ATI Inferior to NVidia?

[yourmothersanastronaut]

And at ATIs heatsink blows the air out of the back of the case instead of inside like Nvidias.

Hmmm... That looks like it doesn't blow out the back. Also looks like it's an ATI-manufactured card. And it's an X1900 - that means they run a little on the warm side. I'm not saying you're wrong about that...the picture speaks for itself.

Yes, both manufacturers have their problems. Both manufacturers make cards that have single and dual slot solutions.

Both manufacturers release glitchy drivers at some point.

Both manufacturers have their crappy cards. It's the X1600XT for ATI, and the...well, I don't think nVidia has a crappy current-gen card out at the moment. Pretty much all of their cards cover their price/performance ratios pretty well.

 

[sojrner]

The final thing that sold me was the X1000's support of H.264 Hardware Acceleration

actually I think that Nv supports H.264 now as well, they just had to enable it in the drivers.

But you are right, they are about = and ati has that HDR+AA thing.

 

[kylewvu086]

My thought on the matter is...... its a matter of preference. The companies are too close to delcare a clear winner or outpreformer. I feel its more about options, EX. if you want to run dual cards, SLI is more effective than crossfire and is more widely accepted by mobo companies. But ATI does run well with all the settings maxed out. I have an Nvidia card now becuase of SLI capabilities, and at the time is was better than a ATI card of compariable price. Its too hard to tell.

 

[Gary_Busey]

Hmmm... That looks like it doesn't blow out the back. Also looks like it's an ATI-manufactured card. And it's an X1900 - that means they run a little on the warm side. I'm not saying you're wrong about that...the picture speaks for itself.

A better comparison would be to find an nVidia card that does blows air out of the case, instead of finding an ATI card that doesn't.

 

[kaotao]

I've owned several ATI cards over 5-6 years and haven't had any problems with their drivers. I actually perfer the monthly driver updates. I consider both Nvidia and ATI cards when looking to upgrade. I've just always gone with ATI. They both have their positives and negatives, but I wouldn't say one totally sucks and the other doesn't.

 

[melarcky]

well one things is you cant compare them because you have to think about the mid-range cards, and also really HIGH end cards and even the lower crap cards and then consider them all.. i personaly dont care if its ATI or NV, i have only had Nvidia cards beacuse thats how its had happend, and i have always been satisfied ( except the fx 5500.. WTF was WRONG WITH nvidea when they made the FX series?)
and dude you should have really never asked a Question like this because its going to be hundereds of FAN boys arguing.

 

[lcdguy]

well one things is you cant compare them because you have to think about the mid-range cards, and also really HIGH end cards and even the lower crap cards and then consider them all.. i personaly dont care if its ATI or NV, i have only had Nvidia cards beacuse thats how its had happend, and i have always been satisfied ( except the fx 5500.. WTF was WRONG WITH nvidea when they made the FX series?)
and dude you should have really never asked a Question like this because its going to be hundereds of FAN boys arguing.

I think the FX line was to pay off someones gambling debts, kinda like WINME j/k

i like to go with ati when i can since i like to support canaidan companiers, but i guess thats changed now eh.

 

[Rickler]

Complaint 3: Funny. When I had a 9800 Pro 128MB it worked great and was way better than the 5900 I had. Have you ever even owned an ATI card? Besides, I've found problems with Nvidia drivers too. Their latest release was telling me about how I couldn't enable SLI on my 256MB AGP 6200. And then it blue screened my computer one time. Software will never be perfect for anyone.

Why are you talking about 3 year old video cards? 5 series nVidia cards are the worst of nVidia. The ti 4 series performed better. I'm sorry you purchased a 5 series; but you are talking of nVidia from 2003-2004 during the plague of FX. This is 2006, nVidia has the best performance per dollar right now.

Complaint 2: Their cards currently run a little hotter since they haven't scaled down their process like Nvidia did. But the release the X1950 series will change that. And at ATIs heatsink blows the air out of the back of the case instead of inside like Nvidias. So your arguement is incorrect. If anyones cards heat up the inside of a case at the moment, its Nvidias.

Clearly ATI cards are already at 90nm like nVidia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_ATI_Graphics_Processing_Units
They run so hot because they are clocked to high in an attempt to keep up with nVidia.

