best mini-pc with graphics capabilities for Illustrator? NUC?

[mhalpert]

So I need to set-up a whole new system and am looking for small and powerful. After reading Best mini-Pcs 2015, it looks like the Intel Core i7-powered NUC5i7RYH, 256GB SATA M.2 SSD (or PCIe x4 SSD), with 8GB of RAM might be a good fit.

BUT. I am not a computer expert and have to rely on local advice. Here's what I've been told: "Intel HD is usually on chip and can't be upgraded in NUC's. While the newest generation of 6100 is a lot better than previous generations it is still nothing compared to a decent dedicated GPU card. The NUC will run Illustrator, but the question is, how well? And if you ever need to upgrade you will have to replace the computer".

Is this good advice, or uninformed chatter? I'd like to determine if it's foolish to use the NUC as the basis of my workstation. Here's what I keep open and running on my desktop, at the same time:

- many browser instances
- Word
- Adobe illustrator
- Evernote

Can anyone out there help me set up a system in a small package that will handle all this? Or should I just give-up the idea and look for another small form but not mini?

 

[ZENprime]

That advice is great , tells you everything ...

Now for the NUC5i7RYH , it has a broadwell CPU which means it has Iris pro graphics , these are top of the line internal graphics they are way better than non Iris graphics , still you are at GTX 740 levels if you compare it to dedicated GPUs

So it will run all your programs well , however I am not so sure about large and extreme large projects as these put heavy load into the whole computer ...

If money is not a problem you can get the GB-BXi7G3-760 ($800) which has a dedicated GTX 760 full power that is the strongest NUC ever and will run anything you throw at it

Notes on NUC : they come with no HDD so you will have to buy a 2.5" HDD or SSD and L-memory (laptop ram) , They have a weak wifi , and can get loud .

 

[mhalpert]

That advice is great , tells you everything ...

Now for the NUC5i7RYH , it has a broadwell CPU which means it has Iris pro graphics , these are top of the line internal graphics they are way better than non Iris graphics , still you are at GTX 740 levels if you compare it to dedicated GPUs

So it will run all your programs well , however I am not so sure about large and extreme large projects as these put heavy load into the whole computer ...

If money is not a problem you can get the GB-BXi7G3-760 ($800) which has a dedicated GTX 760 full power that is the strongest NUC ever and will run anything you throw at it

Notes on NUC : they come with no HDD so you will have to buy a 2.5" HDD or SSD and L-memory (laptop ram) , They have a weak wifi , and can get loud .

 

[mhalpert]

Thanks Zen! I'm going to look into your suggestion and also read-up on video cards. Seriously, I have very moderate computer knowledge (I don't even know the difference b/w an SSD and an HD/HHD yet...or whether it should matter to me!), and am just trying to determine whether it makes sense to go for a mini (though in the case of NUC I would be concerned with warranty issues...), or see if it's smarter to do a custom build with a small-form at Puget for instance, in order to get warranty and support...

Any advice in that direction? Thanks again!

 

[ZENprime]

When it comes to PC if you want good hardware in small size you pay more than the normal size price
case sizes from big to small
ATX--->mATX--->mini-iTX
Do you want it to be portable so you can take it with you any place ?
Then you must go for NUC as these are designed for that use
These are the smallest PC ever , however alot of features is cut from the NUC (not something you would use in your usage)
Do you want a small size PC that will not eat up space in the room with good features and options ?
You need to go for mini-itx size , these are the smallest full features PCs , they are priced alot better than the NUC however you are limited to certain models in a hardware line
For example in a graphics card series there are 5 models , you will only find 1 with ITX size
Generally PC are going to ITX size as technology advances towards small size

PC components is :
CPU : this is the central processor of your computer and it handles all data you do , better processor means less time in rendering and generally in any thing you do , only 2 companies make PC cpu : amd and intel , currently amd does not offer much in ITX size so you have to go with intel .
GPU : this is the graphics processor it process any 3d data you may draw or render like for example when you play a 3d game
generally it gives you better screen quality , ability to design large 3d projects and normal drawing too , gives you smooth game play too
There are integrated graphics and dedicated graphics , integrated has advanced too much in past years , it now can give you good screen quality and rendering however it still can not touch medium or even low cards ... Intel makes integrated graphics / AMD makes both integrated and dedicated graphics / NVIDIA makes dedicated graphics

Memory : called RAM you need it to store your programs live sessions data , when you open a program it loads the needed data in RAM and when you close it the data gets removed from the RAM

Storage : this is the HDD/SSD you need it to store your data permanently or delete it whenever you want ; HDD are in large storage size and comes cheap they have really long lifetime so you can store a lot of data in it / SSD are in small storage size and comes pretty expensive , they are advanced technology they are extremely fast where you need like 5 seconds to go into working desktop from pressing power button ; however they have short lifetime and they have a lot of errors . honestly it is not worth it for it's price
maybe in the future it will become better in sizes and less erros

Motherboard : This is where you plug in all your components , there are many many models , it provides the socket for the CPU , PCI-E slot for graphics card , SATA ports for storage , RAM slots for ram , internet+audio on-board + maybe WIFI/bluetooth in some models

PSU : This is the power generator for your PC comes in watt models like 500 watt PSU or 600 watt PSU
XFX / SEASONIC makes the best PSUs , do not cheap on it as the cheap models can explode or make fire / kill your PC / could kill you too


I made you a price list of a mini-itx build which the case has size of 261(W) x 394(H) x 426(D)mm :
Fully working so you do not need to buy anything for it .

