[SOLVED] best type of battery for cold?

[achrist0418]

if im looking to draw high amperage for starting in cold weather, what battery type would be the best to go with? say drawing 1000A for 10 or so seconds in -40F weather?

 

[aldan]

what is your vehicle?unless you have a bad starter or a diesel with a bad starter you wont draw any wheres near to 1000a on startup.give us a little more info.

 

[achrist0418]

engine is a 5.9 cummins (bored out to 6.3L with high compression pistons), i clamped it with a hall effect clamp tonight at work, it drew 1,180A while cranking and the grid heaters ran for two cycles of 51 seconds. current draw from those were 330A at start and 275A at the end of the cycle.

i currently have 4 group 49 AGM's but they are older and dont seem to like the cold as much

 

[kanewolf]

A plug-in block heater and battery warmer would be my recommendation.

 

[achrist0418]

no place to plug in any 110V, i could run it off the power inverter but then im back to teh battery question

 

[kanewolf]

no place to plug in any 110V, i could run it off the power inverter but then im back to teh battery question

Having lived in cold climates, large diesels idle all night. Or they have heaters. Or they are brought into heated buildings. Have you thought about a small generator that you could run overnight to provide block and battery heat?

 

[achrist0418]

maybe a generator but what generator would start reliably in -40F weather?

 

[kanewolf]

maybe a generator but what generator would start reliably in -40F weather?

I don't know. I know that a lot of long haul cabs have separate "APU" generators that feed from the main diesel tanks. I don't know if they are kept warm by the big diesel until they are switched on.

 

[achrist0418]

im going to start with new batteries, one of mine split open on teh side... im considering some flooded duracell D8's from batteries plus and a new group 31 up front that would be AGM and isolate the banks.

 

[kanewolf]

im going to start with new batteries, one of mine split open on teh side... im considering some flooded duracell D8's from batteries plus and a new group 31 up front that would be AGM and isolate the banks.

I have heard that Cat branded batteries are some of the best. Don't know that from first hand knowledge, but I have friends that are heavy equipment operators and swear by Cat batteries.

 

[achrist0418]

yea im looking around, still cant get the truck to start. i warmed up all my batteries and charged them, still no go. i get about 6 seconds of cranking and im down to 6 volts. thats 4 group 49 and 1 group 24

 

[aldan]

how cold is it where you are?is this a large truck or a pickup?are these new batteries?if not how old?sorry,lot of questions but i get the feeling we are missing something here.

 

[achrist0418]

the batteries are 4 or 5 years old. one of the batteries split open like a soda can... im buying new batteries tomorrow, getting 4 group 45R's i think. i was considering getting two 8D batteries but the AGM versions are expensive. my block heater shattered on me so i need to get a new one, i moved the power cord to it and it just fractured like uncooked spaghetti.

im not sure what hte temps were actually, i know windchill was -67 and i think we hit -46F actual temps.

i pulled my oil plug and its like silly putty... buying an oil pan heater tomorrow

 

[aldan]

yep,there is your problem.with the oil being that thick,and no heater there is almost no way it would start even with new batteries.also you have to consider what happens if it does flash up with the oil that thick.the possibility of engine damage is very real.the oilpan heater is a good investment.as was suggested earlier i would also think about battery warmers as well.im assuming this is a not a big truck with 24v on start.

 

[achrist0418]

no its 12 but given whats going on im seriously considering converting....

 

[aldan]

you could,conceivably,wire it for a series parallel switch.you would have to find a 24 volt starter but shouldnt be that hard.ive just never in 35 years of pulling wrenches seen this much of a problem starting a diesel truck.i still think that new batteries and at least an oil pan heater is all you need.the fact that you dropped to 6v so fast tells me at least one or more of your batteries is fubart.

 

[achrist0418]

i bought an orilies group 95r AGM (super start platinum) and ordered an X2 group 31 marine from batteries plus (north star brand). combined CCA of 2200a. i plan to get a 3rd new battery in back but might not be right away so i will have 3350cca

 

[aldan]

if those are truly marine batteries they are deep cycle and not for your application.if the battery boxes are all the same size the best thing is to get all the same batteries.adding other batteries is all well and good but keep in mind you also have more cable and connections to screw it up.if you had the original series dual batteries that it came with you would have no trouble starting.that having been said,a diesel must be plugged into some warming device in cold weather.no amount of cca is gonna fix that.

 

[achrist0418]

plugging in is not an option, trying to get enough batteries to over come this. the factory batteries were 750cca. the batteries i bought are starting with 100% reserve and rated for 900+ 0% dicharge cycles. im told they are the best batteries you can guy. northstar battery group is what they are.

