Question B650 OR B650E for Ryzen 7900 with PBO on all the time ?

[Jayant Arora]

Hey Guys,
I'm planning on upgrading to 7000 series. Although i'm not on a budget constraint, but i don't want to waste my money on things i don't use.
- Already bought
RAM : TeamGroup T-Force Vulcan Alpha 32GB 6000Mhz @ 38-38-38-78
CPU : AMD R9 7900 [Non-X]
Not sure on motherboard. That Pcie-gen 5 will be use of mine in any case.
My use case:

• 8-12 Hours daily use.
• Heavy Gaming - AAA titles mostly
• Heavy Programming: Android Studio, React Native on VS Code, Spring booot on IntelliJ, Run various Emulators simulatenoulsy etc.
• Designing : Mostly Online Chrome/Web apps. 16 Tabs at most. and Minor Photoshop.
• Number of SSD ports matters. Have like 4 ssds[2 nvme PCIE Gen 3X4 and 2 sata] + 1 SATA HDD and will require more SSDs in future.

I've come around two final choices for motherboard:

1. Gigabyte B650 Gaming X AX (Wi-Fi) Link: Priced at 20K INR USD 240 [it has 3 nvme ports]
2. B650E PG Riptide WiFi Link: Priced at 24.5K INR USD 300

So question is will the Gigabyte one be enough to handle 7900 with PBO on all the time [@200 watts] on a daily basis use ?
I will be saving some bucks and spending on SSDs.
Also note: i'm selling my x570 Aorus Elite borad and still haven't utilised any 4th gen pcie ssd cause in my use case i never needed it, so i felt oportunity wasted.
Also at that time b550 wan't there i was early adopter.
I am happy with PCIE gen3X4 [3000-3400Mbps] speeds are enough for me.

Please reply soon.

 

[Darkbreeze]

You bought RAM "before" buying a motherboard? Well, that was screw up number one. You buy RAM AFTER choosing a motherboard, so you can make sure it is compatible with the motherboard you buy unless you are planning to buy a board while being limited to only models that are compatible with the memory kit you already bought. And no, they are not all compatible with every board even if they are the right TYPE of memory and within the speed limitations for the board. There are a few exceptions, kind of, to this, such as the very few memory kits that are specifically designed to be compatible with Ryzen platforms but even then not all of them will necessarily work easily, right out of the box, or at all, with some boards.

This is exactly WHY motherboard manufacturers have a QVL list and why memory manufacturers have compatibility lists of their own. Well, the major ones do anyhow like G.Skill, Corsair and Crucial. Others, not necessarily. Which is why I almost always recommend sticking to the big players so you can verify compatibility unless you are able to find confirmed proven evidence that a given memory kit has been shown to work fine with a given board. Especially on a platform that has not had time to mature yet.

So that is one potential problem you should be aware of. Sometimes it's not a problem. Other times, it's absolutely a no go.

B650 does not support PCIe 5.0. It is 4.0 only, so if you want PCIe 5.0 then it will be no choice, and only B650e. If you re fine with Gen 3 speeds than either of them is fine and it will be only the MODEL of the motherboard that matters in terms of the VRM configuration.

If running PBO and not running into VRM problems is your main concern, and those two boards are the only options you are considering, then the PG Riptide is probably the better option as it has a 14+2+1 VRM configuration compared to an 8+2+1 on the X AX WiFi.

What I CAN'T yet seem to find is a breakdown of the ACTUAL components used on either of these boards VRMs because there are caveats that might make a seemingly lesser VRM actually a better option based on whether doublers, twin or actual power phases are what is in use on any given board.

Reviews of the PG Riptide in the B650 chipset were pretty good though and that had a lesser VRM configuration so I'd guess that B650E to be the better of the two BUT if we are being honest and you are wanting to run an R9 7900 with PBO on all the time then you should probably honestly be looking at a much better board, plus also a really decent CPU cooler and you should absolutely not overlook the importance of having very good case cooling because the heatsinks that come on any board with a substantial VRM configuration don't do much good without enough airflow over them to make them worth being there.

 

[Jayant Arora]

You bought RAM "before" buying a motherboard? Well, that was screw up number one. You buy RAM AFTER choosing a motherboard, so you can make sure it is compatible with the motherboard you buy unless you are planning to buy a board while being limited to only models that are compatible with the memory kit you already bought. And no, they are not all compatible with every board even if they are the right TYPE of memory and within the speed limitations for the board. There are a few exceptions, kind of, to this, such as the very few memory kits that are specifically designed to be compatible with Ryzen platforms but even then not all of them will necessarily work easily, right out of the box, or at all, with some boards.

