Hi. I'm planning to build a Ryzen 3rd generation setup. I was running a 4th generation Intel i5 PC, and I've sold it. So my problem here is, Ryzen won't be released until 2 more months or so, right? I'll have to keep my other pc components without working until then. So I was thinking, why not get an AM4 motherboard now with a Ryzen 3 1300 and upgrade the CPU alone when ryzen 3rd gen gets released. I'm looking at an MSI B450 motherboard. I know X570 and B550 boards are getting released. But would there be many differences between them and a B450? I've got a GTX 1660, which I'm not planning to upgrade anytime soon. So I don't think I need PCIe 4.0 support. Other than that, any considerable feature differences?
Solution
Yeah. Thanks. But I live in India, so I'll pick it up from another store.
By the way, I was checking out the reviews for ROG Strix B450-F and saw many people mentioning about the MSI B450 Gaming Pro Carbon AC being the best out there. What do you think? Saw them saying it has better VRM. But I'm unfamiliar with any of those two. So I'll let someone with more idea tell me.
Darkbreeze
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I'm probably not the best person to ask about the suitability or reliability of any low to mid tiered motherboard. I'm not particularly fond of MSI except on some of their higher end offerings because I simply have seen them repeatedly have higher than what is normal across the board for Gigabyte, ASUS and ASRock failure rates on these boards both on my work bench and here on TH. There are detractors here who disagree, but there are also quite a few veteran members who agree due to seeing the same quality control issues I have.
In light of that, I tend to avoid MSI entirely, unless there is a unique deal on a board that is not a budget offering that makes it stand out from the pack in terms of value. Never seen any unusual issues with MSI in general, as their graphics cards are quite good and their customer service is good, but personally I want a board that I don't NEED to make use of their good customer service because that means I'm going to be without that system, or my customer is, for some time.
I'm not saying THAT particular board falls into that category, but I'm not saying it doesn't either. If you are not one of the unlucky ones, then I'm sure it will work. You should keep in mind also that some of these VRM configuration specifications used by these companies are artificially inflated and professional reviews have shown many of them to actually be significantly lower power phase designs than what is marketed, so be sure to look at professional reviews of any board model you wish to go with. Don't simply take the advice of fools like myself or anybody else when it comes to determining the fitness of any particular hardware component, as a rule. No matter how well versed or experienced they may be.
An in depth teardown or review of any potential component is always a good idea and is much better than fifty people saying "this is good because it worked for me and I trust this company".
In light of that, I tend to avoid MSI entirely, unless there is a unique deal on a board that is not a budget offering that makes it stand out from the pack in terms of value. Never seen any unusual issues with MSI in general, as their graphics cards are quite good and their customer service is good, but personally I want a board that I don't NEED to make use of their good customer service because that means I'm going to be without that system, or my customer is, for some time.
I'm not saying THAT particular board falls into that category, but I'm not saying it doesn't either. If you are not one of the unlucky ones, then I'm sure it will work. You should keep in mind also that some of these VRM configuration specifications used by these companies are artificially inflated and professional reviews have shown many of them to actually be significantly lower power phase designs than what is marketed, so be sure to look at professional reviews of any board model you wish to go with. Don't simply take the advice of fools like myself or anybody else when it comes to determining the fitness of any particular hardware component, as a rule. No matter how well versed or experienced they may be.
An in depth teardown or review of any potential component is always a good idea and is much better than fifty people saying "this is good because it worked for me and I trust this company".
I understand. I'll look around for reviews and stuff. But then, I read that ROG Strix has an io shroud or something that blocks airflow, thereby affecting temperatures of VRM? I'm not entirely sure what they mean, but is it that big plastic thing behind io ports?
Darkbreeze
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The gaming Pro carbon AC has an I/O shroud as well. Not quite as big as the one on the B450-F, but it has one. I don't particularly see it as being a problem. None of the reviews I've seen have called it out as problematic for airflow either. Non-issue to me. In fact, pretty much all these B450 and X470 boards have similar I/O shrouds.
Well then I don't see a problem getting the ROG. In fact, I prefer an Asus as well because of warranty issues. If anything happens it's easier to claim a warranty on Asus products here I my area. It will be a bit hard if it's MSI. So, if the shroud is nothing to worry about, then why wouldn't i love an ROG product in my build! 😅
Purely from a VRM perspective, I don't know if the Pro Carbon is worth the extra money over the Tomahawk, or even a MSI B450-A Pro, as they all have nearly the same VRM config. The B450M Mortar you mentioned before is actually a pretty decent board, and is great bang for the buck.
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Darkbreeze
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Great bang for the buck is, IMO, highly subjective. Granted, for a budget entry it's probably fine. It also seems that it doesn't specifically have significant throttling issues. However, reviews seem to suggest that there ARE other concerns with the B450 Mortar.
