smoggy12345

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http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/16029/1/

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2009/10/14/amd_briefing_eric_demers

Is it just me or are ATI trying their hardest to Slag off Nvidia!?

If ATI were soo ahead of the game and their products are soo great etc...Then why are they trying their hardest to get HD5xxx series out the door?

To me it sounds like AMD is cacking their pants...

ATI looks to be getting as many cards out the door as possible before Nvidia's Fermi hits the shelves...releasing mainstream and high end cards so closely together isnt the norm? Is this because they fear what Fermi brings?? Will their cards suddenly become inferior?? This is what it looks like theyre thinking to me?

Theyre saying 'oooo look they are some DX11 games coming soon so BUY NOW NOW NOW!!!'

But again, their cards are great and better than the competition, right? so why be soo pushy?

They're presentation is petty and has some rediculas comparisons (ie 1600cores vs 512cores) as this is not relevant at all to actual performance! They try to point out everything bad about Fermi....Why bother if theyre soo confident in their new cards?!

Remember the last time Nvidia introduced ne architecture? YEP, the G80??? It was an absolubte GEM and crapped all over the competiton!! Are ATI fearing this all over again???

I mean the 5850 and 5870 arent exactly a great achivement are they? The 5850 barely beats the GTX 285 and the 5870 is about 20-30% faster...not a great achivement is it?

ATI doubled 4870 specs (approx.) to get 5870...right? Which gives rougly double pefromance.

So, say, Nvidia double the GTX 280 performance to get GTX380....this is gonna dominate ...about 30-40% faster AT LEAST. But Nvida have MORE than doubled the Cores....to 512? So maybe even faster STILL. And what if this new architecture is like the G80 and throws out great results....that makes it even faster STILL. Surley this spells trouble for ATI???

ATI are playing dirty...even when theyre on top...jus seems strange to me????

opinions please...
 

jennyh

Splendid
AMD should use everything in their arsenal to kill of Nvidia. Why should they lay off while they are on top? You realise that AMD are a guiltless company who have been picked on by intel and nvidia since day 1?

I *hope* AMD start to be merciless. I hope AMD crush Nvidia mercilessly, finishing them off before they get the chance to come back. Intel made that mistake with AMD, now AMD should use that experience to kill off Nvidia before turning on intel.

Nvidia would do the same, and have tried to do it many times before.
 

XD_dued

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jennh summed it up pretty well...business is business, and all businesses, including AMD, are out to make money, and that involves crushing the competition :)
 
I am company A. Company B, my rival, has had the lead in the technology we both share. I have just released my new series of cards, while company B still hasn't. I think I will use this time to sell as many cards as possible, and also get some of the market share from company B.

nVid renamed the same card three times, as well as renamed tons of other cards.
nVid would rather get money than loyal consumers.
nVid FAKED FERMI. PERIOD.

 

jennyh

Splendid
ATI aren't doing anything illegal here. ATI aren't hurting us, the consumers. All they are doing is pointing out the facts that we know right now.

From ATI's pov, Nvidia released the fermi specs 1 week after the 5870 was released. That was designed to hurt 5870 sales and nothing else.

Tell me...why shouldn't ATI put the pressure on Nvidia again? They should. ATI should do everything legally in their power to hurt nvidia.
 
Yeah... AMD/ATI would try hard to knock off their competetor. I mean even though the release of these cards have been insanely spontaneous. AMD is doing a great job. They keep true to the AMD/ATI of being cheaper but also outpreforming the competetor. nVidia hadn't really done anything after the GTX i believe other than Fermi so they might as well take advantage. Plus this would give AMD/ATI a chance to fix any errors in there newer chips if there were to be any by giving a run at it.
 

smoggy12345

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I agree that any company would jump on the opportuinty....but the way theyre going about it seems petty...

ill translations (2% yeilds)....

'Look at how crap Fermi is' presentations even though the dont have a clue about its real performance...

The amount of times they want to point out that their cards are 'shipping now' ...arent ATI normally the 2nd company to produce???