This is exactly WHY motherboard manufacturers have a QVL list and why memory manufacturers have compatibility lists of their own. Well, the major ones do anyhow like G.Skill, Corsair and Crucial. Others, not necessarily. Which is why I almost always recommend sticking to the big players so you can verify compatibility unless you are able to find confirmed proven evidence that a given memory kit has been shown to work fine with a given board. Especially on a platform that has not had time to mature yet.

So that is one potential problem you should be aware of. Sometimes it's not a problem. Other times, it's absolutely a no go.

B650 does not support PCIe 5.0. It is 4.0 only, so if you want PCIe 5.0 then it will be no choice, and only B650e. If you re fine with Gen 3 speeds than either of them is fine and it will be only the MODEL of the motherboard that matters in terms of the VRM configuration.

If running PBO and not running into VRM problems is your main concern, and those two boards are the only options you are considering, then the PG Riptide is probably the better option as it has a 14+2+1 VRM configuration compared to an 8+2+1 on the X AX WiFi.

What I CAN'T yet seem to find is a breakdown of the ACTUAL components used on either of these boards VRMs because there are caveats that might make a seemingly lesser VRM actually a better option based on whether doublers, twin or actual power phases are what is in use on any given board.

Reviews of the PG Riptide in the B650 chipset were pretty good though and that had a lesser VRM configuration so I'd guess that B650E to be the better of the two BUT if we are being honest and you are wanting to run an R9 7900 with PBO on all the time then you should probably honestly be looking at a much better board, plus also a really decent CPU cooler and you should absolutely not overlook the importance of having very good case cooling because the heatsinks that come on any board with a substantial VRM configuration don't do much good without enough airflow over them to make them worth being there.

1. I'm in process of building the pc so i update you soon whether the gigabyte and ram combo worked or not.
2. Secondly I don't have to worry about cooling cause I'm I already running a custom loop and I just added another radiator.
3. It takes time to build since it's with custom loop so pls wait and i

Thank you for your support, I'll update you soon.

 

[Jayant Arora]

1. I'm in process of building the pc so i update you soon whether the gigabyte and ram combo worked or not.
2. Secondly I don't have to worry about cooling cause I'm I already running a custom loop and I just added another radiator.
3. It takes time to build since it's with custom loop so pls wait and i

Thank you for your support, I'll update you soon.

Ok now I have it setup.

• Well gigabyte didn't support the ram expo profile out of the box, it defaults to 5200 cl42 configuration.
• I updated bios from rev 2.0 to 3.0, tiried expo profile, it didn't work.
• Again I went into the BIOS and In BIOS two new options i see with rev 3 version.

A. DDR5 High memory Bandwidth support.
B. DDR 5 Lo latency support.
.i enable both of them with Expo memory profile enabled.
Volla!! It worked.

GG

 

[Darkbreeze]

Nice. Like I said, sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you don't. Fortunately luck with on your side this time or rather you just weren't one of the UN-lucky ones, which is a good thing. Fewer problems is always better.

It's great that you have a custom loop, but does that loop extend to the VRMs? Do you have a mono-block setup on your loop for the VRMs? I'd be pretty surprised if you do since those are board specific and you didn't even know what board you were going with until just recently.

And what that means is, your loop not only has nothing at all to do with keeping the VRM configuration cool, but it actually results in a worse situation than if you had a decent air cooler because at least then you'd get SOME residual airflow over the VRMs and so that brings us back to exactly what I said in the first place which is, having good case airflow becomes highly important because you NEED some decent air movement over those VRM heatsinks or you almost certainly will end up with at least some minimal kind of throttling especially since it seems you went with the board that has the worst VRM configuration of the two boards you were looking at.

Not sure, honestly, why you even bothered to ask about opinions on which board would be better for a PBO full time type configuration if you were not going to at least consider the advice anyhow. Hopefully it all works out for you though.

 

[Jayant Arora]

Nice. Like I said, sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you don't. Fortunately luck with on your side this time or rather you just weren't one of the UN-lucky ones, which is a good thing. Fewer problems is always better.

It's great that you have a custom loop, but does that loop extend to the VRMs? Do you have a mono-block setup on your loop for the VRMs? I'd be pretty surprised if you do since those are board specific and you didn't even know what board you were going with until just recently.

And what that means is, your loop not only has nothing at all to do with keeping the VRM configuration cool, but it actually results in a worse situation than if you had a decent air cooler because at least then you'd get SOME residual airflow over the VRMs and so that brings us back to exactly what I said in the first place which is, having good case airflow becomes highly important because you NEED some decent air movement over those VRM heatsinks or you almost certainly will end up with at least some minimal kind of throttling especially since it seems you went with the board that has the worst VRM configuration of the two boards you were looking at.

