ATI Radeon 4800 Forces Nvidia To Make Price Cuts For GTX 260, 280

[roofus]

[citation][nom]magicandy[/nom]Anyone who buys the 260 is an Nvidia fanboy tool that is under the assumption that Nvidia and quality come hand-in-hand...........lol. There is absolutely no reason to buy the 260 over the 4870, even if they're the same price. The 4870 soundly beats it in every bench, and no EVGA upgrade plan could counter that (why would someone buy a lesser card with plans to replace it in under 90 days when there is no evidence a great card is coming in that time? Foolish and you're just looking for any reason to stick with Nvidia when they've clearly got an inferior product)Oh and don't forget the 4870's upcoming firmware that will supposedly allow it to surpass the 280. Even if it doesn't quite make it, it will still be a far better deal than the nearly-$300-more 280. This is also a reminder that ATI will be rolling out the 4870x2 which WILL destroy the g280 and be $100-200 cheaper. I'll be waiting for Nvidia fanboys like our friend on the first page to say they're still buying the lesser product at a higher price.[/citation]
I think you guys are wayyy over-stating and over-celebrating this momentary blip. I understand its like seeing snow in the desert for you guys but it doesnt mean someone is stupid because they dont agree with you. For my jabs that I have taken at ATI (most in the spirit of fun because its exciting to see competition again) I refrained from calling anyone stupid or ignorant for not seeing things my way. Is this a personality defect or is this a by-product of your ATI card that makes you so bitter?

 

[ZootyGray]

Well, I am a proud AMD fanboy and have always been impressed with ATI cards over many years. I am ethically opposed to ntel and nvidiot.

For years, I have watched nvid disrupt product launches, and it's great to see it all blow up in their faces - despite several serious disruption attempts very recently. Slap yourself silly.

This is a HUMBLY magnificent launch campaign for AMD/ATI as they have seized control with the gag order, then the 4850 succeeded by the 4870 - and STILL TO COME the 4870 x2. It's a parade! Next!

Beyond that, I think there is more. I expect driver updates, and oclok reports, prices like we are seeing here.

But I have also looked into the tek within these cards (see anand)(stream processors) and it looks like this might be only the beginning. I think ATI can go beyond what they have already, and I expect them to go there eventually (I mean like a 5xxx series or whatever). I am certainly no hardware engineer or like that, it's just that the tek looks like it has room for further refinement and growth.

Meanwhile the x2 card will be out soon and we can all party once again. Somebody mentioned a firmware upgrade, it seems obvious re driver improvements. This is a feast for a fanboy like me.

I am sorry you nvidiot employees/fangirls have your shorts all messed over this. You really should have known. tsk tsk. And you don't get it yet? Raining on an AMD/ATI parade is not nice - now go home and cry. O, and try to get the best deal for your voodoo cards. (sigh)

Yes, I think this is just a beginning of a new era. And even the recent phenom 9950 is starting to pursue ntel (see anand for that too).

Hilarious thread btw. Let the party continue YeeHaw!!!!

 

[roofus]

Another fine example of what to be expected from the ATI fanbase. Evidently the cards leak stupid all over their owners.

 

[VChuck]

STFU roofus and run along you Nvidiot.Your just embarrassing yourself now.apparently you just don't get it with your half baked statements.Sheesh!

 

[Elriond]

haha. Don't you just love how the ati fanboys all come out of the woodworks when ati finally comes out with a decent card. It's getting a bit ridiculous to even read through reviews anymore without finding some moron talking trash to nvidia or intel. I personally could care less for either company, but at least im objective in my views rather than blatantly obsessing over any particular company. If you assume i'm a fanboy because i'm still going to get the 260, you're wrong. I'm getting the 260 because i use an sli mobo and i'm not going to pay another $150+ just to get a crossfire mobo when the 260's are at the same price as a 4870 now.

 

[roofus]

They will go back into hibernation for another two years soon enough. They cant establish a point so they resort to attacks. There is nothing wrong with liking one brand over another. It is even fun to take swipes at eachother to a point but evidently there is some thin skin because they cant handle anyone thinking contrary to them. Enjoy it. I am.

 

[Guest]

Wow. Product loyalty is a really stupid thing. ATI was king until nVidia released the GeForce 6 series. Then, ATI's ship was pillaged, sunk, and burned. ATI is STILL inferior. It's catching up, but still behind. The point is to support whoever is best, not a certain company - go ahead you nVidia and ATI fanboys/fangirls, support your companies, and grimace in regret later when you realize you bought a product for company loyalty, not performance.

