Best Water Cooler 2008
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phreejak
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For CPU Waterblock I would have to give it a tie between the D-Tek Fuzion (with nozzle kit for quad core users) or the EK Supreme - you couldn't go wrong with either one.
As for GPU waterblock, for me, the Swiftech Stealth is far and away the better block.
Peltiers are great, I've used them for both my CPU and GPU, what do you want to know about them? It might help us a bit more in answering your questions if you answered the ones that TonyL222 asked you.
As for GPU waterblock, for me, the Swiftech Stealth is far and away the better block.
Peltiers are great, I've used them for both my CPU and GPU, what do you want to know about them? It might help us a bit more in answering your questions if you answered the ones that TonyL222 asked you.
Basically i will be insttaling the water cooling to OC my CPU and try to achieve a silent operation if possible. RE CPU i will be going either for a QUAD CORE or CORE 2 DUO. Which is the best to overclock and which do you suggest.
Mainly i will be using it for Gaming and Graphic design progrmas like Corel Suite, Adobe Photoshop etc...
Mainly i will be using it for Gaming and Graphic design progrmas like Corel Suite, Adobe Photoshop etc...
Did you mean MCR220 or MCR360? You can go to the Swiftech site and the online description of each has a mech diagram with dimensions. You can see if they'd fit into the front of your case. They are excellent rads that are optimized for slow to medium speed fans (i.e., quiet). If all you want to cool is the cpu, then the MCR220 would be my choice. If you think you may want to add the gpu to the loop down the road, go with the MCR360.
- D-Tek Fuzion CPU Block & nozzle Accelerator kit - $67 (or Swiftech Apogee GTX)
- Swiftech MCP655 - $80
- Swiftech MCR360 - $45
- Swiftech MCB-120 radbox - $20 (for external mount, else not needed)
- Masterkleer 7/16" 10 ft - $6
- Swiftech MCRES-Micro - $20
- Distilled Water - $1
- 3x YATE LOON 120mm Case Fan - D12SM-12 - Medium Speed $11
- 3x Fan Grills $5
- 1x Primochill Utopia - $10 (or Swiftech HydrX or Pentosin plus PT Nuke)
- 10x Tubing clamps - $5
You could substitute the 220 for the 360. Even with the 220 you could probably add a 8800 seires gpu. The temps would be higher but still probably under the cpu/gpu red line. Still, I'd go with the 360 just for expandability. One thing to keep in mind. Mount the rad in the front usually means reducing the number of available bays. You could use the radbox for a rear mount.
Dear all thanks for all your great help! Seems that Swiftech is leading in watercooling as everyone seems going for this brand.
I did some research and found the following
The Swiftech MCRES Micro REservior seems like it has some issue, cracking near the hose fittings, cap issues and i also found a write up that if you do a larger reservior you will benefit of a 5 - 8 degrees ( is this true ??? )
What about the Cooling Works Single Bay Reservoir? any one had experience with this ? is it better than the MCRES-Micro ?
Re CPU Water BLock i will go witht he Fuzion + nozzle Accelerator, i also so this model ( Enzotech SCW-1 Sapphire CPU Waterblock, looks very PRO )
Re Coolant i think i will go for the Feser One F1 ( seems that is very good from its spec )
Swiftech MCB-120 radbox ( just found out how this works
neat idea ) how about to connect VGA cables with DVI connectors is it an issue ?
Swiftech MCP655 pump looks the bomb also does this drain lots of power and can i use an external 12v power supply?
Re 120 Fans what type of CFM do you recommend and these are the brands i have availble to buy Scythe, Akasa, Thermaltake Smart Fan, Panaflo, Delta which brand do you recommend
re Radiator which is the best in cooling
ThermoChill PA120.2 2x120mm High Performance Radiator - $119.99
This is dual pass dual row
HW Labs Black Ice GTX240 - Black - $97.95
This is twp pass precool/aftercool
HW Labs Black Ice Xtreme II Dual 120mm - Black - $45.99
2-pass Double-row Low Pressure Drop Radiator
Swiftech MCR220-QP Quiet Power 2X120mm - Black - $39.95
2-pass single row
Logically i can say that the two pass two row is better right?
Re tubing i will be using Tygon sounds good hopefully
Re Clips are the nylon hose clamp any good ?
i think this is all
and thanks once again
I did some research and found the following
The Swiftech MCRES Micro REservior seems like it has some issue, cracking near the hose fittings, cap issues and i also found a write up that if you do a larger reservior you will benefit of a 5 - 8 degrees ( is this true ??? )
What about the Cooling Works Single Bay Reservoir? any one had experience with this ? is it better than the MCRES-Micro ?
