best way to gain a champion?

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

Wasted far too many hours on this game. But I've finally come upon a way to
enjoy it aside from it's faults [IMO]. I was playing as Germans this last
game when I was given a 'champion' by the game after so much combat, and was
able to create armies. This led me down a whole new different strategic
pathway. I had never played under Communism before for instance. Even with
armies however, I find it nearly impossible to capture enemy cities. The
'world' AI simply makes alliances and gangs up on you, so whatever advantage
you might have against single civilizations, it is nearly impossible to win
with conquest.

And then there's always that terrible tendency of the game to simply cheat.
I'm still playing though.

1. How may one ensure gaining a champion that I'm allowed to build armies
and pursue world conquest? I had been playing this game since it's
inception and this was the first time I had ever gained a champion (by
accident), though I had read of it.

2. Under Communism, I quickly fell behind in production, and thusly 'tech'
development. This did me in eventually. Any advice upon how to compete in
production while pursuing conquest? Under Republic and Democracy of course,
you'll have the entire countryside in revolt if you stay at war for long.

3. I've never attempted higher than 'warlord'. I am playing the same game,
right? The box says, 'Civilization III'. I play until it's no longer fun,
then retire. I rarely make it into the modern age. I read of others here
actually making a 'game' of Civ3, so any other advice would be appreciated,
though as much as I've played since I, II, and now III I sort of doubt
it...but well, perhaps there's somthing I've overlooked?

4. Koreans? Dutch? Incas?...Like I said, do I have the right game? None of
those civs in my version.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

"tooly" <rdh11@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:TIgvc.5441$Ua7.1312@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
> Wasted far too many hours on this game. But I've finally come upon a way
to
> enjoy it aside from it's faults [IMO]. I was playing as Germans this last
> game when I was given a 'champion' by the game after so much combat, and
was
> able to create armies. This led me down a whole new different strategic
> pathway. I had never played under Communism before for instance. Even
with
> armies however, I find it nearly impossible to capture enemy cities. The
> 'world' AI simply makes alliances and gangs up on you, so whatever
advantage
> you might have against single civilizations, it is nearly impossible to
win
> with conquest.

The trick is diplomacy. Get the alliances first. You also need to understand
defensive bonuses so you can plan your attacks more intelligently. They are
listed in the civilopedia.

> And then there's always that terrible tendency of the game to simply
cheat.

There are very few 'cheats' until monarch level where the AI gets production
bonuses.

> I'm still playing though.

Good to hear it

> 1. How may one ensure gaining a champion that I'm allowed to build armies
> and pursue world conquest? I had been playing this game since it's
> inception and this was the first time I had ever gained a champion (by
> accident), though I had read of it.

They are called Great Leaders. If an elite unit wins a battle, it has a 1/16
chance of producing one. After you get your first leader, create an army,
and kill something with the army, you can build the Heroic Epic which
increases the chances to 1/12. That elite unit can no longer produce a
leader unless it is upgraded and promoted to elite again.


> 2. Under Communism, I quickly fell behind in production, and thusly 'tech'
> development. This did me in eventually. Any advice upon how to compete
in
> production while pursuing conquest? Under Republic and Democracy of
course,
> you'll have the entire countryside in revolt if you stay at war for long.

It depends on which version of the game you have. Assuming vanilla Civ3 1.29
or PTW.
For most purposes, monarchy is good for warmongering. Communism is good
until you get too many cities. Make sure you have built the Forbidden
palace. Republic is good if you have a well located FP and lots of luxuries.
It also helps to understand how war weariness works.


> 3. I've never attempted higher than 'warlord'. I am playing the same
game,
> right? The box says, 'Civilization III'. I play until it's no longer
fun,
> then retire. I rarely make it into the modern age. I read of others here
> actually making a 'game' of Civ3, so any other advice would be
appreciated,
> though as much as I've played since I, II, and now III I sort of doubt
> it...but well, perhaps there's somthing I've overlooked?

It all depends on your definition of 'fun'


> 4. Koreans? Dutch? Incas?...Like I said, do I have the right game? None
of
> those civs in my version.

