ATI X800XL = Plasma?

mozzartusm · Feb 13, 2005

Hey guys, does anyone know how good the computer will display on a PLASMA (EDTV)? The one im looking at is 37" and has the regular 15 pin and an HDMI input(along with others). Im just curious as to how the picture will look when surfing the web. Will the words be clear? ALso since I have a DVI output on my card would I be able to use one of the adapter cables that converts DVI to HDMI?
Im using a X700 PRO right now, but I am going to order one of the X800XL's Monday. I can get this plasma at a good deal but its still alot of money so I would like some opinions.

Thanks

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Crashman · Feb 13, 2005

It will be fine as long as you choose the correct resolution. For computers, Progressive resolutions are normally better than Interlaced, so the 720P setting can give you a crisper picture than 1080i even though it's a lower resoltion.

One problem is that the standard computer resolutions near 720p are 1024x768 and 1280x1024, and you really need 1280x720. Middle resolutions such as 1280x768 are possible with many cards, but only a few natively support 1280x720. Fortunately there are programs that can "unlock" special resolutions such as 1280x720.

As long as the TV can do a good job of analog to digital conversion, the 15-pin cable is a great option when the refresh rate is set to 60Hz (50Hz in european countries). DVI is better because it gets around the digital-analog-digital conversions. DVI to HDMI adapter cables are available, if desired.

Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!
Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!

TheGreatGrapeApe · Feb 13, 2005

Crash, his resolution is EDTV so probably 800x600 at that size (unless widescreen of course) .

The plasma should be pretty clear but will still blurr a bit. We use them all over at work. I know there's and EDTV one in the lobby of one of the other buildings, and it displays text all day, and seems clear enough, but that's also from 10+ft away of course.

Mozzartusm, if you can wait for an answer I can check first thing monday and let you know my op-onion of the 32-40" Sony there.

EDIT: Don't forget that pesky HDCP crap that may screw up the HDMI to DVI route.

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! - RED GREEN GA to SK :evil:

Edited by TheGreatGrapeApe on 02/12/05 09:21 PM.

Crashman · Feb 13, 2005

Thanks for that part, I missed the mention of EDTV.

Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!
Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!

Crashman · Feb 13, 2005

I have a question! My card supports 848x480 and 856x480 (using Rage3d tweak), which would be better for an EDTV display?

Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!
Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!

TheGreatGrapeApe · Feb 13, 2005

Depends on native resolution of course, and how the TV addresses WVGA singals.

But with those options I would say that the 848x480 would be the best choice as it is the 'standard' whether or not this takes into account line/signal loss due to overscan correction. The image may look closer to broadcast when it's sent at 856x480 as those additional line will get cropped by the TV automatically. Since overscan is not a 'standard' it could vary widely.

Anywhoo, need nap before heading out for the evening.

As always, have a good one, but don't tell them I sent you!

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! - RED GREEN GA to SK :evil:

mozzartusm · Feb 13, 2005

You didnt miss anything, it was my fault for not mentioning that it was EDTV. As soon as I read your reply it made me realize that I was probably not looking at the right set.

Thanks

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RichPLS · Feb 13, 2005

Hey, your first post did mention that... Plasmas are great, but I believe I would prefer an LCD since they do not fade as the xenon gas does not leak out causing the picture to wash out in a year or two, static images like computer use cause this washing out to occur much much quicker. There are some screen savers to reduce this, but beware.

The contrast of a Plasma is usually a little better than an LCD.
Color saturation of Plasmas when new are generally more vibrant than an LCD, but my eyes don't really notice.
Plasmas usually have a 10 to 20 degree greater viewing range.
But for using as a monitor, the LCD TV's are better suited.
LCD TV's have about double the lifespan of Plasma sets, something to consider for the long haul...
LCD TV's use much less power than Plasma and produce way less heat...

With a 32 or 37" LCD TV you could get a native resolution of 1366 x 768 which would make a great web browser...
Good Luck..

<pre>°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°`°¤o \\// o¤°`°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°
And the sign says "You got to have a membership card to get inside" Huh
So I got me a pen and paper And I made up my own little sign</pre>

mozzartusm · Feb 13, 2005

Im open to suggetions if you have any links or a direction to point me in. Let me say this, and correct me if im wrong. The LCD Tv's that I have looked at are way more expensive. I dont expect the same size as the plasma, and that really isnt the biggest factor anyway in my descion. I would like to be at least in the 26" or preferably 30"+ category. Im open to LCD, but there is one other thing that I should throw in here. My eyes are SUPER sensitive to just about every quirk that any of the flat panels may have. I see the rainbow effect on sets that other people either dont see or didnt see untill I point it out. More than that, I pick up on any slow response or distortion that most other people dont see.