Re CPU Water BLock i will go witht he Fuzion + nozzle Accelerator, i also so this model ( Enzotech SCW-1 Sapphire CPU Waterblock, looks very PRO )
Re Coolant i think i will go for the Feser One F1 ( seems that is very good from its spec )
Swiftech MCB-120 radbox ( just found out how this works
neat idea ) how about to connect VGA cables with DVI connectors is it an issue ? Swiftech MCP655 pump looks the bomb
also does this drain lots of power and can i use an external 12v power supply? Re 120 Fans what type of CFM do you recommend and these are the brands i have availble to buy Scythe, Akasa, Thermaltake Smart Fan, Panaflo, Delta which brand do you recommend
re Radiator which is the best in cooling
ThermoChill PA120.2 2x120mm High Performance Radiator - $119.99
This is dual pass dual row
HW Labs Black Ice GTX240 - Black - $97.95
This is twp pass precool/aftercool
HW Labs Black Ice Xtreme II Dual 120mm - Black - $45.99
2-pass Double-row Low Pressure Drop Radiator
Swiftech MCR220-QP Quiet Power 2X120mm - Black - $39.95
2-pass single row
Logically i can say that the two pass two row is better right?
Re tubing i will be using Tygon sounds good hopefully
Re Clips are the nylon hose clamp any good ?
i think this is all
and thanks once again
phreejak
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- May 11, 2006
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I've been using the Swiftech MCRES Micro Reservior for over a year now and I've never experienced any issues with it leaking in any way.
The Enzotech waterblock is nice but, it's all bling because it doesn't perform anywhere near what you see in other top-of-the-line CPU waterblocks.
In a dual-pass radiator the water flows down one half-side, U-turns, and back up the other half-side. For multiple row cores, dual-pass is always better and flow restriction doesn't really come into it. The vast bulk of the flow restriction in these types of cores all comes from the fittings. The pressure drop difference is insignificant when water blocks are involved, so long as the radiators have correctly designed end-tanks. Higher CFM fans are more suited for this type of radiator.
Something else that you might consider if you o'clock more than one component (i.e CPU & GPU) is # of rads and rad placement. The reason I mention this is if you o'clock both the CPU and GPU then you have to figure that both components will be giving off alot of heat. If you have just one rad then that will mean that one of the two major components will have to suffer from the heat of the other. With a single rad for the two, no matter what rad it is, the flow of the loop will bring the heat from one component to the next one and that waterblock will have to deal with two heat sources like this:
reservoir - pump - cpu waterblock - gpu waterblock - rad - back to reservoir
or
reservoir - pump - cpu waterblock - rad - gpu waterblock - back to reservoir
In either case, the coolant will pick up the heat from one block and carry it to the next before it hits the rad again. This means that one of the blocks will not perform like you would want it to. This is, though, only a large concern if you o'clock both components. Just know that the o'clock CPU (especially if it is a quad) will generate alot of heat by itself. This is why I advocate the use of two rads when at all possible - one after each major waterblock - to ensure neither block have to suffer the heat from the other.
Just food for thought.....
The Enzotech waterblock is nice but, it's all bling because it doesn't perform anywhere near what you see in other top-of-the-line CPU waterblocks.
In a dual-pass radiator the water flows down one half-side, U-turns, and back up the other half-side. For multiple row cores, dual-pass is always better and flow restriction doesn't really come into it. The vast bulk of the flow restriction in these types of cores all comes from the fittings. The pressure drop difference is insignificant when water blocks are involved, so long as the radiators have correctly designed end-tanks. Higher CFM fans are more suited for this type of radiator.
Something else that you might consider if you o'clock more than one component (i.e CPU & GPU) is # of rads and rad placement. The reason I mention this is if you o'clock both the CPU and GPU then you have to figure that both components will be giving off alot of heat. If you have just one rad then that will mean that one of the two major components will have to suffer from the heat of the other. With a single rad for the two, no matter what rad it is, the flow of the loop will bring the heat from one component to the next one and that waterblock will have to deal with two heat sources like this:
reservoir - pump - cpu waterblock - gpu waterblock - rad - back to reservoir
or
reservoir - pump - cpu waterblock - rad - gpu waterblock - back to reservoir
In either case, the coolant will pick up the heat from one block and carry it to the next before it hits the rad again. This means that one of the blocks will not perform like you would want it to. This is, though, only a large concern if you o'clock both components. Just know that the o'clock CPU (especially if it is a quad) will generate alot of heat by itself. This is why I advocate the use of two rads when at all possible - one after each major waterblock - to ensure neither block have to suffer the heat from the other.
Just food for thought.....