There are 2 expansion packs for Civ3. Play the World (PTW) and Conquests
(C3C).
Civ3 (vanilla) is what you have. Make sure you have version 1.29f. It is
displayed in the lower left corner of the main menu screen.
PTW adds a little better user interface and some more civs, along with some
bug fixes and is multiplayer.
C3C changed the way corruption works and adds even more civs, 2 new civ
traits, and some nice developer created scenerios called 'conquests'. Thus
the name of the expansion pack.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

"The Stare" <wat1@not.likely.frontiernet.net> wrote in message
news:Idhvc.4597$TQ4.2711@news02.roc.ny...
>
> "tooly" <rdh11@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:TIgvc.5441$Ua7.1312@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
> > Wasted far too many hours on this game. But I've finally come upon a
way
> to
> > enjoy it aside from it's faults [IMO]. I was playing as Germans this
last
> > game when I was given a 'champion' by the game after so much combat, and
> was
> > able to create armies. This led me down a whole new different strategic
> > pathway. I had never played under Communism before for instance. Even
> with
> > armies however, I find it nearly impossible to capture enemy cities.
The
> > 'world' AI simply makes alliances and gangs up on you, so whatever
> advantage
> > you might have against single civilizations, it is nearly impossible to
> win
> > with conquest.
>
> The trick is diplomacy. Get the alliances first. You also need to
understand
> defensive bonuses so you can plan your attacks more intelligently. They
are
> listed in the civilopedia.
>
> > And then there's always that terrible tendency of the game to simply
> cheat.
>
> There are very few 'cheats' until monarch level where the AI gets
production
> bonuses.
>
> > I'm still playing though.
>
> Good to hear it
>
> > 1. How may one ensure gaining a champion that I'm allowed to build
armies
> > and pursue world conquest? I had been playing this game since it's
> > inception and this was the first time I had ever gained a champion (by
> > accident), though I had read of it.
>
> They are called Great Leaders. If an elite unit wins a battle, it has a
1/16
> chance of producing one. After you get your first leader, create an army,
> and kill something with the army, you can build the Heroic Epic which
> increases the chances to 1/12. That elite unit can no longer produce a
> leader unless it is upgraded and promoted to elite again.
>
>
> > 2. Under Communism, I quickly fell behind in production, and thusly
'tech'
> > development. This did me in eventually. Any advice upon how to compete
> in
> > production while pursuing conquest? Under Republic and Democracy of
> course,
> > you'll have the entire countryside in revolt if you stay at war for
long.
>
> It depends on which version of the game you have. Assuming vanilla Civ3
1.29
> or PTW.
> For most purposes, monarchy is good for warmongering. Communism is good
> until you get too many cities. Make sure you have built the Forbidden
> palace. Republic is good if you have a well located FP and lots of
luxuries.
> It also helps to understand how war weariness works.
>
>
> > 3. I've never attempted higher than 'warlord'. I am playing the same
> game,
> > right? The box says, 'Civilization III'. I play until it's no longer
> fun,
> > then retire. I rarely make it into the modern age. I read of others
here
> > actually making a 'game' of Civ3, so any other advice would be
> appreciated,
> > though as much as I've played since I, II, and now III I sort of doubt
> > it...but well, perhaps there's somthing I've overlooked?
>
> It all depends on your definition of 'fun'
>
>
> > 4. Koreans? Dutch? Incas?...Like I said, do I have the right game?
None
> of
> > those civs in my version.
>
> There are 2 expansion packs for Civ3. Play the World (PTW) and Conquests
> (C3C).
> Civ3 (vanilla) is what you have. Make sure you have version 1.29f. It is
> displayed in the lower left corner of the main menu screen.
> PTW adds a little better user interface and some more civs, along with
some
> bug fixes and is multiplayer.
> C3C changed the way corruption works and adds even more civs, 2 new civ
> traits, and some nice developer created scenerios called 'conquests'. Thus
> the name of the expansion pack.
>

Thanks for taking the time to respond here.
1/16 chance for a leader huh...only with elite units, after a 'win'. NO
wonder I had
never seen a Great Leader before. So, I have to invest hours upon hours
with bogus
starts before I get to have the kind of game that gives me a little
enjoyment [army building etc].

As far as cheats, How would a competitor civ obtain an army early in the
game when NO ONE
has been at war yet? Zulu's just pulled an 'army' out of their hat in
latest game I played (loaded with
Impi units; that early in the game].

Game always knows which of my cities are least protected for example. If I
can't get a dozen tanks
protecting each and every city, woe betide that small continent over in the
corner of my world that
only has pikemen as of yet. That's where the 'attacks' will be. Cheat,
cheat, cheat. Unless there's
a 'psychic unit' I'm not aware of [The Great Kreskin or Carnaq unit?].
Or how about being 'blamed' for double crossing AI civ leaders when I hadn't
done a damn thing; that's happens a lot?

Yet, this is so so close to being a great game; I enjoy it right up until
the AI decides to show off. Usually after many hours of invested time on my
part. Like I said, I just retire and start over, and over and over and
over...