It's like buying an American car - the loyalty is pointless, as American cars are easily inferior to Japanese ones, at the moment. Earlier when Honda and Toyota were new companies, Japanese cars were pathetic, and American cars were the best.

You cannot argue with that. Doing so is plain stupid - currently nVidia does still have the best gaming card out there - the GTX 280. The HD 4870 in CrossFire only beats ONE GTX 280 SOMETIMES, and the price of the more expensive PSU and liquid cooling are for some reason never brought up when it comes to CrossFire or SLI talk. Plus, you're comparing one card versus two in this situation.

IMO, CrossFire and SLI are huge wastes of money for the time being, unless you're going at resolutions higher than 1920x1200 (which is something I personally do not favor doing).

- PR-0927

 

[VChuck]

Interesting ascessement there roofus,Elriond.Last time I checked (reality) that Old fathead Nvidia has been sitting on their laurels jacking up prices,Now hehe " crapping in their pants" as some one put it.(love that one) good luck to all who have their "SLI capable" mobo's
myself I won't go that route. seems as its more hype than reality.I also read that crossfire on the otherhand scales better than SLI(forums much more reputable than roofus).I don't care either way as I am not interested in anything other than a single GPU solution.Hey you think Nvidia with their partner's in financial distress (I Love it)can compete now? I just read that Gainward is now making available "Golden Samples" of the 4800 series card? (Oh what happened there roofus?)Oh I am having one hell of a time here too! (JOY!)

 

[VChuck]

PR-0927
Well said sir and must concur, I am just having a bit of fun,But Fuck Nvidia and their Draconian methods.understand completely what you stated,just want a little bit of fun is all with the Nvidia elitists here,little f'n bunboys.Muhar!

 

[Elriond]

[citation][nom]VChuck[/nom]Interesting ascessement there roofus,Elriond.Last time I checked (reality) that Old fathead Nvidia has been sitting on their laurels jacking up prices,Now hehe " crapping in their pants" as some one put it.(love that one) good luck to all who have their "SLI capable" mobo's myself I won't go that route. seems as its more hype than reality.I also read that crossfire on the otherhand scales better than SLI(forums much more reputable than roofus).I don't care either way as I am not interested in anything other than a single GPU solution.Hey you think Nvidia with their partner's in financial distress (I Love it)can compete now? I just read that Gainward is now making available "Golden Samples" of the 4800 series card? (Oh what happened there roofus?)Oh I am having one hell of a time here too! (JOY!)[/citation]

Do you honestly think Nvidia is in financial distress over this? Haha, there's no way i can see that company going down just because they lost the usual overpricing that there is when a newer card is released. I honestly love it when there's competition, it drives prices back to managable levels rather than staying high end when there's no contest on the cards. I for one don't believe a word about nvidia having financial difficulty considering they've been the better card maker for a while now and reaping all the cash benefits of that. They'd have to have the worst accounting department ever to go under just because ati is competing with their current line up.

 

[VChuck]

PR-0927 Damn just read your post a bit more clearly "ATI was king before Geforce 6 series"? WTF? you mean when Nvidia pulled support for H.264 support out for agp? THATS WHEN I M*&^%$ F'n really started hating Nvidia.
Fuck your a nv idiot too I see.

 

[Elriond]

By the way..

"NVIDIA is also predicting that its sales for the quarter ending July 27 will be approximately $875 million to $950 million, which is a bit lower than analysts’ expectations of nearly $1 billion. Who knows if the stock will continuing tanking in the morning, but it’s definitely going to be an interesting trading day."

Hahaha, they dropped 1/5th of what they expected to make for only 4 months. I'm not seeing a major problem just yet.

 

[ZootyGray]

hmmm...

looks like the nvidiots are starting to roadrage The thought of good money after bad for those poor people w sli mobos has not been mentioned that I have seen. That must get expensive at nvidiot prices.

Blow yer doors off for half price - LMAO. But you don't get that - yet. Not a problem; keep watching.

Probably cheaper to sell out and buy just one humble little ATI card - especially now that the fan preferences control the heat and noise levels according to your preference - things are normalized.

Now for the oclok possibilities - as we await the humble little x2 card.

And they are so cute too.
Ahhhh... why is the lil 4850 humping the 280 card - oic - he's parasitizing it. That's aggressive, isn't it? Wait until his big brother sees that!!

Must be those new beta drivers we fed him.

 

[ZootyGray]

O yeh - almost forgot.

Since AMD/ATI is =announcing= the launch of the x2, nvid should have a new rehashed launch in a few weeks - isn't that what they do?

Bring it beyatch. This way for pwnage.