Swiftech is indeed a quality maker of WC hardware, but there are also others. The MicroRes is probably the most recommended reservoir on just about every WC forum on the net that I frequent. I have one as well. No issues here. The size of the res has no bearing on cooling - certainly not 5-8 degrees. In fact, many WC'ers don't use a res, but just use a T-Line instead. A res is a little bit easier to bleed for noob. I just prefer one. Some folks may prefer a bay res. More of a personal choice and not a cooling choice.
People will argue over coolant. Fesser 1 is more expensive than the choices I gave, but will work just as well.
Fans, I like the 77CFM (medium speed) Yate Loons. I think you said you wanted to keep things quiet. Try to go for the 38mm depth fans instead of 25mm. They lessen the dead spot on the rad where the fan hub is. If you go with the BI or PA, use a shroud for even better performance. Both have higher performance that the Swiftech - but they also cost twice as much and give you maybe a few degrees better performance. Not an issue if that's what you want. Any of them will cool your setup. As you can see, I have a PA120.3 myself.
Tygon is more costly, but you will notice the difference from other brands. Probably easiest for a noob to work with. MasterKleer is very good too. The nylon hose clamps work very well, some people even use zipties.
Lots of debate on loop order. Here's my conclusion. The only MUST in loop order is that the reservoir/T-Line needs to directly feed the pump and be place higher in the loop than the pump. Some will say that the pump should feed the cpu for best head pressure. Others will say that the rad should feed the cpu 'cause its the "coolest" water. I say - other than the res/pump relationship - that order really doesn't matter in a closed loop. Rather you should order your loop to minimize the amount of tubing (direct paths between components) and minimize tight bends (restrictions). In a closed loop, the temp will tend to equalize across the entire loop, and the delta from the coolest to the hottest will only be maybe 2 degrees.
People will argue over coolant. Fesser 1 is more expensive than the choices I gave, but will work just as well.
Fans, I like the 77CFM (medium speed) Yate Loons. I think you said you wanted to keep things quiet. Try to go for the 38mm depth fans instead of 25mm. They lessen the dead spot on the rad where the fan hub is. If you go with the BI or PA, use a shroud for even better performance. Both have higher performance that the Swiftech - but they also cost twice as much and give you maybe a few degrees better performance. Not an issue if that's what you want. Any of them will cool your setup. As you can see, I have a PA120.3 myself.
Tygon is more costly, but you will notice the difference from other brands. Probably easiest for a noob to work with. MasterKleer is very good too. The nylon hose clamps work very well, some people even use zipties.
Lots of debate on loop order. Here's my conclusion. The only MUST in loop order is that the reservoir/T-Line needs to directly feed the pump and be place higher in the loop than the pump. Some will say that the pump should feed the cpu for best head pressure. Others will say that the rad should feed the cpu 'cause its the "coolest" water. I say - other than the res/pump relationship - that order really doesn't matter in a closed loop. Rather you should order your loop to minimize the amount of tubing (direct paths between components) and minimize tight bends (restrictions). In a closed loop, the temp will tend to equalize across the entire loop, and the delta from the coolest to the hottest will only be maybe 2 degrees.
phreejak
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Low CFM fans will produce some kind of result for you with the dual-pass but it won't be as effective. Generally, you would use low CFM fans with single-pass rads - though, those type are not as effective as their dual pass counterparts. If you want quiet, just stick with fans in the upper 20s to lower 30s in dBA output. In that area you should be able to get 120mm fans with a CFM anywhere from 40 - 80, which is excellent for dual-pass.
The Laing D5 and the Swiftech MCP655 are the same pump - just re-branded by Swiftech. Excellent performance with 5 speeds. Draws 2 amps, and is designed to connect to you battery via 4 pin molex. I don't see why you couldn't use an external 12v power supply.
You must be looking at the Thermochill. It usually comes with Polypropylene barbs (confirm first). Metal ones are hard to come by. You can try these retailers:
http://www.petrastechshop.com/ekhifig3th1o.html
http://www.ncixus.com/products/25389/63018/Thermochill/
Petra's is a great online retailer for water cooling. I also like Jabtech.com, Danger Den, Performance-PCs and Xoxide
Guys is the D-TEK FuZion CPU water block the same thing as Vortex XP but branded differntly, you can have a look here http://www.frozencpu.com/products/5491/ex-blc-341/Fluid_XP_Vortex_XP_Liquid_Cooling_Universal_CPU_Block_FXPVOR2.html?tl=g30c85s141
phreejak
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It is the same but you can get the Fuzion somewhere else for much cheaper than what they are selling it there for.