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

In article <TIgvc.5441$Ua7.1312@bignews2.bellsouth.net>, "tooly" <rdh11@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>Wasted far too many hours on this game. But I've finally come upon a way to
>enjoy it aside from it's faults [IMO]. I was playing as Germans this last
>game when I was given a 'champion' by the game after so much combat, and was
>able to create armies. This led me down a whole new different strategic
>pathway. I had never played under Communism before for instance. Even with
>armies however, I find it nearly impossible to capture enemy cities. The
>'world' AI simply makes alliances and gangs up on you, so whatever advantage
>you might have against single civilizations, it is nearly impossible to win
>with conquest.

This is called "being dog piled." All the others are ganging up on you. The
way to avoid this is to use the F4 Diplomacy screen to get the others to come
in on your side early in the war. You may have to pay your new allies gold or
techs to get them to join your alliance.

With the various AI's fighting each other it is certainly possible to conquer
two thirds of the map and get a domination victory.


>And then there's always that terrible tendency of the game to simply cheat.
>I'm still playing though.

The rules the AI plays under are not exactly the same as the rules the human
plays under.


>1. How may one ensure gaining a champion that I'm allowed to build armies
>and pursue world conquest? I had been playing this game since it's
>inception and this was the first time I had ever gained a champion (by
>accident), though I had read of it.

You can't ensure that you get one but you can increase your chances. Great
Leaders (what you are calling champions) are randomly created when an Elite
ground unit kills another civ's (not barbarian) ground unit. There is a small
chance that such a victory will create a Great Leader.

Build Barracks (or Sun Tzu's Art of War) so all your ground units start as
Veterans, not Regulars. When you attack with a stack of units you want to
bombard first, then attack with your Veteran units. You only want to use you
Elite units against wounded units, if possible. This ensures the maximum
number of Elite victories. You want ot use fast movers (Horsemen, Knights,
Cavalry, Tanks, or Modern Armor) as your attack units since they may stop
attacking and survive if they are losing.

Victorious Armies do not create Great Leaders.


>2. Under Communism, I quickly fell behind in production, and thusly 'tech'
>development. This did me in eventually. Any advice upon how to compete in
>production while pursuing conquest? Under Republic and Democracy of course,
>you'll have the entire countryside in revolt if you stay at war for long.

The corruption and waste model is very different under Communism. Under
Communism you no longer have a productive core, instead all cities are equally
corrupt.

Build the Forbidden Palace. Once you have Espionage build the Secret Police
Headquarters (new with Conquests). Build Courthouses in every city. After
you have built the Courthouses build Police Stations in every city. These
steps will minimize the effects of corruption and waste. You can rush
production in your newly captured cities to get key buildings finished
quickly.

You can keep a war going under Republic and Democracy if you can generate
enough happiness. Some Wonders create happy faces in each city (JS Bach's
Cathedral and Cure for Cancer), others amplify the effects of happiness
buildings (Oracle and Sistine Chapel). Universal Suffrage directly reduces
the effects of war weariness. I find that having Marketplaces in every city
is vital. Marketplaces increase the happiness effects of Luxuries. You also
want Temples, Cathedrals, and maybe Coliseums. You can also increase
happiness with the luxury slider on the F1 screen. This will eventually slow
down your research but it can give you more time to complete a war.


>3. I've never attempted higher than 'warlord'. I am playing the same game,
>right? The box says, 'Civilization III'. I play until it's no longer fun,
>then retire. I rarely make it into the modern age. I read of others here
>actually making a 'game' of Civ3, so any other advice would be appreciated,
>though as much as I've played since I, II, and now III I sort of doubt
>it...but well, perhaps there's somthing I've overlooked?

Try to get a Starship victory at least once. There is a nifty video if you
make it.

The way to get into the Modern Times is to trade your techs with all the other
empires for anything they have got, like other techs, gold, or Luxuries. What
you want is to get is massive amounts of gold per turn so you can set _your_
research at the highest possible rate (F1 screen, above the Luxury slider).

At higher levels the computer will research faster so the over all rate of
tech research is faster.


>4. Koreans? Dutch? Incas?...Like I said, do I have the right game? None of
>those civs in my version.

These are new with Conquests which is a Civ 3 expansion.