I was in Circuit City the other day, and the manager was amazed at how I could point out quirks in some of the more expensive sets that he had never noticed. We even looked on Cnet to see what they said about these sets and their ratings were really close to my opinions of the sets. This is in no way a good thing of course. It just makes it harder for me to find a set that my eyes can handle. The Plasma's are alot easier on my eyes, or at least the ones that I looked at. The coulple of LCD TV's that I could have lived with were out of my comfort zone. I am trying to stay within $2000.00 and no more than $2500.00 Also I have no idea what the computer display will lood like on the Plasma.

Thanks

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Crashman · Feb 13, 2005

The 720p resolution is fine for most things you'd do on a TV, including watching DVD's. And while it's a little low for a computer monitor, at standard viewing distances it's not going to look bad. Remember that most people are fine with 1024x768 on their 17" monitors, so 1280x720 should be fine for most people on a TV.

Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!
Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!

Crashman · Feb 13, 2005

Supposedly, a standard TV signal looks better on EDTV than HDTV because the native resolution is the same for SDTV and EDTV in one direction.

Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!
Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!

mozzartusm · Feb 13, 2005

If that is the case then this EDTV is probably the way for me to go. The cheapest that I can find this one on the web is $1950.00 I can get it at a local store for a few hundred less"Ive dated the owners daughter on and off" :lol: The store will also warranty the parts and labor for 2 years. I usually wouldnt trust such a warranty, but I have bought3 TV's from them over the last 15 years and they have always stood behind their word. I really dont watch TV that often. The little that I do watch one its usually a DVD. If the computer display is ok then I will go ahead and get one. Ive heard stories go both ways on the issue of displaying with a computer shortening the life of a Plasma. Do you know if this is true? Im not worried so much about burn in. I should be able to avoid that by not leaving the set on a fixed screen.

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Crashman · Feb 14, 2005

Hey, here's something else for you: DVD's are 720x480, "perfect" standard TV is 480i (nothing's perfect because it's analog), and EDTV is 853x480, they all have 480 in common with each other so displaying standard TV and DVD should work great with EDTV.

Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!
Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!

RichPLS · Feb 14, 2005

Besides questions about the average lifespan of plasma TVs, the question I get most from people has to do with screen burn-in, which manufacturers consider to be a consequence of the viewer's "misuse" or "abuse" of his or her plasma display. All this seems quite serious. Which raises the question: What is plasma screen burn-in, and how do you avoid such "abuses"?

You are probably most familiar with burn-in as it appears on ATM screens. We have all seen the hideous results of an image being displayed far too often and for too long: Think of the "Insert Card" directive on the screen of an ATM. Remember how that same message seemed to loom in the background of each subsequent screen, appearing as a gray-ish shadow image set against an otherwise black screen? That's burn-in. And it's permanent.

Simply put, burn-in is a damaged pixel, whose phosphors have been prematurely aged and therefore glow less intensely than those of surrounding pixels. The reason is that the damaged pixel has developed a "memory" of the color information that was repeatedly fed to it in a static manner over a long period of time. And that phosphor color information has actually become seared into the plasma-screen glass. Hence the term "burn-in." Once these phosphors are damaged, they cannot give the same output as the other phosphors around them do. But pixels do not suffer burn-in singly. Burn-in occurs in the shape of a static image that persists on TV screens -- things like network logos, computer icons, Internet browser frames, etc.

So, how do you prevent burn-in on your brand-new plasma television screen?

(1) Some obvious advice: Do not leave static images on your plasma TV screen. Turn off your unit when you are not watching it. Do not pause DVDs for more than a few minutes at a time.

(2) Know that plasma screens are more prone to burn-in during their first 200 hours of use. When phosphors are fresh, they burn more intensely as they are ignited. This means that relatively new plasma display panels are prone to ghosting, which occurs when on-screen images appear to stay on the screen belatedly. This is probably just a function of the high intensity with which new phosphors "pop," and this phenomenon usually "washes out" on its own, as the screen displays subsequent images. When static images are left on new plasma screens too long (more than a few minutes at a time), though, ghosting quickly develops into something more permanent -- burn-in.

