Question ASROCK's non-XMP RAM frequency support graph

[FireAntX10]

This has been on my mind for a few weeks now.

To start, I currently have a My ram is currently 2 pairs of TEAMGROUP T-Force Vulcan Z DDR4 16GB Kit (2x8GB) 3000MHz (PC4-24000) on an ASRock B450m Pro4 motherboard. Normally without XMP, the ram runs at 2400mhz, which is what it's currently on at the moment of typing this.

On ASRock's site on the specs of RAM the mother board, they have an odd chart that supports certain JEDEC/non-XMP RAM frequencies as shown with certain series of Ryzen processors:

• Matisse and Vermeer CPUs Series:
  
  
  
  
  
  
• Cezanne and Renoir APU Series:
  
  
  (It's the exact same thing as Vermeer and Matisse)
  
  
  
• Pinnacle Ridge:
  
  
  
  
  
• Picasso:
  
  
  
  
  
  
• Summit Ridge:
  
  
  
  
  
  
• Raven Ridge:
  
  
  
  

I currently have a Ryzen 7 5700g APU ( Which is Cezanne) on the motherboard. Two 8GB RAM sticks are currently channel A because it won't boot with channel B due. I used to have a Ryzen 7 2700X (Which I bought back in 2020) and used it on the motherboard, and it actually recognized the RAM on the B channel slots, albeit hardware reserved likely due to me breaking a few pins trying to straighten them with my hands at the time (that was my first processor and I didn't know how to straighten Ryzen CPU pins at the time.) I've since learned to straighten out pins with a razor blade.

What I'm trying to figure out here is what does this chart mean?

P.S: You know, this actually seems like a smart idea.

 

[zinkles]

What I'm trying to figure out here is what does this chart mean?

SR and DR means Single rank and Dual rank respectively.

• SR - There are memory chips only on one side of the RAM stick
• DR - ... on both sides of the RAM stick

This is also a fact why most manufacturers recommend you put the sticks in A2 and B2 slots, for maximum compatibility and speed. (as seen in the graph)

 

[FireAntX10]

SR and DR means Single rank and Dual rank respectively.

• SR - There are memory chips only on one side of the RAM stick
• DR - ... on both sides of the RAM stick

This is also a fact why most manufacturers recommend you put the sticks in A2 and B2 slots, for maximum compatibility and speed. (as seen in the graph)

That, I understand, but what about the memory frequencies in the graph? Where do they play into this?

 

[zinkles]

While I'm uncertain (correct me if I'm wrong, somebody), I think that's the frequency achievable with that configuration of SR/DR without Overclock (XMP)

So, basically looking into the graph, the higher the frequency you want to achieve on that board, you need SR sticks. If you use higher freq RAM, and they are DR, they wont work at that speed, but lower.

 

[FireAntX10]

While I'm uncertain (correct me if I'm wrong, somebody), I think that's the frequency achievable with that configuration of SR/DR without Overclock (XMP)

So, basically looking into the graph, the higher the frequency you want to achieve on that board, you need SR sticks. If you use higher freq RAM, and they are DR, they wont work at that speed, but lower.

That makes some sense.

That might explain why the 5700g can't boot with one stick on the B slots (B1/B2) even with another on one of the A slots (A1/A2), but is able to do so with the R7 2700X (despite the broken pins.). Maybe because the 2400MHZ ram slots can't handle the b-slots?

Things I've tried on the 5700g:

• Loosened the CPU Cooler. No luck on the PC booting with B-Slot ram
• Removed the CMOS Battery for 10 minutes before putting it back in and placing the Ram slots into A2/B2. Still no luck on the PC booting with RAM on B2.
• Checked the pins. Even when the processor didn't originally have bent pins, the PC still wouldn't boot.
• Cleaned the thermal paste on the the motherboard, still no luck.

Maybe I'm doing something wrong. the B-slots actually boot when the 2700X was in the motherboard when paired with RAM on an A-slot (PC won't boot if RAM's only in the B slots, though.)

I guess the chart seems to be the only clue on what to do.

 

[Avro Arrow]

I have 64GB of 64GB Team T-Force Vulcan Z DDR4-3600 (4x16GB) on my ASRock X570 Pro4 motherboard with my Ryzen 7 5800X3D. Just yesterday, The Last of Us Part 1 was crashing constantly (I just got it from Steam the day before). When I say constantly, I mean less than 30 seconds of gameplay and that's only IF the game didn't crash when loading. I was getting a combination of crashing without driver timeouts and crashing with driver timeouts. I was even getting messages asking me to verify the integrity of my Steam local files. I verified them twice without issue but it didn't help the problem.