Mike G

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

"Mike Garcia" <mtg@cornellc.cit.stumbling.block.cornell.edu> wrote in
message news:c9ks6k$2kh$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu...
> In article <TIgvc.5441$Ua7.1312@bignews2.bellsouth.net>, "tooly"
<rdh11@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >Wasted far too many hours on this game. But I've finally come upon a way
to
> >enjoy it aside from it's faults [IMO]. I was playing as Germans this
last
> >game when I was given a 'champion' by the game after so much combat, and
was
> >able to create armies. This led me down a whole new different strategic
> >pathway. I had never played under Communism before for instance. Even
with
> >armies however, I find it nearly impossible to capture enemy cities.
The
> >'world' AI simply makes alliances and gangs up on you, so whatever
advantage
> >you might have against single civilizations, it is nearly impossible to
win
> >with conquest.
>
> This is called "being dog piled." All the others are ganging up on you.
The
> way to avoid this is to use the F4 Diplomacy screen to get the others to
come
> in on your side early in the war. You may have to pay your new allies
gold or
> techs to get them to join your alliance.
>
> With the various AI's fighting each other it is certainly possible to
conquer
> two thirds of the map and get a domination victory.
>
>
> >And then there's always that terrible tendency of the game to simply
cheat.
> >I'm still playing though.
>
> The rules the AI plays under are not exactly the same as the rules the
human
> plays under.
>
>
> >1. How may one ensure gaining a champion that I'm allowed to build armies
> >and pursue world conquest? I had been playing this game since it's
> >inception and this was the first time I had ever gained a champion (by
> >accident), though I had read of it.
>
> You can't ensure that you get one but you can increase your chances.
Great
> Leaders (what you are calling champions) are randomly created when an
Elite
> ground unit kills another civ's (not barbarian) ground unit. There is a s
mall
> chance that such a victory will create a Great Leader.
>
> Build Barracks (or Sun Tzu's Art of War) so all your ground units start as
> Veterans, not Regulars. When you attack with a stack of units you want to
> bombard first, then attack with your Veteran units. You only want to use
you
> Elite units against wounded units, if possible. This ensures the maximum
> number of Elite victories. You want ot use fast movers (Horsemen,
Knights,
> Cavalry, Tanks, or Modern Armor) as your attack units since they may stop
> attacking and survive if they are losing.
>
> Victorious Armies do not create Great Leaders.
>
>
> >2. Under Communism, I quickly fell behind in production, and thusly
'tech'
> >development. This did me in eventually. Any advice upon how to compete
in
> >production while pursuing conquest? Under Republic and Democracy of
course,
> >you'll have the entire countryside in revolt if you stay at war for long.
>
> The corruption and waste model is very different under Communism. Under
> Communism you no longer have a productive core, instead all cities are
equally
> corrupt.
>
> Build the Forbidden Palace. Once you have Espionage build the Secret
Police
> Headquarters (new with Conquests). Build Courthouses in every city.
After
> you have built the Courthouses build Police Stations in every city. These
> steps will minimize the effects of corruption and waste. You can rush
> production in your newly captured cities to get key buildings finished
> quickly.
>
> You can keep a war going under Republic and Democracy if you can generate
> enough happiness. Some Wonders create happy faces in each city (JS Bach's
> Cathedral and Cure for Cancer), others amplify the effects of happiness
> buildings (Oracle and Sistine Chapel). Universal Suffrage directly
reduces
> the effects of war weariness. I find that having Marketplaces in every
city
> is vital. Marketplaces increase the happiness effects of Luxuries. You
also
> want Temples, Cathedrals, and maybe Coliseums. You can also increase
> happiness with the luxury slider on the F1 screen. This will eventually
slow
> down your research but it can give you more time to complete a war.
>
>
> >3. I've never attempted higher than 'warlord'. I am playing the same
game,
> >right? The box says, 'Civilization III'. I play until it's no longer
fun,
> >then retire. I rarely make it into the modern age. I read of others
here
> >actually making a 'game' of Civ3, so any other advice would be
appreciated,
> >though as much as I've played since I, II, and now III I sort of doubt
> >it...but well, perhaps there's somthing I've overlooked?
>
> Try to get a Starship victory at least once. There is a nifty video if
you
> make it.
>
> The way to get into the Modern Times is to trade your techs with all the
other
> empires for anything they have got, like other techs, gold, or Luxuries.
What
> you want is to get is massive amounts of gold per turn so you can set
_your_
> research at the highest possible rate (F1 screen, above the Luxury
slider).
>
> At higher levels the computer will research faster so the over all rate of
> tech research is faster.
>
>
> >4. Koreans? Dutch? Incas?...Like I said, do I have the right game? None
of
> >those civs in my version.
>
> These are new with Conquests which is a Civ 3 expansion.
>
>
> Mike G