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4460 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor ($176.95 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z97N-WIFI Mini ITX LGA1150 Motherboard ($104.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LP 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($89.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($71.89 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: Sapphire Radeon R9 380 2GB ITX Compact Video Card ($211.97 @ Newegg)
Case: Zalman M1 Mini ITX Tower Case ($109.98 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: SeaSonic 620W 80+ Bronze Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($78.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Total: $844.76
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-08-12 15:53 EDT-0400

 

[mhalpert]

When it comes to PC if you want good hardware in small size you pay more than the normal size price
case sizes from big to small
ATX--->mATX--->mini-iTX
Do you want it to be portable so you can take it with you any place ?
Then you must go for NUC as these are designed for that use
These are the smallest PC ever , however alot of features is cut from the NUC (not something you would use in your usage)
Do you want a small size PC that will not eat up space in the room with good features and options ?
You need to go for mini-itx size , these are the smallest full features PCs , they are priced alot better than the NUC however you are limited to certain models in a hardware line
For example in a graphics card series there are 5 models , you will only find 1 with ITX size
Generally PC are going to ITX size as technology advances towards small size

PC components is :
CPU : this is the central processor of your computer and it handles all data you do , better processor means less time in rendering and generally in any thing you do , only 2 companies make PC cpu : amd and intel , currently amd does not offer much in ITX size so you have to go with intel .
GPU : this is the graphics processor it process any 3d data you may draw or render like for example when you play a 3d game
generally it gives you better screen quality , ability to design large 3d projects and normal drawing too , gives you smooth game play too
There are integrated graphics and dedicated graphics , integrated has advanced too much in past years , it now can give you good screen quality and rendering however it still can not touch medium or even low cards ... Intel makes integrated graphics / AMD makes both integrated and dedicated graphics / NVIDIA makes dedicated graphics

Memory : called RAM you need it to store your programs live sessions data , when you open a program it loads the needed data in RAM and when you close it the data gets removed from the RAM

Storage : this is the HDD/SSD you need it to store your data permanently or delete it whenever you want ; HDD are in large storage size and comes cheap they have really long lifetime so you can store a lot of data in it / SSD are in small storage size and comes pretty expensive , they are advanced technology they are extremely fast where you need like 5 seconds to go into working desktop from pressing power button ; however they have short lifetime and they have a lot of errors . honestly it is not worth it for it's price
maybe in the future it will become better in sizes and less erros

Motherboard : This is where you plug in all your components , there are many many models , it provides the socket for the CPU , PCI-E slot for graphics card , SATA ports for storage , RAM slots for ram , internet+audio on-board + maybe WIFI/bluetooth in some models

PSU : This is the power generator for your PC comes in watt models like 500 watt PSU or 600 watt PSU
XFX / SEASONIC makes the best PSUs , do not cheap on it as the cheap models can explode or make fire / kill your PC / could kill you too


I made you a price list of a mini-itx build which the case has size of 261(W) x 394(H) x 426(D)mm :
Fully working so you do not need to buy anything for it .

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4460 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor ($176.95 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z97N-WIFI Mini ITX LGA1150 Motherboard ($104.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LP 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($89.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($71.89 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: Sapphire Radeon R9 380 2GB ITX Compact Video Card ($211.97 @ Newegg)
Case: Zalman M1 Mini ITX Tower Case ($109.98 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: SeaSonic 620W 80+ Bronze Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($78.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Total: $844.76
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-08-12 15:53 EDT-0400

 

[mhalpert]

Oh my! Thanks for all the information. That's a really big help! Yes, I was looking at the smallest size first, for space saving, and then determining whether it could run the programs I usually use. Thus the NUC. Or anything comparable size-wise that can manage the applications I typically leave open: illustrator, evernote, word, lots of browsers, also a security camera system.

I am not a power user or a gamer. I use illustrator mostly for document design, and am interested in text-based motion graphics. Small things. Not huge movies or video editing.

As I now understand it, the size of the graphics card will determine the size of the case. If the work I do requires a dedicated card, then the very smallest "box" I can get is a mini-ITX (which still seems huge to me). If I am not really doing such major stuff, then an integrated card, especially the Iris 6100, might work just fine. is this correct?

How do I make that determination?

 

[jaguarskx]

Personally, I have been considering buying a NUC using a Skylake generation CPU sometime next year. Anywaste...

The Gigabyte GB-BXi7G3-760 is a pretty powerful NUC, but you should watch the following review of the that NUC, with a Core i5-4200H which has a 47w TDP; the same as a quad core i7 CPU. It is a bit loud and it experiences thermal throttling when playing games, but I assume Illustrator should be fine since it should be less demanding compared to games.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGI8iYjk0rc

 

[ZENprime]

Oh my! Thanks for all the information. That's a really big help! Yes, I was looking at the smallest size first, for space saving, and then determining whether it could run the programs I usually use. Thus the NUC. Or anything comparable size-wise that can manage the applications I typically leave open: illustrator, evernote, word, lots of browsers, also a security camera system.

I am not a power user or a gamer. I use illustrator mostly for document design, and am interested in text-based motion graphics. Small things. Not huge movies or video editing.

As I now understand it, the size of the graphics card will determine the size of the case. If the work I do requires a dedicated card, then the very smallest "box" I can get is a mini-ITX (which still seems huge to me). If I am not really doing such major stuff, then an integrated card, especially the Iris 6100, might work just fine. is this correct?

How do I make that determination?

If you are not doing anything big (drawing a 3d building for example) then integrated will be enough
Your usage is pretty basic , 2D line drawing (document design) + you need alot of programs open at once
So you need integrated graphics for the 2D + you need lots of RAM to store the open sessions of your programs
I suggest BRIX pro It has an amazing processor + top of the line integrated graphics which has its own memory so it will not eat up some ram ...
Check the page you will see some ram offerings , you need a 16GB DDR3L 1600 ram (do not pay more than $100 for it) that will ensure you will not get any slower with more programs open at once
You also need mSATA SSD (usually 150-180$ for 500GB) mSATA is a plug in SSD storage they are the smallest size and the fastest too ..