Self-Defense: Break your new plasma monitor in slowly. Keep the CONTRAST set at or below 50% -- any higher only causes phosphors to glow more intensely, which decreases the length of time necessary for burn-in to occur. And, be sure to avail yourself of your plasma's anti-burn-in features. These are monotone gray or snow screen settings that "wash" your plasma screen by recalibrating pixel intensity levels uniformly. This reduces the visual effects of ghosting. It's probably a good idea to run one of these screen "wash" cycles after about 100 viewing hours or so. (Note: These processes will impact the lifespan of the phosphors in your unit, so you should run them selectively and on an as-needed basis.)

(3) Know, too, that some plasma display panels burn-in more easily than others. In my experience, AliS type panels -- the ones utilized by Hitachi and Fujistu -- seem more readily given over to problems with burn-in.

(4) Utilize burn-in protection like power management settings, full-time picture shift (both vertical and horizontal), and automatic screen-saver functions. Check your Owner's Manual for further information.

(5) Realize that quality matters with burn-in as with everything else. You definitely want to purchase a plasma monitor that has really good scaling, so that you can watch 4:3 TV programs in widescreen comfortably. It is just not a good idea to leave black bars on your TV screen for prolonged periods of time, so you are probably better off watching most everything in "full screen" mode. This should not really bother you, if your TV exhibits good full-screen scaling.

Also, higher quality TVs tend to be more resistant to burn-in -- though not entirely immune to it, of course. Of the plasma displays I've owned and/or tested extensively, NEC, Sony, Pioneer, and Panasonic seemed least prone to burn-in once their pictures were properly broken in. Even so, I would NEVER leave a static image on any plasma TV screen, regardless of quality, for more than hour.

Note: You should keep in mind that there are some applications, which are simply not well suited to plasma display technology. Take the static flight schedule signage at airports, for example. It always amazes me to walk into an airport and see a ruined plasma monitor hanging from the ceiling with what is obviously an extreme case of permanent burn- in. The only thing such plasmas are used for is displaying the exact same image for hours on end. This is one instance where a little thought would have lead one in a completely different direction as far as digital signage modalities go. (Lately in airports, I have noticed new software programs that try to compensate for burn-in by keeping the images moving.)

The Bottom Line on Burn-In: Plasma TV burn-in is not an issue that should cause undue concern in the average user. With a modicum of caution, most plasma TVs will probably never have a problem with image retention. A viewer may experience temporary ghosting, but this is certainly not cause for alarm. In truth, carelessness -- i.e., not paying attention to what your TV is displaying and for how long -- is really the leading "cause" of permanent burn-in.

<pre>°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°`°¤o \\// o¤°`°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°
And the sign says "You got to have a membership card to get inside" Huh
So I got me a pen and paper And I made up my own little sign</pre>

RichPLS · Feb 14, 2005

Following here are some guidelines you should implement to ensure that you get the most out of your plasma display:

Keep your BRIGHTNESS and CONTRAST levels "normalized" to actual viewing conditions. Don't jack up your CONTRAST levels unnecessarily; this only dissipates phosphors faster. In brightly lit rooms, you will probably need to boost your CONTRAST settings. At night or in other dim circumstances, you should lower these settings to extend the life of your unit.

Note: Many high quality manufacturers now have added preset options to make this adjustment possible without even going into the menu settings.

Do not leave static images on your display for extended periods of time (i.e., 20 minutes or longer). This will prevent burn-in, which is a permanent after-image on your screen.

Turn your plasma TV off when it's not being viewed.

Keep your plasma television in a well-ventilated area, so it will not have to work so hard to cool itself. This is one way to ensure your plasma's cooling system will remain in tip-top shape for the life of your unit.

<pre>°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°`°¤o \\// o¤°`°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°
And the sign says "You got to have a membership card to get inside" Huh
So I got me a pen and paper And I made up my own little sign</pre>

mozzartusm · Feb 14, 2005

Its sounding better and better. Im leaning towards getting it. Im sure the 15 pin input will do fine, but I wish that it had a DVI. From what I have heard the HDMI input may not work with the DVI to HDMI cable adapter. Im not sure why, something about HDCP. Whatever that means.