 

[V3NOM]

err "GeForce GTX"? i thought it was nvidia GTX 2xx....

 

[royalcrown]

Why don't both sides "fanboys" stfu ! The 8800 series cards are great ! The 200 series kinda suck this ONE generation, big f'ing deal !

4000 series is great, so buy one; if you prefer the 200 series, buy that !

I don't see why the hell you guys are getting worked up, each company had had some products that were the best at the time.

2000 ati series sucked at launch
3000 hyped as NV killer..sucked and they had to go on the cheap and start the price/performance because they didn't kill anything.

NV 5000 series..pure crap
6-8 good minus the 84 and 8500's; 8800 was THE s##t.
200 series...not that awesome on "current" games...lol

I mean it's the same thing...sometimes each company has an AWESOME product, sometimes they are just so-so, and sometimes they both have complete and utter garbage...and it's always over hyped with a few exceptions like 8800 series or 4000 series.

Just STFU and admit whatever company you like doesen't ALWAYS make the best product, they both own each others products I bet and use that to one up each other sometimes.

It's fine to gloat sometimes, just do it on the actual merits of the card, or what you get for the price, but grow up and accept that it sometimes changes based on the actual product and not what company is "da best", or "pwnage"

It's like my rig here, the chip was by far the best for under 90 bucks at the time, but they suck for absolute performance, 780 series chipset rocks too, too bad I can't stuff Intel hardware in it, but unless AMD pulls a magic rabbit out of somewhere this fall, I'll prob go Nehalem and 4780 x2.

Buy what you like and what gives you awesome performance for what you can afford and just enjoy it because it'll be old and slow someday no matter what !

Instead of this tired flame war crap, get a woman, game, or argue your point based on actual facts and just enjoy your computer whatever your running.

 

[VChuck]

Awww,can't we have a little fun Royalcrown? not that I don't agree with what you posted.Just with roofus pov,I could not resist.hehe
lighten up Frances ,just bored and drunk last night.Plus I do like my 8800gtx(oh noes) especially for the price,though I wished I waited for 4870.Aw well, it looks fine on my NEC 20WMGX2 at 1680 x 1050.I still think image quality is better on my ATI 2900 pro though,maybe its just me.

 

[iocedmyself]

IF you actually look at the benches, the cost, the physical specs of the cards, nvidia loses on

all fronts. I'm talking overall not "ooo nvidia gtx280 beat 4870CF in oblivian at 2560x1600" The

4850 nips on the heels of the gtx260 in several places, sure the gtx260 is faster overall, but

you can't ignore the fact that the 4850 has 384 megs less ram, both are running gddr3, and the

4850 debuted at less than half the cost.

But then you have the 4870, outdoes the gtx260 in almost every, single card comparison, still

384megs less ram, though uses the more expensive lower supplyed GDDR5...yet debuted at $300, $150

less then the gtx260. But then it also creeps up to compare with the gtx280 in several benches,

beats it in more then one...with a full 512mb less ram, and $300-400 less than the gtx280 at

it's debut.

My i bet nvidia is thrilled they snuck their gtx200 release those few days ahead of ATI.I mean

what could possibly be worse than a 6month delay and the competition beating your release with

such good price's and performance? Oh, yes.. unvieling your new cards to reviews that already

note the small performance gains at high price premiums compared with previous gen, then ya

know...the thing that actually happened.

But if the single card comparisons aren't enough to sway you, there's always xfire and sli.

Despite the 2x4850 CF benches being definitive enough, ya know, ya just got to measure everything

up. So lets see the 4850CF wins out over over not only the 260 by a fair margin, but the gtx280

in crysis, call of duty 4, Bioshock, assasains creed. STALKER and many more in the max bench

resolutions of 1920x1200 and 2560x1600 depending on title. I find it interesting that the 4850CF

out did the gtx280 in crysis in 1920x1200 with very high settings. In fact the 4870 beats the

gtx280 in 1920x1200 on med settings, 1280x1024 on high settings, and is only 1.9 fps slower in

1920x1200 with very high settings.But i of course have been reading numerous reviews, and since

anandtech seems to be the least disputed reviewer, i'll stick to sumerizing thier findings,

except for the Vantage and 3dmark scores which i'm pulling from legitreviews as it's in front of

me as i type this.
$500-$680 $299-$309 $329-$450 $189-$204
1920x1200 4xAA GTX280 4870 GTX260 4850
Crysis(1680x1050)DX10 40.7 35.6 33.6 29.6
call of duty 4 90.9 82.4 74.3 66.4
ET quake wars 99.0 96.8 84.2 75.4
Assasains creed(no AA) 55.5 55.0 50.2 46.6
The witcher (2x AA) 55.1 48.0 46.1 34.5
Bioshock (no AA) 96.7 107.7 69.0 86.8
Oblivion 51.1 41.5 43.0 34.8
---------------------------------------------------------
FPS Total 489.4 467.0 399.6 374.1
Which is overall diff 4.6% 6.4%
$201-$371=$43-$81/% $140-$246=$22-$59/%

