ATI 4850 + WoW

[njalterio]

At any rate, if you're trying to suggest his hard disk is to blame for not being able to load a measly WoW texture, you're wrong. My phone could probably produce and render the texture just as fast. If you're trying to suggest that it's his computer's fault in any way that WoW is lagging, you're wrong. That machine can handle it. That leaves two factors left.

1.the internet connection
2.the speed/load of the server he connects to

If I played WoW on a 56k modem, it will lag.

Been there, done that.

For the billionth time, Lag and FPS drop are not necessarily the same thing!

FPS refers to the rate at which you can render an image.
Your network connection determines the rate at which you acquire information from the WoW server.

 

[frozenlead]

All of my experience tells me that the loss in his FPS is because of something that's outside of his modem. In this case lag and FPS loss are the same thing. There's nothing else to cause the loss in fps. In this case, also, it is beyond his control. Which i remember saying in the first place.

 

[nottheking]

OMG... for the last time... WoW DOES NOT drop in FPS depending on network connection... This is the most commonly stupid myth perpetuated by people on the internet about WoW. Its simple not true... Not in the least.

I'm going to kindly request that you excuse yourself from this conversation politely. I have gone to great lengths to explain WHY it is the case that, in fact, connection troubles can and DO reduce your framerate in an MMO, (plus of course the common-sense idea that World of Wacraft, for all its rabid fans, has 2001-era graphics largely similar to those of WarCraft III) yet you have opted to quote THE ENTIRE POST, and then just dismiss it as a "myth," clearly illustrating how much you know about what you're talking about. You're only fooling yourself at this point.

 

[pbrigido]

frozenlead, it is unfortunte you have came to that conclusion. Please do research on this topic. It is clearly apparent that you do not fully understand the differences between FPS and lag and how the two are connected.

Have you given consideration to the fact that his computer isn't losing FPS and is working properly? That is the result we have come to.

Let's keep beating it into their heads, njalterio. FPS and lag are totally different. When applied within the parameter of WoW, lag does NOT effect FPS...at all...never has...and if the WoW engine remains the same, it never will.

 

[pbrigido]

I'm going to kindly request that you excuse yourself from this conversation politely. I have gone to great lengths to explain WHY it is the case that, in fact, connection troubles can and DO reduce your framerate in an MMO, (plus of course the common-sense idea that World of Wacraft, for all its rabid fans, has 2001-era graphics largely similar to those of WarCraft III) yet you have opted to quote THE ENTIRE POST, and then just dismiss it as a "myth," clearly illustrating how much you know about what you're talking about. You're only fooling yourself at this point.

You have come to a false conclusion. Please reread my post on how to test this out. You will quickly come to the conclusion that lag does NOT effect FPS in WoW.

 

[frozenlead]

Have you given consideration to the fact that his computer isn't losing FPS and is working properly? That is the result we have come to.

I thought I stated that quite clearly.

Way back when he stated that when he turned his FPS dropped - what do you attribute this trouble to? You have not stated any sort of reason why. You simply say that the connection is not WoW's fault, and that the computer he's on isn't rendering the players fast enough.

Wait a minute, that contradicts what's in the quote! If his computer is too slow, which, might I add, it is not, then it is not working properly.

He stated, quite clearly, that he was losing FPS, and that when he turned he would lose them too.

And I was going to "test" your "theory" out, but then I remembered - WoW is a stupid game that not only must you pay for when you buy it...you have to pay for it to use it!

I refuse to pay for a game that renders bushes and trees by placing two flat textures at 90 degree angles from one another.

 

[pbrigido]

Again, please reread. We have come to the conclusion that his computer is not dropping FPS. It is performing normally. If you have seen me post anything other than that, please please quote me on it. I look forward to seeing it.

Additionally, you can download WoW free of charge. Of course it is just a demo version, but it will have everything you need to reach what is know as fact.

 

[frozenlead]

...I don't know what you're talking about. In the original post, he tells us the fps drops.

 

[pbrigido]

If you played WoW (which you may) you would realize that when you are in an area of high population, your FPS does drop. This is normal activity.

 

[frozenlead]

I took the time to re-read your posts, and all of them go in different directions. Some blame his machine, some just say it's not WoW's fault, some blame the WoW servers for being overloaded, on and on.

I played WoW for all of a week before I was fed up and disgusted, especially after I'd been glitched out of getting my character revived. I noticed lag in highly populated areas, yes. This means that either my connection was slow (which I assure you, it was not) or that the server was slow....which is what I'd said way back when in the first place.

 

[pbrigido]

What you may percieve as blame may be speculation as to the cause. As I have requested...please quote me on the contradictions. I don't think you will find any.

You have again missed the point. I'm sure the problem you were experiencing was lag, server lag. However, it did not change your FPS at all.

 

[njalterio]

I think the only way to settle this would be to have the experiment (I am not sure who initially suggested it.)

Artificially limit the bandwith allowed to WoW, and measure fps using FRAPS.
Lets see the results.

 

[pbrigido]

I agree. Once I get home from work, it will be among the first things I do.

