ATI's future, from the horse's mouth

Pettytheft

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<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1463&p=1" target="_new">http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1463&p=1</A>

If you take a truth and follow it blindly, it will become a Falsehood and you a Fanatic.
 
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I thought it was an ANNOYING Q&A session. :mad: Well, maybe I am just cranky today, but answers like that get on my nerves. Most readers understand that some questions can't be directly answered or some information can't be given away. But executive double-speak like Dave Orton gave get's ridiculous. Hey Dave: straight truth is best, and if you can't or choose not to answer something, just say so. You aren't fooling anybody with your tangential answers. Examples (points of interest have been bolded by me):

Q. <font color=red> We have heard ATI's stance on Windows 2000 drivers <b> time and time again. What is preventing ATI </b> from releasing drivers that perform properly under Windows 2000? </font color=red>

A. <font color=green> ATI is dedicated to providing solid drivers under Windows® 2000. We have made great strides in closing the performance gap between Windows® 2000 and Windows® 98. We will continue to focus on product performance with further optimizations to the Windows® 2000 RADEON™ driver. </font color=green>

Where did he answer <b> WHAT IS PREVENTING ATI? </b>

THE TRUTH: "We were barely able to release Win 98 drivers (such as they were) when the Radeon came out, much less Windows 2000 drivers. Now that we have received huge amounts of public backlash from it, we have been scrambling to get some good W2K drivers out the door, but with our underpowered driver team this is quite a challenge."

THE POLISHED VERSION HE SHOULD HAVE GIVEN: "We regret that we did not have the resources to develop good W2K drivers for release with the card. We have since rectified this situation by enlarging our driver dev team, and have made W2K drivers a top priority. We will release them as soon as they are up to the high standards that Radeon owners demand."

Q. <font color=red> What is ATI's current schedule for public beta driver releases? </font color=red>

A. <font color=green> <b> ATI is committed to delivering great products for our customers. </b> We will move to a more regular schedule for public beta driver releases. We will be announcing this schedule over the next couple of months. </font color=green>

THE TRUTH: "Our beta schedule is undergoing some changes right now (probably because we're scrambling again.) We will be announcing the schedule over the next couple months."

WHAT HE SHOULD HAVE SAID: The truth (minus the scrambling part.) No big issues on this answer really except why did he have to add in that ATI is committed to greatness crap? *Gag* Take off the phony PR hat and talk to us like we are real people. I promise we won't all rush over to buy NVIDIA stuff because you forgot to mention the commitment of ATI to its customers in at least every other sentence. I don't understand why executives keep thinking that kind of nauseatingly butt-kissing verbosity will placate the masses.

Q. <font color=red> <b> Public perception </b> in the online gaming communities <b> is still low due to the lack of public feedback from ATI </b> on a number of user issues. Are there any plans to allow a <b> public forum on ATI's Website</b>, or to provide <b> more rapid updates to the online FAQs and Guides </b> to address user comments. </font color=red>

A. <font color=green> We do offer a feedback form on our current website and <b>we do post FAQs and guides </b> to address user comments. There are several excellent public forums available today on sites such as <b> Rage3D.com and Radeonic.com. </b></font color=green>

THE TRUTH: "Well the truth is, Anand, that I obviously don't have a clue what you mean. I am going to contradict your facts that you got from the public by saying that we DO update our FAQs often enough to provide good feedback, though I obviously haven't talked to the public myself in years due to our lack of feedback. I am going to tell you that the same facilities that lead to the current feedback problem, like our feedback form on our website, are the answer to the problem. Basically, as a solution to your complaints, I am going to repeat the causes of those complaints back to you, insulting your intelligence by assuming you will think they actually explain something. Then to add insult to injury I am going to say that the public forums on other websites, which ATi neither responds to nor has an interest in, should provide more than enough information from my company for you puny customers." (After all, he mentions Rage3D.com and Radeonic.com AGAIN in his next answer...)

OK so I kinda went off on that one... :eek:

WHAT HE SHOULD HAVE SAID: He should have recognized the need for better feedback and agreed to implement it, or at least look into it.

As a closer I will print a question that he actually answered well:

Q. <font color=red> When will there be a (specific) use for that untapped 3rd texture unit? </font color=red>

A.<font color=green> There has been positive feedback from the development community with respect to the 3rd texture unit. There are currently <b> many top game titles </b> under development that will take advantage of the 3rd texture unit. Expect to see them available by the <b> Christmas 2001 </b> timeframe. </font color=green>

While some specific titles would have been nice, I can understand that he probably couldn't release that, and he did give a specific date. A good answer overall, which makes me wonder why he couldn't have done much better on the others. [/rant]

Cheers,
Warden
 

noko

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LOL :lol: . Well you can't please everybody and now I wonder what Dave Orton going to do with the rapid price reductions of the nVidia chipset cards not to mention the Kyro2 release shortly. I think ATI should be ready for another slow down unless they can meet the challenge.
 
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Yeah, and as you probably know I like ATI's products (even if I blow off a little steam about wangling executives...) I certainly hope their sales remain high enough to keep the Radeon II well funded. :cool:

I wouldn't recommend that anybody buy a card now if they can possibly wait a month. Too many things shaking in the industry and prices are dropping like rocks. :lol:

Cheers,
Warden
 

Pettytheft

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I've been wanting a replacement for my GeForce 256DDR chip. I was thinking GeForce3 until I read this article. At least I know that the Radeon II is not Vaporware. So that card will have to hold me over for a bit longer.

