but increasingly they seem to have become a preferred way of clearing out surplus inventory.

So today I think: "Oh, is it already this time of the life-cycle, where right after being 'unobtainium' Phoenix transition into 'surplus'"?

...because naked dies of AM5 8000 APUs have already been seen in the wild...

Of course it's still an attractive box, but IMHO only if you're after CPU power, at very constrained Wattage.

If you're hunting for iGPU performance just going with one of those older G11 and G12 dGPU NUCs Intel is selling off at surplus prices, should give you vastly better value with only a small increase in form factor and essentially a dGPU thrown in for free.

The G11 Enthusiast NUC with an RTX 2060m includes 6GB of GDDR6 for €450 and the G12 equivalent an ARC A700m with 16GB of GDDR6 for €600, very close to what these might retail at, once they become available.

Yes they eat quite a bit more of Wattage fully loaded, but then they deliver GPU performance along the same lines, too. On sustained pure CPU loads Ryzen remains probably hard to beat by Intel, but very few will run those on boxes like this.

For peak, average and idle CPU loads both my Tiger and the Alder Lake NUCs do really do rather well against my Ryzen 5800U in the home-lab. They may loose a little against a Phoenix, but depending on your use case, having a dGPU "for free" may still be a better choice, as long as suplies last.

If I needed a new notebook today, a Phoenix it might be, because they need to operate under battery capacity constraints Intel can't compete at today. For a NUC they still are at the wrong end of the price curve.

I'll probably get a Phoenix eventually, because it's fundamentally a great little machine and I keep needing them. But only once the unobtainium 8000 APUs are pushing their prices into the surplus range.

According to these news, that must be real soon now...

 

[Li Ken-un]

USB-C PD vs. "reviled DC jack"?

When doing custom installations where multiple SBC's are powered by the same power source, I prefer to solder or assemble DC jacks rather than USB C plugs...

The mom/dad and family friend folks aren’t installing an array of them. At least the ones I know: they just want to be able to easily replace the power source when the brick goes kaput. Myself: I just want less proprietary connectors.

Maybe I’m speaking to the wrong crowd.

 

[TJ Hooker]

The mom/dad and family friend folks aren’t installing an array of them. At least the ones I know: they just want to be able to easily replace the power source when the brick goes kaput. Myself: I just want less proprietary connectors.

Maybe I’m speaking to the wrong crowd.

Are you implying that DC barrel power connectors/jacks are proprietary?

 

[Li Ken-un]

Are you implying that DC barrel power connectors/jacks are proprietary?

This thread on another forum just about sums up my sentiment: Why are there so many DC barrel connectors?

They are all 'standard'...

... just not the same standard.

The only thing worse than measuring barrel plugs is barrel sockets - trying to measure the pin in the middle.

So while this is also true:

But, to answer the question, as with phones, every manufacturer wanted you to buy his supply in the event the original failed and a great deal of gear came with (and still does in many cases) dire warnings that on no account should ANY other supply be used!
In truth of course, so long as a supply meets the voltage and current requirements and is the correct polarity, brand matters diddly.

Good luck keeping track of all the different input voltages, polarities, lengths, inner diameters, and outer diameters.

Among the “standard” looking ones, you also have to determine whether they’re actually proprietary (e.g., with an extra pin inside the barrel) or not.

 

[bit_user]

I used to take these news like "Oh, something new I can buy!"

But then it turned out that that wasn't true, because between their announcement and their availability there was a gap, that often enough never closed.

This was worst during the pandemic, when production shortages caused higher-margin products to get favored. It caused a huge delay in Jasper/Elkhart Lake products reaching the market, for instance.

NUCs have not just become trickle down items, but increasingly they seem to have become a preferred way of clearing out surplus inventory.

Maybe due to discounting of those CPUs, later in the cycle, which makes them more economical/compelling?

So today I think: "Oh, is it already this time of the life-cycle, where right after being 'unobtainium' Phoenix transition into 'surplus'"?

Phoenix has only been on the market for about a quarter. I think it was "unobtanium", simply because the launch got so badly delayed.

...because naked dies of AM5 8000 APUs have already been seen in the wild...

According to these news, that must be real soon now...

How far in advance do engineering samples usually appear? Is this timing so unusual?

What news? The OEM who implied that Zen 5 would ship this year had to walk it back.

 

[abufrejoval]

What news? The OEM who implied that Zen 5 would ship this year had to walk it back.

The "news" is Phoenix becoming available as NUC turning into a sunset message for the Phoenix generation...

And yes, Zen 5 coming early would be very atypical for AMD.

So let's just hope for the best and that these boards and NUC can actually be bought at a reasonable price soon, not 6-12 months after an appetizer like this.

 

[bit_user]

The "news" is Phoenix becoming available as NUC turning into a sunset message for the Phoenix generation...

You discovered a heuristic, but now you're over-applying it. Phoenix basically just launched, and I think it's pretty good. There's no reason they'd be sunsetting it, already. Perhaps they just overproduced and that's why we're seeing some supply leak into the mini-PC market.