For the better part of three hours I was tearing my hair out trying to figure out why this was happening (at my age, I'm just glad to still have a full head of hair...lol). I tried updating Windows, changing graphics settings in-game, turning off every gaming feature in Adrenalin, I re-installed the newest drivers, rolled back to February drivers, rolled back to January drivers and absolutely nothing helped.

At this point, I thought that maybe there was a hardware problem with my RX 7900 XTX because changing driver packages had no effect. So, I pulled my RX 6800 XT out of its box and swapped the cards. They use the same driver package so at least I didn't have to worry about that. This had no effect either which is fortunate because it means that my XTX is ok but unfortunate because I still had no solution.

I remembered reading years ago that sometimes an XMP overclock profile can cause instability. I didn't think that this was the case here because I'd been gaming for a long time without issue with all 64GB of my RAM running at 3600MHz but I was at the end of my rope. So, I restarted my PC, entered the BIOS, set the XMP profile to "auto" and booted Windows. I checked Task Manager and it said that my RAM was now running at 2400MHz. I didn't much care because differences in RAM speed have always been indiscernible to me. With fingers crossed, I loaded up The Last of Us Part 1 again and started hoping against hope.

I played it for over an hour with no crashes, closed it normally and went to bed, knowing that I was going to have to put my XTX back in (where my PC is located makes this a real pain in the arse) but at least I knew that the problem was solved. I'm not going to bother re-enabling the XMP profile because my system feels just as blazingly fast as it did with it enabled and I'd much rather not have to deal with any instability. Thus, I wouldn't recommend enabling it to anyone as it doesn't have any real impact that I could see on anything except the instability in that game.

I don't know why it made this game unstable when literally everything else (all games, benchmarks, utilities, browsers and Windows itself) was fine but since I didn't feel the difference in speed, I don't care. Besides, the X3D's v-cache completely mitigates slow RAM speed so at least in my position, 2400MHz is just as good as 3600MHz. I don't know if there would be a palpable difference for a non-X3D CPU but I'm guessing probably not since it was never an issue with my R7-1700, R5-3600X or R7-5700X.

Therefore, I would say that it's not worth worrying about and you should just leave it set to auto for stability's sake. Even if your RAM is stable enough to run everything at its top speed, you never know when something is going to not like it. What really got me is that since it had been so long since I set the XMP profile on my RAM and since I hadn't encountered any other stability problems, it didn't even enter my mind until I was literally grasping at straws. I would rather just have one less thing to worry about so my recommendation is to leave it turned off and just set your RAM speed to "Auto".

 

[FireAntX10]

I have 64GB of 64GB Team T-Force Vulcan Z DDR4-3600 (4x16GB) on my ASRock X570 Pro4 motherboard with my Ryzen 7 5800X3D. Just yesterday, The Last of Us Part 1 was crashing constantly (I just got it from Steam the day before). When I say constantly, I mean less than 30 seconds of gameplay and that's only IF the game didn't crash when loading. I was getting a combination of crashing without driver timeouts and crashing with driver timeouts. I was even getting messages asking me to verify the integrity of my Steam local files. I verified them twice without issue but it didn't help the problem.

For the better part of three hours I was tearing my hair out trying to figure out why this was happening (at my age, I'm just glad to still have a full head of hair...lol). I tried updating Windows, changing graphics settings in-game, turning off every gaming feature in Adrenalin, I re-installed the newest drivers, rolled back to February drivers, rolled back to January drivers and absolutely nothing helped.

At this point, I thought that maybe there was a hardware problem with my RX 7900 XTX because changing driver packages had no effect. So, I pulled my RX 6800 XT out of its box and swapped the cards. They use the same driver package so at least I didn't have to worry about that. This had no effect either which is fortunate because it means that my XTX is ok but unfortunate because I still had no solution.

I remembered reading years ago that sometimes an XMP overclock profile can cause instability. I didn't think that this was the case here because I'd been gaming for a long time without issue with all 64GB of my RAM running at 3600MHz but I was at the end of my rope. So, I restarted my PC, entered the BIOS, set the XMP profile to "auto" and booted Windows. I checked Task Manager and it said that my RAM was now running at 2400MHz. I didn't much care because differences in RAM speed have always been indiscernible to me. With fingers crossed, I loaded up The Last of Us Part 1 again and started hoping against hope.

I played it for over an hour with no crashes, closed it normally and went to bed, knowing that I was going to have to put my XTX back in (where my PC is located makes this a real pain in the arse) but at least I knew that the problem was solved. I'm not going to bother re-enabling the XMP profile because my system feels just as blazingly fast as it did with it enabled and I'd much rather not have to deal with any instability. Thus, I wouldn't recommend enabling it to anyone as it doesn't have any real impact that I could see on anything except the instability in that game.

