Bent Pin on CPU Zif Scket - Need Your Opinion

[Xeal]

Hi guys,

Bought Asus P5B-E Plus board, built new PC - no POST.
Sent the board back to the supplyer, they discovered a damaged pin on the CPU Zif socket.

Here's the picture, look at the top row of pins.

In their opinion this was "caused by incorrect installation of the CPU".

Can anyone tell me how can one lift one pin up and over when CPU can only be sitted in one orientation and its pressed down?
Although I've been building PCs since '96, MCSE certified engineer, but I will accept a reasonable explanation if it is my fault.

Your honest opinion will be greatly appreciated.

 

[slim142]

I feel you that why Im gonna try to help you

1) did you install a 775 cpu before this happened?

Did you have to put force on the cpu when you were installing it?

Didnt you notice this before installing the cpu?

The most common reason I think how this might had happened is that you didnt make sure the cpu was well placed and forced it into the socket and the pin didnt resisted and broke. I dont think there is any other explanation.

If the store doesnt want to refund your money, I dont think the company of the board would do so either because they have the reason. You should have checked how the motherboard arrived to see if this was a manufacturers fault.
I would say, sell it on eBay, there might be somebody (as always) who might give you something. You will have to get another board.

Again try to sell that on eBay and if you cant, Just throw it away, I dont think you can fix that. And better luck next time.

 

[Bache]

Hi guys,

Bought Asus P5B-E Plus board, built new PC - no POST.
Sent the board back to the supplyer, they discovered a damaged pin on the CPU Zif socket.

Here's the picture, look at the top row of pins.

In their opinion this was "caused by incorrect installation of the CPU".

Can anyone tell me how can one lift one pin up and over when CPU can only be sitted in one orientation and its pressed down?
Although I've been building PCs since '96, MCSE certified engineer, but I will accept a reasonable explanation if it is my fault.

Your honest opinion will be greatly appreciated.

I can't see how installation of CPU could do this damage - only one pin.

With many thousands of MB's/sockets built, there must be the odd faulty one that slips through.

Millions of pins made, some must have faults and break.

This is when the question must be asked - should we demand to inspect the socket in the store before purchase/leaving?

Once you leave the store, they will most of the time say that you caused the damage. (that is correct sometimes).

Even if they fix the MB, do you realy want that MB back when you have paid all that money.

And even then, the socket could be visually OK, but when CPU is fitted and if a pin/s have a weak spot, they could break when CPU applies tension.

Having previously bought new/faulty MB's (other fault), I emailed Intel recently and asked them if they had a program that could be installed in windows that checks all pins/contacts for OK continuity as depending of the pin/s specific operation/duty, the PC could still operate with a faulty pin contact but not to 100%.

They said that there was no program to do this.

It's surprising that Intel could spend millions to design the LGA775 socket and CPU's, but not spend a dime to design a simple program that could be even run from the BIOS or floppy, etc, to help pc builders.

 

[slim142]

I agree, is very strange that only 1 pin is broke. Still, as you said, they will always blame the user and in this cases, there is nothing left to do but to buy a new mobo.

 

[Bache]

I agree, is very strange that only 1 pin is broke. Still, as you said, they will always blame the user and in this cases, there is nothing left to do but to buy a new mobo.

This is where I like the previous socket design - Intel 478 and AM2.

There is less chance for pin damage to occur.

With the LGA design the pins are vulnerable - in the open, and they are required to flex where'as the previous design the contacts are covered and they "compress/clamp".

I guess all we can do is to be extra carefull when purchasing MB's to inspect socket, and when installing the CPU.

Maybe they could design the a socket/cpu setup to be like a card design that slips in a socket.

 

[Xeal]

did you install a 775 cpu before this happened?

I did not know there was anything wrong with the board.

Did you have to put force on the cpu when you were installing it?

No, the CPU has matching cut-outs and can be installed in only one orientation.

Didnt you notice this before installing the cpu?

I did not really inspect the socket with a magnifying glass, so the answer is "no". However your question made me wonder why Asus just places a fidly cap on top of the socket cover that can fly, and no protection on the socket itself.

The fact that only one pin is bent and it's pushed upwards and over the retaining partition makes me think it was not my fault. I though initially that it was cought on CPU contact when I was removing the chip from the socket, but then CPU suface is flat!

Thanks again, guys.

 

[Vokofpolisiekar]

Also note, that most of the times they (company selling you something) will try and tell you it's your fault. Sometimes, it might just help to state the facts and see if they go back on their initial claim.

With a pin bending upwards, it just seems too weird. Like you said, the CPU area is flat and there's no way in hell that a user can get the pin to move upwards during install or removal (although it does happen - but that's extreme). Sideways maybe, down yes and borken possible - NOT up - that requires grip.

 

[Xeal]

Thanks for your reassurace, Vokofpolisiekar.

Without trying to bother you to death, but just in case you want to keep an eye on the progress of this affair, here's a mail I sent to the supplier today.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear XXX,

I feel that your explanation of the reason for the motherboard to be damaged by “incorrect installation of the CPU” is totally unacceptable.

1. CPU can only be fitted into the Zif socket in one orientation due to the notches on the socket and cut-outs on the edges of the CPU chip – they have to be aligned in order to place the CPU inside the socket.

2. The pin is bent upwards and over its retaining partition, whereas CPU is pressed downwards by the load plate. In order to make that pin bend one should be using watchmaker’s tools and a magnifying glass; neither of these is in my possession.

3. There’s only one pin bent. Forcing CPU would distort more than one pin.

4. If one did try to force a CPU using incorrect orientation, this would also leave marks on the Zif socket surrounding walls, and scratch the notches on the socket, not just one pin.

5. I am not new to computer hardware. I’ve been building PCs since 1996; I am Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer and work in IT professionally, so the idea of somebody “new to the game” is out of the question.

6. Although the socket was protected by the cup seated on the load plate when I took the delivery, the motherboard box was not sealed in any fashion. So, anyone could have damaged the pin before it arrived.

7. You state in your letter that if goods are found faulty the supplier should be notified within “Reasonable time (usually a fairly short period)”.

- The motherboard arrived on 3 Jan 2007
- I started building a new PC with this board on 7 Jan 2007-01-14
- I called you on 9 Jan 2007 and you issued RMA
Surely, 6 days is a fairly short period

8. Can you reproduce this fault by forcing the CPU into the socket?

In order to conclude this matter I request full refund, including my postage costs.

Yours faithfully,

PS
I hope that the faulty PSU supplied by yourselves did not cause damage to the CPU chip.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, PSU ThermalTake TR2 500W, was faulty and they will be issuing a refund.

 

[Vokofpolisiekar]

Keep us up to date.

Some fiendly pointers:

When you send such a mail, never use words like demand. You are at the mercy of whomever reads your mail, and that ranges from open minded right down to plain stupid. So, a friendly, to the point and fact based mail will most times go farther than a demand based mail. Your mail should get some response though. The second time, you can let loose :lol:

Never take ownership of an unsealed parcel - even if it's sealed, check the complete product from finger prints on the board to mechanical defects on points that are easy to spot. It's tedious, but it will save you in the case where you are wronged but fall prey to some loop hole.

 

[Xeal]

You are so write, thanks again for your advice!

I will let you know how it all ends.

Really frustrated, the machine was for my work, alas I have to byte a bullet and wait.

 

[slim142]

We all hope you can get your money refunded

Something like that never happened to me but I know how you feel specially when we talk about pc parts cuz we know they cost a lot and is not just a simple toy.

 

[Bache]

Keep us up to date.

Some fiendly pointers:

When you send such a mail, never use words like demand. You are at the mercy of whomever reads your mail, and that ranges from open minded right down to plain stupid. So, a friendly, to the point and fact based mail will most times go farther than a demand based mail. Your mail should get some response though. The second time, you can let loose :lol:

Never take ownership of an unsealed parcel - even if it's sealed, check the complete product from finger prints on the board to mechanical defects on points that are easy to spot. It's tedious, but it will save you in the case where you are wronged but fall prey to some loop hole.

