Asus P6T & Intel Core i7 920 vs Asus Crosshair IV Formula & AMD1055T

[rafarataneneces]

Hello. Long story short. I had Nvidia Quad SLI (2xGTX 295) with Intel Core i920 and 1000 watt power supply

The whole system failed, motherboard fried, and Soundblaster fried because of the heat. I am not 100% if the heat damaged the motherboard, but I can't say it didn't. What I do know is heat damaged the soundcard.

After 4-5 months, the power supply started making a lot of noise, then is when I decided to sell everything I can.

Anyway, I was disappointed with technology and decided to aim for the cheap components market, since the high end is expensive and produces a lot of noise/heat. I ended up using a Netbook that was enough to check email and program. After that I switched to Intel Core 2 Duo, which overclocked well.

Anyway, my motivation for high end computers returned last month when I heard about the 6 core for $200 from AMD. Now I got a motivation to invest in technology again, and I decided to go with:

Asus Crosshair IV Formula with the 890FX chipset. It also includes Soundblaster sound

Anyway, I had the opportunity to buy the motherboard, so I took it, and now I have a great AMD Phenom II X6 1055T that performs GREAT in Adobe Premiere CS5.

Adobe Premiere CS5 is the main reason I changed from Intel Core 2 Duo, since exporting a video was a 40 minute task, now it takes 5 minutes

I don't play too many video games now a days, but once in a while I'll play, I really want to play Starcraft II this summer

However, I send my old and damaged Asus P6T Deluxe motherboard to Asus, and tomorrow I should get a brand new (or repaired, but I seriously doubt they were able to repair a motherboard that wouldn't even turn on) motherboard.

I was expecting to get nothing in return, since damaging a motherboard with heat or short circuit is supposed to be my fault, but again, I have no idea what damaged the motherboard.

Anyway, if I want I could build a system with Intel Core i7 920 or 930, and be happy with Intel

Here is a comparisons of the motherboards/processors

ASUS Crosshair IV Formula

Here are the things I like
Great for Adobe Premiere CS5
6 Cores
Great overclocking (I overclocked from 2.8Ghz to 4.0Ghz)
Great bang for the buck
Backwards compatible (I can install: AMD Socket AM3 Sempron 100/Athlon II X2/X3/X4 and Phenom II X2/X3/X4 Processors)
BIOS updates: I know that my 1055T processor runs on AM2 motherboard, with a simple BIOS update. So, for the next generations of Bulldozer processors, I guess AMD will do a lot of efforts to make it backwards compatible.

Things I don't like
no Nvidia SLI support

Now, let's go with

Asus P6T Deluxe
Here are the things I like
CrossFireX and SLI support
Intel Core i7 920 and 930 are great processors

Things I don't like
It's not compatible with Intel Core 2 Duo, Intel Core 2 Quad, Intel Core i3, Intel Core i5 processors
I mean, Intel Core i5 was released AFTER Intel Core i7, but still, it's incompatible.
The motherboard will be really useful for the next 6 months, then Intel will come again with a brand new processor (Sandy), and expect the end users to get rid of our current motherboards, call Microsoft to beg them to let you continue using the Windows you bought with your new mobo.
So, right now the motherboard is worth $200, after 6 months maybe someone will give me $50, since nobody cares about the old technology anymore, and in 6 months or so this will be old/cheap technology