I don't know why it made this game unstable when literally everything else (all games, benchmarks, utilities, browsers and Windows itself) was fine but since I didn't feel the difference in speed, I don't care. Besides, the X3D's v-cache completely mitigates slow RAM speed so at least in my position, 2400MHz is just as good as 3600MHz. I don't know if there would be a palpable difference for a non-X3D CPU but I'm guessing probably not since it was never an issue with my R7-1700, R5-3600X or R7-5700X.

Therefore, I would say that it's not worth worrying about and you should just leave it set to auto for stability's sake. Even if your RAM is stable enough to run everything at its top speed, you never know when something is going to not like it. What really got me is that since it had been so long since I set the XMP profile on my RAM and since I hadn't encountered any other stability problems, it didn't even enter my mind until I was literally grasping at straws. I would rather just have one less thing to worry about so my recommendation is to leave it turned off and just set your RAM speed to "Auto".

I don't think the graphs mention XMP frequencies. They're most likely talking about the RAM's JEDEC speeds, not the XMP OC speeds.

 

[Avro Arrow]

This has been on my mind for a few weeks now.

To start, I currently have a My ram is currently 2 pairs of TEAMGROUP T-Force Vulcan Z DDR4 16GB Kit (2x8GB) 3000MHz (PC4-24000) on an ASRock B450m Pro4 motherboard. Normally without XMP, the ram runs at 2400mhz, which is what it's currently on at the moment of typing this.

On ASRock's site on the specs of RAM the mother board, they have an odd chart that supports certain JEDEC/non-XMP RAM frequencies as shown with certain series of Ryzen processors:

• Matisse and Vermeer CPUs Series:
  
  
  
  I currently have a Ryzen 7 5700g APU ( Which is Cezanne) on the motherboard. Two 8GB RAM sticks are currently channel A because it won't boot with channel B due. I used to have a Ryzen 7 2700X (Which I bought back in 2020) and used it on the motherboard, and it actually recognized the RAM on the B channel slots, albeit hardware reserved likely due to me breaking a few pins trying to straighten them with my hands at the time (that was my first processor and I didn't know how to straighten Ryzen CPU pins at the time.) I've since learned to straighten out pins with a razor blade.
  What I'm trying to figure out here is what does this chart mean?
  
  P.S: You know, this actually seems like a smart idea.

I think that this shows what RAM frequencies are supported with which CPUs, which slots must be used depending on how many DIMMs you're using and whether the DIMMs are single-ranked or dual-ranked. I'll try to break it down for you.

This list is theoretically only for Zen2 and Zen3 CPUs, but as you pointed out, Zen2 and Zen3 APUs have the same specifications (it's stupid that they have separate graphs for them).

If you only have a single DIMM:
If you're only using a single DIMM, whether it's single or dual-ranked, it must be inserted into RAM slot A2. It can run at up to 3200MHz native.

If you have two DIMMs:
If you have two DIMMs, whether they're single or dual-ranked, they must be inserted into RAM slots A2 and B2. They can run at up to 3200MHz native.

If you have four DIMMs:
If you have four single-ranked DIMMs, they can run at a maximum speed of 2933MHz native.

If you have two single-ranked DIMMs and two dual-ranked DIMMs, the dual-ranked DIMMs must be used in RAM slots A2 and B2 with the single-ranked DIMMs occupying slots A1 and B1. They can run at a maximum speed of 2667MHz.

If you have four dual-ranked DIMMs, then you cannot exceed 2667MHz if you want to remain stable.

Since you have only two DIMMs, one MUST be inserted into RAM slot 2 (second-closest to your CPU) and one MUST be inserted in to RAM slot 4 (farthest from your CPU). If you do that, you'll have no more problems. When I was still using 16GB on my ASRock X570 Pro4, I was using slots 2 and 4 so that should be just fine for you because they have the exact same RAM charts.

I don't think the graphs mention XMP frequencies. They're most likely talking about the RAM's JEDEC speeds, not the XMP OC speeds.

Yeah, I didn't realise what you were asking the first time I read it. My bad. I hope that my answer helps you out.