The above point "in bold" is very true, but MB packaging I have seen and purchased recently, have not been sealed.

A few years ago it was common for packaging to be sealed.

Retailers that I have purchased from have lied to me when I have asked - "this package seems to have been opened". "No they say"

They will treat you with the upmost courtesy to make a sale, but when you return a product, they don't want to know and virtually tell you to get lost and they don't seem to care about return business/sales, strange :roll:

What I do now is if I have any doubt about a component, I say see ya and go to another store.

 

[Xeal]

Here's the suplier's reply to my mail. This time no hiding of their name.

From: Ric Leach [ric@microdirect.co.uk]
Sent: 15 January 2007 13:27
To: Alex B Clarke
Subject: RE: RMA040632 - Asus 5PB-E Plus Skt 775 Intel P965[Scanned]

Dear Customer,

The goods were rejected on the bases of the bent pin, regardless how this was done the fact still remains it is rejected both from us and the manufacture.

As for the plastic guard, this is only fitted after the manufactures quality control signs the board fit for sale.

Regards,

Customer Service

Seems like our Ric, "the d**k", says, "who ever bent the pin

regardless how this was done

it's for you to pay for it, dear customer".
Do these people only use their head to ware a hat?

 

[aequalsb]

On one occasion, when i was taking that stupid flimsy protective cap, the corner of it somehow managed to get in the square and yank a pin. Actually it's happened 2 times but only once did i hit the pin. Stupid things...

Dru

 

[Flying-Q]

You're in the UK.

MicroDirect are in the UK.

Supply of Goods and Services Act
Sale of Goods Act

Both of these have amendments regarding internet trading.

Go and see Citizens Advice Bureau to find out about statutory customer rights, or see a solicitor - you may be able to get them in the Small Claims Court.

I had to throw the book at MicroDirect about 3 years ago but I only succeeded with the assistance of some legal advice.

They were intransigent to the point of rudeness and accused me of lying.

Good Luck.

Q

 

[Bache]

Here's the suplier's reply to my mail. This time no hiding of their name.
From: Ric Leach [ric@microdirect.co.uk]
Sent: 15 January 2007 13:27
To: Alex B Clarke
Subject: RE: RMA040632 - Asus 5PB-E Plus Skt 775 Intel P965[Scanned]

Dear Customer,

The goods were rejected on the bases of the bent pin, regardless how this was done the fact still remains it is rejected both from us and the manufacture.

As for the plastic guard, this is only fitted after the manufactures quality control signs the board fit for sale.

Regards,

Customer Service

Seems like our Ric, "the d**k", says, "who ever bent the pin

regardless how this was done

it's for you to pay for it, dear customer".
Do these people only use their head to ware a hat?
That response is typical of most retailers.

Since they have made you/us angry, this is what I suggest you do - reply email that you will not do anymore business with them. You will tell all your friends, etc about the lousy after sales service and that you have posted microdirect uk response to your problem to TOMSHARDWARE FORUMS (world wide net) where hundreds, maybe thousands of PC builders/component buyers, will view thier response and will in most cases avoid purchasing from them.

I mean you will loose small time compared to them - you = mainboard replacement - them = thousands of dollars in lost business.

The internet is a great place :lol:

 

[Vokofpolisiekar]

Even though being nasty is the best way to go at this stage, I'd recommend being the better gentlemen and just be tactile:

Reply stating your disgust and the level of inculance showed at you - they might reject the pin being bent, but on what ground? Can they prove that a ZERO INSERTION FORCE socket pin, can be bent upwards when the only "pressure" is letting the CPU settle in the socket, and removing it requires ZERO force? No, they can't. RIC most likely is first level support, which means he don't know nothing - try and phone and get some senior level person - he understands customer value more than the low level workers.

Then, write a nice mail to PCFormat and all well known publications, stating your experience and then CC dear old RIC aswell. Be nice and courtious in the mail though - PCF will swamp such an e-mail. Only send this mail if further attempts don't yield any help.

Chances are this is a lost battle for you, so the only thing left to do is damage their image a bit. I for one won't buy from them IF I ever end up in the UK - but that's a long shot!