The GTX's fan out the back; however, GT's don't need to use up dual slots to keep cool because they are basically GTX's with less memory and a lower clock. They run quite cool too, something you can not say for any single slot ATI high performance card.

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

Monday's edition of the Toronto Globe and Mail contained a review of AMD's acquisition of ATI. Journalist Shawn McCarthy quoted Rob Enderle of Enderle Group as saying that ATI graphics are inferior to NVidia. Enderle still thinks the acquisition a positive move overall [since AMD ends up with better graphics than Intel can provide with the Centrino platform].

Yeah I read that it was so obviously written by someone who knows very little about the industry other than the quarterly reports, and probably what his gaming buddy told him, and his buddy just happens to own/like nVidia gear or play an nV friendly title. Most of these guys could turn on AA in a game/driver, so they're not in a position to commment on quality.

I'm not entirely convinced that the characterization of NVidia as a perennial frontrunner is accurate; rather, I think a tug-of-war not unlike that between AMD and Intel for superiority, more closely describes the current state of graphics prowess.

Of course it's a tug of war, the only reason this author writes this is to him the graphics industry is 2-3 years old, he obviously missed the FX years, and then the GF4 years before it, etc. And if all he did was read press releases from both then you might come to that conclusion too, based on whether you like Green or Red. :roll:

ATI replacing NVidia as chipmaker for the Xbox last year [yes, I realize NVidia didn't have the best relationship with Microsoft],

Well and that's the thing I think ATi winning had alot to do with 2 things, for Xbox, nV and M$ were still arguing at the time of the decision and ATi and M$ had a better relationship.

But if you rememeber originally after Sony decided to not do all CPU graphics, they had considered ATi as their front runner, and that would've made it M$, Nintendo and Sony all using ATi for the consoles. But that doesn't speak to current quality so much as their R9700 success and their greater involvement in media and dedicated TV solutions, where yes ATi dominates over nV there; but it has little/nothing to do with the graphics segment, except for the niche All-in-Wonder and Cinema series cards, where really there's only been one winner between the two and ATi's competition come from Hauppauge, where you have a similar situation to graphics where each of those two do things better and differently than the other.

and the pronouncement by Microsoft at this year's WinHEC, that ATI shows off Vista best.

I wouldn't really worry about M$' statements, they're really only related to the early driver support, it's all still so beta, that it shouldn't really hold too much weight for this generation, they are closer than they are dissimilar. No clear winner, but since the balance sheet currently favours nV (didn't always) they are seen as the darling by people in the financial sector who don't knwo anything about the companies themselves or their products.

 

[yourmothersanastronaut]

A better comparison would be to find an nVidia card that does blows air out of the case, instead of finding an ATI card that doesn't.

Kay.

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

STFU n00b Fanboi!

They do suck, a whole load of air. ATI cards sound like jet engines.

Yet the GF7900GT is the loudest card currently.

ATI cards run hot,

But the GF7900s ran cooler, yet failed more do to overheating. Guess the ATis can handle the heat.

Also, The GF7900GX2 runs hotter than the X1900XTX, and more importantly...

turning cases into easy-bake ovens.

Except for the fact that all the waste hot air from the better ATi cards doesn't go into the case it goes outside, thus helping COOL your case, none of the nV cards eject all their wate air, the only one close is the GF7900GTX which does 50/50 sending 50% of it waste hot air back into the Case to warm your CPU/Memory and HDD, the hottest card the GX2 puts most of it's waste heat back into the PC. So who's turning the cases into easy bake ovens? Think you should learn the difference between methods of transmission of heat. Because unless it's radiation or a case of conduction along the PCB the ATi's aren't heating up the case as much as the nVs.

ATI drivers are just plain horrible.

Yet, nV has as many or more bugs;
http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/digest3d/0606/itogi-video-gallery-bugs.html

(unless you have a more current more complete list to prove otherwise, and no PR links please, credible review sites only).

Fact of the matter CCC still kinda sucks, but so does nV's attempt at .net drivers. Both have the options to use the non .net drivers, although nV still links directly too them. M$ prefers ATi's drivers, although IMO they aren't an objective party to ask.