They just seem soo pathetic at the mo! They're scared...thats not to say they dont have any reason to be....they get trounced every generation!! They're only fighting point these last few years has been low price points.
 
And you go talking like you know what Fermi's performance is :lol: Face it, nobody knows. Well, hopefully NVidia has some clue by now, but even that isn't guaranteed as drivers definitely aren't finalized. What company hasn't put out something like this? A little propaganda now and then doesn't hurt anyone.
 

eklipz330

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uh... dude if you you were a businessperson, wouldn't you try to get your products sold?

they do what they have to to make money... it's not wrong, it's not unjust. they're playing the game, and they're playing it well.
 

smoggy12345

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I was merely pointing out a possible situation :D (Although i do expect Fermi's single GPU to be atleast 40-50% faster than 5870, hehe. I got my nomex suit on, flame me all you want :kaola: )

 

smoggy12345

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Its just i dont recall any Nvidia presentations pointing out all the possible bad things about ATI's cards or Nvidia distibuting false claims about ATI's cards....and Nvidia are on top 80% of the time. Although correct me if im wrong!!!

It just seems to me that ATI are scared so are trying to cause as much damage as possible while trying REALLY REALLY hard to convince people to buy their cards NOW before Fermi hits the shelves! The only reason they would try soo soo soo hard is because they fear whats coming.
 

Dekasav

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No, the reason they would try so hard is because it's the smart thing to do. Even if Fermi is perfectly equal to the HD 5xxx series in price and performance, ATi will sell fewer cards to people who wait than people who don't, hence, they would rather people not wait.

Think about it this way, if you make a widget, and everyone who wants a widget has to buy yours because you make the only one, you get 100% of the widget sales. If someone else makes the exact same widget, now you get closer to 50% of the widget sales (keeping price/performance/features the same, and excluding marketing/brand name/etc.).
 
Smoggy, umm no offence. But your way wrong. If i don't remember reading it correctly 4850 series can match up to the 250gts and 9800 gt and 9800gtx. And which the 4850 is for 100$ on Newegg I'd rather buy that.
 

smoggy12345

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why would you buy a 8800ultra NOW?

My point was people that bought an 8800Ultra at the time it came out had 2-3yrs at the top without needing / wanting to upgrade!



The problem im having is: HD5870/50 ards are already selling themselves...like hot cakes in fact, soo much so they cant cope with demand...there is litterally none in stock anywhere...so why is ATI giving low blows to this company that arnt even a threat yet and tryin to soo hard to sell their cards that they cant even get onto the shelves quick enough!!!???
 

Homeboy2

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Fanboy alert! :sarcastic: :sarcastic: :sarcastic:
 

Homeboy2

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Yeh, amd quit trying so hard, its a bad business strategy according to smoggy. :pt1cable: :pt1cable: :pt1cable: :lol:
 
If you didnt notice, at the bottom of those slides it says AMD confidential, AKA meant for internal presentation only, not for the general public. They need something to call it internally, and the paper dragon boosts company moral. And remember, any promotion AMD is putting out now is not meant for the AMD fanboy, or really even the average thinking consumer who looks at benchmarks, its designed to hit at the nVidia fanboys because if they can take that market share it will help them a lot in the long run.

And just because your card sells well doesnt mean you shouldnt advertise it, it means you should advertise it more and keep them selling, the fact that they are sold out looks good, and the more early adopters they get the fewer people who will be getting a fermi, especially if it doesnt come out until after christmas. There is no such thing as trying to hard to sell something, and with the way nVidia was spouting CUDA this and CUDA and breaking it so ATI systems cannot have PhysX they should expect some red retribution, its only fair that it goes both ways.
 


So naive, so much to learn. :lol:

This is the norm for the GPU market, if anything the roles have just been reverse.

Interesting that they have an issue with this but seem fine with the whole paper/wood-screw launch to begin with !?! [:thegreatgrapeape:5]

Last time ATi did something like this in reply to nV was the classic BS bingo in reply to nV's FUD.