If things get too expensive get the i5 model It is the same as the i7 model but with a little slower processor (still pretty fast for your usage)

Notes : you need DDR3L rams (notice the L letter) also called laptop ram , do not get desktop ram as it will not plug it .
NUC gets hot easily so do not put them in an extreme hot place like in direct sunshine and clean them up from dust every 2-3 weeks .. still your usage will not get it pretty hot like in gaming . You will experience an extremely fast NUC as you have the latest and the fastest technology so far (mSATA SSDs and eDRAM for integrated graphics)

 

[mhalpert]

Oh my! Thanks for all the information. That's a really big help! Yes, I was looking at the smallest size first, for space saving, and then determining whether it could run the programs I usually use. Thus the NUC. Or anything comparable size-wise that can manage the applications I typically leave open: illustrator, evernote, word, lots of browsers, also a security camera system.

I am not a power user or a gamer. I use illustrator mostly for document design, and am interested in text-based motion graphics. Small things. Not huge movies or video editing.

As I now understand it, the size of the graphics card will determine the size of the case. If the work I do requires a dedicated card, then the very smallest "box" I can get is a mini-ITX (which still seems huge to me). If I am not really doing such major stuff, then an integrated card, especially the Iris 6100, might work just fine. is this correct?

How do I make that determination?

If you are not doing anything big (drawing a 3d building for example) then integrated will be enough
Your usage is pretty basic , 2D line drawing (document design) + you need alot of programs open at once
So you need integrated graphics for the 2D + you need lots of RAM to store the open sessions of your programs
I suggest BRIX pro It has an amazing processor + top of the line integrated graphics which has its own memory so it will not eat up some ram ...
Check the page you will see some ram offerings , you need a 16GB DDR3L 1600 ram (do not pay more than $100 for it) that will ensure you will not get any slower with more programs open at once
You also need mSATA SSD (usually 150-180$ for 500GB) mSATA is a plug in SSD storage they are the smallest size and the fastest too ..

If things get too expensive get the i5 model It is the same as the i7 model but with a little slower processor (still pretty fast for your usage)

Notes : you need DDR3L rams (notice the L letter) also called laptop ram , do not get desktop ram as it will not plug it .
NUC gets hot easily so do not put them in an extreme hot place like in direct sunshine and clean them up from dust every 2-3 weeks .. still your usage will not get it pretty hot like in gaming . You will experience an extremely fast NUC as you have the latest and the fastest technology so far (mSATA SSDs and eDRAM for integrated graphics)

Hello! I dropped off for this period in order to research and wrap my head around your advice. Meanwhile I read a few more articles here at Tom's, especially one called: Seven Small (But Powerful) Mini-PCs, Reviewed. And also studied the specification requirements for Adobe illustrator and Go-live (for the motion graphics).

So here's the list I'm comparing:

Gigabyte Brix Pro: GB-BXi7-4770R
Size: 62 x 111.4 x 114.4 mm/ 2.5" x 4.4" x 4.5"
Graphics: integrated - Intel® Iris™ Pro graphics 5200 (but with its own memory, so won't waste RAM)
All Specs: http://www.gigabyte.us/products/product-page.aspx?pid=4888#ov

Gigabyte Brix Gaming: GB-BXi7G3-760
Size: 59.6 x 128 x 115.4 mm/ 2.35" x 5" x 4.54"
Graphics: dedicated - Nvidia® GeForce® GTX™ 760
All Specs: http://www.gigabyte.us/products/product-page.aspx?pid=5156&kw=GB-BXi7G3-7601.0#ov

ASRock VisionX 471B Haswell
Size: 70 x 200 x 200/ 2.75" x 7.9" x 7.9"
Graphics: dedicated - AMD Radeon™ R9 M270X (with 1 GB GDDR5 VRAM)
All Specs: http://www.asrock.com/nettop/index.us.asp

HP Z230 SFF Workstation
Size: 3.95" x 13.3" x 15"
Graphics: Hybrid Graphics > Intel HD Graphics 4600 (on board) + AMD FirePro V3900 (dedicated)
All Specs: http://www8.hp.com/us/en/campaigns/workstations/z230.html

I added the ASRock based on its dedicated graphics and power, though when I called ASrock their own technical does not suggest this for PC use. I thought that was weird. If it can handle gaming, and the specs seem to line-up why not?

I added the conventional HP SFF as a point of comparison and a back-up choice. Even though it's "BIG", I like that it can be oriented horizontally or vertically. I also like what I understand to be the "hybrid graphics", but that could be just a sales pitch. And mostly, to address my biggest concern based on the comments so far, is that I won't have to throw it away in order to keep up with O/S or software technology. I could potentially just upgrade, vs with the mini's which won't allow that. Is that right?

As for the Brix Pro (4770R) vs the Brix gaming (G3-760), the 4770R has Intel Iris Pro 5200 vs the G3-760 which has dedicated. Which one (that is, GPU) is better...i.e. most capable, most beautiful, faster, solid, most "future proof"? When I called Gigabyte, their tech support advised the Brix Pro bcs the graphics were better.

Initially, when we were looking at the Intel NUC, it was discounted as an option I thought because it only had Iris Pro 6100? So why is the Brix Pro with 5200 more advanced than that model? Is it because of the motherboard, or the CPU for some reason? Or maybe because you can get 16GB RAM in there? Is it somehow more flexible to work with inside? Is it somehow more upgrade-able?

So, remaining concerns are:

• 
  
  - weak wifi with these two as well? And what does that mean in a real-world setting?
  - It can get loud with fans? Is this only when under extreme serious gaming conditions? Or also if running many programs? How loud is loud? My system now sounds like it's been smoking 2 paks of cigarettes all its life.
  - back to the integrated/dedicated issue: how will I feel a difference in a real-world setting?
  - if I am a regular person, who wants a computer to last 5+ years, do I make a mistake with either of the Brix models?
  
