athlon run out of steam !

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second half of '2001, Intel will surely lead with its 2 GHz 0.13 micron Pentium-4.
AMD doesn't have anything to beat it, because athlon architecture will run out of steam and cannot achieves any higher clockspeed.
intel will take back the speed crown.
do you agree
 
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Need I say it? ...

Morgan and Palomino!

Finally, AMD's gonna crunch in on the Xeon as well ... up to 2 MB if Cache!

Every intel proc is -way- overpriced compared with their AMD counterparts, will be interesting to see how well the AMD server proc will fare vs. the Xeon.

For the power you get for your dollar, I do not see Intel beating AMD anytime soon. I don't care to jump on the fastest-MHz bandwagon, not from AMD, and certainly not from Intel. Intel's making major bonehead moves ... need I remind you of their attempt to get the PIII above 1 GHz!? And the MTH disaster resulting in their forced enslavement to Rambus? Intel processors and chipsets just aren't reliable anymore.
 

leonov

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I am never sure if people like you are just trying to cause an argument or not. From the stats we have now including directly from Intel it looks like the Athlon 1.2GHz on 133MHz SDRAM will about match a P4 1.5GHz. Adding DDR RAM to the Athlon platform increases performance by around 10%. Add the higher clock speed of the Mustang cores, larger cache, better branch predictor and you will probably have a platform where an Athlon 1.1GHz will often beat a 1.5GHz P4. However even if we disragrd the other improvements it would only take a 1.6GHz Athlon to match the 2GHz P4.

Yes these figures are somewhat conjectural but they have more backing them than just saying faster clock=better processor.

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Hey,

I love it when you have some majorly unifomred Intel users. AMD is working on the 1.6ghz Athlon, and possibly higher. Not to mention that the slower clocked K7's with DDR should be able to beat the higher P4's.

Timothy Stankus
One of the First AMD Athlon Users =)
 
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Buy AMD!
I want my stock value to go up!!!!:>)
That,and their better, of coarse!
 

agriffin

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Check out this URL

<A HREF="http://www6.tomshardware.com/column/00q3/000903/bb-04.html" target="_new">http://www6.tomshardware.com/column/00q3/000903/bb-04.html</A>

I take just about everything Toms pages say as gospel truth. I've been reading the site for near 2 years now and can't, for the life of me, remember them being totally wrong about something. Their benchmarks are highly unbiased and run under scientific conditions. If they show a chip to be slower for various reasons, whether I understand it or not, it has always stayed that way.

<font color=purple>In the article they explain why the P4 is and will be slower then the AMD counterparts. I haven't yet read up on what IPC performance is yet, but I'll wager my first born that Tom's is correct. It truly appears that Intel is playing the clockcycle game. We know that works for the deadhead consumers....but those who are informed....are noticing. Namely us...and we are a growing breed. Once AMD shows it's power on the server front I truly think you'll see a new leaf turned over in the business world, where they aren't afraid of AMD anymore. More over, the people that build network systems usually fall in line with us tech heads. They read the reviews and check out the benchmarks, they'll go with the performance leader despite the clockcycle race.</font color=purple>

<b>The wait and see game is definately in effect again. I think Intel will again come out with mud on their face and AMD will take another step ahead in the wonderful world of microprocessing!</b>
 
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If there is one thing that I know, it is that Intel can talk. Wait for the solid evidence. I happen to support AMD, because they have a better product at a better price. Evidence shows that 1.2 GHz is about as fast as the 1.5 P4 will be. Since we can't say what will be faster in the future, let's draw in past history to answer the question- AMD will produce the goods.
 
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Hey,

All AMD has to do is get the DDR boards out, and the Mp chipset for power crazy user like me. Oncwe both these are out people looking to build more powerful computers will look to AMD. Even with the news that Intel will be doing what AMD did (Intentionally though). Athlon users got going with slot a but amd determined quickyl to switch to a socket. Intel has come out and said if you buy now 1 year down the road you'll be stuck. That should hurt their sales.

Timothy Stankus
One of the First AMD Athlon Users =)
 

Kerbear

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Pentium-4 coming out 13 days late so far and still counting, and still not reviewed by anyone I have heard of.
 