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/fuexpecpubl.html
However, if you are going to get the Fuzion (and have a quad proc) than you should get the nozzle kit for the waterblock. It is designed to enhance the cooling capabilities of the block for quad procs.
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/fuexpecpubl.html
However, if you are going to get the Fuzion (and have a quad proc) than you should get the nozzle kit for the waterblock. It is designed to enhance the cooling capabilities of the block for quad procs.
dear all,
my parts arrived and i can say that everything looks pro, but had some hassle figuring out some things so here we go again
Parts ordered
Swiftech MCP655
Vortex XP Cpu water block
Innovatek Dual RADI
RAD BOX
XSPC Passive 150mm Reservior
Swiftech MCP655
Everything fine, dismatled to check how it works etc... saw a big silicone oring, do you recommend greasing it with some baby oil to make sure its 100% tight seal.
Vortex XP Cpu water block
Nice peace of water block very nice finish, i also noticed a piece of perspex inside the in nozzle with 7 holes like an accelerator nozzle of some sort, anyone noticed before as i will be replacing it with the accelerator nozzle for FuZion
Innovatek Dual RADI
Nice RAD but a pain in the !@# to mount fans as the holes arent threaded so i ended up sticking nuts from the underneath using instant gasget as their is no access.
RAD BOX
no prob and nice instructions
XSPC Passive 150mm Reservior
Very nice and good value for money, but machining finish could have been better especially where the threads go.
So i will be installing these into a CM Stacker 830
Setup i would like to have Radiotor mounted on the rear with the rad box, XSPC Passive reservior also on the outside to keep it cool but where would you recommend mounting it.
Also due that i have the XSPC passive reservior shall i run this configuration
Reservior - CPU water block - Pump - RAD
Or it is not recommened passing hot water from the pump ?
Thanks for looking
Ramon
my parts arrived and i can say that everything looks pro, but had some hassle figuring out some things so here we go again
Parts ordered
Swiftech MCP655
Vortex XP Cpu water block
Innovatek Dual RADI
RAD BOX
XSPC Passive 150mm Reservior
Swiftech MCP655
Everything fine, dismatled to check how it works etc... saw a big silicone oring, do you recommend greasing it with some baby oil to make sure its 100% tight seal.
Vortex XP Cpu water block
Nice peace of water block very nice finish, i also noticed a piece of perspex inside the in nozzle with 7 holes like an accelerator nozzle of some sort, anyone noticed before as i will be replacing it with the accelerator nozzle for FuZion
Innovatek Dual RADI
Nice RAD but a pain in the !@# to mount fans as the holes arent threaded so i ended up sticking nuts from the underneath using instant gasget as their is no access.
RAD BOX
no prob and nice instructions
XSPC Passive 150mm Reservior
Very nice and good value for money, but machining finish could have been better especially where the threads go.
So i will be installing these into a CM Stacker 830
Setup i would like to have Radiotor mounted on the rear with the rad box, XSPC Passive reservior also on the outside to keep it cool but where would you recommend mounting it.
Also due that i have the XSPC passive reservior shall i run this configuration
Reservior - CPU water block - Pump - RAD
Or it is not recommened passing hot water from the pump ?
Thanks for looking
Ramon
phreejak
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As a rule of the thumb, always have the CPU waterblock as the first point of contact for the coolant as it first leaves the pump. The reason for this is that the CPU waterblock will get the benefit of the best possible flow characteristics from the pump - having a rad immediately after a pump is going to affect the flowrate for the rest of the cooling loop. In watercooling, the one single component that is responsible for the greatest drop in flowrate is always going to be the rad - because of a combination of the fittings and the many bends and turns inherent in a rads structure.
Secondly, pumps have minimal "pulling" power (they generate flow from "pushing" liquids) and are, thus, unable to feed themselves - they have to rely on gravity for that initial contact with coolant to prime it (after which they sustain flowrate through a loop by their "pushing" power). The pump must always come AFTER the reservoir. Further, the pumps should be below the level of your reservoir to aid in the gravity feeding of the coolant. There is just no way for the pump to be primed in the setup you've given.
Ideally, your loop would be better off:
Reservoir - pump - CPU waterblock - rad - back to reservoir
Secondly, pumps have minimal "pulling" power (they generate flow from "pushing" liquids) and are, thus, unable to feed themselves - they have to rely on gravity for that initial contact with coolant to prime it (after which they sustain flowrate through a loop by their "pushing" power). The pump must always come AFTER the reservoir. Further, the pumps should be below the level of your reservoir to aid in the gravity feeding of the coolant. There is just no way for the pump to be primed in the setup you've given.
Ideally, your loop would be better off:
Reservoir - pump - CPU waterblock - rad - back to reservoir
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