  As an aside, just to make you laugh, this is what I am currently using:
  
  Current system: XP Pro Kv.2002, scv pak 3
  Current Computer: Intel pentium dual CPU, E2220 @ 2.40GHZ, 3.12 G RAM
  
  So I am desperately in need of something better! Even a pad of paper and a pencil would function more smoothly than this system at this point! What I want: something small and powerful that's going to last a good number of years. I'm not an enthusiast, so the next new thing is not my priority. Turning on the machine and having it work, fast, and without issue, is what I want.
  
  Thanks for giving me so much to think about, and so much guidance!
  
  

 

[mhalpert]

Personally, I have been considering buying a NUC using a Skylake generation CPU sometime next year. Anywaste...

The Gigabyte GB-BXi7G3-760 is a pretty powerful NUC, but you should watch the following review of the that NUC, with a Core i5-4200H which has a 47w TDP; the same as a quad core i7 CPU. It is a bit loud and it experiences thermal throttling when playing games, but I assume Illustrator should be fine since it should be less demanding compared to games.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGI8iYjk0rc

Thanks also for your response. I had to really research all these suggestions since I'm just learning, so that's why it took a while to respond. Question: isn't the Brix Gaming GB-BXi7G3-760 that you recommended made by Gigabyte not Intel, which makes the NUC? Or is everything that small now called a NUC these days for convenience? I was confused for a sec.

I did watch the video you forwarded (he's fun to watch), and understand that there were certain short-comings with the model he was reviewing, which was the Brix Gaming BXi5G-760. Noisy even at idle. Thermal throttling to protect itself when it gets too hot. A lot of what he says is over my head...like the clocking/over-clocking issues and how it relates to performance.

What I got from his review is that the model looks totally awesome on the spec sheet, but in gaming use it can't perform optimally because it tries to cool itself off by going slower when under pressure. At the end of the day, even though the specs look great, it doesn't compete with other slightly larger FF's. That's the way I understand it. He also said, though, that the next generation of processor should address both the noise and thermal throttling issues, and when it does, watch out!

So...is the model you recommended, Brix Gaming GB-BXi7G3-760, the next generation? Do you think that those issues might have been addressed?

 

[jaguarskx]

I did not recommend you the Brix GB-BXi7G3-760, Zenprime did. I provided you with the video review so that you can make an informed decision.

NUC is a small form factor PC that uses an Intel CPU. Any company can make a NUC as long as they follow Intel's basic design specifications. CPUs and GPUs are designed to throttle down the clock speed if they are running too hot. Throttling the clock speed will reduce performance, but it will protect the hardware from being destroyed by excessive heat. Basically the review shows that while the CPU does not have any overheating issues with the Gigabyte NUC, but the desktop GTX 760 basically generates too much heat for it to be used for a prolonged period of time in such a tiny form factor.

Personally I would avoid the Gigabyte NUC. Even if I were not to play games with it, I would probably get annoyed by the fan noise. I cannot really make any NUC recommendation because I have not looked at them closely yet since I am not planning to buy one this year. For my needs I will likely buy a NUC that uses Intel's integrated graphics core. I do not actually need to buy a NUC since I already have a gaming rig, HTPC and two laptops... and I will be replacing one of the laptops next year. It's more to play around with since the NUC can be mounted behind a monitor that I have not used in a couple of years and hooking up a bluetooth keyboard and mouse to it.

Basically, the NUC may be an early Christmas 2016 present for myself.

 

[ZENprime]

Hello! I dropped off for this period in order to research and wrap my head around your advice. Meanwhile I read a few more articles here at Tom's, especially one called: Seven Small (But Powerful) Mini-PCs, Reviewed. And also studied the specification requirements for Adobe illustrator and Go-live (for the motion graphics).

So here's the list I'm comparing:

Gigabyte Brix Pro: GB-BXi7-4770R
Size: 62 x 111.4 x 114.4 mm/ 2.5" x 4.4" x 4.5"
Graphics: integrated - Intel® Iris™ Pro graphics 5200 (but with its own memory, so won't waste RAM)
All Specs: http://www.gigabyte.us/products/product-page.aspx?pid=4888#ov

Gigabyte Brix Gaming: GB-BXi7G3-760
Size: 59.6 x 128 x 115.4 mm/ 2.35" x 5" x 4.54"
Graphics: dedicated - Nvidia® GeForce® GTX™ 760
All Specs: http://www.gigabyte.us/products/product-page.aspx?pid=5156&kw=GB-BXi7G3-7601.0#ov

ASRock VisionX 471B Haswell
Size: 70 x 200 x 200/ 2.75" x 7.9" x 7.9"
Graphics: dedicated - AMD Radeon™ R9 M270X (with 1 GB GDDR5 VRAM)
All Specs: http://www.asrock.com/nettop/index.us.asp

HP Z230 SFF Workstation
Size: 3.95" x 13.3" x 15"
Graphics: Hybrid Graphics > Intel HD Graphics 4600 (on board) + AMD FirePro V3900 (dedicated)
All Specs: http://www8.hp.com/us/en/campaigns/workstations/z230.html

I added the ASRock based on its dedicated graphics and power, though when I called ASrock their own technical does not suggest this for PC use. I thought that was weird. If it can handle gaming, and the specs seem to line-up why not?

weird , it is a good NUC but not the best .

I added the conventional HP SFF as a point of comparison and a back-up choice. Even though it's "BIG", I like that it can be oriented horizontally or vertically. I also like what I understand to be the "hybrid graphics", but that could be just a sales pitch. And mostly, to address my biggest concern based on the comments so far, is that I won't have to throw it away in order to keep up with O/S or software technology. I could potentially just upgrade, vs with the mini's which won't allow that. Is that right?

hybrid graphics is for example if you have integrated amd graphics + amd low graphics card ; they can combine together for better performance , however in the HP SFF the hybrid graphics means you can run more than 3 monitors at the same time , useless for your usage .
backup option should always be an ITX case sized computer ; silverstone RVZ01 can be oriented horizontally or vertically . has good airflow , you can configure any ITX hardware inside it , supports after market coolers which will give you very quiet case . you will always be able to upgrade any hardware inside the case and remain using the case itself ; this case size is 382mm (W) x 105mm (H) x 350mm (D)

As for the Brix Pro (4770R) vs the Brix gaming (G3-760), the 4770R has Intel Iris Pro 5200 vs the G3-760 which has dedicated. Which one (that is, GPU) is better...i.e. most capable, most beautiful, faster, solid, most "future proof"? When I called Gigabyte, their tech support advised the Brix Pro bcs the graphics were better.

depends , if you do not game then the iris pro 5200 is enough for you
if you game and want to play on ultra 1080p you need the G3-760 .

Initially, when we were looking at the Intel NUC, it was discounted as an option I thought because it only had Iris Pro 6100? So why is the Brix Pro with 5200 more advanced than that model? Is it because of the motherboard, or the CPU for some reason? Or maybe because you can get 16GB RAM in there? Is it somehow more flexible to work with inside? Is it somehow more upgrade-able?

bad naming from intel ;
There is 4 iris pro models :
6200/6100
5200/5100

both 6200/5200 has eDRAM(integrated graphics memory) in them making them much much faster than the 6100/5100
so from the fastest to slowest :
6200---->5200---->6100---->5100

So, remaining concerns are:

• 
  
  - weak wifi with these two as well? And what does that mean in a real-world setting?
  - It can get loud with fans? Is this only when under extreme serious gaming conditions? Or also if running many programs? How loud is loud? My system now sounds like it's been smoking 2 paks of cigarettes all its life.
  - back to the integrated/dedicated issue: how will I feel a difference in a real-world setting?
  - if I am a regular person, who wants a computer to last 5+ years, do I make a mistake with either of the Brix models?

• 
  -to be honest I do not know much about how much are they weak in wifi ;
  weak means they can not get good signal far away from the router .
  - Yes any NUC will get loud with good load on the CPU or GPU ( games )
  - You will only see the difference in 3D stuff / rendering / games ; objects move slower with weaker graphic power
  - By regular means that you do not do any 3D then the integrated graphics will be good for you
  
  
  

  Thanks for giving me so much to think about, and so much guidance!

  Sorry for asking , but why do you want the extreme small size PC (NUC) ?
  Can't you go for ITX size ? what's your budget ?

 

[mhalpert]

Hello! I dropped off for this period in order to research and wrap my head around your advice. Meanwhile I read a few more articles here at Tom's, especially one called: Seven Small (But Powerful) Mini-PCs, Reviewed. And also studied the specification requirements for Adobe illustrator and Go-live (for the motion graphics).

So here's the list I'm comparing:

Gigabyte Brix Pro: GB-BXi7-4770R
Size: 62 x 111.4 x 114.4 mm/ 2.5" x 4.4" x 4.5"
Graphics: integrated - Intel® Iris™ Pro graphics 5200 (but with its own memory, so won't waste RAM)
All Specs: http://www.gigabyte.us/products/product-page.aspx?pid=4888#ov

Gigabyte Brix Gaming: GB-BXi7G3-760
Size: 59.6 x 128 x 115.4 mm/ 2.35" x 5" x 4.54"
Graphics: dedicated - Nvidia® GeForce® GTX™ 760
All Specs: http://www.gigabyte.us/products/product-page.aspx?pid=5156&kw=GB-BXi7G3-7601.0#ov

ASRock VisionX 471B Haswell
Size: 70 x 200 x 200/ 2.75" x 7.9" x 7.9"
Graphics: dedicated - AMD Radeon™ R9 M270X (with 1 GB GDDR5 VRAM)
All Specs: http://www.asrock.com/nettop/index.us.asp

HP Z230 SFF Workstation
Size: 3.95" x 13.3" x 15"
Graphics: Hybrid Graphics > Intel HD Graphics 4600 (on board) + AMD FirePro V3900 (dedicated)
All Specs: http://www8.hp.com/us/en/campaigns/workstations/z230.html

I added the ASRock based on its dedicated graphics and power, though when I called ASrock their own technical does not suggest this for PC use. I thought that was weird. If it can handle gaming, and the specs seem to line-up why not?

weird , it is a good NUC but not the best .

I added the conventional HP SFF as a point of comparison and a back-up choice. Even though it's "BIG", I like that it can be oriented horizontally or vertically. I also like what I understand to be the "hybrid graphics", but that could be just a sales pitch. And mostly, to address my biggest concern based on the comments so far, is that I won't have to throw it away in order to keep up with O/S or software technology. I could potentially just upgrade, vs with the mini's which won't allow that. Is that right?

hybrid graphics is for example if you have integrated amd graphics + amd low graphics card ; they can combine together for better performance , however in the HP SFF the hybrid graphics means you can run more than 3 monitors at the same time , useless for your usage .
backup option should always be an ITX case sized computer ; silverstone RVZ01 can be oriented horizontally or vertically . has good airflow , you can configure any ITX hardware inside it , supports after market coolers which will give you very quiet case . you will always be able to upgrade any hardware inside the case and remain using the case itself ; this case size is 382mm (W) x 105mm (H) x 350mm (D)

As for the Brix Pro (4770R) vs the Brix gaming (G3-760), the 4770R has Intel Iris Pro 5200 vs the G3-760 which has dedicated. Which one (that is, GPU) is better...i.e. most capable, most beautiful, faster, solid, most "future proof"? When I called Gigabyte, their tech support advised the Brix Pro bcs the graphics were better.

depends , if you do not game then the iris pro 5200 is enough for you
if you game and want to play on ultra 1080p you need the G3-760 .

Initially, when we were looking at the Intel NUC, it was discounted as an option I thought because it only had Iris Pro 6100? So why is the Brix Pro with 5200 more advanced than that model? Is it because of the motherboard, or the CPU for some reason? Or maybe because you can get 16GB RAM in there? Is it somehow more flexible to work with inside? Is it somehow more upgrade-able?

bad naming from intel ;
There is 4 iris pro models :
6200/6100
5200/5100

both 6200/5200 has eDRAM(integrated graphics memory) in them making them much much faster than the 6100/5100
so from the fastest to slowest :
6200---->5200---->6100---->5100

So, remaining concerns are:

• 
  
  - weak wifi with these two as well? And what does that mean in a real-world setting?
  - It can get loud with fans? Is this only when under extreme serious gaming conditions? Or also if running many programs? How loud is loud? My system now sounds like it's been smoking 2 paks of cigarettes all its life.
  - back to the integrated/dedicated issue: how will I feel a difference in a real-world setting?
  - if I am a regular person, who wants a computer to last 5+ years, do I make a mistake with either of the Brix models?

• 
  -to be honest I do not know much about how much are they weak in wifi ;
  weak means they can not get good signal far away from the router .
  - Yes any NUC will get loud with good load on the CPU or GPU ( games )
  - You will only see the difference in 3D stuff / rendering / games ; objects move slower with weaker graphic power
  - By regular means that you do not do any 3D then the integrated graphics will be good for you
  
  
  

  Thanks for giving me so much to think about, and so much guidance!

  Sorry for asking , but why do you want the extreme small size PC (NUC) ?
  Can't you go for ITX size ? what's your budget ?

• 
  
  Not a problem at all. I appreciate that you're giving it consideration. I didn't even know a NUC existed when I started researching (so it wasn't about needing to "go extreme"), but it looked like it solved two concerns: aesthetics and space, which is limited. There isn't room for something large on or under the desk (especially with two monitors), and I just thought that the mini-whatever would be acceptable either on the desk or mounted to the display. It seemed easy.
  
  If it was one of the larger mini's, I might also be able to put it in the cabinet (10.75" deep x 21"wide x 14.75" h -- or higher if I absolutely had to re-construct the internal shelving). An ITX I suppose would be fine too if I could find one that would fit in the cabinet. But if I physically configured everything that way, I would probably need more "stuff", like I guess a port extender for the desk and maybe speakers?
  
  So anyway, the PC wouldn't even have to be super-mini: another example that I read about here, Logic Supply's ML300, was perfect in terms of size. The cooling seemed smart: quiet and dust-free sounds great. And it looks like there's space inside to accommodate whatever I need, maybe even a serious GPU? (I guess I discounted it because I didn't feel comfortable with my level of understanding). Yes, it is expensive. But, if I got a thumbs-up and a good idea of what to put inside, I might be able to make it work.
  
  Budget-wise, I was hoping to put together an entire system that will last a long time, including 1 monitor to start (I like the HP Elite Display E241i 24" LPS LED especially because of the pivot and 180 swivel feature), and BD/cd/DVD drive with read/write (at least for cd/DVD) for $1,200. I can stretch that if necessary a few hundred for the perfect thing. Based on what I've read, it seems reasonable...
  
  By the way, your detailed answers are truly so helpful. Especially the answer about Intel's naming and eDRAM. Makes complete sense.

 

[mhalpert]

I did not recommend you the Brix GB-BXi7G3-760, Zenprime did. I provided you with the video review so that you can make an informed decision.

NUC is a small form factor PC that uses an Intel CPU. Any company can make a NUC as long as they follow Intel's basic design specifications. CPUs and GPUs are designed to throttle down the clock speed if they are running too hot. Throttling the clock speed will reduce performance, but it will protect the hardware from being destroyed by excessive heat. Basically the review shows that while the CPU does not have any overheating issues with the Gigabyte NUC, but the desktop GTX 760 basically generates too much heat for it to be used for a prolonged period of time in such a tiny form factor.

Personally I would avoid the Gigabyte NUC. Even if I were not to play games with it, I would probably get annoyed by the fan noise. I cannot really make any NUC recommendation because I have not looked at them closely yet since I am not planning to buy one this year. For my needs I will likely buy a NUC that uses Intel's integrated graphics core. I do not actually need to buy a NUC since I already have a gaming rig, HTPC and two laptops... and I will be replacing one of the laptops next year. It's more to play around with since the NUC can be mounted behind a monitor that I have not used in a couple of years and hooking up a bluetooth keyboard and mouse to it.

Basically, the NUC may be an early Christmas 2016 present for myself.

Got it. Thanks. Seems like the NUC is falling into the 'for fun' category at present, not quite mainstream for the person who just needs 1 primary computer. But still...such a thing would be so nice for those of us who are designers, and need a powerful tool that fits our space and presents as clean and tidy and contemporary.

 

[ZENprime]

For your usage :
browsers
evernote
adobe illustrator
word

NUC is very good for that usage ; it's just the ITX case will provide better options , have you took a look at the RVZ01 case ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlRHca2qrHM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NE-Tk5uzDA0
the birx pro and brix gaming are both good for your usage .
as they both have great CPU inside them , integrated graphics inside them are enough for your usage .
still they are loud if you care much about noise
VisionX 471B comes all installed so you do not need to buy storage or ram , but have lower hardware than the other NUCs

 

[mhalpert]

For your usage :
browsers
evernote
adobe illustrator
word

NUC is very good for that usage ; it's just the ITX case will provide better options , have you took a look at the RVZ01 case ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlRHca2qrHM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NE-Tk5uzDA0
the birx pro and brix gaming are both good for your usage .
as they both have great CPU inside them , integrated graphics inside them are enough for your usage .
still they are loud if you care much about noise
VisionX 471B comes all installed so you do not need to buy storage or ram , but have lower hardware than the other NUCs

That Silverstone Raven looks pretty nice. Not that I really know what I'm looking at. Did you recommend it because of its orientation possibilities, or because of its unique internal structure? Do you recommend the same internal build that you had previously suggested for the other mini-ITX?

For me, right now it's between the Brix Pro and now the RVZo1. Next I will talk to the local guy who will do the build. I will post back with any other questions or, better, with the resolution!

 

[ZENprime]

That Silverstone Raven looks pretty nice. Not that I really know what I'm looking at. Did you recommend it because of its orientation possibilities, or because of its unique internal structure? Do you recommend the same internal build that you had previously suggested for the other mini-ITX?

For me, right now it's between the Brix Pro and now the RVZo1. Next I will talk to the local guy who will do the build. I will post back with any other questions or, better, with the resolution!

I meant the case alone without the internals ... you can change the internals any time ,,,, I mean just look at the case size and the orientation possibilities ...

Look at this empty case :
http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=411
It is an ITX case which is smaller than the RVZ01 and still supports the same internals as the RVZ01

 

[teknobug]

There's some of those Gigabyte Brix with the Iris Pro GPU which are pretty good (can be equiv to a GT740). However using intense graphics applications for long periods of time isn't a good idea in a small package like a NUC, I have an Intel NUC myself and played Left 4 Dead 2 on it once and it was as hot as a pan on the stove after a while.

As others said, go with a ITX setup and there's a handful of low profile GPUs you can buy.

 

[mhalpert]

That Silverstone Raven looks pretty nice. Not that I really know what I'm looking at. Did you recommend it because of its orientation possibilities, or because of its unique internal structure? Do you recommend the same internal build that you had previously suggested for the other mini-ITX?

For me, right now it's between the Brix Pro and now the RVZo1. Next I will talk to the local guy who will do the build. I will post back with any other questions or, better, with the resolution!

I meant the case alone without the internals ... you can change the internals any time ,,,, I mean just look at the case size and the orientation possibilities ...

Look at this empty case :
http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=411
It is an ITX case which is smaller than the RVZ01 and still supports the same internals as the RVZ01

Right. I knew what you meant. And even though "The Raven" is pretty hot looking, the ML05 case is really a much better size solution. Thanks for bringing that possibility to my attention. I'll talk to the guy and see what he comes up with for a suitable build.

 

[ZENprime]

Sorry made a mistake . ML05 does not supports good graphics card . only the RVZ01 supports good graphics cards .

 

[mhalpert]

Sorry made a mistake . ML05 does not supports good graphics card . only the RVZ01 supports good graphics cards .

Ok sounds good. Thanks for the heads-up!

 

[mhalpert]

Look at this empty case :
http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=411
It is an ITX case which is smaller than the RVZ01 and still supports the same internals as the RVZ01[/quotemsg]

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello again --

So I've decided to drop the NUCs completely, and build up the Raven RVZ01 case. I've watched a ton of videos and reviews, but am still not confident in what components to pick for the build.

For instance, as per your previous suggestions, I know that PSU stability is very important, but I don't know whether the Seasonic 620W will fit in the space allotted. (I see the Silverstone ST45SF or ST45SF-G used a lot. Is that considered a decent PSU?) In addition to the power supply, based on your advice so far, I know I will need:

- 16GB RAM
- 500 SSD
- i5 or i7 (also Intel Xeon E3-1231 V3 3.4GHz Quad-Core was suggested), but no clue how to determine which one or which model number will be best
- slim cd/DVD with burn capability
- dedicated GPU (but not AMD Radeon bcs of certain Illustrator functionality only supported for it in Windows 8+, when I prefer Windows 7 pro, 64 bit most likely)
- appropriate motherboard for the size
- maybe a cooler with this build?
- additional or alternate fans?

Goal: a fast, efficient, reliable, upgradeable computer for $1000 or so (not including monitor, keyboard/mouse, cables) It would be great to fit in a full version (not OEM) of Windows 7 Pro, 64 bit, if possible…so if I need to switch something out, I won’t have to re-buy the O/S.

I’m not sure whether this is the right thread to ask for build help, so if not, can you advise the best place/forum here to help me put together a build-list?

 

[ZENprime]

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Xeon E3-1231 V3 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($232.99 @ SuperBiiz)
CPU Cooler: be quiet! SHADOW ROCK LP 51.4 CFM CPU Cooler ($39.90 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-B85N PHOENIX-WIFI Mini ITX LGA1150 Motherboard ($87.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($74.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 850 Pro Series 256GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($135.49 @ OutletPC)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 3TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($77.40 @ SuperBiiz)
Video Card: Zotac GeForce GTX 960 4GB Video Card ($212.98 @ Newegg)
Case: Silverstone RVZ01B Mini ITX Desktop Case ($71.10 @ SuperBiiz)
Power Supply: Silverstone 600W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular SFX Power Supply ($117.99 @ Directron)
Optical Drive: LG GS40N DVD/CD Writer ($39.99 @ B&H)
Other: Slimline sata to sata cable ($10.00)
Total: $1100.81
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-09-06 13:21 EDT-0400


16 GB ram - done .

500 SSD - ssd are extremely fast storage devices but they aren't for long term storage , so you need SSD + HDD storage where you install windows + your applications on the SSD to enjoy fast responsive apps and put your data files and folders in the HDD so you can enjoy long term storage . You are fine with 256 GB SSD and 3 TB HDD
Samsung 850 Pro SSD are one of the fastest SSD in the market right now .

i5/7 - these are processors with integrated graphics / an E3-1231 v3 is a Core i7 4770 without integrated graphics and sells for a cheaper price , basically a processor for people who will use a dedicated graphics card , it has the same performance of the i7 4770

slim dvd/cd writer - done , but note you need a slim sata to sata cable

dedicated GPU for illustrator - there is an option inside illustrator which lets you use GPU rendering to help you with fast zooming / moving / line drawing , nvidia and intel runs it on windows 7 sp1 and later / amd runs it on windows 8 and later
Some people benefit from it and some other doesn't like the line length or font size when using it
You can turn on or off this option .
I have gone with the GTX 960 nvidia card , it's a mid to high end card .


motherboard - I have put a good motherboard for this build , it has wifi and bluetooth .

cooler - Good low profile quiet cooler , remember it comes with thermal paste pre-applied so you do not need to put thermal paste on it .

case fans - the case comes with 2 fans , 1 on top above the CPU cooler , 1 on bottom near the GPU / you might want to remove the fan above the CPU cooler and put in next to the bottom fan in case of the cooler not having enough space .