So, my main questions are,

1) Why is AMD backwards compatible?
2) Why is Intel so ridiculous with their incompatible chips? I have 2 options, 920 or 930, then all I have is +$500 processors.
3) Why is the Asus Crosshair IV Formula compatible only with CrossFireX and not with SLI? Can a BIOS update fix that? The ASUS P6T Deluxe has support for SLI and Crossfire, why not the Formula?
4) Is there anything from Nvidia that ATI doesn't has? I saw a Nvidia 3D Vision demo yesterday at Fry's, and I was not impressed. I haven't played Batman with Physx ON yet, I heard it's good, but not good enough to chose Nvidia over ATI.
5) Is there any way to change/upgrade my Asus Crosshair IV Formula to the Asus Crosshair IV Extreme (if that ever comes out). the Extreme motherboard should have Lucy GPU processor, and that should allow me to have Nvidia SLI, ATI CrossFireX, or even mix Nvidia with ATI (which sucks, because it's software based, not hardware based).
6) is there a third party hardware chip that will allow me to have Nvidia SLI?
7) Can I buy an AGEIA Physx card and a modded driver that will allow me to have ATI Crossfire + a Physx card?
Or maybe an ATI Radeon 5850 + Physx, that would be cool
8) Can I install a Mod or the 257.15 Nvidia beta drivers to have the ATI Radeon 5850 as the main video card and AGEIA or Nvidia as the Physx card?


I also heard that Physx is a technology that will eventually die, so that will leave Nvidia 3D Vision as the only thing from Nvidia that ATI doesn't has.

Right now, I have an Nvidia GTX 470, so far I like it, but as always I have to take care of the temperature. Today I was benchmarking Crysis and since the CPU wasn't overclocked, the GPU reached 100C and the fan started kicking in randomly.

Here is a comparison of ATI vs Nvidia

ATI
I like the heat, 40C iddle, 77C full load
I like the bang for the buck. ATI Radeon 5850 was better than a GTX 285 and when it was released, the GTX 285 was $400 and the Radeon 5850 was $300.
I like the ATI Eyefinity idea. Right now I only have one monitor, but I could have 3 monitors one day, or at least 2. It would be nice to have 2 monitors for Adobe Premiere CS5. One for editing, the other for the preview window.
I really doubt I have space in my desktop (or money to buy 3 monitors, but the idea is great.
I would rather have 3 monitors than 3D in order to play games.


NVIDIA
I don't like the heat, 40C iddle, 100 full load. However, with EVGA Precission Utility, I can set the fan to 60% always, and control the fans with Hotkeys, it works great. If I start with 60% fan (instead of auto), I can run Crysis at around 80C, which is only 3C more from ATI.

I like the profiles for each and every game, the Nvidia control center is much more better than ATI's

I like the 3D vision, although I wasn't impressed with the games, it will be nice to play a Blu-Ray movie on the computer, upconvert it from 2D to 3D, and watch the movie in the living room.

I like Physx, although I haven't really used it, the idea of GPU computing physics polygons sounds nice. If a GPU and do graphics and calculations, then I thing it's a great idea



Now, let's be honest here. I am not an Nvidia fan, basically because you have to take a lot of control of the GPU temperature, I feel like I'm more worried about the GPU not reaching 100C than I am about playing the actual game.

However, I know the new Nvidia GTX 460 will come out soon, and it's supposed to be around $200 and compete with the ATI Radeon 5830.

Who knows, maybe there will be a time in the future when Nvidia will make sense again.

For example, for $300 you can buy GTX 260 SLI and get around 60-70 FPS in Crysis.
That GPU really escalates well, and I doubt it will damage my components like the horrible GTX 295

 

[tecmo34]

1) Why is AMD backwards compatible?

It is how AMD does business and their way of competing with the superior Intel Chips, when looking at Flag Ship to Flag Ship (not price to performance, which goes along with backwards compatible?

2) Why is Intel so ridiculous with their incompatible chips? I have 2 options, 920 or 930, then all I have is +$500 processors.

Because they are the KING and people will buy them even if it calls for the user to buy a new motherboard

3) Why is the Asus Crosshair IV Formula compatible only with CrossFireX and not with SLI? Can a BIOS update fix that? The ASUS P6T Deluxe has support for SLI and Crossfire, why not the Formula?

It is only integrated into the Intel Chipsets, not AMD or Nvidia chipsets. I believe it was a deal worked out between Intel and Nvidia.