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1041260/outrageous-ati-gets-nvidia-attendees-to-alleviate-boredom

Interesting that Fuad's crew didn't post the link to the stats page which is more interesting than the other page;

http://www.hardocp.com/image.html?image=MTI1NTQ3MDM3NXlvcUhUU1k4TzlfMV8xNl9sLmpwZw==

Of course this presentation was LAST week, but nice to see Fudzilla is, once again..., right on the cutting edge. :pt1cable:

Once again a good old french saying: The more things change, the more they stay the same. :wahoo:

Wake me up when Fermi/G300 is in stores. :sleep:
 

IzzyCraft

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Business is Business although some times it's on the board-line err i don't remember the right words but they mis lead and lie to people who don't know better all the time. Does BFG really think i'd buy a 6200 with 1 GIG of ddr2 memory for a 100 bucks at best buy, no but we know someone eventually will get suckered into it.

AMD crushing Nvidia i find hilarious, Nvidia will strach and rip your balls off to get ahead. What other company can make the shittist card NV30(5xxx) chips and sell more then their competitor which cost less and performs way better. OFc the roles were reversed with R600 from ATI and shitty cards loyal fanbase got screwed then.

Nvidia is worth about the same as AMD, AMD has intel to worry about.

AMD playing a little below the belt wont change much because nvidia can easily sink lower and they have there is a reason they are number 2 in the graphic biz (intel being number one nothing sells more then laptops shoved with barely functional igp's from intel with intel cpu's!)

Also what is up with AMD and dragons? Paper dragon is that an insult it's still a kick ass dragon?!

And if AMD's dragon platform is made of metal

and metal is earth

and earth is rock

Paper beats Rock

They just admitted defeat GG. Should have called them scissors dragon.
 

Homeboy2

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yeh, Nvidia is really kicking amd's ass! :sarcastic: :sarcastic: :sarcastic:

 


So naive and so wrong. :pfff:

nV have FUDed all over the place, you're just obviously not very aware of the graphic segment;
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1025586/nvidias-fud-presentation-revealed

I have a few other examples on some HDD somewhere as part as an old 'My Documents' portfolio, if any are entertaining I'll add them here.

As for being on top;

ATi was on top with R9700, X800, X1900, and now HD5870. Potentially HD4870X2 if you count that way but I was counting by GPU.

nV ontop with GF4, GF7800, GF8800, GTX280; don't see 80% there.




Depends on what counts as a product, but once again you really are unaware of the past aren't you? :heink:

R8500 predates GF3, and came with DX8.1/PS1.4 vs DX8.0/PS1.3
R9700 predates FX5800 series, and came with working DX9 versus DX8.1+; and further R9800 came before FX5900
X800 actually came out before GF6800 which was paper launched before the X800.
X1900 came out before GF7900.

What counts in the whole HD38xx or HD38zz versus G8x/G9x I guess is hard to determine.

But overall, not really much 'normal' about it, just more recently following.

Anywhoo, you once again complain about them compiling figures from the 'unknown' (which is actually based on the core speed required to match nV's performance for DP if you read the actual #s) yet you have no problem guesstimating overall performance when you have even less information, like do you still know what their Texture and RBE configuration is like?

Sofar it seems like you already had your mind set before any of this came to light. :pfff:
 

hallowed_dragon

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OMG. This forum is beginning to be just like anandtech's forums. nVidia fanboys everywhere beating the logic out of people that have anything wrong to say about their precious company. Lets take a look for a second at the GPU market now:
- ATI released the 58xx series for the high end;
- ATI released the 57xx series for the main stream;
- ATI still has stock for the 48xx+47xx series for the low-main streams;

nVidia has:
- a woodshed made card which is working on paper and behold ... they are marketing it as a great step in super computing...gaming..hmm not so much.
- the 2xx series which are crushed in benchmarks by the 58xx series (yeah the 295 is still better if you want drops from 200 FPS to 0 FPS)

Yep, now I see, nVidia is winning all over the place :sarcastic: :sarcastic: :sarcastic: