[SOLVED] Bandwidth... how much is good enough?

[lv2lrn4lf]

So I'm looking to provide a streaming services where I stream multiple live feeds out. My questions is how much bandwidth would I need for this?


I use a website to test my bandwidth: Ping ms 5 Download Mbps 46.88 Upload Mbps 5.59. A site say the average is 18gbps.

I came across two different set up plans from at&t and want to ask my eggheads which one is good for my use case and is the plan i have right now good enough to not bother. i could be stream from 3-6 live feed daily and at the most 6-8 and at the peek 12 video live feed are leaving out. A lot of people say 12 live feed is crazy so if you would give me three answers please. One aim at 3-6 daily, another aim at 6-8 and another aim at 8-12.

check out thse two internet plans:

consumer plans:
https://www.att.com/internet/?source=ECs5000000000000L

business plans:
https://www.attsavings.com/business/internet

seem like the none businesses one is a good deal. Which one you think is better, or is my internet good enough. And why does business plan look crappy?

 

[13thmonkey]

You've built the streaming app, surely you know the bandwidth you are streaming at? then just multiply it up and add 20%? for headroom and overheads.

 

[USAFRet]

So I'm looking to provide a streaming services ...

None of those.

1. You really need a business level plan. This provides a more secure connection. What is known as an SLA (Service Level Agreement).
2. However, even that 500Mbps plan @$250/month is only 8Mbps up. Not nearly enough to supply multiple simultaneous video streams to outside users.

A single 720p video needs about 3.5Mbps upload out of your environment.
https://www.tomsguide.com/us/how-much-bandwidth-do-i-need-to-stream-on-twitch,review-5035.html
That $250 plan from AT&T would serve 2 external users.


What research have you done to determine what you need for this?
I believe "bandwidth" was mentioned as a major limiting factor in your earlier threads on this.

 

[lv2lrn4lf]

at this site: https://telestreamforum.forumbee.com/t/h48wm2/how-much-bandwidth-for-multiple-output-streams

I read this:
Jake Feldman Our Tech Specs. You may have CPU issues if you're not using at least a recent i5 and for multiple destinations you may want a recent Quad i7 CPU.

i3 might be work for one destination with a very simple source but it's not something we'd recommend.

So is a 2x Intel Xeon E5-2670 2.6GHz Eight Core CPU's good enough?

And I talk to a guy who do live streams and say that my
current service would allow at most two streams since I have double what he have for upload speed.

And at this site:https://www.soundandvision.com/content/how-much-bandwidth-do-you-need-streaming-video

They speak of router being a problem too:
AV router like Netgear's WNDR 4500, D-Link's Amplifi, or Western Digital's MyNet900.

 

[USAFRet]

Sounds like you need to up your budget, both in hardware and monthly bandwidth costs.

And by "research", I actually meant trying a full quality upload to an outside user, and see what continual bandwidth that consumes.
Multiply for your expected number of users.

At some point, you have to stop "reading", and start "doing".

 

[bill001g]

Now you are asking very different questions. The CPU requirements are going to depend on the encoder software you are using. In addition the cpu load depends a lot on the content since something that has a lot of change take more effort to compress than a static screen image.

The network side is more straight forward. Almost all the encoding software you set the bit rate you want and the encoding software will attempt to compress the data down to that limit. So your network usage is pretty easy if you can select all the bit rates you want to use.

Be aware the bit rate directly affects your cpu usage and has a major effect on the maximum quality you can send.

What I don't understand is why you are trying to jump into some large project rather than learn how things work with 1 stream and then increase and see what you need to change.

 

[lv2lrn4lf]

Sounds like you need to up your budget, both in hardware and monthly bandwidth costs.

And by "research", I actually meant trying a full quality upload to an outside user, and see what continual bandwidth that consumes.
Multiply for your expected number of users.

At some point, you have to stop "reading", and start "doing".

I been start doing stuff.... Have most of the software done... Really I came here for some suggestions on a system but it hard... like going to a lawyer and he can't give me a suggestion or even tell me do i have a case with out doing his research... But now you saying that hardware won't work... actually you not clearly stating anything, it's ambiguous... And most of it my fault for the simple fact I shouldn't have told yall 12, since it seem hard to phantom any suggestion toward that so here something you probably have seen:

running up to 6 virtual machine receiving, recording, and streaming out to a simple website to be viewed by others, and a simple web service you can setup with any type of software program(I fear to say which I might use cause that might make things complicated), with just a simple chat for each stream or should i say webpage that host the stream for those who watching can talk to one another... And that is it.