Yea, I saw that Communism is not all that great for production. Best to
wage war under Republic or even Democracy, but only after lots of 'happy
face' influences as you mention. I actually did win once...several months
ago ( I had forgotten) and got to see the starship launch. With I and II, I
always considered 'warlord' as 'learning mode'...but I can't seem to get a
handle on Civ3; always get my butt kicked [except for the one time as
mentioned]. Nowadays, I select 'archeplego' so I might be left alone for a
time at the start of the game so I can 'develop' cities some; grow etc.
Otherwise, surrounding civs will block me off post haste, leaving me
'stunted' for the entire game [since conquest is not a real option in Civ3,
except as I have now found if one can build armies]. Sometimes I can knock
off a weak civ right at the very beginning, but then my 'economic
production' falls so far behind that I fall way behind by the renaissance
era. I still mindlessly play on though..not sure why; the game sort of
mesmerizes you or something I think, hehe. Besides, outside the door in the
'real' world, I hear they are cutting people's heads off or something.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

"tooly" <rdh11@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:hAmvc.5592$2M1.317@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
>

<snippage>

>
> Thanks for taking the time to respond here.
> 1/16 chance for a leader huh...only with elite units, after a 'win'. NO
> wonder I had
> never seen a Great Leader before. So, I have to invest hours upon hours
> with bogus
> starts before I get to have the kind of game that gives me a little
> enjoyment [army building etc].
>
> As far as cheats, How would a competitor civ obtain an army early in the
> game when NO ONE
> has been at war yet? Zulu's just pulled an 'army' out of their hat in
> latest game I played (loaded with
> Impi units; that early in the game].

They have to have been at war to have an army. They may have been at war
with someone you hadn't met yet. You also need an embassy to see if they are
at war with someone you do know.


> Game always knows which of my cities are least protected for example. If
I
> can't get a dozen tanks
> protecting each and every city, woe betide that small continent over in
the
> corner of my world that
> only has pikemen as of yet. That's where the 'attacks' will be. Cheat,
> cheat, cheat. Unless there's
> a 'psychic unit' I'm not aware of [The Great Kreskin or Carnaq unit?].
> Or how about being 'blamed' for double crossing AI civ leaders when I
hadn't
> done a damn thing; that's happens a lot?

The AI knows the whole map including where all units and resources (future
included) are. This can be used to your advantage once you learn to
manipulate the AI.

Broken deals happen all the time. Folks are always bitching about it.
Anytime a trade route is disrupted, the human takes the blame. You need to
be very very careful about who you trade with and when. For example, an
early, coastal only route between harbors can be disrupted by the presence
of a barbarian gally.


> Yet, this is so so close to being a great game; I enjoy it right up until
> the AI decides to show off. Usually after many hours of invested time on
my
> part. Like I said, I just retire and start over, and over and over and
> over...

Check out the War Academy at www.civfanatics.com
There is a wealth of information there and the more you learn about the
mechanics of the game, the more you will enjoy it.
Folks here are also willing to answer questions.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

"tooly" <rdh11@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:NTmvc.12891$Sk.166@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
>

<snippage>

>
> Yea, I saw that Communism is not all that great for production. Best to
> wage war under Republic or even Democracy, but only after lots of 'happy
> face' influences as you mention.

Democracy isn't good for war unless you can keep it a very short war. If war
weariness gets too high you can find yourself in anarchy when you least want
it. A republic won't revolt, you just need to spend more on entertainment
when WW gets to high.


I actually did win once...several months
> ago ( I had forgotten) and got to see the starship launch. With I and II,
I
> always considered 'warlord' as 'learning mode'...but I can't seem to get a
> handle on Civ3; always get my butt kicked [except for the one time as
> mentioned].

For civ3, chieftain level is the learning mode. You may be past that however
if you have been playing warlord anyway. Chieftain gets a 100% production
and science bonus over the AI. Warlord = 20%. A pretty big jump. Regent is
even up with the AI.


Nowadays, I select 'archeplego' so I might be left alone for a
> time at the start of the game so I can 'develop' cities some; grow etc.
> Otherwise, surrounding civs will block me off post haste, leaving me
> 'stunted' for the entire game [since conquest is not a real option in
Civ3,
> except as I have now found if one can build armies].

You don't mention the map size, %water, # rivals, etc. Basically though,
you need to do nothing but build settler/unit combo for the landgrab phase.
If you try to build infrastructure too soon, you lose out on territory and
will trail the rest of the game. As the domestic advisor says... Build more
cities!!!


Sometimes I can knock
> off a weak civ right at the very beginning, but then my 'economic
> production' falls so far behind that I fall way behind by the renaissance
> era.