Really, there are few professional reviews of that board that are reputable. A couple, but mostly there are only a few and most of them are quick comparison reviews of the paper specs for ten or more boards from that chipset like the one on Anandtech. And usually, when there are not at least two or three GOOD reputable reviews, it's because reviewers don't feel like it is worthy enough to warranty purchasing one for review AND/OR the manufacturer doesn't particularly want that model reviewed because it knows it has flaws that will be likely to come into the light if it gets looked at too closely. In other words, it usually means "not worth reviewing".
I'm not saying that's the case, in THIS case, with THIS board, but in general, that holds true.
That being said, it does seem like the VRM configuration on that board holds up well in the review sample on Bit-tech, but that is the only review I see that is from a fairly reputable reviewer and in any depth at all. I don't particularly trust singular reviews. We've seen problems with that before like the EVGA B3 series power supplies that were touted as being a good value by a number of sites, and yet when Aris got around to testing them legitimately, all but one model in the series failed testing horrendously. So, if there are not multiple reviews I have a hard time recommending them, but again, I don't have a lot of concrete evidence to mount against that board either aside from MSI's reputation and history when it comes to their budget or lower mid tiered motherboard product stack. They got better for a while, but I have seen a trend back the other way for a while now.
Maybe it's just me. Maybe it's not.
Really, there are few professional reviews of that board that are reputable. A couple, but mostly there are only a few and most of them are quick comparison reviews of the paper specs for ten or more boards from that chipset like the one on Anandtech. And usually, when there are not at least two or three GOOD reputable reviews, it's because reviewers don't feel like it is worthy enough to warranty purchasing one for review AND/OR the manufacturer doesn't particularly want that model reviewed because it knows it has flaws that will be likely to come into the light if it gets looked at too closely. In other words, it usually means "not worth reviewing".
I'm not saying that's the case, in THIS case, with THIS board, but in general, that holds true.
That being said, it does seem like the VRM configuration on that board holds up well in the review sample on Bit-tech, but that is the only review I see that is from a fairly reputable reviewer and in any depth at all. I don't particularly trust singular reviews. We've seen problems with that before like the EVGA B3 series power supplies that were touted as being a good value by a number of sites, and yet when Aris got around to testing them legitimately, all but one model in the series failed testing horrendously. So, if there are not multiple reviews I have a hard time recommending them, but again, I don't have a lot of concrete evidence to mount against that board either aside from MSI's reputation and history when it comes to their budget or lower mid tiered motherboard product stack. They got better for a while, but I have seen a trend back the other way for a while now.
Maybe it's just me. Maybe it's not.
I don't consider high idle power draw to be a deal breaker, but to each there own. And that's something that can potentially be addressed through a BIOS update or tweaking some settings, unlike poor VRMs or other hardware issues that can't really be helped.
rigg42
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I'm not aware of pricing in your area. How much more is it to step up to the ROG Strix X470-F? That board has a much better VRM than the ROG Strix B450-F.
Darkbreeze
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For the warranty purposes if nothing else, I think that if the ASUS has better regional support then it's probably worth the premium over the MSI. If not, considering the limited and costly availability of hardware in your region you could do worse than the Mortar board if you needed to go that route.
Even I prefer an Asus board because of the warranty purposes. But many reviews i read inbetween says the STRIX VRM is okay, but not the best. Meaning, it's the same VRM that is used in most of the other lower quality Asus boards like the TUF B450, and even the B350, according to some buildzoid youtuber.
The MSI B450 Carbon is regarded as a great choice thanks to the nice VRM MSI uses in it, which is the same one in X470 version of their board according to those reviews, and pretty good cooling technology. But the feature it lacks is a voltage offset or something in bios, which might cause some problem with PBO. I didn't even know what that meant since I've never been an overclocking guy. So I googled it and found it to be something that helps adjust the voltage manually so as to reduce temperature during Precision boost overdrive.
Keeping in mind what you said about the failure rates, if MSI has an upper hand in all those areas, do you think it's worth the risk? I'm a bit concerned about the VRM in STRIX 450 since they say it's nothing exceptional, just as those lower end boards. On the other hand, MSI as they say has a VRM which is the same as their higher version board. What differences do you think exist when it comes to quality of the components? Also, do they both have a 4+2 phase VRM? I can't really get an idea coz some say it's 4+2, some say it's 8+4 LOL.
All the B450 boards that have been mentioned in this thread are 4 phase for the CPU core power (there are no B450 boards with more than 4 phases for the core, except for a couple 6 phase mini itx boards). Some places will refer to them as 8 phase because they look like that is some ways, but they're not.