So with that simple ideal of running 6 virtual machine doing the same thing. I came across a system that is a HP Z620 Workstation, 2x Intel Xeon E5-2670 2.6GHz Eight Core CPU's, 96GB memory, 256GB SSD, 1TB Hard Drive, NVIDIA Quadro 600, Windows 7 Professional Installed. Would that suffice to running the 6 virtual machine... yes or no please for a simple understanding answer.

If it is a yes, than how much bandwidth you think I would need... without the tech detail stuff... here some tech detail for just brain food, they say streaming on certain streaming service for both live feeds and movies and tv shows range from 3.6mbps to as high as 6 Mbit/s... Also video quality and other variables effects the stream too, we not going to have a high video quality stream, it going to be okay quality. So with that how much you think I would need?

If you can answer these two question no need to read farther or you would probably get more confuse if at this point you can give me a simple yes or no on the first question of the system spec and a "Could probable work for you" on the second question. If not keep reading.

If anything PLEASE answer the first question about the system specs I provided since you are saying something different now than you did when I persent it to you.

If the bandwidth, and operations still have you.. IDK.. hesitating... forget about the web services, the streaming, and other stuff. If it more plausible let just say the 6 virtual machine will be... playing Netflix... at the same time.

 

[lv2lrn4lf]

Now you are asking very different questions. The CPU requirements are going to depend on the encoder software you are using. In addition the cpu load depends a lot on the content since something that has a lot of change take more effort to compress than a static screen image.

The network side is more straight forward. Almost all the encoding software you set the bit rate you want and the encoding software will attempt to compress the data down to that limit. So your network usage is pretty easy if you can select all the bit rates you want to use.

Be aware the bit rate directly affects your cpu usage and has a major effect on the maximum quality you can send.

What I don't understand is why you are trying to jump into some large project rather than learn how things work with 1 stream and then increase and see what you need to change.

OMG DUDE YOU ARE RIGHT!!! AND YOUR NOT A MOD! Please answer this question for me my first non-mob individual who reply to me:

running up to 6 virtual machine receiving, recording, and streaming out to a simple website to be viewed by others, and a simple web service you can setup with any type of software program(I fear to say which I might use cause that might make things complicated), with just a simple chat for each stream or should i say webpage that host the stream for those who watching can talk to one another... And that is it.

So with that simple ideal of running 6 virtual machine doing the same thing. I came across a system that is a HP Z620 Workstation, 2x Intel Xeon E5-2670 2.6GHz Eight Core CPU's, 96GB memory, 256GB SSD, 1TB Hard Drive, NVIDIA Quadro 600, Windows 7 Professional Installed. Would that suffice to running the 6 virtual machine... yes or no please for a simple understanding answer. Oh and one of the mods on here say I can download and use window 10 for free(I want to use window virtual machine set up features to run as my 6 virtual machine)... do you know anything about that?

If it is a yes, than how much bandwidth you think I would need... without the tech detail stuff... here some tech detail for just brain food, they say streaming on certain streaming service for both live feeds and movies and tv shows range from 3.6mbps to as high as 6 Mbit/s... Also video quality and other variables effects the stream too, we not going to have a high video quality stream, it going to be okay quality. So with that how much you think I would need?

 

[13thmonkey]

No one knows the encoding you are using on these streams, that will both dictate the processer load (difficult to estimate) and the bandwidth (easy once you know the encoding details, but you don't need us to multiply something by 12)

 

[lv2lrn4lf]

No one knows the encoding you are using on these streams, that will both dictate the processer load (difficult to estimate) and the bandwidth (easy once you know the encoding details, but you don't need us to multiply something by 12)

Oh so freaking true!!!! You are right i'll just multiple all spec by 12(change to 6 now cause 12 seem to freak people out) so 6. With that said:

running up to 6 virtual machine receiving, recording, and streaming out to a simple website to be viewed by others, and a simple web service you can setup with any type of software program(I fear to say which I might use cause that might make things complicated), with just a simple chat for each stream or should i say webpage that host the stream for those who watching can talk to one another... And that is it.