 

[aldan]

without plugging it in even if you get it to start the oil is so thick you run the risk of engine damage.i dont know who has been filling your head with all this crap about multiple batteries but really what you need has been outlined for you in previoius posts.we still dont even know what kind,model,make,the truck is despite asking several times.in the end its your vehicle and you can do whatever you want.

 

[achrist0418]

the truck comes with multiple batteries... also i answered what the engine was in the 3rd(?) post. its a 5.9 cummins. not everyone lives some place where they can access 110v for their vehicles, i dont. i have a condo and an under ground parking garage taht i dont fit into so im stuck in teh parkng lot.

in the end i need enough cold cranking amps to be able to start the truck when its -30 with out being pluged in and thus far ive had poor luck with batteries. it always seems the batteries cant deliver enough power

 

[fastcompany2]

I know this is late to the party here but i'm browsing so I'll post. as mentioned you should be running a bank of the same batteries. running new batteries of the same capacity will insure that discharge and charge rates stay close to equal. It would also appear that despite everyone saying plug your truck in that you can't. so can I ask what oil your running? You may be able to go with a really light weight synthetic oil. I'm guessing even after your truck is lit up and in service while its that cold you'll never get your oil up to temp. If thats the case you shouldn't need the protection of say a 15w 40 oil which is probably whats in it. I would switch to a 0w40 oil which they do make for modern diesels so it should have the right additive package in it. 0w40 at -40 i'm sure is still pretty thick but it shouldn't be fry your bearings and break an oil pump thick. Also the best case again with plugging it in I would recommend a 2000 or so watt inverter generator running on propane. buy some like 0w5 synthetic race oil for it and it should start and run reliably and also run quiet and for a long time. I say race oil because you want to have a good zinc package in a small engine and i don't think the straight 30 weight they rec. will work to well in those temps.

 

[phaelax]

I say race oil because you want to have a good zinc package in a small engine

Zinc is mainly in racing oils for those with older engines using flat tappet cams and having no catalytic converter. That's why you don't see it in regular oils for todays cars. It's also technically not legal to use some racing oils in daily street cars. I don't know what you're talking about recommending zinc for small engines.

 

[achrist0418]

i run a zddp additive in my trucks oil as it is, the oil i had in there was a 15w40 but i swapped out to 5w40 and it does start easier. i picked up a single new battery and am thinking of a 2nd when money allows. i got a group 95r for pretty cheap (agm). i have been asking around to various service shops and they all seem to think the differing cca's dont matter. can anyone link me to some information explaining how cca effects discharge rates? thanks.

 

[fastcompany2]

Zinc is mainly in racing oils for those with older engines using flat tappet cams and having no catalytic converter. That's why you don't see it in regular oils for todays cars. It's also technically not legal to use some racing oils in daily street cars. I don't know what you're talking about recommending zinc for small engines.

So I gave an educated opinion and you posted simply to say that I'm wrong? so a small engine is not a car engine so it shouldn't get that oil... Small engines usually (not all) are splash lubricated flat tappet motors with no cat. the purpose of zinc in oil is not just for flat tappets because what the zinc package does is prevent metal to metal contact. zinc is used up in the oil as needed whenever this near metal to metal contact happens. it is essentially burned up in place of doing damage to internal parts. alot of cars today could benefit from having zinc seeing that a lot of overhead cam engines are still basically flat tappet. with no rollers its still a cam lobe being spun right ontop of a valve tappet.. Race oil also usually does something else. Alot do not contain a detergent package. in a race engine you usually want any and all debris to fall to the bottom of the pan and stay there vs being circulated through the system. In a small engine you dont even have a filter so again you want all that debris to rest at the bottom of the engine instead of being splashed around. having no detergent also helps protect against foaming of the oil. When you buy small engine oil from your local stihl or echo dealer your essentially buying race oil. these oil almost always have no detergents and have a zddp package in them. I only rec. the use of "race oil" because I doubt that a "small engine" oil could be purchased in such a low viscosity. My actual job description is race car fabricator. I do not "build" engines as I do not have the machinery to do it but I sure do alot of repairs and use alot of different specialized oils.

i have been asking around to various service shops and they all seem to think the differing cca's dont matter. can anyone link me to some information explaining how cca effects discharge rates? thanks.

I stand corrected on my statement about that. running batteries in parallel should be fine with different cca batteries. the total current is used and the batteries will maintain each other to stay equal. Its running battery banks in series (if you went to 24v system) that each 12v bank must have the same capacity. by the way if you do get your truck lit up and running and you have some sort of job for it like pushing it hard for a little while ( I don't know if you tow or anything) I'd be curious to know what kind of oil temps you see when driving in that climate. like I said you may be able to get away with 0w-40. but an oil change in a diesel is never cheap lol.