Not sure, honestly, why you even bothered to ask about opinions on which board would be better for a PBO full time type configuration if you were not going to at least consider the advice anyhow. Hopefully it all works out for you though.

Yes I might got lucky with RAM,l

Good point, VRM cooling, I don't have monoblock. But I can manage airflow on vrms. I'm building in Lian Li O11 D(first version), been using it since it came out first, already have like 9 fans, i can manage a 80mm intake fan on the rear side so it will blow air in to the motherboard top half section, it think it wil spoil the look of the build. May be i don't need it because I ran cpu-z stress test don't see vrm going above 60'C, yet have to run some tests to verify that.

 

[Darkbreeze]

If you have an 011 dynamic with nine fans, then you have plenty of airflow through the case so long as you have those fans configured as recommended. And, if you DO end up having ANY issues with VRM throttling, you can always consider adding better thermal pads between the heatsinks and the VRMs as well as potentially adding a VRM fan or changing your loop to incorporate VRM blocks later on. I don't think you'll have a problem though with the stock configuration and PBO. Maybe if you were seriously overclocking. You'll know before long I suspect.

I'd recommend downloading HWinfo, installing it, choose "Sensors only" and make sure "Summary" is not selected and then keep an eye on the various thermal sensors including the area that reports thermal throttling as "yes or no". Just open it and run whatever you do that is most demanding then check it later to see if it throttled at all.

 

[Jayant Arora]

If you have an 011 dynamic with nine fans, then you have plenty of airflow through the case so long as you have those fans configured as recommended. And, if you DO end up having ANY issues with VRM throttling, you can always consider adding better thermal pads between the heatsinks and the VRMs as well as potentially adding a VRM fan or changing your loop to incorporate VRM blocks later on. I don't think you'll have a problem though with the stock configuration and PBO. Maybe if you were seriously overclocking. You'll know before long I suspect.

I'd recommend downloading HWinfo, installing it, choose "Sensors only" and make sure "Summary" is not selected and then keep an eye on the various thermal sensors including the area that reports thermal throttling as "yes or no". Just open it and run whatever you do that is most demanding then check it later to see if it throttled at all.

Ok, i 'm aware of hw Info, i know a better tool, i need some time to set it up, i'll post it here soon. Hope you will like that.
For now The build is done on h/w front here's the pic: LINK LINK2


Now onto installing s/w stuff.

 

[Darkbreeze]

What "better tool" is it that you know? Ryzen master? That is useful too but doesn't generally show or report throttling of VRMs. Aside from that, there are no "better" tools that I am aware of.

HWmonitor, Open hardware monitor, Speccy, Speedfan, and any other monitoring tools out there ALL suffer by comparison to HWinfo. They are NOT as religiously updated, they all have tendencies to misreport some of the thermal sensors, or mix them up, or not report them at all, and while Core Temp is very good for some monitoring features it does not monitor VRM throttling either.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Looks damn nice.

 

[Jayant Arora]

Hey!! Mr. /Ms/Mrs.
Darkbreeze

The "Other" Software is called 'Trigone Remote System Monitor' it's in Beta, I am a beta user so i have access to the android app also while server app is free.
AMD is trying to make a replica of this concept also, but still not yet available to public i think.

Advantage of this is real time stats without taking your screen space : you can have all sensors data onto a phone screen so that if you want to eye ball say VRM temps while you are doing something on your screen you can simply see the phone display sitting next to you.
With HwINfo you have to switch from task to task to see the stats or with MSI After Burner you can make a OCDto see stats in real time, but will take your screen space. It could be your personal choice what you like more.

I find it very convinient and cool way to monitor stats. Since i am an Android Developer my self i have lots of android device spare to use.

See the screenshots below:

Link 1: Setup with App Looks like
Link 2: Idle 1 Idle 2
Link 3: Under Load

Hope you like this, their beta program is just i think $2 only, you can join if u like.

Adios!!

 

[Darkbreeze]

You can use that if you want. You'll never catch me using ANY piece of software that explicitly asks for access to some of the services that one seems to, and, a quick Google search seems to suggest that it has popped up more than once on the radar of some of the exploit databases. So again, that's great if you don't mind giving whoever is developing that unrestricted access to your machine, but I would never recommend ANYBODY else use it. Not until such time as some of the major players have reviewed it and given it a thumbs up, and maybe not then. NZXT CAM is broadly accepted too and that piece of crap is about the worst data collecting phone home resource hogging pile of steaming dog doo I've ever seen from a supposedly legitimate company.

No such problems, nor even conversation of such problems, using trusted utilities like HWinfo, Core Temp, etc. But, that's just my opinion too so you know, grain of salt and all that.