ATi trying too hard?

[purplefire]

I agree with the others, Nvidia has done this to ATi for years, people have just grown desensitised to it

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

Greatgrape or whatever your name is....arrogant as always....love how you assume how every1 else is wrong... All that moderating power getting to your head? Maybe your the one who's naive, u cant communicate with people! Your attitude STINKS.

Sure it does, and being a mod has nothing to do with it, it has to do with you n00b, not knowing JACK SQUAT about anything yet, commenting on the history as if this were something FAQing new !!

Did you even read the links, obviously not, had you read them, you'd realize BOTH do it, and have done it, so there's no reason for you to LIE or gloss over the past to make it seem like it's something that it's not.

I gave you my opinion, which is that both do it; AND you're NAIVE, ignorant, and whiney, and then you just whined some more !

You got a problem with that, then stop posting crap on the forum, and my assuming you're wrong, no you showed you were wrong by writing it in the forum, and then I proved you wrong.

You think I'm wrong, then PROVE IT, don't b1tch about it!

Seriously, if you don't like playing with the adults, which requires a higher standard, then go post on cnet or somewhere, where they have a higher tolerance and propensity for ignorance.

You friggin launch day n00bs are enough of a headache without your histerical hypocritical BS, stick to the facts man !! [:thegreatgrapeape:6]

 

[Bluescreendeath]

and metal is earth

and earth is rock

Paper beats Rock

huh? 😗

 

[OvrClkr]

AMD should use everything in their arsenal to kill of Nvidia. Why should they lay off while they are on top? You realise that AMD are a guiltless company who have been picked on by intel and nvidia since day 1?

I *hope* AMD start to be merciless. I hope AMD crush Nvidia mercilessly, finishing them off before they get the chance to come back. Intel made that mistake with AMD, now AMD should use that experience to kill off Nvidia before turning on intel.

Nvidia would do the same, and have tried to do it many times before.

I don't think you meant that, if AMD kills Nvidia then you can say Bye-Bye to high-end sub 300 dollar GPU's .... We need both companies afloat in order for us the consumers to get reasonable prices. If you don't like Nvidia then don't buy their products, simple as that...

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

Maybe if they kill nVidia then S3 and MATROX can come back !!

Now that would be Sah-WEET !! [:thegreatgrapeape]

 

[randomizer]

I have to disagree with you here.
The new generations dual GPU (4870x2, GTX295) do not suffer from min fps, on the other hand the old (9800GX2, 3870x2) have problems min fps.
In the benchmark that you show me the 4870x2 get higher min fps than the 5870.
Also the GTX295 get double the min fps than the GTX260, except at 2560x1600(really the GTX295 sucks at this resolution).

Why even bother arguing minimum framerate (except for 0FPS, ie. no render at all) when the only information you can deduce from that number is the time taken to render the single slowest frame?

 

[shadow187]

Why even bother arguing minimum framerate (except for 0FPS, ie. no render at all) when the only information you can deduce from that number is the time taken to render the single slowest frame?

Mebby because the GTX295 had lower min frames than anything else (not literally...), because it's unstable-er?

 

[randomizer]

Not minimum framerates, it's a singular. That number is for one single frame, and tells you nothing else about every other frame. If you have one slow frame out of, say, 3600, this does not necessarily mean you have any other really slow ones. And the chances of you noticing one slow frame is pretty low.

 

[jennyh]

I don't think you meant that, if AMD kills Nvidia then you can say Bye-Bye to high-end sub 300 dollar GPU's .... We need both companies afloat in order for us the consumers to get reasonable prices. If you don't like Nvidia then don't buy their products, simple as that...

I do mean it. If ATI can chase Nvidia out of the gaming graphics market then that will help AMD to make money, and therefore continue to push intel on cpu's. Nobody else can or will, can you imagine life with intel as the only gpu maker? 5mhz per year upgrades?