Crossfire & SLI $1000-$1360 $598-$618 $398-$690 $390-$400
2560x1600 4xAA GTX280 4870 9800GTX+ 4850
crysis (1920x1200no AA) 51.5 39.3 43.3 36.4
Call of duty 4 109.7 118.4 75 88.2
Quake Wars 124.1 64.1 74.4 53.7
Assasaubs Creed (no AA) 62.5 53.6 59.2 51.5
oblivion 63.4 49.7 48.6 39.5
The Witcher 58.4 59.5 44.5 44.2
Bioshock (no AA) 107.6 119.1 56.2 109.0
-------------------------------------------------------------
FPS Total 577.2 503.7 401.2 422.5
Which is overall diff 12.8% 5.1%
$402-$742=$31-$58/% $8-$290=$1.50-$57/%

1280x1024 3DM vantage overall GPU Score 3DM'06 OA SM3
HIS 4870 CF 13576 13731 17956 9147
Saphire 4850 CF 11625 11194 17708 8826
EVGA GTX 280 11478 11008 16381 7661
PNY GTX 280 10479 9854 15737 6928
HIS 4870 8769 7890 14992 6904
Saphire 4850 7247 6335 13154 5782

Yes i'm crazed, but at least i'm organized.
Now the only reason their is such a performance gap between the GTX 280 SLI and 4870 CF is due to

the 4870's not scaling well in that game where nvidia does exceptionally well. IF i had chosen to

exclude that benchmark, the CF/SLI totals for the 2x2 gpu's would have been

GTX280SLI 453.1 4870 CF 439.6. a performance difference of 3%. or $134 -$247/%

But, that's not really fair for one, the 4800 cards don't have official drivers yet for another,

and honestly, paying $400....at best for just under 13% performance jump isn't worth it, and

anyone who can justify it can't really be stopped...or helped =P.

The 9800gtx+ is really the only nvidia card worth considering to go SLI config, depending on

which card you go with it's the same price as the 4850, and only loses 5% performance compared to

the 4850 CF. Considering the fact that it knocked the gtx260 cards out of the SLI line-up, it

either says how good the 9800+ cards are for the price, or how bad the GTX260's really are. The

other plus with the 9800gtx+ is the physicX or however it's spelled. In vantage it amped the CPU

scores from 13000 up to 33500. For $400, that's something i'm considering toying with, despite

already expecting my 4870's on monday =D.

The GTX280 was out done by Geforce 9800x2, both one on one and while in SLI in a few benchmarks.

While the 9800x2 may be a single card SLI, it's still $100-$250 cheaper then a single GTX280

card.

So, anyone trying to use the exscuse of "i already have a SLI motherboard, it would cost more to

run crossfire since i need a new board...." cue for the charlie brown uber pathetic crying

wail...at which point there is only hope that someone near by you at this juncture has kept their

pimp hand strong to smack the fanboy logic out of you.


There is a 26-27% performance difference between two 4850's CFed and two GTX280's SLIed based on

overall FPS (19% if quake wars scaling bug is remidied) which is a sizeable performance hit, but

You could easily get two 4850's, and a $100-$200 motherboard for the price of a single gtx280.

Hell, for the price of two gtx280's you could two 4870's, a highend motherboard a decent

quadcore, 4 gigs of ram and a beefy PSU to get it pumping along.

Now you have to consider that the 4870x2 will be coming out in a month or two. Two 4870 gpu's

with 2x1gig GDDR5 memory. Single card crossfire, with twice the memor running effectively twice

the speed of any Nvidia card that is or will be out before next spring. with the $400-$500 price

tag that will put it square against the gtx280. The games that the 4870's lag behind in are

those with huge texture maps that the 280's 1gig comes in handy with. Running crysis on Very high

settings with my 2900xt 512mb card in 64bit vista i would see 2.3-2.6 gigs of system memory being

hogged by the game, the amount dropped by about 40% by enabling crossfire.

But, who knows, maybe the 4870x2 will suffer some kind of bug, two gpu's to a single card has

caused problems before. But i really don't think it too likely.