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RichPLS · Feb 14, 2005

Plasma vs. LCD - Usage Considerations
Heavy Duty Use - A television will most likely experience heavy duty
use outside the home, perhaps in conferences, schools, or as a part of
a commercial display. Heavy duty use may entail long hours or constant
operation, or being subjected to physical blows due to frequent
transportation or otherwise. LCD televisions are the better choice for
heavy use because their operational lifetime is longer, and they are
less physically fragile than plasma sets. Additionally, plasma
televisions are susceptible to screen burn-in if they show the same
static picture for some time, and LCDs don't have this problem.

Use in a Bright Room or Outdoors - Plasma televisions rely on
phosphorous material on their screen to generate color light pixels,
whereas LCD televisions generate an image by shinning a light through
a liquid crystal panel. Therefore, the brightness of a plasma TV is
limited by the ability of phosphor to emit light, and an LCD's
brightness is limited by the strength of its back light bulb, which
can be made very strong. LCD televisions do better when faced with
interfering ambiant light than plasma television.

Movie Watching - Overall, plasma televisions offer better color and
picture response than LCD. Picture response is a measure of how fast
the picture can adopt to rapid changes in color. If the response is
slow, a rapid change looks like a fade-in. Therefore, plasma screens
are more suitable for fast action movies.

Computer Use - LCD televisions are more suitable to double up as
computer screens because they are not susceptible to screen burn-in
caused by static pictures as plasma televisions are. LCDs are also
lighter and thinner than plasma displays, and therefore fit on a desk.

Video Games - Video games tend to have plenty of static imagery as
well, and therefore screen burn-in is a concern for plasma
televisions. But, plasma TV's superior color and response might make
it worth getting for great video game play, especially for fast action
3D games.

Operation in High Altitudes - Plasma televisions may have problems
operating in high altitudes above about 6000 feet. Therefore, if you
live high up, you might want to get an LCD TV instead.

Plasma vs. LCD - Other Factors to Consider
Energy Consumption - LCD televisions consume much less power than plasma.

Price - Plasma televisions are generally cheaper than LCD televisions
of comparable screen size.

Screen Size - Plasma televisions are available in larger screen sizes
than LCD TVs, but LCDs still come at respectable 40+ inches of screen
size.

Weight and Size - LCD televisions are thinner, and much lighter than
plasma televisions, and therefore easier to ship and mount on a wall.

<pre>°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°`°¤o \\// o¤°`°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°
And the sign says "You got to have a membership card to get inside" Huh
So I got me a pen and paper And I made up my own little sign</pre>

mozzartusm · Feb 14, 2005

That was some good info to know. This one is a panasonic and has that burn proof technology so that is a plus also. I would have never thought about the Widescreen part. I watch most movies in widescreen. The black lines never would have crossed my mind.

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Crashman · Feb 14, 2005

High-Definition Content Protection? You don't need to worry about it. Why? When you go from DVI to HDMI, you're going from a non-protected source to a protection-enabled device. Since the source has no HDCP, the TV won't "see" a problem.

So going from DVI to HDMI shouldn't present a problem. Going from HDMI to DVI could.

Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!
Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!

mozzartusm · Feb 14, 2005

Ok, so as long as the DVI is on the video card its ok. If it were reversed then it would be a problem.

Thanks for the info

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Crashman · Feb 14, 2005

Yes, it should be easy to see how it's much easier to go from a non-secure format to a secure format than vice versa.

Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!
Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!

RichPLS · Feb 14, 2005

<A HREF="http://displays.engadget.com/entry/1234000000030179/" target="_new"> 30" Gateway LCD $1800 </A>
Just trolled across this, and thought you might want a look...

<pre>°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°`°¤o \\// o¤°`°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°
And the sign says "You got to have a membership card to get inside" Huh
So I got me a pen and paper And I made up my own little sign</pre>

marneus · Feb 14, 2005

Cat 5.1s & my R9700 pro supports 1280 x720 so i cant see why the x800xl wouldnt...

Trust me I know what I'm doing... ooops, grab the cat...

TheGreatGrapeApe · Feb 15, 2005

HDCP still relies on the Handshake so if any content (like a DVD) that requires it, when played on the PC may cause problems. I've just read alot of issue with people having colour (as in only coming through black and white) and contrast issues when using DVI to HDMI from the computer, and all the Mfr's have been saying it's related to HDCP.

Also it's seeming rather hit and miss for many people depending on Mfr.

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! - RED GREEN GA to SK :evil:

Crashman · Feb 15, 2005

He's considering EDTV, which is a lower resolution, with close matches available with these cards.

Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!
Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!

ATI X800XL = Plasma?

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