And the nice thing is, with the direction Nvidia are heading, ATI *can* dominate gaming graphics. Nvidia are gonna lose some cash, that can't be avoided, but at the end of it they could be in a good position to push cgpu. Both of these companies can live, they just cannot live together doing the same thing. With ATI in control of graphics and Nvidia pressuring intel on cgpu, it would keep progression going on all fronts.

 

[smoggy12345]

Sure it does, and being a mod has nothing to do with it, it has to do with you n00b, not knowing JACK SQUAT about anything yet, commenting on the history as if this were something FAQing new !!

Did you even read the links, obviously not, had you read them, you'd realize BOTH do it, and have done it, so there's no reason for you to LIE or gloss over the past to make it seem like it's something that it's not.

I gave you my opinion, which is that both do it; AND you're NAIVE, ignorant, and whiney, and then you just whined some more !

You got a problem with that, then stop posting crap on the forum, and my assuming you're wrong, no you showed you were wrong by writing it in the forum, and then I proved you wrong.

You think I'm wrong, then PROVE IT, don't b1tch about it!

Seriously, if you don't like playing with the adults, which requires a higher standard, then go post on cnet or somewhere, where they have a higher tolerance and propensity for ignorance.

You friggin launch day n00bs are enough of a headache without your histerical hypocritical BS, stick to the facts man !! [:thegreatgrapeape:6]

Wrong about what? i never dissagreed with you? Im a 'n00b'? Grow up!!! You have just proved how much knob you actually are...your an egotistical yank, nuff said. Also this post REALLY REALLY shows how ignorant you actually are! You havent actually took in what i said you jus gave your narrow minded, irrelevant opinion AGAIN as always.

 

[jennyh]

Smoggy, I think you are overreacting here.

ATI haven't done anything wrong. All those slides do is point out the facts that we already know.

Are they scared of fermi? Maybe they are, who knows? I don't believe so. What I believe is ATI are in a commanding position and they are trying to bring people to their senses.

Just look at those figures. If you want I will explain each one to you using Nvidia's white paper. That is all ATI did here so I dunno how you can come to the conclusion that they are scared.

 

[some-guy]

I dunno guys. I'm normally a Nvidia Fanboy but if a 5870 is better than a gtx 285 (roughly $400) at the price of a gtx 260 core 216 ($150) it just seems like a good deal. Plus there's also the fact that whenever Nvidia gets the upperhand in the market they tend to make their cards expensive. So if the Fermi does come out and the benchmarks show that it is 30-40% better, the prices will go straight up to the $300+ range. Much too expensive for me 😛

 

[Mousemonkey]

Smoggy, I think you are overreacting here.

ATI haven't done anything wrong. All those slides do is point out the facts that we already know.

Are they scared of fermi? Maybe they are, who knows? I don't believe so. What I believe is ATI are in a commanding position and they are trying to bring people to their senses.

Just look at those figures. If you want I will explain each one to you using Nvidia's white paper. That is all ATI did here so I dunno how you can come to the conclusion that they are scared.

Let's hope it doesn't come come back to haunt them, you'd have thought some one at their parent company would have reminded them that gloating before the dust has settled is rarely a good idea.

 

[smoggy12345]

Smoggy, I think you are overreacting here.

ATI haven't done anything wrong. All those slides do is point out the facts that we already know.

Are they scared of fermi? Maybe they are, who knows? I don't believe so. What I believe is ATI are in a commanding position and they are trying to bring people to their senses.

Just look at those figures. If you want I will explain each one to you using Nvidia's white paper. That is all ATI did here so I dunno how you can come to the conclusion that they are scared.

Maybe but this isnt the point im trying to make....i was after a discussion of the possible scenario! I wasnt sayin this is how it is!!! I wanted arguments from both sides....not people telling me im an arse and im WRONG!!!

My first post was full of questions, not statements!

'Is ATI scared??' 'Would this spell trouble for ATI??' etc...

@ someguy: The 5870 is $399 and the 5850 is $299 and yes i agree Nvidia will DEFFINATELY hammer everyone with prices....but i dont think as severly as some people may think, they still need to be competetive and MAY have learned their lesson from last time!