This happens because you stop building settlers and build combat units.
Early wars can be tricky this way.
You might also consider doing little research in the ancient age and
buying/trading/selling techs to keep up and then start researching when you
get to the middle ages. With expansionist civs in the game getting techs
from goody huts, ancient age techs can go fast. The more civs that know a
tech, the cheaper it is to buy outright. They start getting really expensive
in the middle ages however.


I still mindlessly play on though..not sure why; the game sort of
> mesmerizes you or something I think, hehe. Besides, outside the door in
the
> 'real' world, I hear they are cutting people's heads off or something.

I heard that too but have been too busy civving to pay much attn. Civ is
better than drugs.

 

[daran]

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 05:13:58 -0400 tooly <rdh11@bellsouth.net> wrote in
message <TIgvc.5441$Ua7.1312@bignews2.bellsouth.net>...

> Wasted far too many hours on this game. But I've finally come upon a way
> to enjoy it aside from it's faults [IMO]...

All games have their faults, especially those as complex as the Civ series.
That's what keeps us buying the next version.

> ...I was playing as Germans this last game when I was given a 'champion'
> by the game after so much combat, and was able to create armies. This led
> me down a whole new different strategic pathway. I had never played under
> Communism before for instance. Even with armies however, I find it nearly
> impossible to capture enemy cities. The 'world' AI simply makes alliances
> and gangs up on you, so whatever advantage you might have against single
> civilizations, it is nearly impossible to win with conquest.

Do you understand the strengths and weaknesses of the different types of
units? Some are better for attack, others in defense.

To capture a city, you must attack with overwhelming force. I rarely attack
even a small city with less than half a dozen units. A large one might
require twenty or more. After each attack, heal your damaged units and
replace your losses, then move on to the next attack. I prefer to use
mobile units to attack. They are more expensive, but your losses will be
lower, so they are cheaper in the long run.

AI civs are usually quite well armed at the start of any war, unless they've
been fighting someone else. It's often better to adopt a defensive posture
to start with, and let them come at you. I am usually able to eliminate
vast numbers of enemy attackers with minimal loses to myself, often lower
than my replacement rate. When the attack drops off, I know that they are
exhausted, and I can then counter-attack.

If two (or more) civs have been at war for an extended period of time, quite
both sides are exhausted. A surprise attack on one of them can be
devastating.

Explorers make great sabateurs. They can march up to five squares into
enemy territory, then pillage - great for knocking out his strategic
resources at the start of the war. They'll killed the next turn, but so
what? They're cheap.

> And then there's always that terrible tendency of the game to simply
> cheat. I'm still playing though.

You can 'cheat' too, by applying strategies that the AI's don't understand.

> 1. How may one ensure gaining a champion that I'm allowed to build armies
> and pursue world conquest? I had been playing this game since it's
> inception and this was the first time I had ever gained a champion (by
> accident), though I had read of it.

Make sure any city you're using to build units has barracks. Each time the
the veteran troops it produces win a battle, they have a chance of becoming
elite. Each time your elite units win, they have a chance of producing a
Great Leader. You maximise your chance of this by using your elites against
relatively weak units, while cutting your veteran's teeth on the tougher
targets.

> 2. Under Communism, I quickly fell behind in production, and thusly 'tech'
> development. This did me in eventually. Any advice upon how to compete
> in production while pursuing conquest? Under Republic and Democracy of
> course, you'll have the entire countryside in revolt if you stay at war
> for long.

I've never had a problem fighting in Democracy - to keep them happy, make
sure you have the happiness improvements, luxuries, market places (which
increase the value of your luxuries). As a last resort, raise your luxury
rate.

> 3. I've never attempted higher than 'warlord'. I am playing the same
> game, right? The box says, 'Civilization III'. I play until it's no
> longer fun, then retire. I rarely make it into the modern age. I read of
> others here actually making a 'game' of Civ3, so any other advice would be
> appreciated, though as much as I've played since I, II, and now III I sort
> of doubt it...but well, perhaps there's somthing I've overlooked?

It's a very different game. For example, in earlier versions stacks of
units were vulnerable - the entire stack would be taken out if the strongest
defender was beaten. In civ3 this is not the case. Your strategies need to
change correspondingly.

> 4. Koreans? Dutch? Incas?...Like I said, do I have the right game? None
> of those civs in my version.

The Koreans were added in the 'Play the World' extension. The Dutch and the
Incas in 'Conquests'.