4) Is there anything from Nvidia that ATI doesn't has? I saw a Nvidia 3D Vision demo yesterday at Fry's, and I was not impressed. I haven't played Batman with Physx ON yet, I heard it's good, but not good enough to chose Nvidia over ATI.

CUDA is the biggest thing that should benefit your uses, which ATI doesn't have. You mentioned the other differences.

5) Is there any way to change/upgrade my Asus Crosshair IV Formula to the Asus Crosshair IV Extreme (if that ever comes out). the Extreme motherboard should have Lucy GPU processor, and that should allow me to have Nvidia SLI, ATI CrossFireX, or even mix Nvidia with ATI (which sucks, because it's software based, not hardware based).

Without buying a new motherboard... not that I'm aware or!!

6) is there a third party hardware chip that will allow me to have Nvidia SLI?

Not that I'm aware of or come across

 

[rafarataneneces]

tecmo34 you rule
Ok, so I got my brand new ASUS P6T Deluxe motherboard now

from what I understand, I can ONLY have SLI if I have Intel, but again, I already have an Intel Core 2 Duo motherboard, an Intel Core i7 motherboard, and I don't want to use my new Asus P6T Delux motherboard for 6 months until it becomes obsolete.

Does anybody knows if Sandy will require a new motherboard? I assume so

Anyway, speaking about CUDA, will that help me with Adobe Photoshop or Adobe Premiere?
Any other applications?

If that can help me, then I guess I can select Nvidia over ATI

Now, it sucks that I don't have Nvidia SLI, but hey, for $300, the 1090T processor, is comparable to the $500 Intel CPU, so again, speaking about 'bang for the buck', that's an offer I cannot let down

I know that in video games and other stuff the Intel Core i7 930 will beat the 1090T, but in things that do intense multi threading, like Adobe Premiere CS5, the 6 processors really beat the crap out of Intel

So, I guess I will stay with my Asus+AMD combo, it's pretty sweet, especially when I don't have to change my motherboard every 6 months.

Now, Nvidia vs ATI, that's still in debate

I used to be an Intel fan, when they had the 775 socket. Intel Core 2 Duo, Intel Core 2 Quad, Intel Core Extreme, it was all there, and one motherboard allowed a wide variety of chips.

Now, you will need 4 motherboards, if you want to use Intel Core 2 Quad, then jump to a Intel Core i5, then to a Intel Core i7, and then to the new Sandy processors

Maybe I'll return to Intel in a few years, for now, I'd say the AMD processor is really powerful for $200 (1055T) or for $300 (1090T)

 

[tecmo34]

from what I understand, I can ONLY have SLI if I have Intel, but again, I already have an Intel Core 2 Duo motherboard, an Intel Core i7 motherboard, and I don't want to use my new Asus P6T Delux motherboard for 6 months until it becomes obsolete.

You do have an option for SLI on AMD, you just don't have an option for SLI/Crossfire on the same board. If you want Nvidia, I would go with this motherboard... MSI NF980-G65 AM3 NVIDIA nForce 980a SLI HDMI ATX AMD Motherboard, which supports the X6 with the latest BIOS.

Does anybody knows if Sandy will require a new motherboard? I assume so

Yes... Intel Sandy Bridge to Introduce New Sockets, Chipsets, Reorganize Platform Further

Anyway, speaking about CUDA, will that help me with Adobe Photoshop or Adobe Premiere?

It looks like CUDA is supported by CS. Here is a good site to learn more about CUDA... http://www.nvidia.com/object/cuda_home_new.html

I know that in video games and other stuff the Intel Core i7 930 will beat the 1090T, but in things that do intense multi threading, like Adobe Premiere CS5, the 6 processors really beat the crap out of Intel

Here is a good set of benchmarks between the i7 920/930 and 1090T... http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/146?vs=47

 

[apache_lives]

All this sounds like a load of crap

There is no such thing as future proofing for motherboards - AMD is worse then intel if anything - Socket 940 -> 939/754 -> 940 (AM2 - not compatible) - AM2+/AM3 - pffftttt.