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Yes I do agree strongly that Intel will take back the speed crown and well hell with the 1.4/1.5 P 4's I duh!!!! think they already have. But let ye forget that the true performance leader in ability to out perform Intel is the Athlon baby the Athlon. So go praise your demon Intel god's with their 1.4/1.5 CPU's they perform like demon sh!t and leave the quality gaming to us Athloners. :smile:

:wink: <font color=red>Im</font color=red><font color=green>Em</font color=green><font color=blue>PeD</font color=blue>
 

jollygrinch

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i'm not saying that amd will always be better than intel but for now price/performance intel can't hold a candle. evidence in numerous tom's (and other) reviews. including the one he just put up about the celron 766. i made a promise in the "intel going for amd's balls" post that someone put up in this forum. and i stand by it.

btw--if the sledgehammer is 64bit that would count as new architecture...more steam.
 

Rop

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I strongly belive that AMD will be very hard to beat. I do not belive that the early P4 will do the trick. Then again Intel has all the money necesary to produce a Athlon killer. Though i doubt it would be done by next year, i do expect something to come up from Intel in the future that might.

On the other hand AMD has finally proven to us that they can do the job very well. And they might have a secret ace up their sleves for a just in case scenario.

Myself even though i currently LOVE my Tbird, i dont care if it is Transmeta that brings the biggest and badest chip to the market in the future. Just offer it at a good price/performance ratio and i will line up to get one :)

Why do I use LINUX ? Cause its the BEST OS
Why do I use Windows? Cause its the BEST Nintendo..
 
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Intel cannot beat Athlon for at least 1-2 years, and then AMD will have ramped Claw Hammer. As long as AMD can get another FAB quickly and not make any major mistakes they are looking good. Intel is too far behind and are too big a company to make any quick gains. All that is left for Intel is a slow and agonizing demise.
 

Diablo

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I thinl that the success of the P4 will strongly depend on the software that will be developped for it. We must not forget that the p4 is a new architecture and current operating systems aren't optimized for it. So I think AMD will be the performance leader for now. Let's wait and see...

:cool: Visit me at <A HREF="http://casemod.tripod.com" target="_new">http://casemod.tripod.com</A> :cool:
 

machow

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Debate something about <font color=green>AMD</font color=green> and <font color=blue>Intel</font color=blue>, you get 14 replies in 12 hours :smile: .

Facts, benchmarks, whatever aside, I think Intel is getting into a lot of trouble. Rambus deals, call back of 1.13GHz P3s, delayed Itanium, and then delayed P4, this adds up to a really grim situation for Intel. The only reason they are staying alive is that most users still believe Intel chips are better no matter what, and they blindly believe that. No I'm not saying they are bad, just not as revolutionary compared to the days when they monpolized the chip industry. I really love to see some competition in this business because they make better chips.

Yes companies have highs and lows, but sometimes it got so low that a company could die. However since Intel is producing all high-end chips (Xeons) and AMD has just pulled out from Mustang, it will still stay afloat. However it will loose ground on PCs as users get more recommendation to go for alternatives (AMD).

Sorry for being biased, but things has to be looked at <i>different perspective</i> to get the whole picture.


Smart guys are not smart; they only see things in different perspective.
1st <b>member</b>!
 
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let's all slow down a bit and not resort to partisan bashing.
First, talking about P4 performance at this point is a waste of time. Every benchmark availible now was done on an engineering sample, so the scores are not indicative of the true performance of the chip. Remember the early Athlon benchmarks (the whole Shakry's thing anyone?), where early reports indicated horrible performance, which completely changed when release parts were tested. So P4 performace is an unknown right now. That said, I think it is reasonable to assume from the architecture of the chip that it is not going to be the world's best chip, in terms of raw performance. Intel's design team made a bunch of tradeoffs in building the chip, which resulted in a longer pipeline and higher latency (ie, lower performance in most apps) in return for a much higher ramp. Which means that clock for clock, the Palomino is going to clean the P4's clock, but the P4 is going to ramp higher. I would bet that benchmark number between the fastest AMD and Intel offerings remain pretty much even, despite the disparity in clockspeed.
Second, the athlon architecture is not out of steam by a long shot. 1.2 was a true speedgrade, no voltage tweak. Which I would bet means that the current core will go to at least 1.4 with voltage tweeks and huge heat-disipation. Then you throw the Mustang core into the equation. With it's improved heat disipation, I would say that it will hit 1.6+ And then there is the Hammer core which is coming along nicely (at least according to AMD), and which should scale much higher.
Third, it doesn't matter if AMD outperforms Intel, because Intel will always outsell AMD. For at least the next 20 years. It all comes down the fab space. So technically, as long as Intel can keep the Mhz up and the chips flowing off the belts (something they have not been able to do recently), they will be able to dominate the market. Period.
Fourth, I think the emphasis on MHZ is going to end soon. 2GHZ is coming up much to fast after 1GHZ and people are going to start getting frustrated and confused. No one is going to be excited about 2GHZ, it is just going to be one more number. So I think that actual performance is going to start mattering more. In that case, maybe Alpha will finally sell. hehe.
That's all for now.