--
Daran

We found another: 2^24036583-1 is prime <http://www.mersenne.org>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

In article <NTmvc.12891$Sk.166@bignews4.bellsouth.net>, "tooly" <rdh11@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>Yea, I saw that Communism is not all that great for production. Best to
>wage war under Republic or even Democracy, but only after lots of 'happy
>face' influences as you mention.

???

Communism is less productive than Republic or Democracy _but_ it is also less
expensive in some ways. For example you can support a very large army for no
cost if you have many cities. Another example is that ground units stationed
in a city make happiness. Given a choice (say with a Religious Civ) I'd
rather wage war under Communism than either Republic or Democracy.


>I actually did win once...several months
>ago ( I had forgotten) and got to see the starship launch. With I and II, I
>always considered 'warlord' as 'learning mode'...but I can't seem to get a
>handle on Civ3; always get my butt kicked [except for the one time as
>mentioned]. Nowadays, I select 'archeplego' so I might be left alone for a
>time at the start of the game so I can 'develop' cities some; grow etc.

A Starship win at the Warlord level is unusual.


>Otherwise, surrounding civs will block me off post haste, leaving me
>'stunted' for the entire game [since conquest is not a real option in Civ3,
>except as I have now found if one can build armies].

Wars, especially at the Warlord level, are very possible. Grow your military
(build Barracks first), building both offensive and defensive units, until
your military advisor (use the F3 screen) says "compared to these guys we have
a strong military" and then go kick some butt. On the first turn of the war
use the F4 screen to get some allies. Aim a stack (say 8 attackers and 3
defenders all moving together) at the nearest enemy city. After it is
captured, rebuild your stack and take the next one.

An Army is a fun toy but you don't need one to win.


>Sometimes I can knock off a weak civ right at the very beginning, ...

You can shear a sheep several times but you can kill it only once.

Capture a city or two then make peace for all their gold and available techs.
Then redeploy your units and declare war on another neighbor. You want to
bleed your neighbors until they have nothing left to give you before you
conquer their last city and eliminate them.


>... but then my 'economic production' falls so far behind that I fall way
>behind by the renaissance era.

Are you building workers? Say one per city. Every tile should have a road on
it and either be mined or irrigated. Do you have Harbors? How about
Marketplaces? Are you building the Forbidden Palace?

It is common to be behind the AI on techs, sometimes way behind. The human
really can't get out in front and stay there through the entire game. You
always fall behind at the beginning.

Trade with the AI. Every few turns check with each Civ on the F4 screen and
see what technology they have that you don't. Only trade on your turn. Ask
what they want for it. Check to see what technology, Resources, and Luxuries
you have that other Civs don't have. Ask what they will pay for it.

All it takes is one key tech and you can catch up. For example you could
trade Gunpowder to one civ for Theology. Then trade Gunpowder to another for
Education. The Gunpowder to a third for Astronomy. Then Astronomy (which you
just got) to the first for Banking. This example is not far fetched.

Look for weaknesses. Does one of you neighbors lack Iron? If so they can't
build Pikemen, Medieval Infantry, or Knights. If so, its butt kicking time.
After a few cities, you get their gold and their techs.


Mike G

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 05:13:58 -0400, "tooly" <rdh11@bellsouth.net>
wrote:

>Wasted far too many hours on this game. But I've finally come upon a way to
>enjoy it aside from it's faults [IMO]. I was playing as Germans this last
>game when I was given a 'champion' by the game after so much combat, and was
>able to create armies. This led me down a whole new different strategic
>pathway. I had never played under Communism before for instance. Even with
>armies however, I find it nearly impossible to capture enemy cities. The
>'world' AI simply makes alliances and gangs up on you, so whatever advantage
>you might have against single civilizations, it is nearly impossible to win
>with conquest.

Lumping together a few things -- city capture requires you to have
enough forces to overwhelm the city defenders. Once you can assemble
a large enough force to do that, taking cities isn't all too hard.
Having a tech advantage helps, having that tech be a powerful attack
unit (knight, cavalry, tank, modern armor) for its era makes it even
easier.

But numbers still matter. Against a very tough city, expect to use
at least twice the number of defenders. Artillery (any bombardment
unit) can help by weakening the defenses first.

The AI "dogpile" alliances work against the AI too. When I go to
war, I try to bribe everyone I can to be my ally. The AI is "smart"
enough to do this too, and it is only fair. To beat it, you must make
your own alliances. You will need to have something to pay for them,
but a good military alliance is worth a steep price -- how much is it
worth to not only have a safe flank, but another front and extra
forces involved in the war?