Windows - couldn't find windows 7 64bit sp1 retail on the web stores , you have to look for it on local stores or ebay / amazon sellers / OEM windows are put into the motherboard and it remains as long as you have not changed your motherboard . I think windows 8.1 sells as retail only and are transferable , I am not 100% sure about the 8.1 being transferable

PSU -This case needs a SFX size power supply , seasonic only makes 300/350 watt psu in SFX size , you need at least a 450 watt with great build quality power supply to run this computer , sliverstone makes SFX 500/600 watt power supplies and has good build quality on them I have included a 600 watt silverstone sfx power supply you can go for a 500 watt sliverstone sfx power supply for this build to lower the price about 20$ , silverstone sfx 600 watt psu is the highest output PSU in sfx size , there isn't a SFX psu that outputs more than 600 watt right now on the market , just make sure it is not in a 45c room temp.


Price is about $1120 with no rebates or discounts , higher than the $1000 , could save 20$ by getting sfx 500 watt psu or by getting a lower Graphics card .

 

[mhalpert]

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Xeon E3-1231 V3 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($232.99 @ SuperBiiz)
CPU Cooler: be quiet! SHADOW ROCK LP 51.4 CFM CPU Cooler ($39.90 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z97N-WIFI Mini ITX LGA1150 Motherboard ($94.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($74.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 850 Pro Series 256GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($135.49 @ OutletPC)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 3TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($77.40 @ SuperBiiz)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 950 2GB Superclocked Video Card ($149.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Case: Silverstone RVZ01B Mini ITX Desktop Case ($71.10 @ SuperBiiz)
Power Supply: Silverstone 600W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular SFX Power Supply ($117.99 @ Directron)
Optical Drive: LG GS40N DVD/CD Writer ($39.99 @ B&H)
Other: Slimline sata to sata cable ($10.00)
Total: $1044.83
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-09-05 16:24 EDT-0400


16 GB ram - done .

500 SSD - ssd are extremely fast storage devices but they aren't for long term storage , so you need SSD + HDD storage where you install windows + your applications on the SSD to enjoy fast responsive apps and put your data files and folders in the HDD so you can enjoy long term storage . You are fine with 256 GB SSD and 3 TB HDD
Samsung 850 Pro SSD are one of the fastest SSD in the market right now .

i5/7 - these are processors with integrated graphics / an E3-1231 v3 is a Core i7 4770 without integrated graphics and sells for a cheaper price , basically a processor for people who will use a dedicated graphics card , it has the same performance of the i7 4770

slim dvd/cd writer - done , but note you need a slim sata to sata cable

dedicated GPU for illustrator - there is an option inside illustrator which lets you use GPU rendering to help you with fast zooming / moving / line drawing , nvidia and intel runs it on windows 7 sp1 and later / amd runs it on windows 8 and later
Some people benefit from it and some other doesn't like the line length or font size when using it
You can turn on or off this option .
I have gone with the GTX 950 nvidia card , it's a mid-range card with 2 GB video ram .
I went with a strong CPU and a mid GPU because you will use more CPU power than GPU power + GTX 950 is more than enough for your usage and the GPU is upgrade-able in the future .

motherboard - I have put a great motherboard for this build , it has wifi and bluetooth .

cooler - Good low profile quiet cooler , remember it comes with thermal paste pre-applied so you do not need to put thermal paste on it .

case fans - the case comes with 2 fans , 1 on top above the CPU cooler , 1 on bottom near the GPU / you might want to remove the fan above the CPU cooler and put in next to the bottom fan in case of the cooler not having enough space .

Windows - couldn't find windows 7 64bit sp1 retail on the web stores , you have to look for it on local stores or ebay / amazon sellers / OEM windows are put into the motherboard and it remains as long as you have not changed your motherboard . I think windows 8.1 sells as retail only and are transferable , I am not 100% sure about the 8.1 being transferable

PSU -This case needs a SFX size power supply , seasonic only makes 300/350 watt psu in SFX size , you need at least a 450 watt with great build quality power supply to run this computer , sliverstone makes SFX 500/600 watt power supplies and has good build quality on them I have included a 600 watt silverstone sfx power supply you can go for a 500 watt sliverstone sfx power supply for this build to lower the price about 20$ , silverstone sfx 600 watt psu is the highest output PSU in sfx size , there isn't a SFX psu that outputs more than 600 watt right now on the market , just make sure it is not in a 45c room temp.


Price is $1111 with no rebates or discounts , higher than the $1000 , price could go lower if you change into lower motherboard or PSU

Other option is going with a core i5 processor and GTX 960 for better game playing if you are planing to play heavy games . GTX 950 is a good mid-range GPU , but in gaming you would be better with GTX 960

Wow. This is great. You really fit an enormous amount in there. Everything I need.

I am so psyched, I might even try to build it myself! Well I'm a little concerned about messing up, so maybe I'll just watch. I really especially appreciate your explanations and knowing why you chose this or that. A huge educational help!

Do you think the Panasonic W-265 Blu-ray/DVD/CD writer is as good as the LG? I was thinking it might be smart to put a Blu-ray in there if it will fit...

Can't wait to get started -- thank you again for walking me through this process.