So that should cover pretty conclusively who's where with performance right now....and by nvidia's own admitdance, till next spring most likely.

 

[ZootyGray]

@ I Overclocked Myself = IMPRESSIVE!

I am amazed I actually followed your analysis - and easily! - it's an excellent point-form summary of the overall reality of not only the cards, but also the system overall realities and costs.

It will take some snitzy nitpicker a lot of work to refute that - or just some forlorn nvidiot fangirl with messy shorts

Adds credence to my own fanboyish claim of "blow yer doors off for half the price". I did not (fully) realize how close that was to reality!

As a self-confessed AMD/ATI fanboy, (and I am that for mainly ethical(!) reasons) I am loving this parade.

Sure it's about performance, and pricing; but the nasty business tactics that AMD has endured makes them more than just an underdog - they have some know-how, have been called to task, and have responded time and again. The fact that they have a lot going for them, causes the competition mudslingers to indulge in their own insecurities - read "they are all scared" of the lil engine that could; and that's the train I ride on, and that's where my business $ goes. AMD has promised a return to profitability by Q3 - that's no easy thing.

 

[roofus]

[citation][nom]VChuck[/nom]Interesting ascessement there roofus,Elriond.Last time I checked (reality) that Old fathead Nvidia has been sitting on their laurels jacking up prices,Now hehe " crapping in their pants" as some one put it.(love that one) good luck to all who have their "SLI capable" mobo's myself I won't go that route. seems as its more hype than reality.I also read that crossfire on the otherhand scales better than SLI(forums much more reputable than roofus).I don't care either way as I am not interested in anything other than a single GPU solution.Hey you think Nvidia with their partner's in financial distress (I Love it)can compete now? I just read that Gainward is now making available "Golden Samples" of the 4800 series card? (Oh what happened there roofus?)Oh I am having one hell of a time here too! (JOY!)[/citation]
lol. Gainward/Palit are the same company. This is nothing new.Your smugness is misplaced. They have made cards with Nvidia and ATI GPU's for years. Is it that your surprised? Wow..what a pointless post that was.
I do have to give credit where credit is due. A friend of mine has a computer that still is very capable but in terms of a computer, its about time for its Social Security check. I know buying an AGP card seems like a waste but his pc was a pretty significant invesntment and he wants to squeeze the last bit of life out of it. Started lurking around to see what could be purachsed to give it some better preformance than his 6600GT which of course was a card that held its own for a nice stint. Nvidia has pretty much abandon that place in the market yet we were able to find a 3850 AGP card! May not seem like a big deal or even seem like a waste of $$ but I was impressed. That gives his old pc the ability to play most newer games without having to start the parts pile process. Got to give them props there.

 

[ZootyGray]

Right on, Roofus.

And that's totally consistent with the idea of "performance for the masses". And the AGP niche is one that AMD/ATI is willing to fill, for people such as your friend. And your friend will buy in appreciation, when he actually does the upgrade thing. Word of mouth is the best advertising. Credit where credit is due.

 

[FrozenGpu]

[citation][nom]frozenlead[/nom]Who cares?When was the last time we saw a top of the line card for $300??????[/citation]

exactly!

 

[VChuck]

hey roofus,Not smug just a little drunk and arrogant last night(apologies)don't agree with you on alot of your previous points but,your last post surprised me.wow,at least you are somewhat objective. I was looking at buying the 3850 agp at one time,but decided against it for htpc but for old P-4's.Eh? when was the last time Gainward/Palit had a ATI gpu's on their cards?

 

[Guest]

I've never bought an ATI card...ever, but I ordered the same Sapphire 4870 from the tests at Newegg on the fourth. To me it just seems like a no-brainer.

 

[Guest]

No, VChuck, you're wrong. The GeForce 6 series is what set nVidia on top, performance wise. Before that, ATI had the most powerful/fast cards on the market. Specifically the 6800 GT and up were the ones to steal the crown.

And not really sure why you'd call be an "nvidiot" for posting something rather objective. There is bias in us all, but I feel that my post was simply advocating the best, performance-wise.

While ATI might have best in price to performance-ratio, they are still inferior when it comes to plain performance (flagship-wise).

That's what I'm saying. I believe nVidia had a great price-performance ratio with the 8800 GT, probably the last one from nVidia in a while. Recently their cards' performance increases have been disturbingly pathetic, and their products cost an arm and a leg.

Yet they still hold the crown.

ATI might take it with the 4870 X2, who knows.

There's already rumors of a DirectX 10.1-supporting card line by nVidia due out either late 2008 or Q1 2009. That might keep nVidia at the front.

But who knows.

- PR-0927