So with that simple ideal of running 6 virtual machine doing the same thing. I came across a system that is a HP Z620 Workstation, 2x Intel Xeon E5-2670 2.6GHz Eight Core CPU's, 96GB memory, 256GB SSD, 1TB Hard Drive, NVIDIA Quadro 600, Windows 7 Professional Installed. Would that suffice to running the 6 virtual machine... yes or no please for a simple understanding answer. Oh and one of the mods on here say I can download and use window 10 for free(I want to use window virtual machine set up features to run as my 6 virtual machine)... do you know anything about that?

Oh and one of the mods on here say I can download and use window 10 for free(I want to use window virtual machine set up features to run as my 6 virtual machine)... do you know anything about that?

I'm asking on this hardware I'm looking at. Cause I'm just going to have to contact a isp or my internet provide to see what high upload speed I can get for how much.

And I found this:

Windows 10 Pro Free Download 32 Bit 64 Bit ISO - WebForPC

Windows 10 Pro Free Download 32 Bit 64 Bit ISO. Download windows 10 pro's core ISO bootable image DVD for 32 bit and 64 bit just in single click. Windows

webforpc.com

 

[13thmonkey]

I'm answering the question about the bandwidth, if you have a 2000Kbps stream, and you want to run 12 of them then you need 12x2000 = 24,000kbps or 24Mbps, plus some overhead maybe 20% call it 30Mbps.

BUT I have no idea what you are streaming at? Is it 2000? that might be a bit poor, it is 8000, you can do the maths, but even at 2000 a 8Mbps is not good enough, not by a long long way.

The server is probably ok, we can't say more than that, we don't know how efficient or inefficient your code is? Perhaps where you get the streams from have already encoded it, perhaps you have really noisy images, all will impact the processor loads in ways that we cannot estimate. Ram is easier to estimate.

What we can say is that from the servers you suggested, and setting the ram where-ever we said to set it, that was the machine that is most likely to be able to do what you want, that's it, that's all we can say, not because we are hedging but because we can't possibly know.

If you ran a test and told us that one stream locked to one core of a certain processor took 50% of that core, we could have a good guess as to how much that would mean in terms of the cores of the processors you are proposing, and we'd have a good guess at the overhead from a VM.

What you are asking right now is 'how big a cage do I need to trap an animal' and you won't tell us what the animal is, or how big it is. Is it dog sized, or elephant sized, we have no idea as YOU have not told us.

 

[lv2lrn4lf]

I'm answering the question about the bandwidth, if you have a 2000Kbps stream, and you want to run 12 of them then you need 12x2000 = 24,000kbps or 24Mbps, plus some overhead maybe 20% call it 30Mbps.

BUT I have no idea what you are streaming at? Is it 2000? that might be a bit poor, it is 8000, you can do the maths, but even at 2000 a 8Mbps is not good enough, not by a long long way.

The server is probably ok, we can't say more than that, we don't know how efficient or inefficient your code is? Perhaps where you get the streams from have already encoded it, perhaps you have really noisy images, all will impact the processor loads in ways that we cannot estimate. Ram is easier to estimate.

What we can say is that from the servers you suggested, and setting the ram where-ever we said to set it, that was the machine that is most likely to be able to do what you want, that's it, that's all we can say, not because we are hedging but because we can't possibly know.

If you ran a test and told us that one stream locked to one core of a certain processor took 50% of that core, we could have a good guess as to how much that would mean in terms of the cores of the processors you are proposing, and we'd have a good guess at the overhead from a VM.

What you are asking right now is 'how big a cage do I need to trap an animal' and you won't tell us what the animal is, or how big it is. Is it dog sized, or elephant sized, we have no idea as YOU have not told us.

LOL but i told you everything I felt was important... But you are right... So since you said the machine I list out with the specs that is a HP Z620 Workstation, 2x Intel Xeon E5-2670 2.6GHz Eight Core CPU's, 96GB memory, 256GB SSD, 1TB Hard Drive, NVIDIA Quadro 600, Windows 7 Professional Installed.(and someone also said a mod that I can download window 10 pro for free and just have to worry about marks it doesn't bother me that it comes with windows 8 pro to much). So I'll just wait to get this system to run a test case and than get back to this forum for help.

 

[USAFRet]

Bandwidth:

To simulate multiple incoming video streams, here is 4 movies, each in an individual VLC instance, reading off my NAS box across the gigabit LAN.

The bandwidth coming in:

Averaging ~50Mbps, spiking to ~100Mbps.

To stream these 4 videos OUT, at this same quality, to 4 simultaneous users, would require the same in upload service from your ISP.