Not to say Intel is any better - Socket775 has like a million sub-revisions that confuse everyone.

Your board has a 2 year warranty - you going to keep it that long?

 

[rafarataneneces]

Oh dear, I bought the ASUS Crosshair IV Formula and ALL the motherboards at Microcenter (100% of them), only support CrossFire, I wasn't sure there was such thing as an nForce chipset on an AM3 computer

so, it looks like I do have to chose between ATI and NVidia

I know the newest beta driver will allow me to use Nvidia and ATI on the same motherboard

What do you think about that?

I can have an ATI Radeon 5850 for the video games, and use a cheap Nvidia GTS 250 for dedicated PhysX

I know I can do that with the latest drivers, they said it was a mistake, however, I don't know if Nvidia did that on purpose or they are going to 'unlock' PhysX when a ATI card is detected

Cheap shot anyway

So, can I use the GTS 250 for PhysX + CUDA, and use the ATI Radeon 5850 (or the ATI Radeon 5830, or even the ATI Radeon 5770) as the main graphic card?

I remember when I had GTX 260 SLI and then GTX 295 Quad SLI, the performance was usually increased in 60-65%

Only a few games like Crysis really escalated well and achieved almost 90%, but in general terms, I would rather just have one very good graphic card and avoid the issues with SLI or CrossfireX

I remember for example World of Warcraft, the SLI was useless, it was literally 5% of the SLI.
that is with a Quad GTX 295 SLI

Besides, I promised myself I will never ever ever use Nvidia SLI again since having 2 bricks that can reach 100C each is basically placing my motherboard and CPU in risk of damage

My AMD 1055T runs really cool at 30C-60C, I don't want to imagine how hot it will get with 2 bricks running at 90C each.

I have been testing the Nvidia GTX 470 lately, if I put the fan at 60% every time the system starts up, it will run cool and quiet at around
60C

then, when I benchmark with Crysis, it will go up to 80C, I might have to change the fan speed to 70% though.


Overall, I am happy with the Nvidia GTX 470, I might use it in order to avoid having 2 cards

However, the ATI Radeon runs at 70C load, I live in California, 100F over here, so anything I can do to lower the temperature of my room, I'll do it

However, the Nvidia GTX 470 runs iddle at 60C, that's not hot for a video card

Do you know if you can flash the BIOS of the NVidia GTX 470 so that it will ALWAYS run at 60% fan speed, and escalate automatically from there?

I think it's pretty stupid that Nvidia only starts to use the ventilator when the brick reaches 100C, I've never liked that about their cards
Thanks God there is EVGA precision tool

 

[rafarataneneces]

All this sounds like a load of crap

There is no such thing as future proofing for motherboards - AMD is worse then intel if anything - Socket 940 -> 939/754 -> 940 (AM2 - not compatible) - AM2+/AM3 - pffftttt.

Not to say Intel is any better - Socket775 has like a million sub-revisions that confuse everyone.

Your board has a 2 year warranty - you going to keep it that long?

To be honest with you I liked Intel before, Socket 775 seemed pretty solid to me

Then they came with Intel Core i7, which wasn't backwards compatible, and only had Intel Core i7 920 as the processor I could afford. I can't pay $500 for a processor.

Then they came up with Intel Core i5, which uses yet another mothearboard.

Then is when I became upset with Intel change of motherboards. I know there is a new super cool Intel Core i5 870k or something like that, with unlocked multipliers. So I thought "hey maybe I can buy that new CPU for my ASUS P6T Deluxe"

Well, guess what, I can't because even though my technology is superior, I can't use that chip, since it's not for my socket.

So people who invested in cheaper technology now have a better processor than me?
Unless I come up with $500 in cash?