If you take a truth and follow it blindly, it will become a Falsehood and you a Fanatic.
 

rcf84

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Well the Radeon2 looks answome so far. Well isnt the a R400 too. ATi is my pic in the upcoming years.

Northwood P4 + i845(brookdale)+ 200mhz DDR-SDRAM + ATi Radeon 2 = Dream Team :cool:
 

noko

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I am beginning to believe that ATI has some ace's in the bag. A Radeon2 which is virtually ready, Max technology further developed and can be laid on the table anytime. Tremendous success with the Radeons meaning there are alot of Radeons out there which will influence developers to take notice and to use the technology inside. Minimal losses compared to other technology companies. Plus oversea manufacturers that can make the cards dirt cheap, look at the Radeon LE with 32 meg DDR ram for less than $75 while the Kyro2 with SDRAM is priced at close to $150. Interesting times are ahead. I think nVidia maybe the ones in trouble, there bread and butter GTS MX being discarded for the Kyro2 meaning OEM's buying Kyro2s shortly besides the Radeons and the old stock from ATI. Plus the Geforce mobile chip consumes just to much power compared to the Radeon mobility and the S3 Salvage 2000 mobile chips.

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by noko on 04/27/01 06:26 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
 
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Settle down dude.

<b>A Radeon2 which is virtually ready</b>

According to the interview, R-200 will be released in Q4.

<b>Minimal losses compared to other technology companies.</b>

Minimal losses compared to whom? nVidia did make profit you know.

<b>Plus oversea manufacturers that can make the cards dirt cheap, look at the Radeon LE with 32 meg DDR ram for less than $75 while the Kyro2 with SDRAM is priced at close to $150.</b>

There are other things affecting the price besides RAM. Kyro 2 performs much better than Radeon LE so itisn't suprising that it's more expencive.

<b>I think nVidia maybe the ones in trouble, there bread and butter GTS MX being discarded for the Kyro2 meaning OEM's buying Kyro2s shortly</b>

You should know that the performance isn't everything OEM's are interested in. Not even close.
 

noko

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For twice the price I hope the Kyro2 performs better, except the Radeon LEs overclock like a dream. Up to 185mhz without active cooling and up to 205mhz with. When overclocked and HyperZ activated the Radeon LE becomes a Kyro2 hunter :mad: . Look at Ace's Hardware comments about the overclockability of the Kyro2 (virtually zero). Obviously the Kyro2 prices will come down in price to effectively compete.

Will Nvidia make a profit this quarter and next? Couldn't find any current statements from Nvidia site on current profitbility.

So what are OEMs looking for? Let us know.

Did note that Dell will be using the nVidia mobile chip which is good news for nVidia. If card manufacturers will be building Kyro2 cards vice mx cards won't that impact MX sells to OEMs especially if the Kyro cards are cheaper than the MX cards?

The Radeon2 is virtually ready meaning it is up to ATI to decide when to release it. In other words a delay will probably not occur.
 
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you could put radeon le at 400 mhz core ...
kyro still would be better because the badwidth is not an isue...
if you could increase the bandwdth then maybe it will do better, overclocking the mem clock is better for radeon le...
 

noko

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Better at what? Not with the modern game engine Giants, even a regular Radeon smokes the Kyro2. In Serious Sam the Kyro2 does smokes the Radeon. A game I enjoy allot at max settings on my Radeon. Also Kyro2 smokes the Radeon in FSAA hands down but not as good as the FSAA on the GF3 which is very impressive. Your right about the limit of increasing the core of the Radeon beyond the memory because the memory becomes the limitation. If you increase both mem/core then the Radeon takes off in performance. Still the GF2 lines take off more when the memory speed is increased due to the 4 pixel pipeline abiltiy. The Radeon has many advance features that can outpace the Kyro2 card when used such as tweening between frames which will make facial expressions and animations possible besides the myriad of other possibilities with that built in advance feature.

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by noko on 04/27/01 09:19 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
 

Pettytheft

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You two are hilarious.

Battling across the boards the way your are!!

If you take a truth and follow it blindly, it will become a Falsehood and you a Fanatic.
 

Pettytheft

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Is there any plans for the Kyro to make a "Ultra" type card. I would like to see what it could do with a ramped up clock and some DDR on it.

Or is it going strictly for the budget market?

If you take a truth and follow it blindly, it will become a Falsehood and you a Fanatic.
 
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word is that the kyroII can't go any further due to architecture, and I think they'd rather put out the kyroIII to avoid current issues at hand with the kyroII.
 

noko

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Doesn't look like the Kyro2 will be able to go up in speed at least currently. Oh but the Radeon and GF2s sure can. Anyways what are we battling for?

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by noko on 04/28/01 01:30 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
 
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Radeon Le is a strange one, unfortunately they're not on sale in Finland :(

You're right, Q1 results aren't available yet so I was little hasty there :p

Price is a very important thing for OEM's and MX is much cheaper than Kyro 2. Reliability is also important, for games to work the card should need as little driver updates and patches as possible. It'll take some time for Kyro 2 to establish it's reputation (if it does).

Why do you think that Radeon 2 is almost ready? Everything I've heard says that it'll be launched at Q4. At the moment nVidia has clear leed in performance area so I'd think that ATI would release Radeon 2 as soon as possible, or atleast make some noice of it so that peoplemight wait to see hot it does instead of buying some other card right now.
 

noko

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If there sources are accurate then Radeon 2 is around the corner. Hopefully ATI starts promoting this new technology. At least give us a feel for what is coming up.

<A HREF="http://www.theinquirer.net/21040103.htm" target="_new">http://www.theinquirer.net/21040103.htm</A>
 

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