 

[Xeal]

First off, massive thanks to all of you, for your interest, support and advice :!:

This morning, don't laugh, at 3am, I mailed Asus at Asus Technical Services, see what will happen.

I agree with Vokofpolisiekar, if this matter became known to a senior, customer-focused employee of Micro Direct, I'd get a different response. I shall try calling them tomorrow.

However, the comments made by Flying-Q make me think that the outfit is run by a buch of "quick-buck cow boys". One guy at work even suggeted that they new the board was faulty before sending it.

What I think is that when a mail order goods are delivered, we should not let the delivery guy go until we open the box and check the state of the contents.

Thanks again for your interest in this matter.

 

[BUFF]

What I think is that when a mail order goods are delivered, we should not let the delivery guy go until we open the box and check the state of the contents.

I always sign for something with "not checked" beside my signature.

 

[Xeal]

Thanks for the tip, Buff.

 

[Xeal]

In case you are still interested, sent this mail to Asus today
-----------------------------------------------
Please help, the supplier refuses to deal with a faulty board.

Zif soket has 1 pin bent upwards, please see photo
http://www.xeallaex.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/images/MD_Photo.pdf

The supplier found the fault when I returned the board.
They then sent the board back to me with this letter
http://www.xeallaex.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/images/MD_Letter.pdf

I replied trying to explain that it's impossible to bend 1 pin apwards by inserting a CPU.
They replied saying "regardless how this was done the fact still remains it is rejected both from us and the manufacture." Here's this correspondence
http://www.xeallaex.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/images/MD_Rejection.pdf

Can you do anything about it?
-----------------------------------------------
Let's see what happens.

 

[sruane]

It is unlikely that this was caused by installation, more likely by handling. If someone dragged some object across the socket this sort of damage might happen.

EDIT: Unless, of course, that object happened to be the corner of the CPU package. Then I guess it cold be installation.

 

[Xeal]

... and here's what Asus says

Dear sir/madam,

Thank you for contacting ASUS Customer Service.
My name is Penny. It's my pleasure to help you with your problem.

For the warranty policy of Socket775 motherboards, if the pin is bent, or there is any damagement on the CPU socket, the motherboard will lose the warranty. If you would like to pay for repairing, I can contact our interrelated department in UK to help you. Sorry for any inconvenience.

If you have any problem, please refer FAQ(Frequently Asked Questions) or contact us again. We will try our best to help you.
http://support.asus.com/faq/faq.aspx?SLanguage=en-us

Sincerely,

Penny
ASUS Customer Service Center(China)

Looks like I will be buying a magnifying glass and trying to fix it myself.

 

[sruane]

... and here's what Asus says
Dear sir/madam,

Thank you for contacting ASUS Customer Service.
My name is Penny. It's my pleasure to help you with your problem.

For the warranty policy of Socket775 motherboards, if the pin is bent, or there is any damagement on the CPU socket, the motherboard will lose the warranty. If you would like to pay for repairing, I can contact our interrelated department in UK to help you. Sorry for any inconvenience.

If you have any problem, please refer FAQ(Frequently Asked Questions) or contact us again. We will try our best to help you.
http://support.asus.com/faq/faq.aspx?SLanguage=en-us

Sincerely,

Penny
ASUS Customer Service Center(China)

Looks like I will be buying a magnifying glass and trying to fix it myself.

I've done this myself. I haven't had to bend a pin quite that far, but I've done it. A sturdy pair of tweezers helps.

 

[losmeme]

This entire thread is the reason that I have stayed away from socket 775 from the very beginning.

The socket was changed to save on manufacturing costs. Apparently it is harder to achieve consistent soldering to the motherboard of the old type female sockets. Any motherboard that requires a special tool to seat the CPU into it's socket is a motherboard I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole.

I'm sorry you are having problems, but this is the sad state of computer hardware these days.

Intel goes on the cheap, and the customer gets screwed. Boy, these manufacturers and distributers are getting rather desperate to make their monthly numbers!

Anybody want to discuss the BTX form factor??