Sorry, but I don't see how is Intel better than AMD in keeping my pocket and my wallet happy

 

[rafarataneneces]

It looks like CUDA is supported by CS. Here is a good site to learn more about CUDA... http://www.nvidia.com/object/cuda_home_new.html

Well, speaking about CUDA, when I had GTX 295 QUAD SLI, I downloaded Badaboom, and converted a video with the power of my GTX video cards

I was disappointed, I remember my Sound Taxi application converting the same video in 50% of the time.

I want to know if Adobe Premiere CS5 allows CUDA, if it does, they I might go with Nvidia

This competition is getting interesting...

Ok, I think I'm going to use Nvidia GTX 470
Here is a picture of the video card that I want, I want the card on the right, does anybody knows it's model and how to get it?

From what I read, playback on Adobe Premiere CS5 should be greatly enhanced by using the Mercury engine, which uses CUDA.
and I'm not spending the expensive Quadro cards

I think I'm going to buy the Nvidia GTX 470 (as a matter of fact, I already bought it and I've been testing it for a week or so)

Check out this video at YouTube, I'm really sold on the idea
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xso6CGdsl2c

However, I am still not convinced about SLI. For example, in Adobe Premiere CS5, all the CUDA processors from the second graphic card will be wasted, since SLI does not enables the extra CUDA cores for applications such as Adobe Premiere CS5

Overall, I think

AMD 1055T overclocked at 4.0 GHz
AMD 1090T overclocked at 4.2Ghz
Nvidia GTX 280 or superior

will make a very nice rendering video/editing machine.

The economy is down anyways, so I doubt my GTX 470 will be useless in a year or so, hopefully it will deliver good performance for 18 months or so
that one has PhysX, CUDA, 3D Vision, DX11... so I really hope it's a good decision.

I hope i knew I was going to pick Nvidia 2 weeks ago, but hey, all Microcenter had was CrossFire and I had NO IDEA SLI wasn't available in all of AMD's motherboards, I thought, as long as it has 2 or more PCI Express lanes, then it should work.

Anyway, with the importance of CUDA in Adobe Premiere CS5, I really don't care about SLI too much

first of all
1) I already damaged my expensive Sound Blaster Fatal1ty soundcard thanks to SLI
2) I already damaged my ASUS P6T Deluxe motherboard
3) SLI is never 100% increase. It was 5% to 80%. I would say average it was around 60% increase
4) the idea of having 2 bricks at 90C-100C each is not good.
5) I would need a 800 watt power supply to run SLI. The power supply will produce a lot of heat

I do like eVGA precision utility and that kind of 'solves' the issue, but to be honest, Nvidia should do something to make sure their cards idle at around 60C and load at around 80C, without us, the end-users, controlling the fans manually

I don't know, I like the idea of SLI, and I do sort of regret not buying a AM3 motherboard with SLI, that would be the best of the best

but, if I have a lot of cash next year, I might change to a 800 watt power supply that supports SLI and a motherboard that supports SLI as well.

However, I would chose less power if that keeps my room at a nice temperature.

As a final though, I do like SLI, but if that implies extra heat, I couldn't care less about SLI

With that said, if someone knows how to run Nvidia GTX 470 SLI without adding extra noise (if you compare it to a 600 watt power supply) or heat (I remember I had 4 fans inside my GTX 295 SLI monster, and they would still get extra hot), then please, let me know, that would be awesome

Today I learned that you CAN have SLI and AM3 in one mobo, that is the best of both worlds.
Today I also learned you CAN have ATI for games and NVidia for Physx and CUDA, that would be really nice
and today I also learned that my motherboard is not SLI compatible

To be honest, I haven't been 'planning' on using SLI since March 2009, when my motherboard and soundblaster fried thanks to SLI

Thanks guys for all your support, I am super excited now with Nvidia GTX 270, Adobe Premiere CS5 with CUDA, and AMD 6 processors (overclocked at 4.0Ghz)

Video Editing is the main thing in my website, and I want to dedicate the next year of my life almost 100% to video editing, so all these questions are extremely important to me