Your statements reek of uninformed PR prattle. I suggest you find somewhere else to peddle your crap.

 

[Flakes]

*directed to everyone complaing about hot air in there case.

you guys are missing the point that ATI and Nvidia have several different card manufacturers make there cards, this means that some cards in the same family will blow air out the back and some wont.

for instance heres a 7800GTX 256MB card that blows air out the back,

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.shopbot.com.au/i/2006/2/65507144_small.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.shopbot.com.au/p-17821-256182.html&h=160&w=160&sz=4&hl=en&start=33&tbnid=Lkk-NKAULP-flM:&tbnh=98&tbnw=98&prev=/images%3Fq%3D7800GTX%26start%3D20%26ndsp%3D20%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3Dlang_en%26sa%3DN

and heres one that doesnt,

http://www.bjorn3d.com/photo/data/500/7800GTX-5.jpg


ATI HAD driver problems, they have now been fixed. It was actually the driver problems from ati that pushed me over to NVidia. the new drivers from nvidia are now getting on my nerves, they remind me that i dont have SLI everytime i start up my PC.

no one company is above the other they are both about equal.

 

[sojrner]

that one you say does, only does half of it... that is reference gtx.

 

[Flakes]

so it does

 

[Heyyou27]

Complaint 2: Their cards currently run a little hotter since they haven't scaled down their process like Nvidia did. But the release the X1950 series will change that.

Actually ATI does not have a die shrink planned for the X1950XTX; we won't se 80nm until the R600 refresh.

As to ATI being inferior to Nvidia, the only way I can see that is in the company itself compared to Nvidia; ATI is not worth as much as Nvidia and has a smaller yearly revenue. If anything ATI’s cards are superior to Nvidia’s, and I own Nvidia cards!

 

[yourmothersanastronaut]

none of the nV cards eject all their wate air, the only one close is the GF7900GTX which does 50/50 sending 50% of it waste hot air back into the Case to warm your CPU/Memory and HDD, the hottest card the GX2 puts most of it's waste heat back into the PC. So who's turning the cases into easy bake ovens?

Uhh, here's a GF7600GT that exhausts its air. Not that it runs that hot to begin with...

 

[Cabletwitch]

(General reply, not directed at TGGA. Too lazy to find the original poster)

ATI drivers are just plain horrible.

Oh boy, going back to the day when ATi drivers were nothing but hell... my last memory of having to deal with thta mess of badly coded pap was back in 99, when I used to work as a repair tech in Software Warehouse (Brits of 25 years or older might remember that).

Nowadays, I guess they've sorted it all out more, and havent got as many issues. But back then, it DID affect my choice of card, and I went the Geforce route. Up until now, I've never touched an ATi card, and I dont know if I will in the future. SLI is nice, and the nForce4 boards are pretty sweet.

I would have preffered it if AMD had bought nVidia, but hey, like anything we do on these forums actually does anything useful in the wide world of CPU's and GPU's.

Going back to the heat issue. If your case is adequatly ventilated, it should make much of a difference, as the airflow will be enough to disperse the heat produced by the GFX card/s anyway. If not, consider an intake on the side panel.

And as for noise? If you think its too loud, change the HSF, or use watercooling. Noise and Heat are lame arguments these days, when there are so many better aftermarket addons you can use to cancel out these disadvantages.

No doubt I'm going to get a few posts along the lines of "WTF?!?!?!!!" or "STFU noob/fanboi/lamer/whatever". Just try and be original if you have to flame, and dont make one-line posts proclaiming something, without actually explaining WHY you think that.

Right, burbling over. Back to the regularly scheduled crap as follows...

 

[yourmothersanastronaut]

AMEN.

And as for noise? If you think its too loud, change the HSF, or use watercooling. Noise and Heat are lame arguments these days, when there are so many better aftermarket addons you can use to cancel out these disadvantages.

Damn right, especially since manufacturers like eVGA let you swap the stock HSF for an aftermarket (and overclock it) without voiding your warranty.

 

[cleeve]

Both manufacturers have their crappy cards. It's the X1600XT for ATI, and the...well, I don't think nVidia has a crappy current-gen card out at the moment.