 

[njalterio]

Something to consider, the OP said fps drops in big cities. I do not play mmorps at all so correct me if I am wrong, but why would being in a city require more bandwith than if he was anywhere else in the game? Is it because of all the other players in the area?

If his FPS dropped because of the network lag caused by the presence of many players in cities, then wouldn't it also drop during raids? Then again if FPS is dropping because of all the characters needing to be rendered (and not high bandwith demand) in cities, then it would also drop during raids.

Therefore, if his FPS do not also drop during raids, then both of you are wrong, since both of you seem to point to the presence of many players whether it is network limited or graphics limited. If his FPS do drop during raids, then what I am about to say is wrong, and one of you could still be correct.

The thing is, this issue seems to be unique to the city. What makes cities special from everything else (in terms of fps)? Like I said, I do not play mmorpgs. However I do like to play games like Neverwinter Nights, and Baldurs Gate. I remember from playing those games that cities were the most demanding environments on my system. Whenever I transitioned from one point in the game to a city, I would need to spend some of time loading the area.

Could the cpu or hard drive be responsible for this?

 

[frozenlead]

I'll do it too then. For good measure.

I think the discrepincy between us is what exactley is a drop in fps. I mean, it sounds simple, but if I'm pressing W and my character is moving, stopping, moving, stopping, that is a FPS drop, which is what happened when I played it. If it was running at 60fps, or even 30, it would not stop and go.

 

[pbrigido]

FPS is a simple definition. Frames Per Second. Meaning, how many frames does your computer render within 1 second. 60 is more or less the standard. If you are in an unpopulated area, such as the middle of the Barrens, you will hit 60 quite easily.

The fact that you actually consider the way your character moves about the screen with regards to user input is NOT FPS. That is LAG and not the topic of conversation.

 

[frozenlead]

If the two are not related, kindly tell me how it's possible to lag while still viewing games at a comfy 60fps.

 

[frozenlead]

Could the cpu or hard drive be responsible for this?

I don't think so. In higher games, yes...but in a lowly game like WoW? I don't think hardware that's made within the last 4 years could be put to blame for a crappy session of this game.

 

[frozenlead]

The fact that you actually consider the way your character moves about the screen with regards to user input is NOT FPS. That is LAG and not the topic of conversation.

You misunderstand what I said. When I mean my character was moving and stopping, the frame would halt for a brief moment, show me an updated image and halt, show me another and halt...I got similar things playing Halo on a Pentium II and a radeon 7500. Trust me...it's called low fps.

 

[pbrigido]

I never said you or anyone else will not experience lag with a high latency. That happens to everyone, even if they are directly connected to the server with a .000001 second latency. It just will be imperceptable. What was just described is all pertaining to lag, whether it is server or client side.

 

[frozenlead]

But you still didn't tell me how my FPS isn't dropping if I don't see 60 fps.

 

[pbrigido]

Not to sound rude, but I don't understand the question. Please rephrase.

 

[Liderc]

Lag(Latency), does not affect your FPS in WoW. Seems people are mixing terms in this thread. The reason you're having a drop in FPS in shattrath is because of how many images are being rendered everywhere you turn. The city is bloated with useless npcs and hundreds of people, each having different sets of gear that your computer has to grab from your HD's and render on your screen through your GPU. Since HD's are as we know the slowest part of our systems, this can cause lower FPS in populated cities like Shattrath.

I can understand the argument from the other poster about lag causing a drop in FPS because your system is waiting for it to be told what to render on your screen, but it's simply not true in WoW. In WoW if your system is waiting for input from their servers, it will actually Rise in FPS because there is less to be rendered on the screen, until the server sends the packet with the desired data to be rendered. Your FPS can then be affected by Lag(latency) because your system is trying to catch up by rendering multiple images at a time instead of gradually rendering a few as you come into contact with them.

Example: You fly into shattrath and run into the middle to A'dal, very little appears on your screen, your FPS is 60, a few seconds later, you receive ALL the packets that tells your computer what to pull from your HD's and render. As soon as your computer starts to render ALL of these images it should been rendering since you flew into shattrath, it starts to bog down and drops to mid 30's because it's having to render the guys you passed outside, the npcs that were walking by you when you flew in and now all the npcs you're facing on your current screen. This is when latency can affect FPS, but when your system finally catches up, your FPS will level out and be what it should have been on the initial entrance had every npc/person/image been rendered as you got off your mount.

99.9% of the time FPS and Lag(Latency) never affect each other.

As for your FPS in shattrath, it's a bit more CPU bound there, I run an 8800GT and get 60 fps everywhere but shattrath with my CPU at stock, I OC it to 3.2 and I gain about 15-20 FPS in shattrath. 8800GT, Q6600 2.4 I get about 35-45 max graphics with loads of people in shat just to compare.

 

[frozenlead]

You say that lag and FPS are seperate, and that you can lag without losing fps. I don't know how that's possible. My argument is that they're tied together; when one goes, the other goes.

 

[pbrigido]

They are not...please understand that. In WoW, they are not even remotely tied together.