 

[jennyh]

Ok from that PoV I understand your frustrations. But you have to realise that there are a lot of pretty desperate sounding Nvidia fanboys at the moment and anything like this is easily brushed aside as whine.

I don't think ATI are trying to hard. I do believe ATI are squeezing Nvidia until they are bursting - but you know what? ATI have been doing that to Nvidia for the past year tbh.

For all ATI's obvious tech superiority, for all ATI's obvious price superiority...Nvidia are still selling more gpu's. Even right now, Nvidia are selling more gpu's.

 

[smoggy12345]

Ok from that PoV I understand your frustrations. But you have to realise that there are a lot of pretty desperate sounding Nvidia fanboys at the moment and anything like this is easily brushed aside as whine.

I don't think ATI are trying to hard. I do believe ATI are squeezing Nvidia until they are bursting - but you know what? ATI have been doing that to Nvidia for the past year tbh.

For all ATI's obvious tech superiority, for all ATI's obvious price superiority...Nvidia are still selling more gpu's. Even right now, Nvidia are selling more gpu's.

Thankyou! This is your opinion and thats what im after, thankyou for your input into the discussion! 😀 (Dont mean to sound patronising there :S haha)

 

[Mousemonkey]

Ok from that PoV I understand your frustrations. But you have to realise that there are a lot of pretty desperate sounding Nvidia fanboys at the moment and anything like this is easily brushed aside as whine.

I don't think ATI are trying to hard. I do believe ATI are squeezing Nvidia until they are bursting - but you know what? ATI have been doing that to Nvidia for the past year tbh.

For all ATI's obvious tech superiority, for all ATI's obvious price superiority...Nvidia are still selling more gpu's. Even right now, Nvidia are selling more gpu's.

That's only because they are just better! 😗

 

[jennyh]

Hehe, nah I think we all know that Nvidia are selling on reputation alone. Even after all the dodgy stuff Nvidia has pulled, the average person would still buy an Nvidia. Why> It's because the average person doesn't know what Nvidia are up to...most of them don't even look at benchmarks - all they see is one of their friends with a gtx model and then they rush out to buy an Nvidia card.

This is a problem for ATI. Even with better graphics at amazingly cheap prices, they still are the underdog because what really matters is volume sales and having a brand name. Tick both boxes for Nvidia while they release nothing good, and ATI are desperately trying to claw some market share that their products deserve.

Unfortunately these things take time to settle down. ATI could have the best gpu at every price point and it would still probably take a year or more for them to beat Nvidia on market share.

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

Wrong about what? i never dissagreed with you?

Look at my second post, pretty clear where you were telling porkie pies !

Im a 'n00b'? Grow up!!!

Yes, you're a noob, and it has nothing to do with the #of your posts, it has to do with your basic lack of understanding of the industry and it's history and yet you go out and pretending like this is either new, or something nV has never done before.
And like I already said, you distort the past to try and make an argument: nV never did this.... nV always been.... ATi's always... never... whatever.

You have just proved how much knob you actually are...your an egotistical yank, nuff said.

Considering I'm not a Yank, and it's pretty easy to figure that out, which exemplifies your assumptions and lack of research ability. I'd give you a pass on this stuff if we were in 1998 not 2008 when a bazillion resources can fact check 90+% of your 'correct me if I'm wrong issues' before you posting. Instead you read Fudzilla and simply get all worked up without trying to understand what you read, and you want to vent/spew here instead.

Also this post REALLY REALLY shows how ignorant you actually are! You havent actually took in what i said you jus gave your narrow minded, irrelevant opinion AGAIN as always.

What am I to take in from your post, that you're trying to stir the pot by posting this, the adding inflammatory ignorance, and then expecting others to be equally ignorant instead of correcting you.

Oh my ATi/AMD's afraid of nV and nV's afraid of intel, who's afraid of Microsoft, who's afraid of Apple who's afraid of IBM who ain't afraid of no ghosts?