The X1600 XT performs a bit better than the 7600 GS for the same price, so it's actually a decent buy now.

Bad cards for the money... I'd put the X1900 GT, and 7800 GS on that list though.

 

[yourmothersanastronaut]

Right, I had forgotten about nVidia's GF7 AGP cards, I thought this was only for PCIe. Yeah, the 7600GS isn't really worth it, not when you can get a PCIe motherboard and a somewhat decent video card for just a little more.

I found a benchmark test where the 7300GT actually managed to best the X1600XT in a few tests, such as UT2004, Doom 3, and they tied in FEAR. The Radeon did have the upper hand in FarCry, however. If I find it, I'll post back.

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

A better comparison would be to find an nVidia card that does blows air out of the case, instead of finding an ATI card that doesn't.

Kay.

He said find one that blows air out of the case, not one that looks like an HIS solution but has plastic in front of the grills. Look at the fan placement, the air blows from the connector side INTO the case, not out of it. :roll:

It's a redundant argument if you're not looking at reference designs though since both have solutions better than reference, and both can add Arctic Cooling solutions which are better still.

Uhh, here's a GF7600GT that exhausts its air. Not that it runs that hot to begin with...

Look harder homer. :tongue:

 

[FITCamaro]

And at ATIs heatsink blows the air out of the back of the case instead of inside like Nvidias.

Hmmm... That looks like it doesn't blow out the back. Also looks like it's an ATI-manufactured card.

Thats an AIW card. Not really meant for gaming. Its clock speeds are even lower than those of the X1900GT. Don't compare gaming cards to media center cards.


To Heyyo27: You're right they didn't scale it down. But I believe they changed it so that it runs cooler and uses less power.

And Rickler: That was my point. That even 3 years ago their drivers were fine. And their cards were better than Nvidias then. Yes Nvidia responded and released something better, but then ATI bested them again. And Nvidia's cards are clocked just as high. The 7900GTX runs at the same clock rate and a slightly faster memory rate than the X1900XTX. Yes though, was wrong on the process of the X1900 series. Thought they were still on a higher one. As far as the 7900GT, while a good card, it doesn't run at the same level as either the X1900XT or the X1900XTX.

 

[cleeve]

I found a benchmark test where the 7300GT actually managed to best the X1600XT in a few tests, such as UT2004, Doom 3, and they tied in FEAR. The Radeon did have the upper hand in FarCry, however. If I find it, I'll post back.

Yeah 7300 GTs can be amazing little cards. The only problem is that there seems to be no standard clockspeeds... some vendors are clocking the snot out of them, others are coming in so low they're running like 6200s... but if you know what you're getting and do a little research, they can be good buys.

Although X800 GTO's can be gotten for under $100 in PCIe, which is also a geat cheapo solution.

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

for instance heres a 7800GTX 256MB card that blows air out the back,

Actually that one only blows 50% of it's air out the back, like I mentioned alread, it uses a central fan to force air along the fins in both directions 50% out 50% in.

The other is 100% inside.

no one company is above the other they are both about equal.

Exactly, and like I said if you don't like the cooling, you can always get something better from a 3rd party. Overal each had it's good and bad, and none are alone at the top, or the bottom (although VIA might now be alone at the bottom since XGI got killed and eaten :twisted: ).

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

Yeah 7300 GTs can be amazing little cards. The only problem is that there seems to be no standard clockspeeds... some vendors are clocking the snot out of them, others are coming in so low they're running like 6200s... but if you know what you're getting and do a little research, they can be good buys.

The thing is to know what you're getting. There were no GTs at launch, they were all plain GF7300s and GF7300GS, and they sucked, even when overclocked. They were better and worse than the X1300 dpending on the speed of the participants tough.
However NOW we have the GF7300GT which is not a GF7300 core, but a crippled GF7600, which was brought in to help bolster their presence in the segment. The GF7300 is now a good choice, like the GF7600GT is, but that's because it is the same great chip. 8)

Considering that the X1600 predates them all, it's not really fair to compare them as if the X1600 were a response to the others. The thing is though ATi's been siting on their duff the whole time, when from day one people were a little dissapointed with the X1600 series, and the price reflected that.