It's actually kind of fortuitous because yesterday I was actually looking at the exact same chart for my X570 Pro4. I was experimenting with what I could get away with when playing The Last of Us Part 1 and I got it perfectly stable at 3200MHz despite having four DIMMs without XMP. It doesn't make any difference that I can feel but I've always liked to tinker.... 😉

 

[FireAntX10]

It's actually kind of fortuitous because yesterday I was actually looking at the exact same chart for my X570 Pro4. I was experimenting with what I could get away with when playing The Last of Us Part 1 and I got it perfectly stable at 3200MHz despite having four DIMMs without XMP. It doesn't make any difference that I can feel but I've always liked to tinker.... 😉

Did you manually set the RAM to 3200Mhz, or was it like that by default? If not, what is the default RAM speed on your PC?

This list is theoretically only for Zen2 and Zen3 CPUs, but as you pointed out, Zen2 and Zen3 APUs have the same specifications (it's stupid that they have separate graphs for them).

If you only have a single DIMM:
If you're only using a single DIMM, whether it's single or dual-ranked, it must be inserted into RAM slot A2. It can run at up to 3200MHz native.

If you have two DIMMs:
If you have two DIMMs, whether they're single or dual-ranked, they must be inserted into RAM slots A2 and B2. They can run at up to 3200MHz native.

If you have four DIMMs:
If you have four single-ranked DIMMs, they can run at a maximum speed of 2933MHz native.

If you have two single-ranked DIMMs and two dual-ranked DIMMs, the dual-ranked DIMMs must be used in RAM slots A2 and B2 with the single-ranked DIMMs occupying slots A1 and B1. They can run at a maximum speed of 2667MHz.

If you have four dual-ranked DIMMs, then you cannot exceed 2667MHz if you want to remain stable.

The bottom part of the graph also listed Single Rank for A2 and B2 for Matisse/Vermeer/Renoir/Cezanne? So what happens if I put all use four single-ranked DIMMs at 2667 MHZ? Will it be stable?

Where did ASROCK get that chart/graph from, by the way?

 

[Avro Arrow]

Did you manually set the RAM to 3200Mhz, or was it like that by default? If not, what is the default RAM speed on your PC?

Yeah, I manually set it. My RAM is rated for 3600MHz and that's what its XMP profile is. The max default speed of RAM is always 2400MHz (unless your RAM is rated for less than 2400MHz). IIRC, your BIOS lets Windows choose the RAM speed if you set it to auto and, in my experience, Windows always chooses 2400MHz. I think that it's because DDR4 is perfectly stable at 2400MHz, even if you're using DIMMs with different timings.

The bottom part of the graph also listed Single Rank for A2 and B2 for Matisse/Vermeer/Renoir/Cezanne? So what happens if I put all use four single-ranked DIMMs at 2667 MHZ? Will it be stable?

Absolutely. In fact, according to the chart, you can run four single-ranked DIMMs perfectly stable at 2933MHz. Since your RAM is rated for 3GHz, you'd be fine. Hell, I'm running four dual-ranked DIMMs (I'm guessing that they're dual-rank because they're 16GB each) and I'm stable at 3.2GHz even though it says that the limit is 2667MHz.

Where did ASROCK get that chart/graph from, by the way?

They probably made the chart themselves. They know their own products and they know the chipset specs that were given to them by AMD. They've likely gone through quite a bit of testing and these charts appear to be worst-case scenarios. These are speeds that are guaranteed to be stable with each RAM configuration. The reason that they have these charts is because they know for sure that these setups will be stable 100% of the time. If your motherboard isn't stable at the speeds that they show, you can RMA your motherboard.

To see if anyone else uses that chart, I looked at the webpage for the ASUS B450M-A Prime and they have no charts listed in the tech specs so I have to assume that ASRock made these charts themselves. It's actually a really cool thing to have because it's extremely useful for end users.

 

[FireAntX10]

Yeah, I manually set it. My RAM is rated for 3600MHz and that's what its XMP profile is. The max default speed of RAM is always 2400MHz (unless your RAM is rated for less than 2400MHz). IIRC, your BIOS lets Windows choose the RAM speed if you set it to auto and, in my experience, Windows always chooses 2400MHz. I think that it's because DDR4 is perfectly stable at 2400MHz, even if you're using DIMMs with different timings.

Absolutely. In fact, according to the chart, you can run four single-ranked DIMMs perfectly stable at 2933MHz. Since your RAM is rated for 3GHz, you'd be fine. Hell, I'm running four dual-ranked DIMMs (I'm guessing that they're dual-rank because they're 16GB each) and I'm stable at 3.2GHz even though it says that the limit is 2667MHz.

They probably made the chart themselves. They know their own products and they know the chipset specs that were given to them by AMD. They've likely gone through quite a bit of testing and these charts appear to be worst-case scenarios. These are speeds that are guaranteed to be stable with each RAM configuration. The reason that they have these charts is because they know for sure that these setups will be stable 100% of the time. If your motherboard isn't stable at the speeds that they show, you can RMA your motherboard.

To see if anyone else uses that chart, I looked at the webpage for the ASUS B450M-A Prime and they have no charts listed in the tech specs so I have to assume that ASRock made these charts themselves. It's actually a really cool thing to have because it's extremely useful for end users.

Wait, wait. wait... RAM configurations? I thought the frequencies had something to do with the default RAM frequencies out of the box, not XMP or any manual configurations.

 

[Avro Arrow]

Wait, wait. wait... RAM configurations? I thought the frequencies had something to do with the default RAM frequencies out of the box, not XMP or any manual configurations.

The frequencies listed on RAM sticks are what they're rated for. You can always run them at lower frequencies. Running them at faster frequencies can result in instability, just like overclocking a CPU or GPU. In this case though, the motherboard doesn't support those faster frequencies. I ended up dropping my RAM frequency from 3200 to 2666 just so that I wouldn't have any issues at all.

Running RAM at lower than its stock-rated frequency reduces power draw, temperatures and increases stability. Sure, you'll get lower scores in benchmark programs like 3DMark but in everyday use, you'd never notice.

 

[FireAntX10]

The frequencies listed on RAM sticks are what they're rated for. You can always run them at lower frequencies. Running them at faster frequencies can result in instability, just like overclocking a CPU or GPU. In this case though, the motherboard doesn't support those faster frequencies. I ended up dropping my RAM frequency from 3200 to 2666 just so that I wouldn't have any issues at all.

Running RAM at lower than its stock-rated frequency reduces power draw, temperatures and increases stability. Sure, you'll get lower scores in benchmark programs like 3DMark but in everyday use, you'd never notice.

So I was able to buy a kit of 2x8GB Patriot Memory Signature Premium RAM (2666 MHZ JEDEC) last Friday, inserted the RAM into A2 and B2, and I still wasn't able to boot in dual channel for my Ryzen 7 5700g (If I put any RAM in the B channel slots, or mix them with the A slots, the PC won't boot.) It must be a CPU issue then...

 

[Avro Arrow]

So I was able to buy a kit of 2x8GB Patriot Memory Signature Premium RAM (2666 MHZ JEDEC) last Friday, inserted the RAM into A2 and B2, and I still wasn't able to boot in dual channel for my Ryzen 7 5700g (If I put any RAM in the B channel slots, or mix them with the A slots, the PC won't boot.) It must be a CPU issue then...

I seriously doubt it. I've been building PCs since 1988 and I have never seen a CPU fail to function correctly. The only people who can kill a CPU are high-end competitive overclockers and they kill motherboards far more often than CPUs.

If I had to guess, I would say that your motherboard is the most likely culprit. The odds of it being a CPU problem are so small that even getting ten defective sets of RAM in a row would be more likely. I honestly believe that the problem is with your motherboard. Of all the core components (CPU/RAM/MOBO), motherboards are the most likely to fail. CPUs are by far the least likely PC component to ever fail or be defective.

 

[FireAntX10]

I seriously doubt it. I've been building PCs since 1988 and I have never seen a CPU fail to function correctly. The only people who can kill a CPU are high-end competitive overclockers and they kill motherboards far more often than CPUs.

If I had to guess, I would say that your motherboard is the most likely culprit. The odds of it being a CPU problem are so small that even getting ten defective sets of RAM in a row would be more likely. I honestly believe that the problem is with your motherboard. Of all the core components (CPU/RAM/MOBO), motherboards are the most likely to fail. CPUs are by far the least likely PC component to ever fail or be defective.

That's odd. My motherboard was able to recognize the ram on Channel B when I had the R7 2700X on the motherboard whenever I populated them with the A channel ram, but then the RAM on Channel would be hardware reserved due to me breaking a few pins initially figuring out how to straighten them before I decided to use a razor blade.

 

[Avro Arrow]

That's odd. My motherboard was able to recognize the ram on Channel B when I had the R7 2700X on the motherboard whenever I populated them with the A channel ram, but then the RAM on Channel would be hardware reserved due to me breaking a few pins initially figuring out how to straighten them before I decided to use a razor blade.

You broke some pins?

 

[FireAntX10]

You broke some pins?

Unfortunately for my Ryzen 7 2700X, yes I have. I did so trying to straighten them with my fingers since it was my first processor four years ago (and it was my first time building a pc, at that.). 🙁 I've since found more feasible method to straighten the pins on the cpu.

Nevertheless, thank you for your time, Avro.