Screw that dude, your whole thread is based on your misconception this is something new, which it's not, and then back it up with a bunch of BS, including the main reason this is out there, because people keep parroting the nV PR line that Fermi is coming and it's going to be a great gaming part, thus ATi must be scared, instead of simply responding in kind.

Prove to me your more than an ignorant troll looking for a flame war, especially after your nomex suit comment. You asked for it and you got it with both barrels, only I'm not going to attack the message or the IHVs in a fanboi way, I'll attack the messenger you naive child !!

 

[OvrClkr]

I do mean it. If ATI can chase Nvidia out of the gaming graphics market then that will help AMD to make money, and therefore continue to push intel on cpu's. Nobody else can or will, can you imagine life with intel as the only gpu maker? 5mhz per year upgrades?

And the nice thing is, with the direction Nvidia are heading, ATI *can* dominate gaming graphics. Nvidia are gonna lose some cash, that can't be avoided, but at the end of it they could be in a good position to push cgpu. Both of these companies can live, they just cannot live together doing the same thing. With ATI in control of graphics and Nvidia pressuring intel on cgpu, it would keep progression going on all fronts.

I don't think it would work out like that. I think there has to be 2 or more companies always fighting for the top position and of course this is done by each company trying to outsell the competitor. Meaning if you come with major performance for less (5870), you actually make the other company try and make an even better product at the same/higher pricepoint. The more competition, the better chance we have at paying reasonable prices. Both companies can live together doing the same thing, you just want AMD/ATI to OWN the GPU market as a whole and that won't happen anytime soon. Trust me, if AMD was the only GPU manufacturer, we would not be paying 379.99 for a 5870. Why do you think Apple had to lower prices on their first gen ipod? Cause more and more companies came out with mp3 players for a fraction of the cost. Simple Marketing...

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

However it seems like both the hardware and techniques for graphics rendering are moving beyond traditional GPUs into a space that right now nV can't follow without drastically changing the environment in which CPUs and the render hardware is used, which is what they are trying to do on the GPGPU/CGPU front..

It may no longer be about a GPU manufacturer so much as a processor manufacturer, and in that realm there is far more than just 2 participants, so the health of nV isn't as important in the bigger scheme of things, just in the short term while everything transitions to the next great thing. nV wants to be a part of that, as does AMD, intel, IBM, etc, but they aren't needed in order for there to continue being competition, which also goes for AMD if they can't ever bring themselves back to profitability.

 

[Homeboy2]

That im right about what?! Im tryin to make a discussion? Im not trying to say this is whats happening ...i was asking for peoples opinions! ignorant ****

you asked for an opinion, you're a fool or troll or most likely both. Happy now?

 

[aznshinobi]

O>o I'm actually glad that nVidia exist. I'm not saying I don't like ATI but, if nvidia comes out with a better GPU ATI will drop prices on there GPUs. Therefore allowing budget builders like me to buy cheap awesome GPUS 😀

 

[soundefx]

O>o I'm actually glad that nVidia exist. I'm not saying I don't like ATI but, if nvidia comes out with a better GPU ATI will drop prices on there GPUs. Therefore allowing budget builders like me to buy cheap awesome GPUS 😀

I hear you on that one as I am in the same boat.

In terms of who is afraid of who, nobody is afraid. Both companies will do what ever it takes to sell their cards. Instead of sitting idly by and doing nothing while their cards are selling, Ati is simply telling every one, 'Look what we have and look what the other company plans to come out with.'

In my mind, if ATi was afraid of the nvidia cards that are coming out, they would NOT bring it up or compare numbers. In fact, that would prove that they are not afraid and that they simply want people to THINK and compare the numbers.

 

[vjcsmoke]

ATI has the new hardware out now. So of course they toot their own horn a bit. Look at what performance we can give you NOW. Look what new features our cards have that Nvidia doesn't - DX11, Eyefinity, HD Streaming, etc. etc. It's all marketing with one purpose. Get people to buy ATI cards. And for now, it actually makes sense. Because the leading performance, plus features, plus bang for the buck are there. Until Nvidia can deliver a new product, ATI's 5000 series line is the best value for your money card you can get today.