Now...this has nothing to do with your encoding requirements and the required bandwidth, so YMMV.

 

[13thmonkey]

those are uncompressed however, at probably 25+Mbps each, these are probably more akin to a twitch stream each if compressed.

 

[USAFRet]

those are uncompressed however, at probably 25+Mbps each, these are probably more akin to a twitch stream each if compressed.

Right.
Which is why I keep harping on the need for him to test, with his environment and compression.
But whatever, an 8Mbps upload pipe is not going to serve a dozen or more external users, with any sort of watchable video quality.

 

[13thmonkey]

Right.
Which is why I keep harping on the need for him to test, with his environment and compression.
But whatever, an 8Mbps upload pipe is not going to serve a dozen or more external users, with any sort of watchable video quality.

Thank god for that, I thought I was barking up the wrong tree for a while.

 

[COLGeek]

And I found this:

Windows 10 Pro Free Download 32 Bit 64 Bit ISO - WebForPC

Windows 10 Pro Free Download 32 Bit 64 Bit ISO. Download windows 10 pro's core ISO bootable image DVD for 32 bit and 64 bit just in single click. Windows

webforpc.com

DO NOT get (download) Win 10 from any other source other than MS. Get it for free (and free of malware) from here:

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10

To do otherwise is both unnecessary and unwise.

 

[USAFRet]

And I found this:

Windows 10 Pro Free Download 32 Bit 64 Bit ISO - WebForPC

Windows 10 Pro Free Download 32 Bit 64 Bit ISO. Download windows 10 pro's core ISO bootable image DVD for 32 bit and 64 bit just in single click. Windows

webforpc.com

Nope. Not even a little bit.

Get it from there, and my participation with your enterprise is done.

 

[popatim]

Are you trans-coding these incoming streams or just forwarding them as-is?

 

[lv2lrn4lf]

oh my god dude wtf with all the mods!!! I'm putting back up my blue sign and don't none of yo say anything about it.... anyway um... for like 115 i can get a 1000dprs download and 800mpbs upload with tv included or i found a online service that i can use and just pay like 16-19 a month to stream out to multiple clients. @COLGeek thanks for the link man. I appreciative it... actually I appreciative all who reply honestly.... I came back cause i have more questions... going to make another post wish there was away to make private post that why i mostly post and ask questions on the same post. like i have a couple of questions that i will put in one post... So see you mods there... since only freakin mods the only people to responded... i mean you people do know your like the police of forums right? nerve racking when the police always coming up to you don't you think??? Freakin police mods... okay i'm just being stupid... look forward from hearing from you guys later in the other post.

@popatim I don't know if you don't mind listing them or just copy and past from some website to give me something to read or i can look that stuff up myself.

 

[lv2lrn4lf]

And I found this:

Windows 10 Pro Free Download 32 Bit 64 Bit ISO - WebForPC

Windows 10 Pro Free Download 32 Bit 64 Bit ISO. Download windows 10 pro's core ISO bootable image DVD for 32 bit and 64 bit just in single click. Windows

webforpc.com

DO NOT get (download) Win 10 from any other source other than MS. Get it for free (and free of malware) from here:

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10

To do otherwise is both unnecessary and unwise.

Hey i went to that link... could you give a text tutorial of how to download it free from this site you link to.

 

[COLGeek]

Go to the MS link and just click on the second + (plus) sign. All the text tutorial you'll ever need will present itself.

 

[digitalgriffin]

So I'm looking to provide a streaming services where I stream multiple live feeds out. My questions is how much bandwidth would I need for this?


I use a website to test my bandwidth: Ping ms 5 Download Mbps 46.88 Upload Mbps 5.59. A site say the average is 18gbps.

I came across two different set up plans from at&t and want to ask my eggheads which one is good for my use case and is the plan i have right now good enough to not bother. i could be stream from 3-6 live feed daily and at the most 6-8 and at the peek 12 video live feed are leaving out. A lot of people say 12 live feed is crazy so if you would give me three answers please. One aim at 3-6 daily, another aim at 6-8 and another aim at 8-12.

check out thse two internet plans:

consumer plans:
https://www.att.com/internet/?source=ECs5000000000000L

business plans:
https://www.attsavings.com/business/internet

seem like the none businesses one is a good deal. Which one you think is better, or is my internet good enough. And why does business plan look crappy?

They screw business because they can. But generally speaking you get better support and a fixed IP address. The consumer class that stuff cost extra.