>And then there's always that terrible tendency of the game to simply cheat.
>I'm still playing though.
>
>1. How may one ensure gaining a champion that I'm allowed to build armies
>and pursue world conquest? I had been playing this game since it's
>inception and this was the first time I had ever gained a champion (by
>accident), though I had read of it.

The Great Leaders can be hard to make. The best shot at it requires
you to have a *lot* of elite units, and fight lots of battles with
them, minimizing the losses of elite units. Do that, and you'll get
leaders.

A couple things help: always use barracks to make units veteran to
start, then look for fights to turn them elite. Barbarians are good
for that (Btw, you can't get a leader from a fight with a barbarian,
only with an AI Civ, so it is a good place to "train in combat").

Having lots of good, effective fast attackers helps -- horsemen,
knights, cavalry, etc. These can retreat from slower units, which
makes it more likely that they will survive to elite status, and
survive trying to get to be elite.

Try to use your elite units in "sure thing" fights. The goal is to
generate a leader, not just win the battle.

Militaristic civs get veteran and elite status faster, which gives
you more shots at leaders. Also, they get barracks at half cost (and
other military improvements). This speeds up the process.

I've got piles of leaders in some games, while in others, it was
very hard. The odds per battle are poor (1/16), but run the odds.
After 11 elite victories, you have even odds that you'll have a
leader. After 36, over 90% of the time you'll have a leader.

Which is why I say that it comes down to numbers, pure and simple.
You need lots of elite units in order to get enough chances to make
getting a leader likely. Once you have piles of elites -- a dozen or
so -- you can expect to see leaders pop up every half dozen turns or
less.

This gets better once you get a leader, make an army, win a fight
(make sure the first fight is a sure thing pushover, so you don't lose
your army too early). You can make the Heroic Epic, which improves
the odds of getting a leader.

>2. Under Communism, I quickly fell behind in production, and thusly 'tech'
>development. This did me in eventually. Any advice upon how to compete in
>production while pursuing conquest? Under Republic and Democracy of course,
>you'll have the entire countryside in revolt if you stay at war for long.

Communism is best if you have a large number of cities -- over 64 on
a normal size map. The more cities you have, the better it works,
because it is the government which will make *all* cities productive,
rather than just the core area.

Republic is less affected by war weariness than democracy, and it is
the next best choice for war, and the overall best when you don't know
whether you'll be at peace or not.

Everyone needs luxuries to cope with unhappiness. Try to get as
many as you can.

>3. I've never attempted higher than 'warlord'. I am playing the same game,
>right? The box says, 'Civilization III'. I play until it's no longer fun,
>then retire. I rarely make it into the modern age. I read of others here
>actually making a 'game' of Civ3, so any other advice would be appreciated,
>though as much as I've played since I, II, and now III I sort of doubt
>it...but well, perhaps there's somthing I've overlooked?

Chieftain and warlord levels are relatively easier (of course) --
the AI doesn't get production equal to the human.

Much depends on what you enjoy. At warlord level, with smart trades
with the AI, you should be able to approach the modern age by the
1800s, maybe even earlier (normal map/8 civs; bigger maps can let you
advance faster but the real-time spent playing is more -- more cities,
more units, etc.).

Civ3 end game isn't too different from Civ2, so if you played that
to the space race win, it shouldn't be much of a transition. The big
differences are if you go to war -- Civ3 makes it harder to sustain a
major offensive.

It sounds to me like you might have overlooked diplomacy. Civ3 is
driven by trade with the AI. Trade well, make allies, and the AI
changes from an enemy to a partner. Never a friend (some of the AI
personalities are almost psychotically untrustworthy), but at least an
ally of convenience and an essential business partner for your empire.

>4. Koreans? Dutch? Incas?...Like I said, do I have the right game? None of
>those civs in my version.

PTW and Conquests expansions added more civs, more options, lots of
things. Most people play PTW or Conquests, because they offer more
than the basic Civ3 game.

Also, don't play unpatched Civ3 (before v29f).
--
*-__Jeffery Jones__________| *Starfire* |____________________-*
** Muskego WI Access Channel 14/25 <http://www.execpc.com/~jeffsj/mach7/>
*Starfire Design Studio* <http://www.starfiredesign.com/>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

Jeffery S. Jones <jeffsj@execpc.com> wrote in
news:envsb0t91jbg8q5migm6fvvfl6j5cnd760@4ax.com:

[big snip]

> an essential business partner for your empire.

This is IMO the perfect description of a friendly AI nation in Civ3.


--
ICQ: 8105495
AIM: KeeperGFA
EMail: thekeeper@canada.com
"If we did the things we are capable of,
we would astound ourselves." - Edison