Most manufacturers have entry level X470 boards that use the same VRM config as their mid-upper range B450 boards. The Pro Carbon has a virtually identical VRM config to the B450 A Pro and Tomahawk, as well as the X470 gaming plus. The B450 Gaming Plus and Mortar also use a similar config, just different FETs. You can see a list of VRM configs and parts here: https://www.hardwareluxx.de/community/f12/pga-am4-mainboard-vrm-liste-1155146.html
Unfortunately that can't tell you how effective the heatsinks used on any particular board are, which is another important part of VRM performance.
Most manufacturers have entry level X470 boards that use the same VRM config as their mid-upper range B450 boards. The Pro Carbon has a virtually identical VRM config to the B450 A Pro and Tomahawk, as well as the X470 gaming plus. The B450 Gaming Plus and Mortar also use a similar config, just different FETs. You can see a list of VRM configs and parts here: https://www.hardwareluxx.de/community/f12/pga-am4-mainboard-vrm-liste-1155146.html
Unfortunately that can't tell you how effective the heatsinks used on any particular board are, which is another important part of VRM performance.
Darkbreeze
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^^^That. For the most part, they are similar. Which is why in the beginning of this thread I suggested that looking at X470 if you plan to use an 8 or higher core processor when you go to the 3000 series, might be a good idea. I understand your limited availability though.
Also, regardless that the power phase might LOOK to be the same from board to board, there can be differences in the QUALITY of the VRM components used, the implementation of the VRM configuration and the cooling/heatsink configuration. Which is why looking at PROFESSIONAL reviews is important because the generally test for throttling these days if the review is a thorough one.
Also, regardless that the power phase might LOOK to be the same from board to board, there can be differences in the QUALITY of the VRM components used, the implementation of the VRM configuration and the cooling/heatsink configuration. Which is why looking at PROFESSIONAL reviews is important because the generally test for throttling these days if the review is a thorough one.
Darkbreeze
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So, Strix is a family of products. Which boards specifically do you want to look at? The B450-F and Pro carbon?
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/msi-b450-gaming-pro-carbon-ac,6006.html
ASUS ROG STRIX B450-F Gaming Motherboard Review
The latest wave of motherboards from AMD have just landed, and they’re out to impress. While not as feature packed as the current Ryzen flagship X470 series, they’re focusing on a balance between…
www.eteknix.com
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/msi-b450-gaming-pro-carbon-ac,6006.html
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Here are a few reviews of the Asus ROG Strix B450-F Gaming:
https://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/cpu_mainboard/asus_rog_strix_b450-f_gaming_review/16
https://www.vortez.net/articles_pages/rog_strix_b450_f_gaming_review.html
https://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/cpu_mainboard/asus_rog_strix_b450-f_gaming_review/16
https://www.vortez.net/articles_pages/rog_strix_b450_f_gaming_review.html
Infact I checked that review. It mentions about the excellent Vreg cooling of MSI b450 boards. What actually is Vreg? Is it something related to VRM?So, Strix is a family of products. Which boards specifically do you want to look at? The B450-F and Pro carbon?
ASUS ROG STRIX B450-F Gaming Motherboard Review
The latest wave of motherboards from AMD have just landed, and they’re out to impress. While not as feature packed as the current Ryzen flagship X470 series, they’re focusing on a balance between…www.eteknix.com
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/msi-b450-gaming-pro-carbon-ac,6006.html
Will check out. Thanks
Vreg and VRM are synonymous. Both mean Voltage Regulator (Module).
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Yes,
Vregs = VRM (Voltage Regulation Module).
Another Asus ROG Strix B450-F Gaming review:
www.google.com
Vregs = VRM (Voltage Regulation Module).
Another Asus ROG Strix B450-F Gaming review:
ASUS ROG STRIX B450-F Gaming Motherboard Review – GND-Tech
Today we'll be taking an in-depth look at one of ASUS's newer AM4 Ryzen boards, the ROG STRIX B450-F gaming motherboard. This particular motherboard is targeted towards gamers
www.google.com
Darkbreeze
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That sounds more like me lol. I'm maybe overthinking this. I check out forums, and some say B450 won't be able to handle the 8 core Zen 2 very well. Some say they even overclock a 2700X without any problem on it. So it's kinda mixed opinions. That's what confuses me. I just want to be sue that I wouldn't regret getting a B450 motherboard for a Ryzen 3000. I guess I'll narrow it down to 2 options. ROG STRIX B450-F and MSI B450 CARBON PRO AC. Asus has an upper hand in warranty and customer service, as well as a better BIOS if what I read all these while are to be trusted. And MSI is said to be superior in VRM quality and cooling compared to Asus. Apart from that there's not much differences. I guess I'll have to get the one with a better deal in online stores here.
By the way, I purposefully avoided the gigabyte version because its customer service is nowhere near the other two here.
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