CrimsonCor
 
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AMD get up a fab quickly? Uhm, a quickly built fab takes several years to build at best. Look at Dresden. By the time AMD gets a new chip fab built, will be talking about 3 and 4ghz chips.
Intel is a huge company. Intel can make lots of mistakes for every success. Guess who still sells the most chips? Intel. Why? Cause they are big. P4 is going to be a good selling chip, especially since it is going to have a DDR chipset soon after launch (even if it is a VIA chipset). But what everyone overlooks is the .13micron P!!! Currently, the P!!! is the fastest chip availible in terms of speed grade comparison (AMD is ramped higher, but at 1GHZ, P!!! beats Athlon in everything but pure FPU). When the .13 P!!! hits the market, it is going to give Intel an amazing low end chip, once which is going to compete very well with Palomino and Morgan. And Mckinley is taping out well too in the high, high end market. Intel is nowhere near dead. AMD is the company with problems. They executed nearly perfectly with the Athlon and still have a low-market share. If the Hammer core fails, AMD will be nearly dead. If the P4 core fails to win market acceptance, Intel will go on. I love AMD and I love their chips. I am just realistic enough to realize that Intel is going to be with us for along time. Let's all just hope that AMD makes it too.

CrimsonCor
 

machow

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AMD <i>loves</i> hiding behind bushes and play checks out of the blue. Remember 1.13GHz Pentium? They know they have 1.2GHz out and ready, but they do not want to show it to the world yet. Intel at 0.13micron? No big deal. AMD is playing silently behind the game. I'm sure they are cranking up their R&Ds, 95% ready for that technology. Or 100%. By the time Intel gets P4 ready, the 0.13AMD would be out too. Just watch.


Smart guys are not smart; they only see things in different perspective.
1st <b>member</b>!
 
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I have serious doubts that Intel can even produce a 2ghz P4. Also I doubt that the P4 will be able to beat the Athlon on IPC. Athlon has a tremendous lead over Intel. They are in the position to take a lot of market share away from Intel.
 
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Maybe Intel will have the MHz crown, but i don't believe that it will get it's performance crown back. Intel sat on it's ass for too long. Playing jokes with it's customers. And now i see what's going on behind the scenes and start laughing. :)
 

Rosco

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Just as there are four cylinder motors today that put out more horsepower than V-8's of thirty years ago the Athlon may not have the advertised gigahertz of a pentium but I prefer to look at the performance baby!
 
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I don't care who has the crown as long as it is close and we get faster kit for less money...

M
 
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AMD can only take share away from Intel based on production.

If AMD can only produce "X" number of processors and demand is "Y", then that is the Max share AMD can take. Intel will continue to lead market share now based purely on production capabilities. No matter what "crap" they produce, market demand will absorb it. They presently have a volume market, not a price/performance market. It doesn't even matter if the P4 is a "dog", they will sell every unit they produce. Remember Intel markets under the reality that "An 'Idiot Inside' is born every second."

Thermal Acceleration means 'Overclocking'
 
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This message is not even worthy of a reply, but your lack of belly-window warrants one.

AMD will never run out of steam, in fact is gaining market-share like nobody ever thought it would. If AMD starts making catchy commercials, then even the naive public will see the benefits of AMD. Perhaps if AMD used the Microsoft marketing (we can even sell dirt) team, then AMD would be everywhere.